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Who Is Zillow Really Targeting? It’s the AGENT stupid – not the consumer….

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Real Estate Agent with Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605

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This post was influenced by two blogs that were recently posted on Active Rain. The first was Bob Haywood’s excellent  post  – How Did We Let This Happen??? Internet  Real Estate Tough Talk .  Although this blog was a members-only blog -  it was about a mass email sent to agents from Zillow offering us all placement as a Zillow Premier Agent in the zip code of my choice.  The only requirement was that I (and anyone else contacted) be willing to pay for the privilige.   The second was Ron Tarvin’s blog Zillow named in a patent infringement lawsuit.  (http://activerain.com/blogsview/1630729/zillow-named-in-patent-infringement-lawsuit)   Unlike Bob’s post, this blog was public-facing.  So the members of the public might want to stop by and see what agents across the country actually think of the Zillow “Zestimate” – for those who feel that a Zestimate is a fairly accurate indication of home value, this should prove illuminating.

Disclaimer – There is no love-loss between Zillow and me:

Those who have been reading my comment threads on various forums know that I have absolutely no love for Zillow whatsoever.  I consider their forums poorly monitored, and  their Zestimates to be pointless bordering on the unethical since any number that is often off by 20% or more that the public tends to implicitly trust has the capacity to cause harm.

The fact that the Zestimate itself is inherently inaccurate doesn’t  bother Zillow one wit.  Their canned responses in Ron Tarvin’s blog regarding the lawsuit is a strong indication of same.  They know the Zestimates are often way off the mark.  They know it causes confusion within the public. They know this has the capacity to harm a seller. They know that agents tear their hair over inaccurate Zestimates that cause the public to put lowball offers on their listings. But they don’t care, because it was never about providing transparent information to the pubic.  It was – and is – all about the traffic.  If it drives people to their site, they simply could care less. The question is why?


For Zillow – it was never really about the consumer:

I have long suspected that Zillow’s  whole point of being is to insert themselves between the client (either the seller or buyer) and the agent as a pointless middleman who has managed to glom onto real estate leads.   Their target was never the consumer – it was always the agent and the brokerage. They have always wanted to charge agents in order to put them in front of buyers and sellers.  Their entire site is set up as “bait” to acquire consumer information – phone numbers and email addresses – to sell to agents.

Checking out  the Zillow Premier Agents:

This week they proved my hypothesis correct.  Now, in addition to the pointless Zestimate they are promoting  the equally useless list of  Zillow Premier Agents to the consumer.  Why is the  list of preferred local experts useless?  Because if you can pay – literally ANYONE can claim to be a local expert on Zillow – so long as they are willing to pay for the privilege.  When I found out about the email (which I threw in the trash) I did a bit of research – and this is what I turned up..

  • First I checked the address of a condo complex where I do a goodly number of transactions.  The names of six agents popped up.  I checked the MLS for each of these agents for the past year. 5 of the six had not ONE transaction in the complex.  No active listings, no contracts, no solds as either a buyer’s or listing agent..no nothing. The sixth had one transaction under contract.   In fact, there were agents on that list I had never heard of before.  How does a list like this serve the public interest? It doesn’t.
  • I then went to two zip codes where I am active but not dominant in any way.  This was less specific in that in involved more than a single complex – but a town and a village.  I ran through a bunch of listings in one particular village and came up with the following:  I turned up 8 agents.   Half of these agents had no sales or listings over the course of the past year.  Nothing, notta, zippo….for four of these agents.  Two of the agents had one transaction over the past year and only the final two had a significant sales history in the area.
  • The town I studied didn’t fare any better. After viewing several listings, I turned up seven agents. Once again , four had no sales in the area over the past year  The agent who was labeled as an area “specialist”  had one sale under their belt. Another agent had participated in two sales over the past year.  Only one had a significant sales presence in the area.

How do you differentiate between the agents that had a goodly number of transactions and those who didn’t? You can’t.  In fact, using that criteria I could be Premier agent anywhere in the country – even if I had never set foot in that neighborhood  or even that state.

I don't blame the agents for doing this.  I think they feel they have to be visible or die.  But I have no intention of giving my hard-earned money to a lead aggregator.

To Search for Homes and for further information go to my website/blog with free home search at The Westchester View

I am always happy to answer your questions and you can speak to me directly on my moble phone: 914-374-5529.

 

© 2010 Ruthmarie G. Hicks - http://thewestchesterview.com - all rights reserved.

Comments (180)

Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#61 - Hi Teresa - In the eyes of the consumer - it IS about them - that was the point.

#62 - Hi Karen - I consider the value of advertising yourself on Zillow dubious - however, the issue for many agents will be that the format pushes the face of another agent on their listings.  You really have to look carefully to see that it is NOT that agent's listing.  That's a big problem.

#63 - Hi Ted - Thanks for stopping by.

#64 - Hi Daniel - funny isn't it!

#65 - Hi Bill - Insane isn't it.  What makes anyone think that a web site can evaluate a piece of property.  Does Zillow visit every house in the country?

#66 - Hi Mark - it only becomes necessary if enough people decide to shoot themselves in the foot.

#67 - Hi Patricia - thanks!

#68 - Hi John - My problem with them on AR is they come back with the same old crap answers over and over and over again. They never change their tune and don't even try to correct the problem.  They wouldn't be where they are if not for the zestimate.  So they aren't motivated to do anything about it.  The old listing that you have hanging around on Zillow is amazing. Talk about poor public relations and bad service.

#69 - Hi Dawn - that's really hilarious.  Do people try to get in to see the home?

#70 - Hi Jennifer - I hope this helps consumers and agents alike.  I'm not holding my breath though.

May 18, 2010 10:11 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#71 - Hi Susie - the Difficulty is that many will advertise - but wont use Zillow - if enough agents lose to business to Zillow - people will be forced on board.  The best solution is for agents to boycott the site. I hope enough of them do.

#72 - Hi Virginia - You pretty much sum it all up.  Alot of agents failed to get on board with an internet presence.  They are behind and worried - but this is not the best way to gain a presence.

#73 - Hi Stacia - Because we as agents LET them do this to us...sad but true.

#74 -  Hi Jim - there are no short-cuts to internet presence. I too am often frustrated by how much effort, money and time it takes.

#75 - Hi Eric - does it help drive traffic to YOUR site - or does it just drive traffic away from you so that you need them? Kind of like the chicken and egg...

#76 - Hi Courteny - Yeah - except now you either have to pay to play or others get credit for your listing efforts - I think you've been drinking the Kool Aide and now your an addict.  Maybe a 12 step program?

#77 - Hi Tracey - that's a good tactic - but then do you use Zillow to advertise yourself?   It would be difficult to do both.

#78 - Hi Joe - Why would becoming a premier agent help with this issue?

#79 - Hi Charles - Glad you found a way to make that work for you.

#80 - Hi Susan - Are you talking about agents that use Zillow for leads?

May 18, 2010 10:43 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#81 - Hi Mike - I wonder if it is area - dependent.

#82 - Hi Elchin - I'm glad you have the tools to prove Zillow wrong.  Way too many people take the Zestimate as gospel.  Interesting if thinking its so would actually make it so!

#83 - Hi Susan - Yep "Just $19!" here "Just $25!" there, "Just $50!"  It can add up to high 3 figures low 4 figures a month in just a flash!

#84 - Hi Joan -  That's the problem - they want them to get addicted and then they jack up the ante.

#85 - Hi Alan - Many of us are sick of it - in part we only have ourselves to blame.

#86 - Hi Cheron - Thank you for liking the blog.

#87 - Hi Laurie - I'm wondering if the agents who just paid up will have the same issues? A few people seem to do well with Zillow.

#88 - Hi Charita - I think many people feel they are in that same dilemma. I really don't want to be associated with something this inaccurate.

#89 - Hi Bob - All we can do is inform them.

#90 - Hi Laine - I'm glad you liked the blog - Go for it! with the rep!

 

May 18, 2010 11:04 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#91 - Hi Bryant - I agree that we all pay for leads in one way or the other. But I have to ask whether using a sit that misrepresents pricing so badly is a good idea.  You are fortunate in that they do not dominate your area.

#93- Hi Christianne - Some posters had some very good ideas about handling the objections that Zillow Zestimates produce.  I hope that helps.

#94 - Hi Mark - I blame NAR for this.  By the time I was an agent - that ship had already sailed.  I think a longer-term agent would be better at addressing at how this happened.

#95 - Hi Dana - This is a HUGE problem. Zillow and Trulia are sexy and crammed with info...unfortunately much of it is distorted and out and out incorrect.  What we need is ACCURATE AND SEXY...We also have to be able to control the data if we get lucky enough to produce such a site - which may be tricker still.

#96 - Hi John - that is one of things I tried to point out in the post - It has NOTHING to do with agent experience or quality. Only with the wallet. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

#97 - Hi Gabe - blogging helps.  I think everyone should write something about this issue.  We now have 3 blogs on this topic. Mine was reblogged 6 times....How about some more with a different twist?

#98 - Hi Rob - Thanks

#99 - Hi Emily - I think a lot of agents trea their hair.

 

May 18, 2010 11:14 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#100 - Hi Marzena - Most don't deliver - so many have said so!

#101 - Hi Jim - and the profit margin after the fees...

#102 - Hi Katerina - I had no idea they wanted a YEAR - OMG!!!! That's a lot of money.  You do business ethically and are a far better investment for any agent trying to gain a presence on the internet.  The difficulty is that many don't want to take the time to blog and work with social media. This is something you can't fake and those who are paying up may find out the hard way.  In that mess of agents in one town that I looked at  - I saw one agent who was well established had bought a spot. The brokerage and agent in question had been more than a little behind the curve in getting smart with web sites.  I guess they were afraid NOT to do it.  But now this agent is mixed up in the jumble of agents that haven't done one transaction in that town in over a year.  Crazy.

#103 - Hi Larry - wouldn't if have been great if you could have convinced a buyer, a bank and an APPRAISER that becuase "Zillow says so - it is so!"

#104 - Hi Mike - Why on EARTH is it acceptable to have an entity confuse the public in this way.  The difficulty here is that it extends beyond an individual agent.  Look what happened in Denver based on Zillow's  inaccurate data.  The difficulty is that the notion that if "Zillow says so - it must be true" has entered the public consciousness.  The capacity of Zillow to do great harm under these circumstances is a real issue.  Eventually there will be lawsuits - and sellers and buyers a like will have a good case.  Home values are not a game.  If a third party site never hired by the seller sees fit to parade around with "Zestimates" that are as accurate as a crap shoot and it ends up costing the public money - they have the right to - and SHOULD sue.

#105 - Hi Jim - I don't know how much they are asking.  But feed this monster and they will only want MORE later.

#106 - Hi Chris - even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

#107 - Hi Flavia - This isn't a game - real people can get hurt.  They don't seem to care, but there it is.

#108 - Hi Tyler - I agree.

#109 - Hi David - this issue has invaded every aspect of our industry. Agents are not alone.

#110 - Hi Krista - The difficulty is that Gen X & Y don't want an expert. They  believe they have enough data at their fingertips to be experts on their own. The difficulty with that is that much of the information they have is not accurate.

 

May 18, 2010 11:32 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#111 - Hi Paul - It's all about clicks and eyeballs...unfortunately the public doesn't want their fantasy disrupted by facts.

#112 - Hi Shanna - Thanks.

#113 - Do you think that anyone can stop a hungry agent from being a piggy? Zillow could set some standards - they chose not to.

#115 - Hi Katheryn - it does make life a lot harder...for no good reason.

#116 - Hi Carla - They could do a lot more to promote agents and accurate CMA's - they have chosen to do what is best for them and not for the consumer or thier clients - the agents.

#117 - Hi Cheryl - The disclaimer is very hard to find - that's a problem.

#119 - Hi Dawn - I wouldn't pay - but if you get a few for free - why not?

 

May 18, 2010 11:41 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#120 -Hi Ron - We already have enough middle men.  WE are middle men.  Now we've got middle men for middle men.  This is not providing a good service. That's the bottom line.

#123 - Hi Tom - It would be nice to be able to scratch this sort of thing away!

#124 - Hi Larry - You have more patience than me!

#125 - Hi Greg - The lawsuit is going to be very interesting.

#126 - Hi Bob - the store was given away before I was in this business.

#127 - Hi Nathan - they are a publicists dream - and its all about perception over reality.

#128 - Hi Ross - if they found me on-line - why do I need help being "found?"

#129 - Hi Vickie - Good for you!

#131 - Hi Tamara - that has been very annoying to me too. NO accountablilty at all - and this does harm people.

 

May 18, 2010 11:52 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#132 - Hi Greg - I'm not sure of those numbers, but that makes sense.

#133 - Hi Erica - its interesting that the MOST inaccurate site has captured the public imagination the most.  Sad.

#135 - Hi Andres - Why not? Isn't Zillow a true appraiser?

#136 - Hi Debbie - You are fortunate. And it is true - its all the same deal.

#137/138 - Hi Adam - $850 a MONTH !!! YIKES!!!! Noooooooo Waaaaaaay! That's INSANE. That's over $10k a year!  I agree that there is some irony to the fact that I wrote this right after Rain Camp.  I wasn't there as I am on the east coast.

#139 - Hi Myra - Given the price quoted above you should be able to opt out.

#140 - Hi Rob - I'm a bit surprised that they haven't turned up.

 

 

May 18, 2010 12:03 PM
J. Philip Faranda
Howard Hanna Rand Realty - Yorktown Heights, NY
Associate Broker / Office Manager

I give Zillow credit sometimes, but it hinders as much or more than it helps. I have a real problem with their COO being ok with strategic defaults. 

May 18, 2010 12:13 PM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#141 - Hi Joan - The public is really being fooled on this one.

#142 - Hi Lawrence - It is a relevent topic for an agent who is on-line.

#143 - Hi Judy - I have had one sale from Trulia - I used to post some of my blogs there - Perhaps I should while its still free - as long as the bulk of the blog is published on my own site.

#144 - Hi Lane - Of course that's the big problem.  We are paying them so they can outrank us on search engines. How twisted is that?

#145 - Hi Sharon - Your broker was right!  I too feel a tad vindicated ....When Spencer compared Realtor.com to Zillow I wrote back the following - just two days before the "Premier agent" email was rolled out:

Spencer,

I am no more a fan of Realtor.com than of zillow.  BOTH of you have shown yourselves to be pretty much useless.  In order to be useful, you need to  perform useful service for the agent/broker or consumer.   But your sites really don't do that.  So at the end of the day both of you are merely middle men trying to stuff your pockets with a slice of each transaction.  Realtor.com treats the agent like a money cow.  You are trying to find a way to treat the agent like a money cow. It's the same-old, same-old in a different guise.

I guess they finally found their way....

#146 - Hi Christine - They are 100% bottom line.

#147 - Hi Virginia - I have a great idea - let's find articles about Zillow Zestimates and write a post about the issues using ALL of those links! Now that would give a lot of individuals Google support AND cause the blogs involved and the sites they are on to rank.

#148 - Blogging works over TIME.  I have had success blogging, but little business success on Facebook.  It took me 9 months to close a transaction and about 18 months to really start generating signficant business. I find people have been reading me for over a year before they call.

#149 - Hi Gary - I do spend a significant amount of time blogging, but that is very different than  buying a placement. If done RIGHT blogging IS lead generation. If done correctly, it can't be done without market knowledge or insight. If you can write what I write - you KNOW what you are doing.  I won't go door-to-door and I wont' cold-call. Because I hate it when people do that to me.  Anyone knocks on my door - I set my largest dog on them. His knickname is "80 lbs of Death."  I feel strongly that pull marketing is more effective for Gen X and Y.

#150 - Hi Roland - My listings are on there too -because they go there automatically.  I'm not happy about it, but I think some of the bigger brokerages should just STOP automatically submitting their listings.

 

 

 

May 18, 2010 12:25 PM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#151 - Hi Tina - I don't think they realize what fire they are playing with. Eventually someone will sue -perhaps in a class action.  Real people are hurt by these numbers.  Zillow may become a victim of their own success.  Once successful enough to be quoted widely and TRUSTED in spite of the flawed numbers - they could sow the seeds of their own destruction. Because when that popular and that trusted they have a bigger capacity to cause harm to individual buyers and sellers.  They are trusted, so therefore the wrong numbers are believed, and the home doesn't sell or takes months to sell while vacant or goes into foreclosure in part becuase of an off the walls Zestimate.  Think someone won't sue for that? They can and they will - some day.  So maybe they will bite the dust....

#152 - Hi Gene - Oh Wow! read my comment above!  I wrote it before I read yours....

#153 - Hi Kathleen - The difficulty is that the disclaimers are so hidden.  they need to CAN the zestimates.

#154 - Hi Lisa - thanks for stopping by.

#156 - Hi Jirius - I keep fighting with more classes on SEO....

May 18, 2010 12:32 PM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

#170 - Hi Phil - Mised you entirely.  There are problems with them - no doubt - and the zestimates are a real problem. I didn't know the COO was OK with strategic default. Do you have a link for that?

May 18, 2010 12:36 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Ruthmarie:  Of course it's the agent.  Sell, sell sell.  I don't like them in the first place, so it won't work with me... LOL.

And yes... he... the COO... was right smack dab in the middle of a strategic default post.  He said it was just fine to walk away.  He called it a "business decision."  I threw a pretty sharp comment back at him... and I don't think he liked it... LOL.

May 18, 2010 05:48 PM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

Hi Karen Anne,

They want us to buy, buy, buy....But some of the prices quoted in the post were mind-boggling....

May 18, 2010 06:03 PM
Damon Gettier
Damon Gettier & Associates, REALTORS- Roanoke Va Short Sale Expert - Roanoke, VA
Broker/Owner ABRM, GRI, CDPE

Ruthmarie, I agree with you on Zillow's intent.  My personal feeling is that they are blood sucking leaches who have every intention of inserting themselves between the agent and the client for a fee.

We as a whole are dumb enough to continue to let it happen.  REALTOR.com is dumb enough to not come up with something competitive and we are even dumber that we allow REALTOR.com to allow us to pay for that privilege!

May 19, 2010 11:08 AM
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

Hi Damon,

Did you see the pricing quoted in the thread....For the sake of the agents that signed up - it had better work.  That's over $10k a year.  That's INSANE.  Very, very risky move.

May 19, 2010 04:03 PM
Jim Hale
ACTIONAGENTS.NET - Eugene, OR
Eugene Oregon's Best Home Search Website

They are asking a roughly $125 per month for Premier placement on a zip code here.  That's over $1400 per year ,... or about one fourth of a single-side commission on one transaction at the local median price.

May 20, 2010 08:34 AM
John Elwell
CENTURY 21 Bill Nye Realty, Inc. - Zephyrhills, FL
You Deserve a Full-Time Agent, Not Reduced Results

Strange how no one from the company has come on to try to explain themselves, like they usually do. Could it be that explanations are ringing hollow? Usually one or the other of the reps chimes in to try to tell us how great their site is and why we are idiots for not embracing it.

May 22, 2010 02:38 PM
Anonymous
Tom

Wow! You guys and gals are ruthless on Zillow... and many of you get your bread and butter from Zillow... How many of you know that Zillow owns the "Active Rain" that without many of you could not eat.  I see several say that I dont' have to give Zillow my money and I don't ... That is bull... you pay Zillow every month .. that is how you got so many pages on this very Active Rain.  Anyway one thing I do like about Zillow is the honor the constitution.. the one about free speech... I know may forums that instantly remove any negative commets about them.... So please as bad as they are they feed a lot of us..LOL.

You'all play nice now.

Tom

 

 

Mar 09, 2013 03:01 AM
#180
Ruthmarie Hicks
Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605 - White Plains, NY

Zillow has not helped me. IF anything it has hurt my business  because I don't play ball with them.  I'll take what I'm forced to as long as its free, but I wont pay them one red cent.  And the costs that they incur eventually will be passed along to the consumer becuase in the end, the consumer has to pay for our marketing.  We are in this to make a living after all. So if someone is forcing me to use them and they are gobbling up my marketing money, I have to charge more.   I don't us AR that much anymore because its become more money grubbing.  I have my own blog site that gets a great deal of traffic.  It actually produces QUALITY content and not the trash Zillow and Trulia put out there.  Most productive agents make money in SPITE of Zillow and Trulia, not because of them. 

Mar 09, 2013 11:21 AM