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"Is That To Code?" My Answer: Does It Matter?

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

That was the question my clients asked me when I pointed out the dangers to small children inherent at their home inspection.  This patio sold the house!  It is beautiful.  Now don't get me wrong!  I grew up in the 50's and 60's.  We ate asbestos and lead, rolled in radon pits and swam in creeks and golf course lakes while drinking the water.  And I never had a life jacket when I boated or went swimming in the Chesapeake Bay, truthfully, when I was 3 and 4 years old!  I have pictures to prove that!

But today, this would be considered a bit dangerous.  I don't know when it was built and frankly don't know what the code would have said years ago.  But really, does it matter?

If there was a code in place, it likely would have required a guardrail on any wall higher than 30".  The wall on the left under the deck is 33" high and beside the stairs 42".

Depending on the year built it may have required a handrail going up the stairs. Some of the stairs are 10" high.

Notice the pool on the upper patio?  Kids certainly play here.

Kids love to walk on top of walls.

Kids don't worry about a fall.  I know I didn't.  I was a monkey and would have LOVED those walls!

It may be that the people called the County when they first built the patio and asked, "Do we need a permit to put in a patio?"  To which the answer may have been, "No, not for a patio."

And maybe they failed to mention the walls and stairs.  Or they weren't in the original plans.  So there would have been no County follow up.

Again, looking to the right of the above photo, we have many stairs, without a handrail.  In this instance one really might be necessary, not only to help people up and down the stairs, but to prevent a fall 48".

And look at the wall beside the play set.  At its highest point it is 72" high.

There are other areas too with high walls not pictured here.

Now, are the sellers likely to want to put in guardrails and handrails?  Of course not.  They purposely built this without them.  Such things would destroy the ambiance and views!

And the expense of installing rails would be very high, I imagine.

Their answer to such a request would be, "We have small children and have lived here for xx years!  We haven't had any problems!"

My recommendation:   I think my clients will buy the house anyway, and maybe putting in handrails on the four stair cases.  They did mention flower pots along the high walls to prevent climbing and walking.  That's en excellent idea!  This is one of those gray zones that people have to make their own decisions about!  As for me, I thought the place was gorgeous the way it is now!  But that is just me!  Okay, maybe a few flower pots!

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(95)

Evelyn Johnston
Friends & Neighbors Real Estate - Elkhart, IN
The People You Know, Like and Trust!

It is without a doubt a beautiful yard, but I don't really thing handrails or flowerpots are going to distract from it.  I personally would be more comfortable holding onto something...

Jun 23, 2010 04:56 PM
Terry Chenier
Homelife Glenayre Realty - Mission, BC

Ray,

Code today would require quard rails for sure. Anything over 3 risers needs rails.

Jun 23, 2010 05:34 PM
Terry Chenier
Homelife Glenayre Realty - Mission, BC

Ray,

I forgot. Today steps have to be equal and within perameters. Only the first and last riser can be out by an 1/8". These will probably grandfather in.

Jun 23, 2010 05:36 PM
Dorie Dillard Austin TX
Coldwell Banker Realty ~ 512.750.6899 - Austin, TX
NW Austin ~ Canyon Creek and Spicewood/Balcones

Good morning Ray,

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.  I think the flower pots are a great idea and rails on the steps! Lovely yard that I'm sure your buyers will enjoy!

Jun 23, 2010 09:25 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Rob - in the end, I don't think it matters to my buyers.

I know Reuben.  We just observe and report.  And I pointed it all out to them!

Which may be where these sellers are coming from Lane!  And I agree with all that.

Steve - it's all minimum standard and common sense.  The common sense thing lacks sometimes.

Evelyn - at least on those lower stairs, I agree with you.

 

Jun 23, 2010 09:45 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Terry - I am pretty sure the rail and stair height rules applied when this all was built.  But likely it has never been looked at professionally until now.

Dorie - you are right, all that would be a good idea.

 

I'm glad you both stopped by....   Jay

Jun 23, 2010 09:47 PM
Aaron Seekford
Arlington Realty, Inc. - Arlington, VA
Ranked Top 1% Nationwide 703-836-6116

Great explanation, Jay. On another note, I've really enjoyed your blogs lately. Congrats again on Fox 5! Hope to see you on there again soon.

Jun 24, 2010 03:13 AM
Revats Real EstateVirtual Assistance & Technology Services
REVATS.net - Raleigh, NC

As someone with small children, I would either not buy it or I would regretfully install rails at least where there is a patio and stairs. In the end my children are more important than the asthetics and I wouldn't care what minimum standard the code allowed for.

I would probably not bother with just the wall part though...flower pots would be a great idea there. Although they would be mighty tempting to knock over just to watch them splat I'm sure.

Unfortunately I tend to be a clutz and if anyone fell off the patio onto the lower level it would probably be me! lol

--Kim

Jun 24, 2010 05:01 AM
Michelle Gibson
Hansen Real Estate Group Inc. - Wellington, FL
REALTOR

Jay - Gorgeous patio and the right handrails on the stairs might not take too much away from the look if it's done right.  I guess it boils down to personal preference, my children are older, so I would probably leave it as-is.

Jun 24, 2010 05:11 AM
Tamara Dorris
Master Your Market Real Estate Coaching - Carmichael, CA

Thanks Jay, I am reposting this now for my localism blog...it's so clearly a question that comes up and often just doesn't matter.

However, there was that ONE time, where the owners had added on without relocating the outside faucet or electric panel...they were both right smack dab in the master bedroom....stucco wall and all!

 

Thanks

Tamara

Jun 24, 2010 06:57 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Aaron - thank you for those nice words!  I would love to be on there again!

Kim - you and I agree - it will boil down to the buyers and what they want to do.  I don't know what they will do though!

Michelle - the whole thing was very nicely done and hard to convey in a couple of photos.  I think I would too.

Jun 24, 2010 06:58 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thank you Tamara.  You are right, sometimes on remodeling people don't think ahead!

Jun 24, 2010 07:00 AM
Virginia Hepp - Mesquite NV REALTOR
Desert Gold Realty - Mesquite NV Homes For Sale - Mesquite, NV
Mesquite NV Homes and Neighborhoods - Search MLS

Jay - wonderful pics of that lovely backyard.

I guess I am lucky to be alive - I grew up with 9 brothers and sisters - no seatbelts - one car.  Cozy.

How about some wrought iron fencing - goes great with rock?

 

Jun 24, 2010 07:46 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Virginia - I think the buyers will decide the right thing for them.  There are many good-looking things they could do.

Jun 24, 2010 08:23 AM
Damon Gettier
Damon Gettier & Associates, REALTORS- Roanoke Va Short Sale Expert - Roanoke, VA
Broker/Owner ABRM, GRI, CDPE

Breaking bones adds character to children.  Every kid should be in the hospital a couple of times while growing up.....before long good climbing trees will have to have pillows installed under them.  It is amazing that American's ever survived all the atrocities you listed above...but we did...and we did it without Anti-lock Brakes, Seatbelts, Airbags, Smoke Detectors, Auotmatic Sprinklers, Training Wheels, Helmets, Knee-Shin-Elbow pads, Etc.....

Jun 24, 2010 09:14 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Damon - HA!  I knew the names of the doctors and nurses in the emergency room!  And if I had ever worn a helmet while riding my bike I would have been beaten up!

Jun 24, 2010 09:20 AM
Roger D. Mucci
Shaken...with a Twist 216.633.2092 - Euclid, OH
Lets shake things up at your home today!

Jay..........I like your answer..........simple and to the point.  Does it matter?  If it's an issue, move on, if there's an alternative, work with it...........isn't too complicated.

Jun 24, 2010 10:50 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Yes, Roger, and I think they are moving on and will decide what to do about it.  I loved the yard.

Jun 25, 2010 12:17 AM
Dan Quinn
The Eric Steart Group of Long & Foster Real Estate - Silver Spring, MD
Dan Quinn

Hi Jay - I did many of the same things as you did.  I am 52 and still in one piece.  Glad to hear you were able to survive as well. 

What a great wall to jump off of if you were a kid.  Just think, if you add a rail, how much higher the jump would be if you were standing on top of the rail before you jumped.  The rail could also be used for skateboarding and backflips as well!

Jul 16, 2010 12:58 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Dan - the monkeys survive.  The catered to in life don't seem to do as well!

Jul 16, 2010 01:30 AM