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"I'm Sorry, But I Can't Tell You How Big the House is..."

They say change is constant. Nothing stays the same. We all know this to be true because we can see change happening around us all the time.

But sometimes change is awfully strange.

Take for example, the change that is coming to how we sell real estate in our part of the world. Pretty soon, we will no longer be discussing square footage of properties with potential buyers. In fact, it seems like this information may no longer become available.

The following was included in yesterday's weekly bulletin release from our local MLS Board.

Monday, May 3, 2010

Weekly Facts Blog - May 3, 2010

BOARD RECOMMENDS SQUARE FOOTAGE DATA NO LONGER BE USED

Based on a decision by the Oklahoma Supreme Court and the recommendation of NORES Legal Counsel, the NORES Board of Directors approved taking action to begin the process of removing square footage data from all active listings and information available through NORES. The Board also approved taking action to recommend changes in the sales contract and other supplemental forms. The Board intends to request the participation of the other REALTOR® Associations in the State to propose legislative action to address the potential liability for the disclosure of square footage data.

According to the Oklahoma Supreme Court decision, "A buyer of real property may rely upon the positive representations of REALTORS® and sellers about the size of the property to be conveyed." The buyer is not obligated to conduct an investigation to determine the actual square footage if such a representation is made. The Court held that a waiver and release signed by the buyer did not protect the REALTOR® from liability for any detriment suffered by the buyer, or from allegations that the REALTOR® violated the Oklahoma Real Estate License Code by misrepresenting the size of the home.

At this time, the Board recommends you cease providing any square footage data to a buyer, including information available through the MLS. The Board also recommends any advertisements of homes, including online and print media, not include any square footage data.

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If you read between the lines here, you can tell that this is a reaction to somebody who sued somebody over a square footage disagreement of some sort. And apparently it went all the way to the Oklahoma Supreme Court. Now, because of this Supreme Court ruling, the MLS board is reacting in such a way that is now going to impact the way we do business with our clients.

While I'm not second guessing the board's intent(which I think is to keep the rest of us from getting sued), I am wondering how in the world our society and culture got to this point. Somebody sues somebody because square footage wasn't reported correctly? The only reason this happened was because somebody lied. Or somebody was dishonest and didn't come clean somewhere along the way whenever the problem erupted.

One thing that is true is that you can always work through problems better if you'll tell the truth, put the cards on the table and take responsibility. We all make mistakes and admitting that you screwed up and are willing to fix it can be a good way to produce a good outcome. Don't get me wrong here. I don't wear rose colored glasses. I know that some people are looking for opportunities to sue. But living honestly still makes sleeping at night a whole lot better.

So I guess I'm going to have to develop a script to use whenever someone wants to know the square footage of a property. I hope the day doesn't come when we can no longer tell people if houses actually have windows and doors!

Any suggestions?

Photo used with permission from Flickr Creative Commons: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinksherbet/3209939998/

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Posted by Bob Haywood, www.BobHaywood.com on 05/04/2010 03:56 PM

Comments (101)

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101 Comments on "I'm Sorry, But I Can't Tell You How Big the House is..."

MAY

2010

Wow. That is interesting (I want to say ridiculous, but I am trying to be open minded).

Jen Wing

Hm, that seems a bit drastic. The board could've simply created a square footage disclosure or release of liability as you are somewhat suggesting you'll do. Most homebuyers want to know what the approximate square footage is when performing home searches and making comparisons.

Our board is the same and I really appreciate it. The problem is that no two people measure the same way! It is a very misleading approach to selling and our clients are well aware of the tricks Realtors attempted in listing sq ftge in their marketing attempts.

Tell them to have their attorney come measure each house they view.

Taking square footage out of the equation makes it impossible to see how much comparable properties sold for per square foot, which is one of the important methods for buyers to determine if there is value in the property. Oh, and I will continue to tell people if a house has windows and doors.

We have a spot for it but it is not mandatory and I would say over 70% of listings here do not have the information. Yet it is one of the first questions out of a buyers mouth! If we do not know we are not allowed to jst guess. No information is better than wrong information.

Bob, Oklahoma City is not changing at this time. I talked to a couple of members of the MLS Board.

Bob, Seems kind silly. Not only are we expected to measure each property we list, we're given guidelines and told HOW to measure, so everyone is on the same page... Further our MLS provides a range ILO hard numbers. Seems to work just fine for us.

I sold RE in Dayton Ohio in the late 1980s We did not have square footage in the MLS but listings had the approximate dimesions of the rooms in the mls. you could eyeball it and decide if the size was right. When I moved to Columbus Ohio... there were no room dimensions or square footage in the MLS. I hated it looking at homes as a buyer. I remember when they added SF to our MLS our manager was dead set against it. It had been removed because of a lawsuit.

We have two fields for square footage one is the auditors which is sometimes wrong... the other can be something else... I forget what SqFt ATFLS means.... then you have to give the source for that, seller, measured, builder...

Good luck...

How do you sell homes without knowing the square footage? I don't need exact numbers, but it's hard to tell from photos whether a home is 2400 sq ft or 4800 sq ft. And both might have 4 bedrooms. I think buyers want some idea how much house they are buying.

Wouldn't your county's tax website still contain that information? How in the world do you narrow down houses when someone wants at least 3000 sqft? You can't assume all 4 bedrooms homes are large as some can still be under 1500 sqft.

That's just plain riduculous and for your board to go along with it is even more ridiculous.

We find that many buyers are very analytical and do rely on square footage when comparing homes. Here in Ohio, I don't know of talk to get rid of square footage in the MLS, but I'm interested to see how the transition goes in OK. Thanks for sharing, Bob.

Bob, while on the surface this makes sense, I never see a listing around here without a square footage attached to it. There can be a huge difference between a 4000 sq ft 2 bedroom house and a 1000 sq ft 2 bedroom house.

Very diffucult to shop as a buyer! When we bought a second home in North Georgia, it was especially difficult b/c there is no SF listed NOR do they really list the true number of bedrooms (due to septic regulations or some such fiddle faddle). Talk about difficult! a 1500 SF 3/3 is NOT the same as a 2800SF 4/3 plus another unfinished bath/br listed as a 3/3.

As a Realtor in those areas, you must really need to know your market cold to help the buyers.

Another good example of regionality! Our MLS pulls the square footage from the assessors office. An agent has the means to change that number, but must then list if it is the seller's number or the agent's number. I would never use anything but the official county number!

I agree with Bob and others above. When I pull subdivision or local comps, I use LA as well as assessment to show value. Assessed value means nothing except when the 20 sold comps that closed over the last 4 months sold at an average of 105% of AV, and the property that the buyer is interested in, is listed at 130% of assessed value. That is a red flag. The same with PPSF.

Our local MLS, (DC,MD & No Va) just TODAY released a new feature that automatically pulls the living area from the tax records and displays it in the listing(s). It's a handy feature.

! think it will be a lazy agents dream. so many agents in our market don't put room sizes in and will put "sq ft per county records" instead of actually measuring the house. there are plenty of errors on county records for sure.

I agree with the fact that it will be an appraisers nightmare along with the agents. will they have to go measure comps now? "Hey, Get outta my yard!" crazy!

Oh. Good. Lord.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard of (this week..)

We make a disclosure that all information should be verified. I think it is great for the agent to help get info for their client, but buyers need to know that it is their responsibility to do their own due diligence!

Atlanta has had the same for a long time, as in no mention. But here in a reverse shift there is now a sq ft field in listings and a note as to where the number came from, appraisal, tax record etc.. I started measuring houses in the 1980s in N.C. and have enjoy ignoring sq ft in GA. Without a referenc to point to I'm not about to quote a number, and even them I'm gonna call it wrong.

The problem is the OK Court decided tha REALTORs(R) were to be held liable. They went so as to say that even if the buyer signs a waiver and release they can still file suit againt the brokerage/broker/agent. We don't have all the facts yet though.

We had a case in Texas where the agent put a figure in the MLS but did not quote the source of the data. The court found the brokerage liable. The decision was that the brokerage become the source when they failed to disclose the source of the data.

Tom

We're always cautioned not to make any claims about the square footage, of either a house or the lot itself. Everytime there's a lawsuit over something like this, we have yet another disclosure form for our files, which are now many inches thick. I used to think it was just in lawsuit happy California, but apparently I have lots of good company.

Bob...

Square footage is subjective and not absolute, and it there has been a ton of litigation about the differences of opinion.

Most square footage disclosures here in the Los Angeles area are based on county assessors records so the Realtor does not warrant the accuracy of that information.

Next thing you know we will be measuring based upon the volume that the home can hold - How many liters or gallons is this house, of course the 9 foot and raised ceilings will throw that all off.

Rick reduction broker policy #14. Don't list square feet.

very interesting post.

Interesting post......read Lenn Harleys post on "don't sell by the square footage"....

Buyers will start having to bring their own tape measures to showings.

Bob - One of my team members was sued for square footage variance while at a previous brokerage. She disclosed that square footage source was from an APPRAISAL, but that buyer was to verify. The new owner's appraisal was 200 SF smaller and the buyer is on a vendetta, suing agent, broker, seller, etc. I do think square footage should be eliminated. You can usually tell a house's size by its price LOL

Sounds like a good business opportunity for a 3rd-party company.

Just another nail in the coffin that makes it harder to do our job. Pretty soon we won't even be able to talk to our buyers. LoL

Wendy, If the associate told the client that it was their responsibility to verify, then how can the associate be sued?

Wow, I don't know how I would get around that. I believe a buyer does need a general idea, but shouldn't rely solely on that information. A good walk through the house does wonders on knowing if your stuff will fit in it or not, but you do need a general idea.

Bob - I guess anyone can sue anyone. This is going to trial in September. I have been given permission to blog on the details at that point. Our MLS has a standard disclaimer that buyer should verify all data. She repeated that in her listing, plus stated square footage source, but we'll see what the judge says.

Our MLS not only requires that we put in the square footage for the heated/cooled living space, but also for the total building (garages, porches, utility rooms, etc.) No way around it. Also no way to keep it off the sheets we print up for customers unless we go through each one and black them out. Our customers here often ask for a range of square footage, though that may not be common in other areas. Just going by the number of bedrooms can be deceiving since I have seen 1,000 square foot homes with 3 bedrooms and they were horrible, like sleeping in a closet. We can note whether we actually measured the home, used builder records, or public records for measurements. Of course, at the bottom of each report for customers they are warned that information is not guaranteed and should be verified.

Our MLS requires that we put in the square footage and we input all of our listing with a note "Per PVA". But this might not even protect us. We even have issues with what school district a home is zoned for if we put in the incorrect school that is a Big NO NO. So we input the school administration phone number for them to get that information themselves. What is a Realtor to do?

On our GA MLS there isn't even an option to enter it. In the NC MLS you have the option, but many don't enter anything because of the liability.

Well we do the best we can as agents to convey accurate measurements, I always include M/L because I may not measure like an appraiser would so I don't want to be held liable. If sq footage is removed the MLS will need to be revamped because for now we have to enter that field to imput the listing.

Until there are specific standards on how to go about measuring a house, I think you are going to always have problems. Check out tax assessor data. It can really be off by a lot. So even with the same standards it's still tough to come up with an accurate value. It's best to just stay away from the topic and let it be, what you see is what you get.

Tim, good point. I didn't mention it in the blog, but the tax assessor data is usually very unreliable. It is amazing how far off it can be.

Joe Pryor, it will be interesting to see if Tulsa changes and OKC doesn't. I wonder if OKC not changing might keep Tulsa from going ahead and changing.

Bob, I also have analytical buyers who rely on sq. ft. I just bought a laser measure today so the guy I am working with can measure the rooms of the houses we visit. We have disclaimers that it is an estimate, but I get your point and think it is a sad commentary that we are such a litigious society. The sq. ft. on the appraisal may be wrong. I had one a few years ago that was and we had to have the appraiser come back and measure again.

Risk reduction sounds good to me. I have seen houses that have several different square footage sizes noted in the tax roll, MLS and appraisers measurements. We can all be wrong but we all can't be right.

Okay Everyone, any ideas on how NOT to offer square footages right now when square footages are a common everyday discussion?

I had to come to read this after I made a post on another post about room measurements. I think they teach sq ft in the first class an appraiser must sit to become licensed. It ain't rocket science. I do not know the lawsuit and the details that would have a court make such a ridiculous statement that you made a quote of; "A buyer of real property may rely upon the positive representations of REALTORS® and sellers about the size of the property to be conveyed." The buyer is not obligated to conduct an investigation to determine the actual square footage if such a representation is made. The Court held that a waiver and release signed by the buyer did not protect the REALTOR® from liability for any detriment suffered by the buyer, or from allegations that the REALTOR® violated the Oklahoma Real Estate License Code by misrepresenting the size of the home.

Now that I am thinking about it - both Oklahoma and Arizona must be flying a different flag than NJ. We have one with white stars on a blue field with red and white stripes. What do they fly out there?

Oh, yeah. Never mind - it must be all the "states rights" stuff that makes buying a home in one state completely different than buying a home in a neighboring state. Let's keep the public confused - I know I am.

I think that the fact that we measure VALUE of home based on square footage is stupid, but I guess we haven't figured a better way. Now this. Only in Oklahoma.

MAY

2010

I do not understand how one can remove one of the major parameters for comparison. And I completely disagree that it is stupid. Try to work with investors, and sq. footage and price PSF would be the decisive factor.

How else you will be comparing for the Buyer who is out of the area?

Risk or not risk, without objective parameters, it is nto real estate, it is BS

OH, Bob, I only wish NC would adopt this rule. We now have the SF 'range' which brings about more comments and questions about square footage than ever before--I love the comment above to have their attorney come measure the house! Great advice!

Are the room sizes good for you? Total number of beds and baths good enough? 2-story greatroom high enough for you? Then, who cares about the total number of square feet--okay, well, other than appraisers!! LOL

I could't agree more and wish we would go this route too in NC!

If we post the square footage of the home or lot, we are required to indicate the source, which are usually county records. All of our forms contain disclaimers stating that we (listing and or buyers agents) make no representations to the accuracy of the information provided...

I'd copy and paste the verbiage, but I'm not sure that would be kosher.

I still run into clients who expect an agent to tell them whether a neighborhood is 'good' or not. Geez - how would I ever explain I can't tell them how big a house is?

Our RMLS require room sizes, which I don't have a problem with. The overall house sq. ft. is typically taken off the tax records. What I have the problem with is the lising agent plugging in the basement in with the total. Oh, did I mention the basement is UNFINISHED!! Now that's worse IMHO.

This seems to coming at the wrong time! We are already having appraisal issues from out of area appraisers, this will compound it !

Charlotte NC took at different approach.... The agent is still responsible for accurate measurements, but the EXACT measurements are not published on the MLS instead it is a range of approximately 15%. 5% under the top and 10% above the bottom.... so people don't really know how big it is. Yet when it closes the actual square footage is put in the comps. So this makes every agent try and figure out the square footage of a home, rather than just saying "It is 2345 square feet" We get to say "Well it's somewhere between 2000 - 2500. Let me look at the tax records, or old listings and see if I can figure it out... and if you really want to make an offer, I'll go measure it for you....or try and get the listing agent to give us her measurements, if you promise not to sue her, or me for our findings, especially if it is under 5% difference from any future measurements you may have done by at least 3 professionals."

Another Charlottean weighing in on the square footage issue. In NC, listing agents are responsible for accuracy of information in the MLS no matter how many disclaimers there are. I prefer the old way of having the square footage noted rather than the ranges we have now. Buyers still want to know how much square footage a house has and get very confused by the ranges. For me, the biggest downside to ranges rather than exact numbers is in pricing a listing. Yes, we have exact numbers from the sold comps but in today's market we also have to look at the competition. When we pull up a list of competitors, you can no longer show the seller where they will fit in because the square footage ranges are all over the place.

Why did the square footage change to ranges here in Charlotte? Because the big companies who dominate the MLS got tired of getting sued by buyers over differences in what the agents entered into MLS and what the appraisals showed.

Just another way for the bar to be lowered. Board to the agent: "So you can't measure a home correctly? Don't worry, we will just eliminate that requirement. Can you count the bedrooms?"

How CRAZY is that? In AZ, we cite the source of the square footage and it's typically the county assessor. If there's an old appraisal that cites different SF, some people will use that. Then, there's the "per homeowner" - that one cracks me up.

One of my clients was heavily reliant on room measurements because of his furniture. I made him help hold the tape measure.

What happens when the bank appraiser comes in and measure differently? I know, let's sue him/her because that electronic measurement came in different than my tape measure.

GEEZ!!!!

Wow. We had a similar fiasco here in Maine a few years ago, but the real estate commission took a slightly different tack. -Must not have made it to our supreme court. We are now required to include square footage for all properties with specific guidelines for how it is to be measured or where the data came from (public record, appraisal, seller, etc.) Also, with specific rules of what counts as square footage above grade or below. We usually opt for the public record info from the town. Previously many brokers simply left this info out leading to public complaints of time wasted on homes that were too small.

Our MLS (and brokers) do NOT allow is to put that in the MLS or discuss it... too many lawsuits (here) has resulted in sq ft issues. IF someone wants more info on that, I send them the property profile and explain that even "these" are not always accurate.

Also, I called C.A.R. legal hotline about the "measuring" a home or property and the attorney said she would NEVER measure anything. LIABILITY was her next word.

I just stated on Lenn's post that our MLS does not require the square footage - it, in fact, discourages it. Too many lawsuits.

The winds of change blow from different directions. Here in the Atlanta MSA for years we did not include square footage in the MLS and realtors, when asked, had no comment about square footage. That all changed recently, I DO NOT KNOW WHY, and now square footage from the tax records is imported into the MLS. Typically the tax records are a VERY unreliable source. So now instead of using no information, we choose to use questionable information.

What the Bleep Causes This?

My MLS has the square footage imported from tax records. If there are obvious additions or garage conversions that add space not included in the assessor's numbers, we put that in the notes with the caveat that they may be unpermitted, therefore the sq footage is not included in the tax assessment.

I don't know how you could not have the sq footage shown. As someone else commented, I have seen 900 sq ft. houses with 3 bedrooms and 2000 sq foot houses with three bedrooms. Most of my clients see it as a way to determine if their furniture will fit.

My thoughts when someone acts however needed to cause this is "I'm glad I don't live in their skin". I feel that people that create problems like probably have a pretty unhappy life overall. If they are happy now their "justice" will come in one form or another. Live with integrity and will enjoy your world.

Sq. footage has never been required in our MLS and buyers don't shop that way around here. However, if I checkmark a box to use tax data to automatically add info to a listing, if the tax data has the sq. footage it will come up on the listing. I've never really thought too much about it since every listing has a disclaimer.

Rarely do I have sq. footage on a listing and hearing about lawsuits (I also read Lenn's post), makes me want to delete any sq. footage on any of my listings. Although once in a while a buyer will inquire about sq. footage, when I explain that not many listings have it they forget about it.

Interesting responses- seems like a lot of states "outlaw" square footage. My only question is how to do comps, and then how do appraisers get the right number.

If this becomes standard...agents can not enter SF into the listing data. The consumer visiting our MLS feed will not have access to SF data.

Aggregate web sites however, steal your data from you with the permission of Realtor.com, will add the SF data from the tax data base, street views and guestimates. This is a frontal assualt on the value a real estate professional brings to the market place. Another 'rule' to prohibit a professional from providing crucial data a home buyer needs. Yet, real estate professionals will be the ones painted with the broad brush of with holding data and deceptive practices.

Did you hear the one about a bus load of lawyers going over the cliff.......

WOW - That is crazy!

Bob: I think anyone who answers a buyer's question about square feet by saying "I'm sorry, but I can't tell you how big the house is" is going to be met by a "look" from the buyers. Why the look ? Because they are wondering if that salesperson got their license last week, or the week before.

Fort Worth/Dallas is a major new home market... with many, many builders. Of all the builders in the area... in just about all the price ranges... there is only ONE builder that I know of who does NOT put square footages on their plans or price sheets. That builder is David Weekley... a builder who has a fine reputation, but continues to mystify buyers by not providing square footages. I have disagreed with that policy for years, and I still do. With most buyers that I have shown these homes to, most wonder "what the builder is trying to hide" by NOT sharing the square footage information.

Buyers are not dumb. At least not the majority of them. If a Realtor or an on-site sales person has even half a brain, they can easily qualify an answer by using a disclaimer that states that square footages are approximate, and all square footage measurements should be verified by the buyer. Once you say that, doing it firmly, and make sure the buyer understands it... you should be "safe" from having it hit you in the fanny later on.

In Houston, and in Texas in general, we are not expected to measure total house square footage, only rooms. In our MLS the only required rooms to measure are the bedrooms.

For total house square footage we have a choice for the source of the square footage, those choices being: Appraisal district (most commonly used), builder, homeowner (if there is an addition for instance that isn't covered by the appraisal district, and finally the broker (agent) which is rarely if ever chosen. The MLS page that the public views also has a disclaimer in it also. So far no legal issues have occured down here because of size and/or measurements.

The only way I ever use square footage is if it is on a local government website with parcel information. Then we can check the spot that says it's from public information.

By the way, when I show properties to buyers I have in my car a lazer measuring device that I pull out when room dimensions are of importance to a client. I also have them read the numbers also so they don't come back on me if there is a later issue. We have to protect ourselves.

Yet another informative read today. Thanks so much for getting it out to us today.

Patricia/Seacoast NH

Disclosure, Disclosure, Disclosaure! You can also give buyers links to Public Records and other websites that give this type of information, ie: Property Shark. Thanks for this post, it's amazing how litigious society can be!

Well there is one problem and now every consumer in the State gets screwed. I thought Oklahomans had more common sense than that. SF is a key factor, of course we rely mainly on county records and tell everyone to check on there own.

Wow, how can you market a house without providing the square footage? This perplexes me.

That seems a bit overboard but I have to agree I don't quote footage anymore. Too many errors in MLS.

It would be interesting to see the actual law suit, assuming that is what this is about. And, see how far off the square footage was.

Its very interesting to see the wide range of approaches in our markets.

This is just one more example of a litigious society gone haywire! Its just common sense that the sf of a home is at least as important to buyers as numbers of bedrooms and baths. Because SIZE DOES MATTER.

I've been happy to see that Georgia MLS has migrated back to using SF - Lake Country MLS has used it all along. As a listing agent, I primarily use the Tax Assessor data, and make sure to check with my sellers to see if they think there are any material problems with that. Alternately, I may use an appraisal. I personally do not measure homes - thats where I think some real mischief could reside.

I thought that was the purpose of the statment at the bottom of every listing: "This information is deemed correct but not guaranteed" The lack of this information is not helping buyers make decisions. The loser if the buyer. Total diservice.

This is nuts.

Measuring a house - from the outside - per standard appraisal practices should result in fairly repeatably measurements from one measurer to the next. If the measurements don't agree, the sketches should be compared and the numbers verified.

That being said, buyers should buy a house at X price for the whole house, not Y price per square foot. They've SEEN the house and decided it was worth X to them when they entered into the contract. A property's value is determined by a host of elements: location, condition, amenities, lot size, landscaping, external factors (proximity to commercial property), etc., not just size.

That being said, I think the listing agent should have a reputable and verifiable source for the listed size of the home, BUT the buyer should either be required to verify the size independently OR sign a release saying they have chosen not to do so and accept the consequences. Removing square footage data from the MLS is avoiding addressing the actual problem: the prevalent assumption that the number of square feet is the primary indicator of value.

This is a huge regional issue. In my part of VA we list square footage. 50 miles east of me they not only list square footage but are REQUIRED to put room sizes in MLS. In northern VA there is no square footage.

I think that courts and mls boards need to use common sense. A simple disclaimer in MLS information would solve everything:

If Square Footage is Important to you, Please be sure and measure for yourself before making an offer as the listed square footage is a very rough estimate.

Bob,

This is bizarre to say the least. I like Damon's idea how to get beyond this issue; have the buyer himself measure out the property.

OK, I didn't read all the comments but it would make more sense ...

To provicde a range, i.e. home between 2200 and 2400 sq ft, or similar. This would cover the different ways people measure square footage and besides, the buyer is going to get an appraisal which will confirm the data.

And...

They have their heads buried where? :)

TLW...ROAR!

Bob,

You know interestingly enough, while it is a challenge, Atlanta has gone from not having any sq footage represented for over a decade (because of lawsuits) to now adding it back.

Folks need to understand it is not a perfect world. I was happy to see it come back from a general point of view. I'll be curious to see what comes out of this as the best solution.

All the best, Michelle

Ack....overkill. As long as you disclose where the square footage figure comes from..ie, tax rolls, seller, estimate...then I think it's fine.

Bob - This seems like a major over-reaction in an effort to reduce liability. I always put the square footage "per the tax records" on flyers, etc. This will make it tough for buyers who have an idea of what size they are looking to purchase.

We just added it into Atlanta First MlS. If you put the county tax ID number in you listing it will pull the information from the tax records for you! I am so glad we did that so many people ask for it:)

Since so many people pick their homes based on square footage, it's going to be difficult for them to find their homes. Though I see the point of the MLS, everything gets taken too far sometimes.

MAY

2010

I understand why we won't want square footage on the MLS. I don't believe it provides customer service excellence. Should be some reference ie. tax records.

I don't understand why a buyer can't pick up a tape measure and satisfy themselves by measuring the home. There real can't be that many tape measured impaired buyers.

I really think this is about something else (mad at the agent, seller, the world, etc) and square footage just happens to be the vehicle with the most teeth to take to court.

Our MLS in Santa Barbara hasn't taken a position, but it is a common practice to not put the SF on listings here. It is also common that every client asks "whats the SF". I often find myself looking it up in the public records, especially when I preform a CMA. Well how often are public records correct? I think we should have the SF on listings. I would suggest that; the source of the SF be listed next to the SF, and that verification of the SF be part of the Buyers Inspection. The method would also be good to know; was the measurements taken based on interior (net) or exterior (gross). This makes a big difference.

It's not hard to measure, I'd be temted to do it myself, but imagine the liability?

The tax assessor sf info is not always reliable, and if the owner knows the actual sf then in the AZ MLS we can input the owners number and select the box with the "Owner" as the sf source.

I think sf is important as there is a difference in the cost to build a 4000 sf home and a 5000 sf home.

I always explain the difference between Assessor, Appraiser, Agent, Owner, and Livable Square Footage. I always suggest the buyer measure for themselves if it's a material matter. But removing the square footage from a listing is going to make it near impossible to help buyers. I guess if you live in a small town you'll know what properties fall into certain size ranges, but here in Phoenix we have over 42,000 listings.

Bob, I have been dealing with this for 5 years now. On-resales we do not list square footage but on new builds we are allowed to.

When I list a resale home, I measure the rooms and post accordingly. In the remarks on the listing and feature sheets and a clause I add to all purchaser's offers is the following. All measurements to be verified by purchaser and are used here for demonstration purposes only.

Ridiculous is the right word for this development.

I know in SC they add something like, "if square footage is important to you, measure!" and puts the interest with the buyer and not on the seller for accuracy, or incorrect tax records. We have to do CYA's with everything these days!

MAY

2010

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Hi, Bob. Great post; congratulations on the feature! I'm hearing rumblings that square footage and acreage are best determined by an appraiser.

For now, our MLS says "Sq. Ft. (approx)" and I always take my own measurements. Many times, a tax assessor does not go inside but determines that the square footage on the main floor is X, after measuring the base and, when it appears to be a two-story house, he adds the same square footage on the second floor. Given the preponderance of "cabins" here, it is likely that it will have a loft and not a full second story so that number may not be accurate. That's why I never just accept the numbers on the tax records.

MAY

2010

Leslie - you opened another door - acreage. Just imagine trying to select land properties to present to a buyer without acreage listed... thaty would be a joke!

MAY

2010

Our Business is based on providing accurately measured floor plans. We provide discalimers that all our Floor Plans are accurate within 6" although all of us our trained architects and I believe we actually took a year in school on how to Measure an existing building. It all has to do with triangulating your location to ensure all walls are straight and accurate. however in my real estate course they did not teach that.

Jason - they did teach that in my real estate course. Unfortunately, we just have too many in the business that cannot be trusted to present the correct information. They feel it is to be used as a marketing tool and therefore do not use the standard measurement guidelines rules. It is for this reason that our board also discourages us from including the square footage of the home. We do include room measurements with which my clients feel much more comfortable.

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Bob Haywood, www.BobHaywood.com

Owasso, OK

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McGraw Realtors

Address: 12620 East 86th Street North, Owasso, OK, 74055

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