Let me first say that I cut my teeth working for a broker who was a big investor and I still to this day work with investor clientèle. I am an investor myself.
However, I do not recruit real estate investors as I do those buying a home, and if you ever heard what I say to neophyte investors seeking my advice you might think I don't want to make a sale. You know what? I probably don't. The risks are significant, the headaches are considerable, and the stakes are high. Consider this: If you invest $40,000 in the stock market and the investment tanks, you are out $40,000. Bad enough. Pretty high "tuition in life." However, if you sink $40,000 into an investment property and it tanks, you can also be stuck with a $200,000 liability headache that dwarfs your initial investment with tenants, a lender, neighbors and the code officer on your tail until men land on Mars.
There is not one blog post I have authored out of hundreds where I encourage newbies to become investors. It's not part of my acumen. There are no do-overs in real estate. Mistakes are life-alteringly expensive, and I have seen too many new investors get hurt or ruined to tread there lightly. So if I am working with an investor, you can bet they are either experienced or very, very forewarned.
SO: all that said, I do find it more than a little ironic when I get a call or show an investment property to someone who seems more interested in telling me what a bad investment real estate is than gather facts about the property they contacted me about. It would be like calling a stock broker and preaching to him about the volatility of the market or the moral ramifications of selling short. Why waste each other's time? I have more respect for the losers who send anonymous emails knocking a place or leave wise ass voice mails than a slob who spends my time and gasoline.
Real investors have little to no energy on Alan Greenspan, the European monetary crisis, TV cashflow infomercials, or other coffee talk when they evaluate property, and they also understand that they aren't going to live there. Therefore, old kitchens, sloped driveways and other primary residence type concerns have less weight. And they value my time as much as they value their own.
The almost universal common thread I see in smart real estate investing is that the investor loves the numbers more than the property. It is never highly leveraged, and either bought right, purchased with a strong down-payment, or both. The numbers have to work. Unless the would-be investor is cognizant of these rather rudimentary fundamentals, blabbing about what a crummy investment real estate is or how out of date a kitchen they'll never use happens to be, they are wasting everyone's time.
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56 Comments on If Real Estate is Such a Bad Investment Why Are We Talking?
Interesting discussion here. I have someone who has contacted me from outside the US to invest in a condo. He wants a particular return that he can't get with the condo fees, which I've tried to show him via my own homegrown spreadsheet. Would any of you that more experience in the investing world be willing to share how you analyze the numbers of a property?
Josette
Interesting post Philip. As I scanned the responses looking for the correct information, Karen #36 said it correctly. Carefully analyzed and carefully leveraged investments are the ones that perform best (from an investment standpoint).
There are only two types of real estate purchases, those for personal or business USE and those as INVESTMENT. The line of delineation is clear and the use of leverage is clear to the true investor that knows what they are doing.
You can still make a killing in real estate, you just have to cautiously know what you are doing. Not everyone can do it, even like the stock market. Do it yourself with your own ideas & you loose your shirt, your pants, your family's pants and your future grandchildrens toys.
Philip,
Interesting post. You do have to wonder the folks that handle stuff like this?
Investments are all about the ROI - if folks get too emotional about it, it's not an investment, it's a personal home purchase.
All the best, Michelle
Oh such a great post....and I get so annoyed at the ones who want instant everything! IF you are going to invest make sure you can afford to invest...cash is best....or a huge down payment...not just the minimum....in our area it was touted as the number one place to invest in 2005....many did thinking they would flip the properties...it didn't happen and now last month over 70% of our market was short sales or REO's....not all from owner occupied....most from investors!
Return on investment is the key and nothing else!
It's always an accounting equation.
As a current landlord and a former investor/renovator/flipper, it's a good thing you're in New York and not California.
The nature of the beast out here is that the State is a tenant-friendly state, not landlord friendly. So if you have an old kitchen, a sloped driveway, and other things that are or could be unsafe; and you don't warn, caution, warn, caution, warn, and caution your tenants about the dangers of old kitchens and sloped driveways; and your tenant has an accident resulting in injury, death, or damage to their property (such as the car), you can be held liable. It's the reason why I only own one home now in California; everything else is in Texas, a much more investor-friendly state.
THanks for the good read.
I enjoyed it.
Patricia/Seacoast NH
Russel, we have the same liability happy people in Albany as you have in Sacramento. Very tenant friendly in NY.
I got my real estate license because I am an investor. I found it hard to find an agent who was knowledgeable in foreclosures, sheriff sales and investment homes. I knew they were out there but I tended to not find them when I looked at listings in other states. We are very careful in our choices in homes we buy . We do not take chances and we always have an exit plan in place if it is needed. That means the numbers have to be good and the money is made at the time of closing. I am glad I choose real estate over putting my money in the stock market. I love not having to go to work 9-5. And I love passive income.
A great post for would be investors. Most investors I have worked with keep an eye to the local market and set a time frame for fixing, listing & renting. They evaluate the the time & money to do minimum repair (include man-hour wages if they own their own crew); what is a reasonable time to sell before repair loan kicks in; what amount of dollars will the market bear if house turned into rental (will rent off set the monthly PITI andhow much do I have to make up difference). Investment is not for the novice or for one with limited income (more cash; less loan money). Some have made it work during the boom but now are facing foreclosure and loosing the investment property & their personal home by over extending credit because they didn't think: What if ...
Food for thought, but I don't think a blanket statement about investing in real estate addresses the many nuances and situations. For experienced real estate investors looking at a buy and hold strategy I think the risks are fewer. I do understand your comment about not encouraging newbies to become real estate investors.
Very true. I think there is good money to be made in real estate, but it is a hard work and never as easy as on late night television.
Spot on! I couldn't have said it better myself... so I think you're about to get yet another re-blog! =)
I find many times inexperienced investors don't want to be perceived and not know the business. Boy do they get burnt. They don't listened because the have been to some nothing down, dog and pony show and know it all.
Well written blog.
Thank you for sharing
Amazing how many people call you up and then talk about the negativity of the market. Real investors vs speculators - the speculators have been run out mostly.
I like your thought process Phil! The DIY, flip this house craze got a lot of people into a lot of trouble with speculation rather than real long term investment.
Real estate has been good to me Philip. Last month I made my last mortgage payment on a property and in December I'll burn another mortgage. It'll be a couple years on a few more. I'm pretty conservative. In hind sight, if I just loosened up a bit, I'd have more properties. Debt is not evil. Negative cash flow is.
I love high leveraged homes when the numbers WORK, problem is most do not know to look for the right numbers.
Good post & Good luck.