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BUFFETT ISN'T ALWAYS RIGHT. I'm betting he's wrong this time. I hope Buffett is right.

By
Real Estate Agent with Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate 303829;0225082372

BE WARY OF WHAT IS DEEMED TO BE GOOD NEWS.  Inspired by an interesting post by John Armstrong, Good News for the Long Term describing Warren Buffett's recent investment in businesses such as lumber yards, plumbing, windows, doors, furniture and other businesses centered around new construction.   

If Buffett is investing on the bet that new housing construction will rebound in the near future, I believe it will be his 4th biggest mistake after Conoco Phillips. U.S. Air and Dexter Shoes.

THE INVESTMENT GENIUSES ARE NOT "IN THE TRENCHES".  I am of the opinion that a rebound in housing is a lot farther away than the financial geniuses believe.  This housing industry depression is a lot deeper than they realize.  They're looking at the top of the industry.  I look at the American consumer, the injury to economic stability of many families (consumers) and I believe that it will be many years before American consumers are financially whole enough to sustain long term growth of housing. 

I WONDER IF MR. BUFFET CONSIDERED THE FOLLOWING:

  • How long after 6-12 months unemployment does it take to qualify for mortgage financing?
  • How long after a Short Sale before prospective home buyers can qualify for new mortgage financing?
  • How long after foreclosure before a prospective buyer can qualify for a new mortgage loan?
  • How long after depleting savings will it take to save the now generally higher down payments?
  • Are families ready to change their children's schools. . . again.
  • How much is owed by former Short Sale sellers to investors for deficiency judgments?
  • How much is owed to the IRS for taxes after a short sale or foreclosure?
  • How much is owed for Promissory Notes? 

FINALLY, HOW LONG WILL IT BE BEFORE THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WILL FEEL FINANCIALLY SECURE TO BELIEVE THAT IT IS SAFE TO RISK BUYING INTO THE REAL ESTATE MARKET??

So many questions.  So few answers.  I wonder if Warren Buffett has looked at the real estate industry from the perspective of a real estate broker who has witnessed the catastrophic effects of the mortgage mess on American families.

Courtesy, Lenn Harley, Broker, Homefinders.com, 800-711-7988.

                            Home buyers

"Honey, how long do you believe it will be before we can buy a home again".

"We have a long wait Dear.  My new job just started.  We have to pay off that promissory note.  We have to rebuild our credit and we have to save the down payment before we can buy.  I'm thinking we'll be ready to own our own home again in about 5 years."

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Comments(41)

William Johnson
Retired - La Jolla, CA
Retired

Hi Lenn, 

I certainly wouldn't presume to give WB any advise nor would I be deemed credible if I did. But I surely do know of what you speak. There are so many that are currently clinging by their finger nails and others whose nails have already been ripped off as they slipped from the point of their clinging. The damage and the long term healing that will painfully slow, manifests itself to some as opportunity and not the social change others so clearly see. Your points are so right on. 

Mar 23, 2010 06:47 PM
William Johnson
Retired - La Jolla, CA
Retired

Hi Lenn, 

I certainly wouldn't presume to give WB any advise nor would I be deemed credible if I did. But I surely do know of what you speak. There are so many that are currently clinging by their finger nails and others whose nails have already been ripped off as they slipped from the point of their clinging. The damage and the long term healing that will painfully slow, manifests itself to some as opportunity and not the social change others so clearly see. Your points are so right on. 

Mar 23, 2010 06:52 PM
Jim Hale
ACTIONAGENTS.NET - Eugene, OR
Eugene Oregon's Best Home Search Website

I never bet....at least not with money.

So I'm not "betting" that Lynn Harley (of Virginia/Maryland) is right ....as usual.

 

And I'm hoping that Warren Buffett is right ....cause I am betting my time, my talent, and everything I have.....that he is.

Mar 23, 2010 10:01 PM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Sheldon.  Buffet can take the loss if he's wrong.  There is the also possibility that Buffet has been sucked in by the positive reports coming from the NAR.  We NAR members understand that positives from the NAR are meant to increase membership and have nothing to do with the economy.

Judy.  Of course they would.  If only they could. 

Claude.  How long after the average American gets a job will it be before they can qualify for a mortgage loan.  18-24 months????  I suspect more like 60 months before the housing industry recovers to a point where new home construction will justify the kind of multifying factors on which Buffet is betting.

Wendy.  You bet they will.  I've already seen that.

Silvia.  BINGO!

Karen.  Neither can I.  Neither can I.

Daniel.  Thanks.  The timing of his purchases simply may mean that he believes that there is a bottom and wants to hedge.  If the construction industry stocks increase a small amount, he's going to make a lot of money.

Lora.  So do I.  Of course, we don't yet know why he's doing what he's doing.  At least he isn't shorting the construction industry stocks.

Tom.  Welcome to the graveyard.

Kay.  A Warren Buffet will always rebound.  An american family who has lost everything may not for 10 years.

Lisa.  Indeed.  And when the ship is sqamped, it never rebounds, which is the case with too many American families.

Patrick.  Thanks for the chuckle.  Actually, the builders must build or go out of business.  What will change is what and where they build.  Also, their margins will remain low for many years.  Of course, Buffet may still be right on his bets on the materials and not the builders.

Frank.  Agreed.  The bottom is here and can only go up so he's poised to gain from even a modest recovery. 

William.  Is it possible that WB "jumped the shark"?????  this time????? 

Jym Hale.  Thanks for the reblog.  I hope that I'm wrong this time.  I just don't see how the home buying population in this country is anywhere near to sustain the kind of sustained home buying that Buffet would need to profit from his investments in building materials.

Of course, materials is the only sector that will profit from a modest uptick in new construction.

Mar 23, 2010 10:37 PM
Jackie Connelly-Fornuff
Douglas Elliman Real Estate in Babylon NY - Babylon, NY
"Moving at The Speed of YOU!"

It's easy for people that have money to say things will get better sooner. Some parts of the country will recover sooner than others. It's going to be a few years yet before our nation is better as a whole. The job market itself has to improve and salaries have to rise and unemployment has to go way down. We are not there yet! Doesn't Buffet know how many people are unemployed that weren't unemployed 5 years ago?

Mar 23, 2010 10:52 PM
FN LN
Toronto, ON

Lenn - Warren has internal economic data on housing related issues from some of Berkshire's long-term investments in subsidiaries including Clayton Homes (modular homes and manufactured homes), Home Services of America (second largest full-service independent residental real estate brokerage firm in USA and largest brokerage owned settlement services in USA), several furniture companies, Benjamin Moore (paint), several insurance companies, Shaw (carpets) and a lot more.  I've just listed some companies and industries related directly to housing.  Of course, Berkshire has many investments in other industries that are affected by consumer spending.

Warren looks at the long term for investing, so a couple of years (or even longer) won't worry him.  He'll buy cheaper and still be able to use cash generated by the companies in his other activities.

Mar 23, 2010 10:56 PM
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

Making investments in some housing related stocks doesn't mean the Warren Buffett is saying the Industry is ready for a rebound.  All it means is that those stocks are currently very undervalued and he feels that the stock prices may rise in the coming months.  Nothing more, nothing less!

Mar 23, 2010 11:34 PM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Jackie.  Somehow I doubt that Mr. Buffett things seriously about how long many have been unemployed.  The reason I think about it is because of the time that it will take that person to recover his credit and savings to be able to buy real estate.  I doubt that is one of the bits of info Mr. Buffets thinks about.

Marc.  You're correct, of course.  My message is that he could miscalculate in this case since I suspect that he isn't tuned into the facts at the bottom of the housing industry, the consumer.  Of course, I could be wrong.

Mar 23, 2010 11:35 PM
Paul S. Henderson, REALTOR®, CRS
Fathom Realty Washington LLC - Tacoma, WA
South Puget Sound Washington Agent/Broker!

Mr. Buffet has been a barometer in the past of what the market is about to do. That is how he makes his fortune. You do point out his not so perfect buys and it makes me smile. Few remember his bad buys but praise him for his foresight =)

Mar 24, 2010 12:13 AM
Ed Silva, 203-206-0754
Mapleridge Realty, CT 203-206-0754 - Waterbury, CT
Central CT Real Estate Broker Serving all equally

Lenn, economic growth in this country won't happen until qualified, permanent jobs are created. Giving someone a job created by a works project may as well be considered a stop gap, but it can't sustain the family unit. Once the support is gone so is the job. For years now we have seen jobs go off shore because of cheaper labor, tax benefits, or stipends to create manufacturing positions in countries we were cozying to. Those are gone, and until we create something new that will last this false economy will stifle our growth. Warren might be buying into those investments, but not necessarily because of a spurt that will take place within our shores.

Mar 24, 2010 12:19 AM
Tanya Nouwens
Immeubles Deakin Realty - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Real Estate Broker & Stager

Lenn, some media here in Montreal put forward the following question: Given the nature of WB's investments, i.e., in companies directly linked to housing, and given the influence of his predictions on investors and consumers alike, could it be that part of the reason why WB is predicting the housing market to recover sooner rather than later is because profit from his investments is directly linked to this taking place? -- Tanya in Montreal

Mar 24, 2010 12:52 AM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

During the stock market meltdown Warren Buffett was telling others to buy stocks when in fact he was selling them!  His returns during this time?  Average.  They were no better than the market in general.  He just has access to the media and uses it for his own ends in my opinion.  He is no 'oracle, or seer!"

Mar 24, 2010 01:59 AM
Daniel J. Hunter
REALTOR® - New Port Richey, FL

multifying - once again  I had to google that to see if it was a real word and not a typo of multipying.  Sure enough its a word.  I think I learn the most new words from you Lenn.  Thanks for expanding my knowledge base one more time

Mar 24, 2010 11:41 AM
Esko Kiuru
Bethesda, MD

Lenn,

Buffett is right about the recovery, it's just that his timing appears to be wrong. The reasons you list up there should give him pause.

Mar 24, 2010 02:08 PM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Tanya.  That thought occurred to me too.  In the past, I have noticed that Mr. Buffett's VERY PUBLIC investments could easily be considered and may, in fact, border on market manipulation. 

My recollection the disclosure filing rule for investments is 5%.  Less than a 5% investment doesn't require a filing with the SEC.  Over 5% does.  I'm sure Mr. Buffett is well aware of Rule 13D.  Less than 5% and we'd never know of his investment unless he disclosed it himself.  5% or more would trigger a filing with the SEC and I'm sure it would be picked up by the "Buffett watching" media.

 

Mar 24, 2010 09:35 PM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Esko.  I seriously doubt that Mr. Buffett thinks about families losing their homes or jobs.

Jim.  Agreed.

 

Mar 24, 2010 09:40 PM
J. Philip Faranda
Howard Hanna Rand Realty - Yorktown Heights, NY
Associate Broker / Office Manager

I'm with Sheldon. If Buffet were to sit with me at an open house or ride shotgun with some buyers he might think differently. But I hope he's right.

Mar 25, 2010 12:03 AM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Phil.  If Buffett were to sit with me and listen to the callers who are upside down, have lost their homes and can't rent, would like to buy after a short sale or foreclosure, he'd begin to see the depths of the mortgage mess. 

 

Mar 25, 2010 03:18 AM
Carrie N. Miller
Your Neighborhood Realty - Woodland Park, CO
YOUR Nieghborhood Realtor!

Lenn;

Buffett doesn't buy losers.  He AN afford to buy and hold however.  My guess is that he sees a good deal and will hold and allow those assest to build in value & demand and sell high.  Why not, I would if I could.

Don't forget, those markets are desireable in China also.

carrie n miller

 

Mar 27, 2010 02:12 AM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Carrie.  You're correct, of course. 

However, just because Buffett can buy and hold, doesn't make that company a good investment for the rest of us.

Mar 27, 2010 03:03 AM