Ar_home_b_search
 

J Philip Real Estate gets rosy results for our clients!We got word last week that a past client's loan modification was approved. As happy and relieved as they were, my beleaguered clients had to swallow a rough pill: on the terms of the approved loan modification, their mortgage payment would be several hundred dollars higher than their original payment. 

It had been a long process. First, they had a job loss which resulted in their initial default. They were in arrears for almost a year before they could overcome the shock and paralysis and make any headway on a loan modification. All the while they worked like dogs at anything they could find before thankfully re entering the workforce. The trial payments, which were several hundred dollars less then their original payment, started immediately on application to the HAMP process.

It took 10 more months, and they made their trial payments religiously. They were issued a denial once because they allegedly missed payment, which the court referee threw back after given proof all payments were in fact made on time. When the approval came through, it was the same rate and term, and the arrearage was added to the principle, resulting in a higher payment than even their original loan. The bank basically negatively amortized the loan and hit the reset button. 

In their case, they were in a take it or leave it situation; ironically, getting a better job knocked them out of the HAMP program, and the modification was due to the lender's largess, not the government's. Since their issue was an inability to write a check for tens of thousands (50k+) of dollars to reinstate and not the amount of their payment, they are going to take it. The only issue they'll have going forward is if they lose a job again, but that makes them no different than anyone else. 

A few observations:

  • Even for sophisticated, educated people with college degrees, the loan mod process is complicated and grueling. 
  • Bank staff does little to make the process understandable, probably because in large part the staff themselves don't get it. 
  • If the red tape and vagaries are this much of an ordeal for educated professionals, it must be UberHell for people who aren't. 
  • It is no wonder the re-default rate is so high. People stagger across the finish line and collapse, even in the best of scenarios. 

On the whole in this case however, my people will not lose their house. Disaster was averted. This is one listing I am glad to not get. 

______________________________________________________________________________

Subscribe to J. Philip's Real Estate Blog by Email

Active Rain members-Feed your mind.  

In 2012, I Will Sell a Home for US Veteran Facing Hardship Pro Bono

  • We Are Westchester County & Metro New York Real Estate. Reach Phil at (914) 723-8900.
  • J. Philip Faranda, Broker-owner, J. Philip Real Estate, LLC. Vice President, Empire Access Multiple Listing Service. 
  • I am one of New York's premier short sale REALTORS, serving Westchester, the Hudson Valley & Metropolitan New York.
  • Free MLS Search! Register for a Free Listingbook account and search the MLS like an agent. 
  • I am hiring agents. We offer outstanding support, marketing resources, and pasta. 
All content/images, unless noted, are the property of J. Philip Faranda & may not be used without permission
 
Post is included in group: Westchester County
Post is included in group: Short Sale REALTORS®
Post is included in group: I Love NY
Post is included in group: BananaTude
Post is included in group: 40 Somethings

42 Comments on Higher Payment on Loan Modification

SEP
08
2010
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Wow, I'm glad to hear it "worked" out - sort of!  You're right about the re-default rates. With the current set-up, if one cog in the machine breaks, it could send them back to the same situation!

9:46am • #1
662,713 Points 113 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Phil, ok, I am happy they averted foreclosure or short sale. I am still scratching my head on the outcome though. After the loan modification their payments were higher than they were before.

I do get it, sort of. I mean, I understand the bank tacked on the money they owed, then said.. ok, you don't have to pay it all at once, but now you have to pay more per month.

Like I said, I am scratching my head. These loan mods are often a joke. Your people were lucky they are able to carry the new nut, how many are not?

9:46am • #2
133,179 Points 25 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Philip, Sadly, I think your friends situation is more the rule than the exception.  The HAMP program is pretty useless for most consumers and will remain thus until, or unless, the program becomes mandatory for banks....and, that is not going to happen. 

9:46am • #3
147,617 Points 6 Featured Posts Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

They are almost forcing people to throw in the towel, even the ones that are willing to do everything they can to hang on.

9:47am • #4
613,516 Points 139 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Phil, We've been fortunate not to have to deal with this.  Any dealings with the bank have generally been frustrating... there's this customer service concept that seems to be foreign.

10:01am • #5
111,546 Points 1 Featured Post Called Shot Master

Phil, they are lucky to get the mod so they dont have to pay to catch up. The bank did a good thing by allowing them to stay in the home as the issue seemed to stem from a job loss and not a bad mortgage. Had this happened in another time when the whole banking industry wasn't in shambles the loss of a job and one income would have caused them to lose their home from what it sounds like. I am happy to hear that they kept their house!

10:09am • #6
135,826 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp

Phil, I think I would have told them to "take this mod and shove it!". It sounds like they may be postponing the inevitable.

I hope they make it!

10:13am • #7
1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp

Phil,
Gov't programs are so well intentioned but work like a dirty mop. I have a bad feeling that our next administration will spend 18 months blaming this one for the loan mods gone wrong and the housing market having to deal with an even greater number of defaults and re-defaults than we see today. There are few good options for consumers as they cannot print money.

10:32am • #8
299,383 Points 6 Featured Posts

If they can afford the extra amount per month, it seems quite reasonable.  The bank and they determined that the new amount was doable.  HAMP bought them the time they needed to get back on their feet.  Like too many homeowners, it will be a long time before they buy or sell real estate.

10:33am • #9
1,545,941 Points 417 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

You are so spot on here.  The loan mods sponsored by the government today are no different than the old "HUD Forbearance" programs.  Interest and penalties mount while the loan is in "process".  Then, if approved, the entire astronomical amount accrued, interest, penalties, etc. is tacked onto the principal. 

Back in the olden days when I was a bankruptcy trustee, I saw folks with 2-3 years arrearages which is possible in the HUD forbearance program.  Then when they got the final payment, if approved, the payment was way beyond their ability to pay.

Of course, they had lived in the house for free for 2-3 years. 

10:37am • #10
339,682 Points 65 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

That extra $10,000 resulted in a payment of several hundred more?...I'd like to see the math that got that result. Did the loan term stay the same, eg was the $10,000 spread out over 15 years or was it redone over 30. Good story for people to be aware of.

10:39am • #11
272,746 Points 26 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Phil,

Over 50% of my short sale listings are failed loan mods. The banks may reduce the interest rate but they raise the principal often causing the increased monthly payment.

The principal is increased for several reasons:

  • Old arrearage gets "capitalized" or added to the balance.
  • Fees and legal costs get added to the principal.
  • And then the confusing part: The difference between the old regular payment and the lower trial payment gets added to the principal. This can add up quickly and really takes the borrower by surprise.
10:43am • #12
Attended Rain Camp

I'm happy your clients were able to avoid foreclosure.  I think that the key to these situations is persistence.  It's a shame that after all this banks are still unrealistic and unreasonable. They do have the power to make in-house modifications if homeowners do not qualify for HAMP.  They choose to make the process complicated and disheartening.  Thanks for the post

10:47am • #13
Outside Blog

Phil: Last week I ran in to a similar situation when presenting a CMA: after loan modification the monthly payment is significantly higher thus making harder on the home owner to make the mortgage payments.

Where is the brain in all of this?

Why not extend the amortization from 30 years to 40 years so the payments would be lower and people could afford to stay in their homes instead of going into a short sale and consequently into a foreclosure.

Perhaps the banks should employ the underemployed real estate agents to help them run the show.

If we can understand the negative impact of loan modification on the homeowner, why don't they get it?

 

 

 

10:56am • #14
255,492 Points 4 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

I hope it works out for your clients. I think anyone who puts down less than 10% ought to be required to take a financial management class.  Of course...the bank is in business to make money...just like the credit card companies.

10:58am • #15
271,543 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Phil, your words of wisdom are always much appreciated.  Adding on all of the penalties and late payments is a tough tactic employed by the bank, at the end of the loan modification the owner is probably going to take whatever they can get and the bank knows it.

11:07am • #16
1 Featured Post

I think I heard once that within 12-18 months, individuals who did a loan mod are right back in the mix of foreclosure.  Sad statement.

11:09am • #17
1 Featured Post

Phil,

From the way HAMP works, along with the banks, it seems as thought they're setting people up for failure.

11:18am • #18
161,232 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

JP:  Great "success" story even though it did not result in a listing for you (and resulted in higher payments for your clients). But in the end, your clients were able to keep their home.  I wish that these stories of people saving their homes were more common.  The way the banks are handling these situations makes no sense whatsoever.

11:19am • #19
536,135 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

I am hearing from some frustrated people on the loan modifications lately.

11:24am • #20

Unfortunately several parts of our economy are making an impact on our homeowners and more and more are entering into the loan modification system only to find they will pay for their 'breather room".

Higher payments are pretty common place for loan mods- not really covered on the news, HUD website, HopeNow website, etc., so consumers are shocked at the process.

http://lennoxscottblog.com/2010/07/08/the-myth-of-%e2%80%9cskin-in-the-game%e2%80%9d/

Unfortunately, the myth still exists that it had to do with low down payments.

11:42am • #21
672,395 Points 69 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I have been way less than impressed with most of the modifications that I have seen pass before my eyes.

12:03pm • #22
731,664 Points 144 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

What a neat concept! Lose your job? Out of money? Let the federal gov't step in, bend you over and increase your mortgage payment.. all the while making it so complicated, unrealistic and far fetcheched that Alan Greenspan is just as confused about this as he was the Wall Street Scam with securites.

BARF!

12:18pm • #23
3 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Basically, they got a forebearance and are making up the missed payments. Your client is the rare exception ... able to now make the payment, and willing to do so. This is the face of loan modifications. Lengthy, convoluted processes with no apparent set of rules. Only 1 in 5 mods convert from trial program to permanent. And 3 out of 4 of those redefault within a year. Less than 1 percent of permanent loan mods include principal reduction. The banks don't want to do them because it simply delays the inevitable. Too many homeowners stay in loan-mod land for too long, and when the rejection comes, it's often too late to short sale the property. Loan mods are a myth.

At least your clients got to keep their house. Good for them!

12:52pm • #24
8 Featured Posts

I think the process has been stream-lined somewhat for most large institutions...I have been through several with my associates and it seems the rules and paperwork always change mid-stream. One client had to turn in paperwork 3 times over a 14 month period only to be denied, The Reason: they were current on their mortgage. This was a property that appraised out at $555,000 with a mortgage balance of $614,000...

1:23pm • #25
105,437 Points Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Talked with a friend the other day, trying to go through modification process after losing employment.  Have had to send in same documentation 3-5 times.  Bank says it didn't get one piece of paperwork, though admit they have another that was sent in same batch.  Then, when supervisor checks papers are there, only to get shuffled to someone else the next month with request for the same documents again.  Also seems to be confusion as to where they are supposed to contact bank -- customer service, or modification center -- documents sent out change every month or so.

1:50pm • #26
724,101 Points 223 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Eddie- This was Bank Of America. Streamlined it wasn't. 

Brian, yes, it was nothing more than a forbearance. 

Greg- Government solutions are oxymoronic. And, yes, nauseating. 

 

1:50pm • #27
341,792 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Phil, I hate to say it but I agree with Deborah. This story plays again over and over with different characters.

4:28pm • #28

Phil,

I had folks with a similar situation and they are delighted to be keeping the home they love. They are again walking tall.  Here's hoping that both parties experience full employment and can continue to regularly pay their mortgages!

4:34pm • #29

I've seen lots of modifications where the new payment is higher than the old payment. All the numbers that fly around about the number of successful modifications banks are doing include these ridiculous modifications that increase the payments. We will never know how many modifications are given with lower payments because it's just not great PR. In my experience I see about 3 out of 10 getting significantly lower payments.

4:55pm • #30
861,456 Points 76 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

You would think bank staff would try to help people understand the process. It is frustrating how many of them just don't seem to care.

6:41pm • #31
252,428 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I am so appreciative of your observations. I've maintained more clarity, working with others, than I can in dealing with my own property, soon to foreclose. It's been a 20-month, grueling, BAC maze that led nowhere, even AFTER their approval & notarized paperwork a year ago...[oops! that just didn't happen!]. I've finally realized that it's the blind leading the blind, not having a trained staff---but who can understand the nonsense anyway?  Thank you for sharing this. It helps to clear my head!

 

7:20pm • #32
258,715 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

For the most part, loan mods are a joke. I called to inquire about mine, just for fun. Long story short, they said sure, we can help you out. My 5.75% rate would go down to 5%, saving me about $165/ month. He said I should be very happy about this. I asked more questions, like, is an appraisal needed? (yes) What are my costs? (only about $52-5400) Escrow, I don't have one now? (yes, you'll need to set one up). All of this boiled down to about $10,000 out of pocket for a $165/month savings. That is until I asked about PMI. He was silent. He said it would only be about $100/month or so. I told him i'd keep my loan just the way it is.

7:56pm • #33
577,905 Points 15 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Philip - this sounds similar to my situation last year in many ways. Accepted the loan modification, no HAMP in place at all at the time, and higher payments. Up until this year, perfectly fine, but now with less money to work with each month, totally unacceptable. So back we go. Oh, well.

10:20pm • #34
228,051 Points 9 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Lucky folks.

They 'Stay & No Paid' but got to keep their home in the end.

 

11:20pm • #35

I do these every day and I still do NOT understand how the bank thinks this makes ANY sense???

11:38pm • #36
SEP
09
2010
257,758 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Things just keep getting tougher, tighter and more frustrating.  I hope and pray your home owners are able to stay and make it work.

12:03am • #37
1,007,488 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I guess it's fortunate that your clients get to keep their home but so unfortunate that it had to happen this way.

12:23am • #38
132,233 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Wow! The banks need to get better standards and rules on loan mods!

1:37am • #39
724,101 Points 223 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Folks- 

THANK YOU for all your comments, emails, subscriptions and associations. I will post more responses tomorrow. Good night!

1:39am • #40
437,683 Points 35 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

JPF:

This subject is baffling because it is solvable, yet the powers that be..... let it stay broken or incompetent. Why? The stats are in on how inefficient the terms and the systems are. Unfortunately, this tells us that other stats exist that point the way to failure of these programs down the line. That is probably why they just trudge along in the Grey area......thank you

11:21am • #41
277,620 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

It is good to hear that sometimes the home owner actually wins.....or sort of wins.  It would be nice if banks simply used common sense.

7:39pm • #42

What does the graphic say?

Leave a response…



(optional)
What does the graphic say?
 
Phil-4crop Rainmaker_large

J Philip Faranda, Broker-Owner

Briarcliff Manor, NY

More about me…

J. Philip Faranda (J. Philip R.E. LLC) Westchester County NY

Address: 522 North State Road , Suite 100, Briarcliff Manor, NY, 10510

Office Phone: (914) 762-2500

Email Me

J. Philip Faranda is based in Briarcliff Manor, NY. His market covers Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, & Dutchess counties. Almost 100 clients and customers had closed transaction in 2009-2010 from his efforts. Ever the high-producing listing agent, he counts among his specialities hard to sell properties & short sales. You can reach him at (914) 723-8900.

CDPE

Search the MLS Like an Agent!
Add me to your Google+ circles!

Testimonials
113201
' There is no doubt in my mind that the house would still be on the market if it wasn't for Phil's proactive efforts. '
5.0/5.0
by drmoi
109285
' Phil was very responsive to our requests; he was very professional and respectful; he always gave us his honest opinion on the questions we asked. ... more '
5.0/5.0
by junglegirlnyc
106920
' Phil is a very honorable and respectful realtor. He has gone way above and beyond the call of duty for me not only once, but twice. He helped sell ... more '
5.0/5.0
by MommyJ9

J Philip Far…

View J Philip Faranda's profile on LinkedIn

Follow jphilipfaranda on Twitter


Become a fan on Facebook

Listen to internet radio with activebob on Blog Talk Radio


Listings

Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog