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Strategic Defaults and Strategic Short Sales- Do The Moral Police Get To Decide?

By
Real Estate Agent with The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services 13253167-SA00


There are many posts being stirred up as emotions arise from this debate over a moral duty to pay your mortgage payments to your lender


Lydia Puller wrote a post here that sparked some heated comments to which Michael Lissack then responded. Lenn's tattoo post brings it home to point out how utterly ridiculous it is to pass moral judgment and force people to pay their house payments. 

Strategic Defaults Moral PoliceIt never seems to fail that short sale posts and strategic default posts bring out the moral police. 

I have noticed that many of the same people who scream that if you have the money to pay your house payments and choose not to should be punished or forced to pay up are also the same people who come rushing to the defense of homeowners who lose their jobs or get relocated because those are 'hardships'. 

In fact, I have read comments from many agents who will not even consider helping a seller with a strategic short sale. 

When you make a moral statement such as this- you must then ask yourself- at what point is this a hardship or not? Who would be the judge and jury about whether you can afford to pay or not? 

Case in point: 

What if you get called by a homeowner to go over his options? He is now in default. He is no longer making his mortgage payments. You go through your short sale qualifications with him. He tells you he lost his job a few months ago and now can not find one. 
So you say, oh my gosh, I feel so sorry for you! You poor thing! You lost your job. 

You can do a short sale, you pass the hardship test. 

Well, why did you come to the assumption that just because he lost his job he has a hardship? Because that is one of the reasons that is readily accepted. 

But if you are going to tell one person they can not do a short sale because they can pay but this guy- he lost his job so he can get one? 

Are you going to really call his boss to check why he lost his job? What if he is a total abusive jerk and got fired. Then went to collect unemployment. He proves to you and his lender that he lost his job because he is getting unemployment. What if he has no intentions of getting another job and after he lives in his house as long as he can, he just plans to move in with his mother. 

But are you going to investigate? You should if you are the moral police! If you are in the position to judge who is worthy of a short sale and who is not, then you should use the same measuring stick for all. 


If you say no to one person because you believe they are morally wrong for not paying then you should be applying that same standard through all your dealings with all your clients. 

Is it not at the end of the day, lack of personal responsibility the reason for most hardships? Of course, because most anyone can change the course of their life. That is a tough statement but saying those who do have the money are the ones that should be punished is just as harsh. 

So who are we, you, the government or any lender the moral police to decide whether someone can do a strategic short sale or not? 

There are all kinds of reasons people can't, won't or don't pay their mortgage payments and that has happened since the very beginning of loans. 

This is a business decision not a moral obligation. If you want it to be a moral decision for you, that is your decision for your own situation but not for others. 

We do strategic short sales. We are presently listing 4 properties owned by an investor. They are all upside down. They all need to be sold. This investor will contribute to the kitty. They will also be 1099'd and the loss will be treated as income according to the IRS. It is still better in her situation than to just walk away. But that is her decision. Not mine, not yours. 

And why would we NOT help her???? 

If a homeowner or an investor chooses NOT to pay their mortgage payments that is a decision between them and their lender. There is nothing within their note or promise to pay that says that if they get relocated or they fall upon hard times they don't have to pay but if they have the money they have to pay! 

Take out your note and your mortgage instrument for your loan on your house and read it. We challenge you to show us where in either your note or your mortgage documents it says that you are being forced to pay your mortgage. I have read many mortgage instruments and no where does it say that there is a moral obligation for you to pay or that it is right or a moral duty for you to pay.

It is each borrower's choice to pay or not to pay. If you pay you keep your house. If you don't pay, you don't get to keep your house because you used your house as collateral. It is the borrower's choice to ruin their credit or not. It is the borrower's choice to go into bankruptcy or not. It is no one else's decision. The consequences are between the remedies the lender has set forth in the note to repay the loan and the defensed the borrower may wish to enlist an attorney to bring up before a judge in the state of Florida. 

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Copyright © By Katerina Gasset 2010 *Strategic Defaults and Strategic Short Sales- Do The Moral Police Get To Decide?*


 

 

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In real estate we service Utah County, Salt Lake County, Wasatch County, Tooele County. This includes many towns and cities. Some of which are: Provo, Orem, Salt Lake City, Draper, Springville, Spanish Fork, Payson, Lehi, American Fork, Vineyard, Saratoga Springs, Eagle Mountain, Pleasant Grove, and more. 

Katerina Gasset is a real estate agent who is also a digital marketing strategist, website designer and consultant for real estate brokerages, agents, entrepreneurs and small business owners. She is also the owner of Get It Done For Me Virtual Services. 

Katerina is a Certified AI Marketing Specialist. She can help you with ChatGPT, Content at Scale, Neuronwriter, prompting, and many other AI tools. 

She develops products and online courses to empower real estate agents to reach their marketing, SEO, social media and branding goals. Katerina Gasset is a blogger, author, podcaster, and keynote speaker.  

Text Katerina with your name + number to work with her:

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Comments(91)

Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Fernando- Thank you for the reblog! I appreciate it:) 

Tchaka- Thanks for your kudos. 

Susan- you are right, the sooner we get rid of it we can stop the bleeding. As long as it is prolonged there is no  bandaid that can cure it without going through the pain and then regrowth. People don't want to hear that and more so they don't want to go through it. 

Jul 06, 2010 06:14 PM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Rhonda- Comment #23-  Thank you for sharing your story and for letting Anna know she is not alone. May God bless you and be with you as you fight to keep your home. I pray for you and your children. May they also understand all the sacrifice you are making for them to have a life and stay in their home. Keep up the good fight! 

Jul 06, 2010 06:17 PM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Bryant- Thank you for sharing another success story about the strategic shorts we can get approved in our great state of Florida. Why should one man have the privilege and another man not- we can not judge motives or even the very right to or not to. We can choose who we work with. We don't have to do short sales if we don't want to. I am finding more people who have given up and walked away because some agent or attorney told them they are not qualified to do a short sale. 

Jul 06, 2010 07:00 PM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Lenn- I am getting to write another one that you are going to have a field day with! Thanks for the reblog! 

Jul 06, 2010 07:01 PM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Jenna- Sorry, long day of coaching and I had to be in the 'mood' to retort to your comment. While there are many things I do not agree with in your comment many of those are beyond the scope of this post and would take me many more posts to explain. 

Suffice it to say- the rich are not bad people. The rich provide the jobs. Did you ever get hired by a poor person? Did a poor person ever sign your paycheck? We know a lot of wealthy people. I know one client of ours who is also a very good friend and a member of my church who owns over 20 McDonalds restaurants which happen to be one of the businesses that is doing very good in this or any economy. He lives very well. He and his wife have 8 children who are all mostly grown and half are married and have their own children now, their children and my children grew up together after I moved here to Florida. He employs A LOT of people who could not get a job anywhere else! He does a huge service to our communities through employing people. They have  A LOT of money, pay 10% of all their profits to tithing, brought their children into the business with profit sharing, etc, they provide hours and hours of charity work and money HAS a lot to do with their ability to do all this good. 

Hoover and FDR hated rich people, hung them out to dry and nearly destroyed our country doing so. You can not steal from one man to give to another. 

 

Now, back to the original substance of this post- 

Stealing a TV is a totally different thing that walking away from your house. You see, when you steal a TV it was never yours to take in the first place. 

When you walk away from your house, it is an agreement between you and your lender. Just like buying a car. If you buy a car and no longer make the payments on it, they come and repossess the car. That was the agreement. That is the same secured agreement you have when you get a loan to buy your house. 

There is nothing in your mortgage instrument that says you are obligated to your neighbors. There is nothing that you ever signed that says that you have to protect your neighbor's equity. 

That is not your moral obligation either. 

I am not talking about a society making rules based on the ten commandments. I am talking about a mortgage instrument. 

I am also stating that if what gives you the right to say one person is allowed to do a short sale while another should not go unpunished. Especially as real estate agents I find it appalling that agents have the audacity to tell a seller that they can not do a short sale because they have money or don't have a hardship. If an agent does not want to work with strategic shorts than refer them to someone instead of being one of the reasons they give up and just walk away. 

I would much rather that strategic walk aways do short sales but when agents give wrong information out then are the ones to blame those sellers too? WOW, that is awfully harsh. 

If the society wants to make a law that no one can do a short sale and no one is allowed to walk away from their mortgage- that is one thing, the same across the board. But don't play favorites. 

Passing moral judgment on one person and not another- where is the morality in that? 

My post brings up the fact that how in the heck do you know someone is not a free loader gaming the system anyhow? So that person gets to but a doctor who is delivering babies all day long is too rich and so much be chained to their property for better of for worse? Where is the morality in that? 

This is what really gets me to rant- how are any of us the judge of another's reasons and what makes one reason better than another? 

And who would decide that a person has the ability to pay their payments and what constitutes the ability to pay? Because they have a job? Because they have no children? Because they have a dog? Because they make over a certain amount of income? What if they have cancer and make a lot of money, can they then do a strategic walk away? Would that be a hardship then? 

Who would be the one to decide? You the neighbors or some other committee? And what qualifications do they have to have? Maybe the local mob can just go tar and feather those that choose to walk away? 

Jul 06, 2010 07:22 PM
Venancio Gonzalez
Windermere Kelso/Longview - Longview, WA
Longview WA Real Estate Broker - 360-751-4001

Hello Katerina - I have to admit, I'm not an expert on short sales and I hope my question doesn't seem silly but my understanding is that a hard ship letter is included in all short sale packets explaining the hard ship or reason sellers can not continue to make the payments. If you don't my sharing, what is your explanation/excuse when a seller is still are able to make the payment and want out of the commitment? Thanks in advance.

Jul 06, 2010 08:43 PM
Jenna Dixon
Momentum Real Estate Group LLC - Marietta, GA
55 & Over | New Constructions | Horse Farms

DISCLAIMER: all references to the word YOU do not refer to any one person, but the proverbial you.  I fully respect Katerina and Nestor and the other commenters on this post.  This is not a clash of individuals, rather a clash of ideas.

Ok, I guess I am not going to get anywhere with this.   It is not about rich and poor, religion, or contracts.  It is certainly not about a return to royal rule. 

I explained very clearly that I was only talking about strategic defaults in that the property owner could afford to continue making payments (in their own estimation & the banks, not mine) and CHOOSE to walk away BECAUSE they have lost value in the property and no longer see it as worth the amount they paid.  But, everyone wants to go back and argue that I am trying to judge who can or cannot afford their obligations, even though I clearly indicate otherwise. 

If everyone is operating in their own self-interest, which I think is clearly the case, you might want to think about what happens if & when the trend of strategic defaults and strategic short sales catch on.  And you had best believe that Fannie Mae sets the pace and the others will follow. 

You are very likely to run out of buyers for all of those listings.  As the banks clamp down even tighter on lending guidelines, who are you going to sell the house too? 

And let's not even think about how prices will continue to plummet.  If all the underwater homeowners decide to walk away, then you can use all those abandoned BANK BUILDINGS for...I don't know, what would you like to use them for?  You thought the bailouts were big on the first go round, WHOA NELLY!

Who wants to lend money to someone IN GOOD FAITH during an upward swing of strategic walkaways?  Maybe you do, since you clearly understand that it's just a business decision and no moral obligation to keep your word is involved.  I'm sure you won't be upset about losing your investment of cash in exchange for a trashed out house.

And since you brought it up: let's go ahead and default on the car loans too, since that is just another contract...and that's not an appreciating asset.  Never has been.  And we quit paying on the house, so the credit is already ruined, who cares?  Yep, let GMAC or Honda Credit come take the car back.  We will just use that $5000 we saved not making house payments to go buy another car.  You thought the bailouts were big on the first go round, WHOA NELLY!

Regarding the rich & the poor.  I like rich people.  The question is, when the crap hits the fan, do they like the "non-rich" people.  Nope, they can just build higher walls around their isolated compounds and watch the REST OF US wallowing in the mess that we created because we didn't GET THAT in order to have an orderly and well performing society we had to DO OUR PART.

I hope that we all don't get stuck in the mud at the bottom of the slippery slope.

Jul 07, 2010 02:33 AM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Venancio- The hardship letter is sent in as an explanation letter of their particular reasons for short selling the property. Also, when I am referring to hardships I am referring what the 'norm' for those are but anyone that has to do a short sale is having a hardship- the market and depleting their bank accounts no matter how much is 'considered' to be too much because we sell the banks on the fact that one day that won't be there at the rate they are going. But for investors they prepare a profit and loss statement for all the properties they own. 

We usually have to escalate these types of files to our contacts at the different lenders, depending on who the lender is. Most lenders don't care and don't even really look at the package- they look at the HUD and their financial work sheets. Then they counter with cash to close, etc. We then negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. :) Katerina

Jul 07, 2010 03:47 AM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Jenna- First of all, ALL homeowners ARE Not going to walk away. There are still over 90% of the people who have mortgages paying their mortgages.

There are still people who own their homes outright. There are still homes in this country with equity. There are still people like us who want to live where we live and so we will stay. There are still people who are smart enough to realize that it is better to pay for a home underwater that you still have control over somewhat at least more so than if you rent which to me is flushing your own money down the toilet. Those people will stay. There are enough of those people to make your point mute. 

The sooner all who want to walk do- the sooner we can stop the bleeding. The sooner we get back on track and maybe, just maybe we will all learn some lessons here. 

There are still enough people that follow David Ramsey's advice and we will turn this around. 

Jul 07, 2010 03:55 AM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Jenna- I welcome a clash of ideas. I welcome debate. Your comments are MORE than welcome on my posts! 

Jul 07, 2010 03:58 AM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

:) Thanks Jamey! 

Jul 07, 2010 04:42 AM
Jenna Dixon
Momentum Real Estate Group LLC - Marietta, GA
55 & Over | New Constructions | Horse Farms

Katerina,

You rock.  Pop over to my blog when you get a sec...I think there is something there for you!

Thanks for the healthy debate! 

I look forward to a better market for all so that we can debate something more positive!

Jul 07, 2010 04:56 AM
Scott Baker
www.eHomeReports.com Coldwell Banker Realty - Liberty Township, OH
Realtor Homes for Sale Cincinnati/Dayton Ohio

It seems to me if someone is willing to suffer the consequences that go along with walking away from a mortgage, so be it.

Thank you 

Jul 07, 2010 10:39 AM
Kent Dills
Broker, Dills Real Estate - Bellingham, WA
Real Estate 817-495-8028, Bellingham, Washington

I'll keep helping ANY seller that needs my help doing a short sale.   Most of these folks have tried to work things out with their lenders only to be given the run around and/or cold shoulder.   I'm going to be different and try to HELP THEM! 

Jul 07, 2010 02:57 PM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Jenna- Thanks for the nice post on your blog! 

Jul 07, 2010 04:47 PM
Wendy Rulnick
Rulnick Realty, Inc. - Destin, FL
"It's Wendy... It's Sold!"

Katerina - I am not going to refuse to list a short sale if I think I can get it approved, which would require the seller to forthrightly produce financial documents required by their lender.  They know if they have $50,000 or whatever in the bank, they are probably going to have to bring some to closing. 

Jul 08, 2010 12:10 PM
Todd Clark - Retired
eXp Realty LLC - Tigard, OR
Principle Broker Oregon

It amazes me when someone looks down on someone else when they stop paying their mortgage. If you work for a company and they close their doors and re-open them the next day under a different name because the first company name file bankruptcy are you going to refuse to take a paycheck from them because of the moral issue of them trying to get rid of debt to pay you?

Jul 08, 2010 06:26 PM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Great point Todd! I am sure most people would not turn down their paycheck. 

Jul 08, 2010 06:41 PM
Yolanda Hoversten
Self Employed - O'Fallon, IL
Referrals for O’Fallon, IL & the Metro East

Katerina, another excellent post with great exchange of ideas.  You don't need another feature, but here 'tis.  Thank you!

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Yolanda :)

Jul 09, 2010 08:43 AM
Katerina Gasset
The Gasset Group & Get It Done For Me Virtual Services - Provo, UT
Amplify Your Real Estate & Life Dreams!

Yolanda- Thanks a bunch! :) I will take your feature any day! 

Jul 09, 2010 05:28 PM