Today was one of those days that reminds me of why I do what I do. I am in Real Estate to help people. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can’t, but I can never stop trying. This is a true real life example of some of the problems our elderly have in this country. The names have been changed to protect my Sellers. So I’ll just call them, The Lovelys. Why? Because they are. They are lovely folks who will be turning 80 in January.

The Lovelys sold their house in NY and moved to Florida about 12 years ago. From what I understand everything was going pretty well until they got a big tax bill from the IRS for the sale of their house in NY. It seems they had hired an attorney to handle all of this for them and for some reason a mistake was made and they ended up owing the IRS $50,000. This came up about 1 year after having bought their new house, they were planning to retire in. They didn’t have much money to begin with but were able to put down a good chunk as a down payment on their new home and only had to finance about $70,000. This gave them a manageable monthly payment that they could afford on their fixed incomes. Well, when they got slapped with this big IRS bill they had to refinance their mortgage to pay if off. This made keeping up with the payments more difficult, so at the age of 70, Mr. Lovely had to go back to work.

Well, life being the way is it they encountered several more of life’s difficulties and had to start borrowing money on their credit cards to be able to meet their monthly bills. This went like this for quite a few years until eventually the payments became to much for them and they refinanced their house again to pay off the consumer debt.

Again, life being unpredictable, threw a few more challenges at them and the credit card debt accumulated once more. Let’s fast forward to the boom market of 2004.

Property values increased drastically and their house built up quite a bit of equity. They met with a Realtor in late’04 to put their home on the market. Their plan was sell their home, payoff their debt again and have some money left over to move up to Georgia and pay cash for a place in an adult community. Ahh, paradise! No more bills and Mr. Lovely could finally stop working, since he was then 78 years old. The only problem was they decided to go with Buy Owner instead. This company is not a Real Estate company but a marketing company. For $2,600 they will give you a yard sign, a stack of blank contracts and place your property on their web site. That’s it. They are not licensed and cannot perform the duties of Real Estate. This includes, not being able to give you an opinion on the value of your house. But hey, the consumer doesn’t know this. So The Lovelys, ask them if they think we can get $375,000 for their house and of course the company representative says, “Sure, sounds great. Give me $2,600 right now and I will go get a sign out of my trunk and get you on the web site later this week.” This company is so nice they even mention that if your home doesn’t sell in 12 months they will reimburse your money IF you list with their affiliated Real Estate Company. Ok, so I’m going to jump ahead 12 months.

The house didn’t sell. Big surprise. Even in the boom market a house valued at $269,000 will not sell at $375,000. Anyway, The Lovelys decided, they best get their $2,600 back, so they decide to list with the affiliated Real Estate Company. The Realtor comes over and explains to them, that no, you must have misunderstood, we don’t refund the $2,600 you paid. What we do is reduce the commission to make up the difference. So instead of charging you 7% we will only charge you 6%. And by the way, we think you need to reduce the price to $345,000. Well, The Lovelys, are a little hesitant but really need to sell. That have wasted a year already, with nobody even looking at they house, so they agree. A couple of months into this new agreement they contact me desperate to sell their home and cannot understand why their house has not sold. After a little research, I explain to them that they are overpriced by about $80,000. The Lovelys are devastated. They still have 4 months to go on their listing agreement and if they cancel they have to pay a $2,000 cancellation fee. They have no money. The initial $2,600 was placed on a credit card and they have been using them to supplement their income for several years now.

This is getting really long now, so lets just say after another 4 months they have listed with me at $259,000. Unfortunately, the boom period is over and was way before I took the listing. I have had it now for 60 days and this brings us up to today. Mrs Lovely has been very depressed so I suggested we meet today and let me look at their finances, to see if I can, maybe, come up with an idea, that they have not thought of.

Folks, I must say this was a very emotional day for me. Remember these folks are almost 80. When I first starting going through their debt, I had to fight back tears, then I got angry at the credit card companies and the banks for giving these folks so much credit. Then I got mad at the Marketing Company that took their money. Then I got mad at the Realtor who priced their house $80,000 over market value and caused them to miss the boom period, when they could have sold. Then I got mad at me for not being able to help them out of this mess.

So here’s the situation, in all it’s ugliness. They owe $175,000 on the house. They owe $55,000 in consumer debt. This totals $230,000 debt. Their fixed income is less than $3,000 a month. The house has 2 mortgages on it. The first is a ARM and in March ’07 will adjust from 6.95% to 9.95%. The second is at 13%. Since the Real Estate market has changed, their house right now, max, is worth maybe $235,000. Do the math. Even if we get lucky and sell the house for top dollar, it is not even enough to pay off their debt. Where are they going to live? What are they going to eat? They have no children. They are alone. They are screwed. They are almost 80, with no hope showing.

I was honest with them. I told them they need to meet with a bankruptcy Attorney to see about getting rid of the consumer debt. Then we need to concentrate on selling the house. I will work for free, if need be, to make sure they get as much money as possible from the sale. Maybe they can get out of this with $50,000. Then, they need to move to Georgia and find a nice rental in a retirement community and enjoy what life they have left. They still have each other and that is what is important.

This story is actually a lot more complicated and a lot more disturbing than this but I’ve run out of space. But please, keep these folks in your prayers.

When a house becomes a prison!

 

49 Comments on When a house becomes a prison!

OCT
20
2006
397,898 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

"Hubby=Broker Bryant"

We can do this one for God...

It is our duty to see that these folks do not fall through the cracks.

I am praying...I am praying!

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...Kum La Ka Lakka...ROAR!

7:12pm • #1
33 Featured Posts

No words can even come close to what I would want to say.  See - that does not even make sense.  That is just a horrible situation for them as well as you.  I am sure that alot of people are in the same boat or are quickly getting into that boat.  A life lesson at that age is ... no words for it. 

7:26pm • #2
257,167 Points 77 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Sad. 

They are lucky they are in the best hands now, with you and TLW doing all you can.

7:27pm • #3
4 Featured Posts
There must be something we can do as a community.  Clearly their debt is too great for us to wipe out, but if they can be protected under the bankruptcy laws, and if you (and God) can get their house sold, why couldn't we contribute just a little something each and make their last years on this planet a little bit better.  I'm ready to step up to the plate.
7:41pm • #4
2 Featured Posts
Bryant, this couple deserves to live out the rest of their years in peace without these fears of financial ruin.  It's sad that in today's world, this problem is not to uncommon.  I think all of feel empathy for them and want to offer many solutions to solve their problems.  Our prayers are most definitely with them, and with you brother!
7:58pm • #5
596,517 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Chistine, I have to agree. There are no words. It was a difficult day and it was just as difficult writing about it. But the story needs to be out there. There is more to what we do than just selling houses.

Maureen, I left them laughing today and told them to just take the weekend off from the stress and go do something. I will be calling an Attorney on Monday to go over some options.

Geri, A few weeks back, Karen Hurst had also posted a heartbreaking story and it was brought up at that time that we consider starting an AR trust account and maybe help some people if we can. I think things are going to work out for these folks. They do have some equity is just it would be very bad if they used it to pay off consumer debt. There's too much of it. The slate needs to be wiped clean so they can start over at the young age of 80. But hey if they can find a reasonable rental and place $50,000 aside it will be OK. They are honorable people and bankruptcy is the last thing they would ever want to do.

Financial problems like this make people feel guilty and worthless, especially when you are very elderly and have no one and nothing to fall back on. My focus was to get them to understand that this is not all their fault. The lenders should have never extended this much credit to these folks.  

8:05pm • #6
9 Featured Posts

Bryant,

I was having a good evening, taking it off with my Mrs. Lovely which I seldom do. I didn't turn my laptop on for 3-4 hours which is unusual for me. Always plenty of catch up. Go to AR and to your post and......Bam!  I think you will make all readers feel exactly how you felt.....a post from the heart.  It is hard to express the compassion you have and felt, particularily when there is an anger for these predators that destroy lives so willfully.  I am not sure how I could help...but if you have any ideas just let me know.

8:31pm • #7
187,425 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bryant,

Remember when we tried to get an Active Rain fund started. Maybe if you blogged about it might happen. I don't have the pull that you have.

I don't know much about Florida law, but I have always heard that if you file bankruptcy in Florida, you get to keep your home.

Is this true? These people definitely need help. It just kills me to see stuff like this and I'm seeing it more and more.

8:33pm • #8
306,694 Points 22 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Bryant, I know this will sound callus and cold-hearted, but do they have life insurance policies?  Might there be any possibility for an advance payment ("living benefit" I think they call it)?  Just a thought in passing.....
8:40pm • #9
596,517 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Karen, That is one of the great things about Florida Homestead laws. You cannot lose you house for anything related to consumer debt. And yes, if you file a bankruptcy your homestead is not in jeopardy. Which is a very good thing for these folks.

Karen I should blog about that, but just so you know organizing these types of things is one of my weak points. However maybe TLW and yourself could run with it. Did you ever hear back from AR?

8:42pm • #10
187,425 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Last I heard was Matt talked to Caleb and they would discuss it. I suspect they are just really busy, so I didn't want to keep nagging them about it.
8:52pm • #11
596,517 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
TlW and I will be taking care of this on Monday. Stay tuned.
9:03pm • #12
3 Featured Posts
Sadly, this scenario is far more common than we want to believe.  When I go to Wal-Mart and have one of senior citizens offer me a shopping cart, I can't help but wonder what their story is.
9:59pm • #13
100,663 Points 7 Featured Posts
This is very sad and not something that is expected at that age. Who would expect to file bankruptcy at that age. Just awful. Keep me posted.
10:45pm • #15
477,446 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hey Bryant....

I have many things running through my head at this moment. I am not even going to let my feelings interfere with my current thoughts at this moment. I have a few questions and I am trying to work every angle in my head right now.

First off....some type of fund would be awesome. I am all for it. 2nd.... I am not a lawyer, but in Florida, how long would it take for them to go through a bankruptcy to clear that debt and to save the house?

Overall.....just angry at some people and how they go about their types of business to make money.

Hey Bryant, did you get my one e-mail earlier? talk later...

10:59pm • #16
OCT
21
2006
200,801 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bryant, This is such a sad story.

They are blessed to have you in their corner.

We will keep them in our prayers.

Please keep us posted.

12:29am • #17
109,855 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Took me quite a while after reading this to be able to comment. You gave them the best advice. The people I want to hunt down are the $2600 morons....it's too bad there isn't a way to have them prosecuted for fraud. Cause more than $100k over market value sounds like gross misrepresentation to me. As for your clients, thank goodness for them they finally found you.
1:13am • #18
153,588 Points 21 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Wow! That is a real bummer. For all of the people out there that do shady stuff and actually deserve it, you would hope that old folks like this would get a fair shake. Uncle Sam can be evil sometimes!

Scott

1:50am • #19
532,975 Points 45 Featured Posts Outside Blog

And "they" say we're only in this business for the money. "They" should meet Bryant.

What about publicity, Bryant? Tell their story in the newspaper, and maybe they'll get some local help - and perhaps the companies that took advantage of them will get some bad press as well. 

6:04am • #20
397,898 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

TO ALL CONCERNED PARTIES TO THIS POST.

Broker Bryant and I, his "The Lovely Wife" have a plan.

There is something we can do...Please stay tuned...

Keep the comment boxed checked and all of this will be taken care of Monday.

You are all so compassionate...It is heartwarming to see this.

My Best To You All....

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...Kum La Ka Lakka...ROAR!

6:13am • #21
35 Featured Posts

Man, BB and TLW-I had this humanitarianaward just hanging around and would like to present it to you.  I guess I never realized some of the situations Realtors come across.  What hearts you have, 

6:54am • #22

Very sad story. Credit cards could be negotiated, its unsecured debit. And for reference they could have negotiated the IRS debit as well but thats water under the bridge.

When they sell their house and clean up debit they could look into HUD housing. They would only pay rent on a percentage of their income. And utilities are subsidized as well.  No worry of maintenance. A relative lives in a HUD house in New Jersey. Very nice location with a park and lake, community activities. No reason for the Lovely's too purchase again. Obviously the better option. Or they could rent in a RV park, still very affordable.

Were in for another year of sluggish sales especially parts of Florida. Though I have to say here in New York the sale board is looking pretty good for townhouse buyers and luxury homes.

Good Luck to the Lovely's! 

 

 

7:03am • #23
18 Featured Posts

The nerd says, "we could put up a website and receive funds through a paypal accout to deposit directly into their, or another, bank account."..  hhmmmmm..
I'm always around to lend a hand

BIG nick
BIG nerd

BTW<i cant shut off the emails coming in!! AARRGGHH! dont know how to reply yet either. thanks for the welcome TLW and BB... and now I feel like eating Blueberries!

9:13am • #25
187,425 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Hey Nick, Welcome to AR! I think you're going to be an asset. Already have us laughing at your posts. (read you the other nite) Just wrote this here cause I figure you have this one checked off. BTW, when the email comes in, the subject blog is on the top in blue, Click on that and it brings you to Active rain, make sure you are logged in before replying, usually will log in automatically.
9:37am • #26
131,472 Points 46 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Bryant and TLW: Situations like this lend support for required minimum levels of service (and responsibility).

It is good that you are guiding them to a bankruptcy attorney. I would also like to see you call the local newspaper regarding this story. It is one that needs to be told.

9:57am • #28
397,898 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ladies: We will take "newspaper" under consideration. Thank you. Of course that decision belongs to "The Lovlies"...Will pass it on.

10:04am • #29
239,245 Points 56 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Well, you had me in tears. It just so sad that anyone, much less folks in their age group have to go through something like this. The scam artist and the predetors are out there in force and they just love older folks. It P***** me off!

I too, think that as combined group in Active Rain that we can and should do something to help them out. They are lucky to have you in their corner!  Let Brutus Tutus at those credit card folks ... maybe they'll stop dialing the phone and increasing credit card limits if Brutus takes care of a few arms!!

Keep us posted. Let the Lovely's know that the folks on AR are praying for them and backing you 100%

12:38pm • #30
596,517 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Gena, the hardest thing about it is the guilt they feel. They are honorable people and have dug a hole they can't get out of. I can't imagine turning 80 and being in this predicament. They just kept hoping that their house would sell and they could pay every thing off. Unfortunately, they were given "false hope" by people not being honest with them about the value of their house. I wasn't able to post all the details because of length but they also just lost $1,000 deposit they had on a place in Georgia.

They trust me explicitly, so I was able to get them to understand that what equity they have left, must go in their pockets and not the creditors. They hate doing that, but it doesn't make any sense to keep throwing their money away on interest payments. At their age it cannot be replaced.  

  

12:53pm • #31
397,898 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

"The Lovely Gena"

Boy what a memory you have. Like I said we would make a great team.

Sic 'em Brutus! AMEN to that.

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...Kum La Ka Lakka...ROAR!

1:06pm • #32
596,517 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi there, As I read back through the comments, I feel I need to point out. I do not believe there has ever been any fraud or illegal practices from any of the companies involved. The problem is the consumer is not aware of what they are signing on to in most cases. As Realtors we need to really take the time and explain to folks the good and the bad and not concentrate on our paychecks. We are in such an excellent profession and have such an awesome opportunity to use our skills for helping people, not just selling them.

If someone is buying  a house that you just know in your gut they can't afford, then let them know that. We can't decide for them but we can make sure they understand what they are doing. And be honest when pricing a home. Sellers are counting on this money and making plans based on what you are telling them.

Being a Realtor has a great responsibility attached to it. Take what you do seriously. If done with reckless abandon, we can destroy lives. There are real people, mothers, fathers, grand parents, children behind every deal we do. Just try to remember that. Step it up a notch. Make being a Realtor mean something positive to the public.

1:15pm • #33
5 Featured Posts
I cant begin to tell you how many of these same stories i could repeat right now.  I have 4 currently listed in very similiar situations....
4:14pm • #34
Like Marguerite, I too am hearing a lot more of the similar stories. I think with the gourmet mortgages of the last couple of years, we will be hearing and seeing many similar stories. My heart goes out to each homeowner.
7:55pm • #36
OCT
22
2006
9 Featured Posts

BB,

It sounds like a number of options need to be considered in searching for solutions for these folks, including bankruptcy. I used to know and understand the Bankruptcy Code much better before its most recent changes. I know that it has tougher restrictions than before. If that turns out not to be a solution and/or your clients still want to avoid it then I would suggest they consider a good not-for-profit credit counselling agency.  They may contribute some excellent advice and if your clients use them they may be able to negotiate the credit cards down to 0% interest and possibly even a partial balance writeoff. Also, possibly avoiding attorney and legal costs.  Thing is you never know unless you ask or request.

5:53am • #37
477,446 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

BB.... even though you went back and read what you wrote.... that you don't believe there was any fraud. It's the next worst thing and should still be considered fraud when someone purposely deceives another in a transcation. Even though this is considered lying or giving false information...or not explaining all the facts and the outcome.

I still have been thinking about this yesterday and today. Last night, I wrote a blog on something similar to this.Well...one of my comments in my blog was like your example, in a certain way. Not the main topic.  Rules that aim to cut the risks on 'exotic' mortgages!!!!!

9:44am • #38
239,245 Points 56 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Preying on the Senior is abhorrent. A dear of mine who lives with her mother who is in her 70's and has selective memory receives phone calls and junk mail daily from credit card companies and Lenders offering junk. When the daughter leaves, she is having the phone answered by the telephone company which will determine if the call can actually go through or not (nice feature) and having the mail sent to a P.O. Box so that the other family member can pick it up and go through it with his mother. This is all out of fear of the predators!

I say let Brutus Tutus out of the backyard and let him attack!

10:35am • #39
129,753 Points Outside Blog
once again those years are to be the best and it sounds like horor. I was so sad reading that story. I have no respect for others who take advantage of others.
11:09am • #40
114,008 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

If they have no children (or estate) what if they just pass on from this home -using Homestead protection ...will they really have a debt to pay?

What is their health like- I am sure they are in angst as their generation certainly knows a dollar is hard earned..

Church or investor group to buy out then rent back to them ?

just rambling- hate that the elderly get taken advantage of. My grandma (widowed and alone) lives in Palm Beach Gardens and has been considering dropping her HO Ins and take the risk because she cant afford it..Sad.

Your story is certainly something worth public awareness..problem is the vultures out there will present some gimick to the ones that dont have guidance like your sellers who have you looking out for their best interest.

 

5:47pm • #41
185,660 Points 28 Featured Posts Outside Blog
This makes me want to throw up.  God bless them, will be praying for a solution to work out!
8:17pm • #42
OCT
23
2006
397,898 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

"TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN"

I have been working on this problem with The Lovelys today.

I hope to have a solution in place within a few days.

Turns out our idea is just a little more complicated than we expected. Please stay tuned. Keep those boxes checked!

Will put things into motion as soon as I can. Then I can release you from box duty. LOL SEE :>

Gratefully,

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...Kum La Ka Lakka...ROAR!

3:25pm • #43
OCT
24
2006
2 Featured Posts
Unbelievable......salesman people hate: insurance, cars, real estate....not necassarily in that order. Now I know why so many doors get slammed in my face. This industry really needs to get rid of scumbags like this so the rest of us can make an honest living helping prevent situations like this. God Bless all those who are involved helping this poor couple out and hopefully enjoy what little life they have left.
8:18am • #44
OCT
25
2006
397,898 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

TO ANY ONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO HELP THE LOVELYS.

PLEASE FOLLOW THIS LINK,

THERE IS SOMETHING WE CAN ALL DO TO INSURE

THESE ELDERY FOLKS GET OUT FROM UNDER THE HOUSE

THAT HAS BECOME THEIR PRISON.

Gratefully,

Broker Bryant and The Lovely Wife. ROAR!

3:29pm • #45
DEC
21
2006
454,943 Points 50 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Wow.... Words just cannot describe how they must feel. I can see why you would be upset, and I would too. This is how we the salespeople get the bad name, but then again we have people like you and some on AR that shine through. I'm following up with the next post!

Thank you for doing what you need to do.
8:16am • #46
596,517 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Loreena, The Lovelys have now started the bankruptcy process and I have taken their home off the market until the legal process is complete. I met with them this week and printed off this post with all the comments and gave it to Mrs Lovely. She was really really touched by the out pouring of support. It made her day.
8:21am • #47
SEP
01
2007
397,364 Points 17 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I'm afraid a friend of mine is going to find herself in a similar situation. I have her house listed and it's not really overpriced, but the only houses that are selling are the ones that are priced below the competition, not even with it. She's struggling to make the payments each month and will have a balloon payment next year.  She may have to let her house go into foreclosure.
5:53pm • #48
SEP
02
2007
147,247 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I think a LOT of people are either IN this position or WILL be in this position.  It's not something people like to talk about until it's too late.
11:04am • #49

Leave a response…



(optional)
What does the graphic say?
 
Pic21 Rainmaker_large

Bryant Tutas Broker/REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Poinciana, FL

More about me…

Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Address: P.O. Box 969, Dundee, Fl, 33838

Office Phone: (407) 870-9003

Cell Phone: (407) 873-2747

Email Me

Florida Property search

Bryant Tutas

Create Your Badge

SHORT SALE TRAINING

Taught by Wendy Rulnick and Bryant Tutas

$97

Listen to a sample of the 5 part webinar:

Delivered by FeedBurner


Visit Short Sale Superstars

All original, all the time.          Broker Bryant's ramblings on    Real Estate in Poinciana, Fl

 


Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
Visit TTRealty Network

free web counter
free web counter



Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog

Find FL real estate agents and Poinciana real estate on ActiveRain.