Newest Discrimination: PREGNANCY and Your Mortgage App

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Newest Discrimination: PREGNANCY and Your Mortgage App

I closed on a house today where the buyer was asked by BANK OF AMERICA about their future child plans! Not if the wife was pregnant now, but FUTURE plans.

This is a young couple moving from their first to second home. At the last minute, the underwriter (of course) requested several more forms and more information. Okay, normal.

But one question they asked the husband was "Do you plan on having more children?"

WHOA.

Lani Rosales wrote about this recently on AgentGenius about this topic and her point was she was SHOCKED by the question. She didn't understand why more realtors were not outraged when this was pointed out in a Realtor Magazine article. It generated very little interest.

Well this buyer was insulted and not pleased. They have one gorgeous little girl now. They qualify for the new home on the husband's income alone. It is nobody's business if the wife is pregnant (she's not) or if they ever plan on having more children.

Why aren't more agents upset by this?

I am a full time worker and a mother of 2. I worked throughout 2 pregnancies. I understand if I had quit work our income would have dropped and perhaps we would have not been able to afford our house. I get that.

But in this case, the wife is a full time mother and her income would not "drop" if she got pregnant. How in the world does it matter?

Isn't this violating Fair Housing somehow? Discrimination?

In the past month other bloggers have posted about this being a lie (another mortgage blogger posted that lenders only ask this in case to see if the buyer will quit later, after getting pregnant). This is NOT THE CASE here and this is not hypothetical or third hand info.

This happened TODAY to a buyer client of mine and the lender was Bank of America.

Flickr photo courtesy CarbonNYC

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Erica Ramus is Broker/Owner of Ramus Realty Group in Pottsville, PA. If you're looking for a PROFESSIONAL to represent you in all of your Schuylkill County real estate needs, call 570-622-6006. Serving all of Schuylkill County ... Pottsville, Orwigsburg, Schuylkill Haven, Auburn, Pine Grove, Frackville, Minersville, Ashland, Shenandoah, Port Carbon, Palo Alto, St. Clair, Barnesville real estate. Click on the link above to search Pottsville PA homes for sale or anySchuylkill County homes for sale. We have all properties listed for sale in theSchuylkill MLS on our website -- free search! No registration is required!

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Posted by Erica Ramus - SchuylkillRealEstate.com - Schuylkill County PA Real Estate on 08/12/2010 09:00 PM

Comments (134)

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134 Comments on Newest Discrimination: PREGNANCY and Your Mortgage App

AUG

2010

This tells us that lenders are not back yet. They are looking for any excuse other than ethnic discrimination to deny a loan.

Erica, I had heard some rumblings about this a few weeks ago, underwriters are trying to penalize a woman for being pregnant or the possibility of becoming pregnant in the future. I am not sure if it will effect the interest rate one pays, like high risk. What ever this is there is not much public knowedge about it. I need to do more research myself; And yes I think it is discrimination.

That's a violation of ECOA

I would never ask a client that question.... unbelievable.

Erica this is discrimination. They used to do this stuff back in the 70's and I thought it would be gone forever - in fact I think they created some federal law. I was pretty young at that time but I do remember my older sister being really upset by this kind of questioning by their lender.Would be interesting to find out if this is legal?

oooh that is icky. Yes a child is an expense but if the wife is a stay at home mom. that is horrible that they would ask.

This is outrageous. Is that even legal???? And, how are future plans of any sort part of this? Are they asking if they are planning to move or get a new job or if they are going to need to care for their parents or if their parents are going to die and leave them an inheritance. Oh my goodness. So many things happen in life - both expected and unexpected. And, if someone was planning on having another child and that is important to them and their income is tight, they will figure it out to make things work. I'm getting really upset as I'm writing this, so I better stop.

Thanks guys. You're validating my feelings -- and the buyers. We were at the settlement table discussing this and it clearly was upsetting to the buyers.

This actually used to happen alot, as Anna says. I would think that it touches on several levels of discrimination, since they would only ask child-bearing age women applicants. It's wrong on every level.

This is horrible! I can't believe they are practicing discrimination when there are so many laws against it.

Erica I was not aware of this so thanks for bringing this to our attention. We have to stay on top of things. Much success to you...

Yes, it is discrimation based on familal status. At least as far as Realtors go. I think this should be reported to the US Department of Commerce as quickly as possible. And, I certainly hope you have names and numbers. We have had several people FIRED by BoA because of ineptitude among other reasons. This qualifies as discrimination and can have SEVERE consquences not only to the underwriter but BoA.

Erica, I wrote a post about this some weeks back. First, if a woman (or man) is out on family leave we can all expect questions and documentation about when, how and what the parent will return to work...and, a lender is going to want absolutes........That said...

Your clients situation is TOTALLY different and I would raise the roof with the questioning. I would start with the loan officer, roll up to the branch manager, and continue on to the corporate office. And, I would write letters to the newspaper, the television station and congress people. Are you picking up on my indignation to the mere fact the underwriter would "go there". Totally out of line..and it must fall under violation of one disclosure or another. Oh. Contact the ACLU just for good measure.

I will defend lending standard till the cows come home, but this is absolutely out of line. No uw precedent that I can think of to justify the questions, let alone the ans were.

Of course it is discrimination, and it is repugnant. The underwriter, in a just world, should be deep frying chicken nuggets by this time next week.

I think it's one step away from couples being turned down because there could be a possibility of patrnthood no matter their plans. It's sickening to me.

Another reason to put BoA out of business. How about, "Do you PLAN to get into a car accident and be disabled?" "Do you PLAN for your spouse to die suddenly and unexpectedly?" "Do you PLAN to loose your job?" Etc., etc., etc. I would PLAN on using another lender!

This really....REALLY....pisses me off. How dare they ask?? How can they get away with this? I had not heard of this. Is this just BOA or other lenders too? If this is just BOA - we have got to BOYCOTT them and put em outta business.

I posted about this a few weeks ago. From my understanding, it isn't completely about if the wife is going to work after the baby, but it's also about the maternity leave. Most women (not us self-employeed people) get 12 weeks leave, but it's not at full pay. They want to make sure the buyers can still make the mortgage payments with the reduced pay even if they go back to work after the 12 weeks.

3 months of reduced income can hurt a lot of families, and just another way the lender is covering their arse.

I Wonder how far they are willing to take acts of discrimination... What a fine line they choose to walk..

Next step: Can you PROVE you had a vasectomy or hysterectomy?

Please fax over your proof and an addendum signed by the surgeon.

Erica, I had to stop back by...you know this is under my skin. Every agent/client needs to DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT any situation like this. Verbal will not do...it has be in written form. No doubt about it...it is discrimination (and illegal). Would love to see it on the front pages...but it will take cohesive and collaborative efforts. Where is NAR, may I ask?

If if were to happen on my file...all haites to pay. Guaranteed.

On the face it seems like a familial status issue and WE certainly would not be able to ask... But I don't know the mortgage laws.

Donna--I am looking up your post now. Sorry I missed it!

this is wrong on so many levels, and just one more black eye on lenders. Who do they think they are? why is it for every good professional there are so many incompetents? What a disgrace

This definitely sounds like discrimination for familial status(Fair Housing). It's like we are going backwards. Bank of Where? Reprehensible.

Erica, this is shameful and discriminating! I do hope you take Deborah's post and suggestion and follow through so the underwriter can go on to their next job - according to Philip - deep frying chicken nuggets!

Sure seems like a fair housing / equal oppoerunity question to me. An employer can't ask that question, but a lender can? I doubt it.

You're kidding right? That's absolutely a Fair Housing violation. I will guarantee that if this ever comes up in one of my transactions I will contacting all the appropriate authorities immediately as soon as it happens. This is pure madness and has to be stopped.

Talk about marching backwards! I truly hope that this is a violation - the era of discriminating against women for preganancy was and should remain a distant memory.

Taking Deborah's suggestion. Getting name of the person who asked the freaking question in the first place.

Familial Status is a protected class. Take action.

HUD issued an announcement about this a couple of weeks ago. It was made about 2 days after some media outlets picked up on the story.

Erica, (yes, I am like a dog on a bone), Donna's comment really mirrors my post about Evidence consumer's income is going to return or continue. Your situation is entirely different and need proactive representation. Hey, it could work to your advantage. Talk to the local television station, radio station....NO, I am not being over reactive. The only way banks are going to quit acting the baffoons is to call them on the carpet.

Asking about FUTURE plans is as bizarre as anything I have ever heard and the bank deserves the exposure.

In the need to lighten this conversation up a bit: I have NEVER had a underwriter ask me for information about a couple's procreation plans...BUT, I have had a young husband call to "apologize" for the fact his wife was pregnant and they didn't mean it to happen during the course of the loan! (Need I mention that I make it very clear that NOTHING can change about their financial situation without my consent?)....Embarrassed? Yup, sure was.... But, we know I had control of the file, eh?

This is just insane. Are these banks and lenders just so big and untouchable (or at least untouched as of yet) that they can do something like this without a second thought?

I'm blown away and insulted. What's next: do you have future plans to vacation? Get a pet? Buy a new refrigerator? Underwriting has gone too far this time and I agree it's discrimination. I would venture to say b of a would deny it or defend saying it's relevant to financial acumen to repay and therefore a legitimate question.

Life is unpredictable. LIFE HAPPENS.

Accidents, diseases, job layoffs, relocations, the roof leaks 6 months later, ... it is unpredictable. You could never plan for 100% of what will happen later.

My associate, #11 and the commenter at #12, have given you some advice to check out the available avenues to run with this. As long as there is documentation of the underwriter's request, you should be able to tell this story high and low, over and over again. We use the media around here to report abuse. And you can, too.

Erica - You certainly couldn't ask that question if you were interviewing someone for a job. Can't imagine that it is legal in this situation either. Thanks for the heads up.

WOW...ok I'm shocked! I know that in the past they have asked questions about how many in your household, etc. but to ask what their future family plans are--that's NONE of their business and I'd be looking into it more if I were the buyers. Just like potential employers cannot ask these questions, how can a lender? They are really starting to over step their boundaries! grrr

Wow - I'm almost speechless. This is the first I've ever heard of this (obviously I've missed several good posts). Would be very interested to know if any OTHER lenders are asking this question or if it's just BOA.

Take action for sure. I had to pop back in and see where the conversation went to. It is familial status. Just not ok on so many many levels - not to mention illegal.

Horrible the underwriters are out of control...but I am sure they are getting their power to ask from higher ups.

I would file a complaint, outrageous.

Erica - what about an unplanned pregnancy. Do they withdaraw the loan if you think there might be a possibility that you have conceived? I think these underwriters are beginning to border on the ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that it reaks of discrimination.

Someone needs to take Bank of Awful by the horns and make believers out of them. I'd sue the pants off of them if I were the buyer. Enough is enough! Great comments so far!

Erica, you've got to follow through on this and keep us abreast as to how it progresses. I imagine your jaw hit the floor when the question was asked? I know mind would've.

Yeah, I found out at the closing when the buyer was upset and relayed the question. Both husband and wife were shocked at it, and both were really insulted.

Unplanned pregnancy? What about unplanned CANCER? Unplanned car accident? Unplanned job loss?

Wow...I am going to pass this along to my company. Thanks for the info.

Wow, I am blown away. This is discrimination, what will they ask next.

I've been lending for about 10 years and have never heard of this. I would on occasion ask clients (about current/future children) while meeting with them so that we could properly plan (financially) for their future needs. However it had nothing whatsoever to do with qualifying. I'd be very interested to know if this was a 1x situation or if they always ask this. I can't see how they could get away with it.

Well, it was Bank of America, did you expect anything different? They are the absolute WORST bank to deal with, bar none. I'd rather live in a cardboard box than mortgage my house through them. They should definitely be called on the carpet for this one.

That is wrong, but the big banks have the money to be protected by the politicians.

Unbelievable.... Or is it?

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Erica - I should be shocked but I'm not. At the same time it is apalling. I would love to see someone test this as a discrimination case in court. IMO it is none of their business and has no bearing on ability to pay the mortgage. Do they ask if someone thinks they might get layed off? Or of they expect a promotion? Or do they plan to get divorced in the future?

Jeff

Thanks for bringing this up, Erica. It's disgusting, but I am not surprised.

OMG. You've got nto be kidding me...

Erica, I hope you are spreading this to every media outlet you possibly can...

This is discusting! I thought it was totally illegal. I want to look into this further. I was asked that question in 1975 when applying to grad school in Canada. It was discrimination then and it still is, but I thought we had moved beyond it.

Sorry guys, but this HAS to be implemented by a man. No woman would ever ask that question, especially on a loan application. That is nuts!!!!

WOW, Erica, you have really hit a raw nerve! Right on, for bringing this up in your post. Just another nail in the coffin of public opinion on B of A and their mortgage process.

Geez, so sickening to hear of this. I was asked that question in a job interview about 25 years ago, and I was PISSED off then. I can't believe this question is still being asked.

PLEASE ask your buyers to pursue this. Tell it on the mountain. And report back to us all at AR.

Ugly, disgusting and worse... please let us know where you are able to take this and please reach out to the rest of us in the Rain if you run into any dead ends. We all deserve better than to be subjected to this harassment and discrimination.

This is not doubt a form of discrimination... Maybe they should make pregnacy a protective class

AUG

2010

Erica: I share your outrage. And by the way, that is an ILLEGAL question to ask.

This is shocking. Employers haven't been able to ask these types of questions for years! Employers, just like lenders, have a right to be concerned that the mortgage will be paid (or the job will be done) but there are civil rights implications. A reasonable buyer should consider their future plans in light of the obligation they are taking on, but the way the lender asked the question was out of line.

Hi Erica,

Believe it or NOT, this is not brand new, it's more like a BAD FLASH-BACK IN TIME!

First things first, if the buyer could qualify with the ratios, it should be a non-issue, right? That would be the FIRST issue for me on the situation.

Then...I'll admit I'm one of those dinosaurs in r.e. (who continues to learn today) who remembers the time (early 1970's) when the same question was asked. and MORE specifically women borrowers were REQUIRED to write what was called a "PILL LETTER"....that's right, women were required that were on the pill in order to have their income added to qualify.

From reading your post, it sounds to me like we've taken a big-step backwards!

Btw, the old loan apps, used to say "HUSBAND & WIFE"...not borrower and co-borrower.

Erica - I am starting to hear more and more stories where pregnancies are becoming issues for some mortgage applications in the USA.

WHOA . . . what a question to be asked. Not only is that discriminatory based of family status, but what about privacy? I'll take it one step futher -- only 'cause I'm in that mood -- what about the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

This is patent discrimination if I've ever seen it before. I think the ACLU is a GREAT idea. Nooooowwwww....if Elizabeth Warren becomes head of the new consumer protection agency....WHOA...watch out!!! I'm not holding my breath for her - I know how politics works against honest people. But banks would have opened a hornets nest for her to go after with this....I can dream can't I?????

It seems to me this would be a violation of the law and would like to know for sure, and if it is, I would love to see it pursued.

Erica,

See below.

HUD>Topic Areas>Fair Lending

Fair Lending

Discrimination in mortgage lending is prohibited by the federal Fair Housing Act and HUD's Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity actively enforces those provisions of the law. The Fair Housing Act makes it unlawful to engage in the following practices based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status or handicap (disability):

Refuse to make a mortgage loan
Refuse to provide information regarding loans
Impose different terms or conditions on a loan, such as different interest rates, points, or fees
Discriminate in appraising property
Refuse to purchase a loan or set different terms or conditions for purchasing a loan

Filing a Complaint

If you have experienced any one of the above actions, you may be the victim of discrimination. Recognizing the signs of lending discrimination is the first step in filing a complaint. HUD investigates your complaints at no cost to you. If you believe you have experienced lending discrimination, visit our housing discrimination complaint website to learn more about the complaint process.

http://www.justice.gov/crt/housing/fairhousing/about_fairhousingact.htm

Hope this helps!

Appaling... can't believe that B of A keeps giving itself hoof and mouth disease, with one bad thing after the other. They are the worst when it comes to a short sale negotiation, and now this. See comment # 67 above. Looks pretty open and shut.

I agree with Jeff #52. I just keep wondering how much further these banks will go to alienate the public...

If the possibility of someone losing their job in the FUTURE is a new condition of obtaining financing, then I guess the only people who would qualify are college professors with life tenure..... That makes me so angry! It's bad enough women make less than men "because they will eventually have kids and either need time off or leave the work force" but now we can't get mortgages either??!

Not surprising from the bank that refused to cash a man's check because he couldn't leave a thumbprint BECAUSE HE HAD NO ARMS!!!

OMG! I hope you absolutely follow up with this. This is so blatently discriminatory!

This is astounding. Bank asking about things that might happen in the future. Who knows what lies ahead? Might you get pregnant? Sure. Might you switch jobs? Sure. Might you have to have a family member move in with you? Sure. Might you be diagnosed with a terminal illness? Sure.

Discrimination - definitely. Not to mention speculating on what might happen to a borrower in the future. How in the world can a bank make decisions based on the future? It's absurd. The loan should be based on the borrower's current financial picture. Period.

Erica. Thanks for making this post PUBLIC. I wrote a follow-up that was a tad long for a Re-Blog.

Great article and could be an alert for loan officer members of ActiveRain. I need to go back and see if there are any comments by LO on your post. I see that one LO did address the Equal Credit matter. Good for him.

Thanks.

The pendulum is many areas has swung toooo far the other way....it is not anyone's business about a number of things we hear these days....and from the "people only behave the way we allow them to"...you are both to be applauded for complaining....and we hope loudly to the highest sources that will listen.....or should hear it.

As if all pregnancies are planned!! I was ON MEDICAL LEAVE when we closed on our house, 19 years ago, gave birth 5 days later - the only question I was asked was, are you sure you're not going to go into labor during the closing? Of course, this was a small town local lender.

I think if I ever encounter this question being asked of any of my clients, I would advise them to exercise their right to legal counsel. I bet the question would be withdrawn.

This definitely is totally out of line. I hope your clients will definitely follow up the ladder on this. First and foremost it is not a question that should be asked by law.

Are you sure they aren't obtaining a second FHA mortgage? This is allowed if your family size is increasing.

Erica:

I remember, years ago a potential employer asking me if I ever planned on getting pregnant. And, of course, some other pretty outrageous questions. I thought this type of discrimination was no longer tolerated. It shocks me that the bank is getting away with it.

Erica,

Totally offensive! It's just wrong. Bet no-one asked the JetBlue guy if he planned on going psycho! Just a thought!

All the best, Michelle

Is Bank of America offering a new form of birth control.... You only qualify for a loan if you agree not to have children. Are you kidding me?! This is wrong.

HA! I wonder if BofA will be seeking some TARP money to compensate them for "potential losses due to unplanned pregancies by borrowers".

The sad thing is, they'll get by with this like they've gotten by with every insult to our economy, our sensibilities and our common sense so far.

Wrong on so many levels.

Erica, hopefully this isn't the bank's policy. Either way I can't see where it would be any of their business.

It just seems that the banks have not learned any lessons from this fiasco and are making things more difficult for all of us and the economy.

Erica - While I'm very appalled by the question of the underwriters to the husband, I'm wondering if BOA found a loophole in the Fair Housing Act, that states under familial status:

The protections afforded against discrimination on the basis of familial status shall apply to any person who is pregnant or is in the process of securing legal custody of any individual who has not attained the age of 18 years.

That surprises me a lot. I wonder where that practice will lead them. Angry clients?

Whether this is an illegal practice or not, surely doesn't take into account how most people will be very offended when they are asked this question and pass on their displeasure with their friends and family.

Wow, this is absolutely intolerable! I am shocked to see this ome out in 2010. I'd love to see where they put that one in their procedural manual. Time to go call some people and make some noise about this one.

Bingo, Morgan. The question is OFFENSIVE to me and was to my client.

To the loan guy who asked if this is a 2nd FHA loan, that question alone doesn't take away the offense of the question in the first place. Are you PLANNING on having more children? None of your business.

Shocking and infuriating story, Erica. Not too long ago, my mother talked about this type of questioning being common back in the sixties. She was referring to the experience from a look-how-far-we’ve-come perspective. Hopefully, this type of invasive questioning will be quickly nipped in the bud.

I'm with you on this. There was also another post here on AR about the same thing where the women was pregnant & the loan was declined. I think it is total gender discrimination & I said so on that other post of which I was in the minority BTW. I'm not getting it either on why NAR is on this like 'stinks' on ........

Reply to Donna: Wife's income is not needed so what's their excuse now?

There was a piece on NPR a few days ago about that very thing. The banks are working themselves out of a job.

Erica....excellent post....thank you

What in the world is going on...? Only last week, I agreed to help a census taker to gather data on some tenants that moved during the census. The questions became questionable, then intimate and then crossed over into privacy rule & regs to the point where I had to say.......I wouldnt answer these questions even if I had the data in front of me to give.....This is out of line and why are you doing this?......Their answer.....that is what we are supposed to do. My answer: This conversation is over......

Wow, talk about crossing over a line. That is really unbelievable!!!!

I have heard this before but sadly it is legal!
Have a successful weekend Erica!
Paul

This is wrong on so many levels. Personally, I don't see how this is legal. And of course, the husband should not need to respond.

that is a violation on so many levels....

While we're at it, let's ask if they are smokers, or if they have a family history of heart disease or diabetes? Let's not let pesky life-threatening illnesses get in the way of the banks getting their money back!

This scenario is an ECOA violation!!! IT IS NOT LEGAL! Keep in mind, that Loan officers who work for banks and their subsidiaries are not licensed. Be wise and choose to work with licensed professionals.

Please please please do a post after you report this loan officer for this totally illegal question. Thank goodness your buyers told you about it. Unbelievable! And I also have to say it is great to see the outrage on the numerous mortgage officers on ActiveRain.

Erica,

Unbelieveable! Just when I think BOA can not get more bad press, they do. Do a few short sales with them and you can not believe the incompetence the bank has as employees. BOA sent in a satisfaction of mortgage on one home and then 2 months later in the same court house they filed foreclosure. Pretty bad when the clerk had to tell them they already satisfied the mortgage! BUT to have a loan officer, someone who is suppose to represent the company as a professional ask such a stupid and totally unacceptable question. I would ask to speak to their Bank President and see if it is their policy now. I know that in hiring you can not ask if they plan on having more children or discrimate against an employee who is in child bearing years. It has to be illegal to base a loan on the same scenerio. Isn't??????

to me it is blatant discriminaton.

Next thing you know, buyers will have to go to their doctor for a full battery of blood work to make sure they are pre-screened for the eventuality that they might someday in the future years from now be diagnosed with cancer, alzheimers, diabetes or some yet to be discoverd and unnamed terminal illness or condition that might render them unable to work or produce income!

Hi Erica~ This is disgraceful, to say the least. You would think BOA (Bank Of America) would have themselves on google alert so they could be monitoring their reputation on line. Oops, apparently they could care less.....

Erica,

This is definitely discrimination and the lender is not allowed to ask this type of questions. Did they ultimately get the loan? It is one thing to make qualification based on one earner while the other is on maternity leave, but it is illegal to ask on future plans.

Of course BofA has their own rules and criteria. Doesn't this fall under Fair Housing Laws or something?

That's incredible.....I think your clients could "own" that mortgage company. This is a clear violation of Fair Housing Laws....yikes. BofA are truly out of touch and running in their own version of the Wild West.

it is a very strange question indeed... hmmmmm

if the point is that they may quit later... doesn't correspond to reality... wouldn't the mothering instinct make the borrower want to keep the home together... more?

I read your blog, but I still cannot believe that a residential mortgage loan officer would violate ECOA (Equal Credit Opportunity Act) or even worse not even be aware of same.

It is my hope that you and your client do not just let this matter pass..

I'm with you, I would probably not only be outraged but tell my client they didn't have to answer the question.

Yep- we ALL are outraged....you are not alone:)

Crazy, unbelievable & seems unlawful to me.

Wow, this is amazing. What an example of an invasion of privacy. I am suprised there is not more outrage.

Just plain wrong on so many levels and if you think about it what do they really gain from that information? So you say "no plans for children" and then would they penalize you if you got pregnant? Or you say, "yes, we want lots of kids" and then you can't. So this question is both wrong and stupid...the worst kind. I'm sorry for your clients too, because it probably took an exciting experience and dampened it. Bet it's made for some interesting dinner party conversation though!!

Interesting that no one from BofA has commented. I showed this to my Gold Services Lending Partner at BofA and hope to hear his take on this (for all we know this may show up on Snopes.com as a hoax).

I can't believe how many REALTORS® there are that have immediately formed a judgment without having all of the facts at hand. Even worse is the disparagement of the Bank. I really wonder how many of you would like it if a large regional lender would start badmouthing the name of your firm because you referred them to a buyer client from Hell (you know the type).

BofA is not stupid. If this is an underwriting check list item, don't you think they had their in-house and possibly external legal counsel looking at it? If this was a rogue underwriter, and if this question is in fact a prohibited question (it's been pointed out that it may be possible to ask this question for second FHA mortgages), either by law or by (common sense), then the situation should be addressed. However, there are very few of us who are lawyers (or loan underwriters) and are qualified to say that this is a complete violation of the fair housing laws. It may sound like a violation to you, but please let a competent and impartial panel make this decision.

Like I tell my wife (who is an attorney), I know a lot about real estate, but don't know crap about the law. She knows that isn't true, but I still don't give legal opinions to her or to my clients (or amongst other REALTORS®).

Did you see something in writing asking if they planned on having more kids? If it was verbal, did you hear the question asked yourself? Unless they had to actually supply proof of their intention (I have no idea how you would do that), it almost sounds like chit chat that was taken wrong.

Wow. Chit chat taken wrong. Sorry Jackie but the buyers were upset at the closing table and brought it up to me and the title agent. It was not chit chat. It insulted them.

To Weichert: Wow. The facts are pretty simple here. Lender asked point blank question, buyer was shocked to be asked it. Simple.

As others have pointed out, Do you PLAN on having a car accident and being disabled? Do you PLAN on having your spouse leave you next year?

And on the flip side, maybe I want 2 more kids and then cannot have them. Do I get a higher rating because I am unable to have more kids?

Hi Erica -- I had an elderly, single, female, professional seller who purchased a home in the 1960s and she said the banks back then would not make a home loan to someone like her and she ended up having a male friend take out a loan and then 10 years later, she was able to obtain a mortgage.

This is outrageous -- I hope BofA gets fined where it really hurts. What's next: Asking how many pets you have? I have 2 large dogs and they eat of a ton of food, rawhides, Maybe they will start asking about parrots, fish and pet ferrets next.

Sorry Erica- Just thought since the loan officer asked the husband and the husband told the wife?, and the wife told you then I read what you wrote about it. When presented with a third hand account isn't it only prudent to question the details? I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm just saying by the time the husband told the wife, she told you and you told us that something could have been mis-interpreted at some point in the chain.

No problem Jackie. Husband told everyone at the settlement table first hand. Both he and the wife were upset and felt it was rude and none of anyone's business.

More reasons to be terrified of B of A. After Larry Bettag's extremely disturbing post about B of A foreclosing, or rather, trying to twice on people who HAVE MADE THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENTS, now this. I was mad about them blowing off my client's loan mod and bad attitude. The bad news about them is just stacking up.

I've heard this before, but I haven't been involved in it, yet. It seems that it's none of their business. Did they ask if you'll eventually bring a dog into the house? It might chew up the flooring. How about if you plan on being downsized? Diagnosed with diabeties when you're 50? This is starting to get outta hand.

The fact that she does not have any income and is therefore not being used to "qualify" for the mortgage, I see this as blatant discrimination of familial status. Good luck to you and your buyers.

Erica, this is what I consider a fast track into Federal District Court somewhere. Could even be a wonderful class action. But then BOA would just ask for more TARP money to pay the plaintiffs when they win!

AUG

2010

I can hardly believe this! I want to keep checking the original posting to see if it was really a tongue in cheek humorous piece. It reminds me of not letting teachers teach as soon as their pregnancies showed and other similar horrors in the 60's. The overreaction of lenders is just outrageous. You bet this is a violation of the Code of Ethics.

We all should be concern of what is happing, because that practice is violating consumer's rights. Never thought some lenders were capable of asking these types of questions.

That is unreal! If BOA keeps doing this, I can see many lawsuits coming.

This is not only horrible, it is discrimination and there should be a lawsuit filed!

Erica, wowsie! Great post and what terrific comments too. I really agree with Ed (#110) I too hope you all don't let this just slide. There have been too many incidental problems with some banks (on a regular basis) that it's high time we stop just being insulted and do something. I'm beginning to feel that some banks have taken on more business than they handle (professionally) and are under staffed... the result - employees on the verge of snapping because of all the work pressure. Worse the work not getting done on time, and within the law.

So even if it's just a letter to the shareholders, banking regulators, whatever... I encourage your clients to take the time to write. Amazing sometimes what the results can be. Thanks for sharing.

I have re-blogged this post.

thank you for bringing this to our attention

I will reblog this as well. It is outrageous. I do believe a lot of agents are outraged. Any thoughts on how we as a group speak out? Through AR perhaps.

Thank you for bringing this to a broader audience, Erica - practices like these thrive in the darkness of ignorance. Only by shedding light on them can something be done about it. REBLOG!

Unbelievable! Yet I am not surprised this was brought up by the underwriter!

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Erica Ramus - SchuylkillRealEstate.com - Schuylkill County PA Real Estate

Pottsville, PA

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Erica Ramus - Ramus Realty Group - Pottsville, PA

Address: 300 Mauch Chunk St. Suite A, Pottsville, PA, 17901

Office Phone: (570) 622-6006 x 301

Cell Phone: (570) 449-2131

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