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Pregnancy and the Mortgage Application, Time to Clarify Some Miss-Information in the rain

By
Mortgage and Lending with CMG Home Loans NMLS 248937

 There have been numerous blogs this week that discuss pregnancy and the inability to get a mortgage. The blogs make it seem as if banks are sending pregnancy test kits with the disclosure documents and after reading more than one blog, and the comments, I felt the need to set things straight. WE DO NOT even ask the question!!!

First off this has nothing to do with pregnancy. There is nothing new here at all.  We are talking about good old fashioned mortgage guidelines that have been around for decades. We are in a Full Doc World and we need to document income and employment.

Here is how Employment and Income is verified:

  • Review pay stubs, W2's etc... If the stubs mention disability or maternity leave it is a red flag

  • Call the employer: "Does Jane Doe work there?" This call is often made just before closing since guidelines require a "fresh" verification. If the borrower is on a temporary leave it WILL cause a problem.

WHATWhy?It is pretty simple, mortgage guidelines require income streams to last at least 3 years to be considered for qualifications. Maternity leaves are not permanent income, they are often only for a few months and may only be a form of short term disability.

Will a loan be denied if some one is on maternity leave? No, But the closing may be postponed until the borrower returns to work. The guideline has always required a pay stub to prove the borrower has returned to work. This is not just for Maternity leave, it could be for any form of temporary disability.

This is not a discrimination item, it is purely an income issue.  It is also Mortgage Banking 101... The basics that have been in the guidelines for decades. So be careful of what you read, and the source is important as well. A lot of the uproar was from an article floating out in the media that sensationalized guidelines as if they were some new 2 headed beast, The media often takes the side of an issue that will sell things rather than inform accurately.

We keep hearing it is hard to get a mortgage. This is not really a true statement at all.  If you pay your bills on time, have a small down payment and a Job, it is pretty easy to get a loan. It is harder to get a loan now if you have crappy credit, Don't have a job, or Don't declare your income.   I laugh to myself everytime I have to say this: "You need a Job to get a mortgage"  How dare we ask a client how they plan to pay us back?!

 

Have a great week!

Rob

Robert Rauf

Mortgage Banker

NMLS ID# 248937

www.RobertRaufHomeLoans.com   or my blog: http://activerain.com/blogs/rrauf

(732)223-1630 x102

RRauf@REMN.com

Since 1987 I have been helping my clients fulfill their dream of home ownership!

Real Estate Mortgage Network Inc.

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Ed Borne
Transitions Realty - Los Angeles, CA

I agree with Linda, #51 above, I have a pregnant single mother buyer on hold until she delivers.  It's even difficult to get her to showings, basically, I'm scared to transport her at 8 mos pregnant.  We are looking at listings and creating a list. I hope things go well for her and she resumes her plans to buy. In the meantime, I practice patience.

Aug 01, 2010 05:32 AM
Greg Cook
Platinum Home Mortgage - Temecula, CA
Mortgage Consultant NMLS ID# 283159

Rob, as Shakespeare said "Much 'ado about nothing". Income has to be likely to continue, and in the past we could get by with a letter from the employer, saying job would be available and a letter from the borrower saying they intended to return to work.

There's been a lot of talk about guidelines relaxing after we get through this.

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experience, not just rates!
Aug 01, 2010 05:51 AM
Sonsie Conroy
I serve buyers and sellers everywhere in San Luis Obispo County - San Luis Obispo, CA
Energetic, Enthusiastic, Knowledgeable Realtor

John N., regarding thost questions about birth control and menopause, I was actually asked about my birth control method when we applied for our first mortgage way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. I was a little embarrassed, but assumed this was "normal." I'm glad those days are behind us!

Aug 01, 2010 07:16 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

I am waiting for someone to argue when life begins on a mortgage that is based on "family size" income limits.  If a couple is expecting their first child, are they a family of two or three?

Aug 01, 2010 11:08 AM
Anonymous
Tony totanes
Very interesting topic. I am sure a lot of people are not aware about pregnancy that can affect the loan approval or close of escrow date.
Aug 01, 2010 11:41 AM
#81
Sharon Alters
Coldwell Banker Vanguard Realty - 904-673-2308 - Fleming Island, FL
Realtor - Homes for Sale Fleming Island FL

I missed the uproar and the other post - but this makes perfect sense. I would not term pregnancy or maternity leave as a 'disability' but I guess the banking industry has deemed it such. I do understand the financial aspect of it, all to do with income and ratios.

Heck, people don't even understand that if they buy a truck or a bunch of new furniture before settlement that it can jeopardize their purchase. I guess the next step is to have a CAVEAT sheet printed in red and orange when prospects take application - BEWARE THESE CONDITIONS CAN JEOPARDIZE YOUR CLOSING! and list them for the uneducated or ill-advised.

Aug 01, 2010 12:52 PM
Ann Dail
Baton Rouge Area Homes, Louisiana, USA, 225-761-0551 - Baton Rouge, LA
Broker/Realtor,CRS, ePRO, SRS, B.A.Chem

Full doc, in my opinion, does still discriminate against the self-employed or independent contractors.  They only count your "net" and then if you write off your car, they go and count that again in debt ratios.  So I disagree with your statement if you have a job and pay your bills you can easily get a loan.

Aug 02, 2010 03:19 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Wow, thanks for all the comments everyone.

Keep in mind that we DO NOT ask if some one is pregnant.  We call up and say "Does Mr or Mrs Client work there?" and it is when we call the employer that the issue may arise.  A pay stub may be the red flag as well.  IT has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING TO DO WITH PREGNANCY.  That was the point of this blog, to clear the air that we need to verify the employment and income, NOTHING ELSE!!!! 

And yes I did say you need a job to get a loan, This could be substituted with a verifiable source of income - Pension Social Security, investment, interest etc... And any of them would need to last at least 3 years to be considered. 

I actually had a NASTY Voicemail waiting for me in my office this morning saying I was disgusting for asking if someone was pregnant and that they were going to do everything in their power to fight this legally and professionally.  So JT in MD, who ever you are: Please read the blog and realise my point was that it is not a pregnancy issue, That was the entire point of writing the blog to clear the air!

Thanks!

 

Aug 02, 2010 04:31 AM
Heather Schaible, REALTOR®, PMC, SFR, ABR, GREEN
West Associates - Long Beach, CA

I was wondering where the confusion was too.  It is very logical (you need a steady income!).  Thanks for blog and great job!!

Aug 02, 2010 04:49 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Thanks Heather!  It is all about income!

Aug 02, 2010 05:23 AM
Steven Cook
No Longer Processing Mortgages. - Tacoma, WA

Television news seems to do one of two things repeatedly:

1)  give a maximum of 30-45 seconds to something that really deserves a minimum of 10 minutes, or

2) they make it a longer story, but only get experts on one side of the issue.

If they ever got back to actually covering the news in a competent manner, we wouldn't have to keep fighting these brush fires.

Aug 02, 2010 07:08 AM
Debbe Perry
Real Living Carolina Property - Morganton, NC
828.439.3084 Morganton/Lake James NC

Better get that 7-month-pregnant in a home, quick!!

Aug 02, 2010 08:45 AM
Kristina Heili
Keller Williams Premier Realty - Woodbury, MN
Comprehensive Real Estate Services

Someone out there always makes our jobs harder because they don't take the time to get all the facts or get clarification to something that isn't clear. Or, better yet, just using common sense...when one is on maternity leave there is a drop in income. When mom goes back to work and hires day care there is an additional monthly expense that has to go into the ratio equation. Great info in the post and comments!

Aug 03, 2010 07:41 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Kristina, for most loans, lenders do Not count child care costs into the ratios... So that really is not an issue. Borrowers should look at that themselves to be sure they budget correctly though!

Aug 03, 2010 08:36 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Kristina, for most loans, lenders do Not count child care costs into the ratios... So that really is not an issue. Borrowers should look at that themselves to be sure they budget correctly though!

Aug 03, 2010 08:36 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Marlene, I have been lending since the 80's and the only time I counted child care was on Government loans.. but it wasnt that strict.

Aug 16, 2010 08:47 AM
Anonymous
Kristin

I am running into this issue because my partner broke his ankle 2 months before we are to close on our house being built. We don't know eactly when he will be able to return to work and niether does his md, we have a general idea but everybody heals differently and it has come down to a game of days. The underwriter wants two weeks worth of paystubs before we can close. Seems unfair. Any ideas/comments?

Aug 25, 2011 09:25 AM
#93
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Kristin, it is all about income and being able to verify how long it will continue.  Any source of income needs to last for at least 3 years.  and Temporary disability is just that "temporary"

So Typically one pay stub should be enough to prove you are back to work, of course every lender will have different guidelines... If you qualified on just your income it would not be an issue, but if you need both incomes you need a more permanent source of income for your partner for it to be considered in the qualifying equation.

I hope that helps to answer your question?

Aug 26, 2011 08:21 AM
Anonymous
Kristin

Thanks Rob, appreciate the answer.  I guess my question is more of why can't he be back to work even less than a week to qualify?  They will call our employers anyway. It may require more due diligence on the lender but we have many moving parts hanging in the balance depending on our closing date let alone the stress of the unknown here.

Aug 26, 2011 11:48 AM
#95
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Any time I have had a scenario similar to yours, we just need 1 pay stub, and a verbal VOE prior to closing, just enough to prove you are back to work.  It is possible there is a lender or two out there that would add a bit more to that, it is not uncommon these days to see additional overlays...  If the people you are working with are being difficult, you can always call another Mortgage Loan guy/gal that services your state ... Just to see if there is something unique about your scenario, or if you may be better off jumping ship.

Aug 27, 2011 04:15 AM