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Bummer - Just had a deal crash . . .

This was a deal in which I have a 1st time home Buyer buying a wonderful little house that is REO (Foreclosure). When we made our offer, the bank was rigid on price but agreed to all other terms and timelines, so we proceeded in the usual way.

We Did a home inspection within the alloted time frame and found 2 significant issues . . . Air conditioning was not working . . . and crawl space had water and significant fungus/mold . . .

We prepared an inspection release requiring these repairs and delivered it to the listing agent only 5 days after the Binding agreement date (The contract allowed us 10 days).

Per the contract, the seller would have 3 days to respond to our release.

that was 6 weeks ago, and we STILL have not received a response in writing.

Here's what happened during that 6 weeks.

Asset Manager verbally told the listing agent that they would only consider repairing items that were required by an appraiser or underwriter (NOTHING about this in the Purchase agreement).

We had the lender go ahead and order the appraisal and communicated the deficiencies . . . 2 weeks later, we had those requirements . . . forwarded them to the Listing agent.

The REO bank then said they required 2 bids for the repairs before they would agree to anything . . . after much scrambling, we had the bids required within a week.

2 more weeks pass with no news . . .

Then the call came . . . The asset Manager now says the bank will make NO REPAIRS and will not pay ANY money towards repairs.

so . . . Is this the way the banks feel they can play ball?

Are they immune from the terms of contracts they sign?

This bank dragged a 1st time Buyer, 2 REALTORS, a Lender, 2 title Companies, 4 contractors, an inspector, an appraiser and Lord knows how many other people through a 6 week ordeal that never should have happened . . . Much time wasted . . . Much money wasted . . . and a 1st time Buyer with a VERY bitter taste in her mouth about this process of buying a home.

This is nothing but bad business, and this is just one of MANY similar stories.

Now that I have vented (Just be glad I didn't write the stronger words I have for this experience) . . . I'm wondering.

Are banks really exempt from contractual agreements?

They seem to have full authority to change commission structures to fit their desires . . . and they appear to have absolutley ZERO regard for the written agreement.

Are they bullet proof?

What do they have to lose?

This kind of behavior is not the stuff that's going to positively affect the economy. The government and Taxpayers have spent gobs of money bailing these banks out stimulus . . . and the Tax credit initiative encouraged lots of Buyers to perform earlier than "natural" (Borrowed a bunch of Buyers from the future - which is NOW).

so . . . Now we have fewer Buyers in the game . . . and the banks still have a bajillion distressed loans in their pipelines . . . Why would they risk pissing off the few Buyers in the market with these kinds of shenanigans?

Anyone else have a good story?

I'm just sayin'

Best,

b

PS - I have another sad story with the same 1st time Buyer - Made an offer @ $112,000 on a property listed @ $115,000 . . . The offer was refused and the Buyer moved on . . . that property is now listed at $89,000 and has since incurred serious storm damage to the roof and eaves . . . There's another irresponsible bank who has lost at least $40,000 . . . and still bleeding

Barry Owen
Real Estate Broker
Professional Coach
Pareto Realty
Nashville, TN

615.502.2080
www.paretorealty.co
Call me: 615-568-2123
email me: barryo@comcast.net
Visit The Owen Group http://www.theowengroup.net


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24 Comments on Contractual timelines & Terms - Do Banks and Asset managers have immunity? #in

SEP
03
2010
848,842 Points 153 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Wow, a feature and no comments. Pretty cool, Barry.

I have found here in MIchigan that banks move along fairly well in REO properties. However, in this case they did not. I wonder if it has anything to do with TN not having as many foreclosures to deal with?

If they weren't going to do any repairs they should have said so up front and not wasted everyone's time.

Up here in Mi, once an offer is verbally accepted, you receive the Bank Addendums a few days later, and that plainly states that the Bank Addendums supercede the local contracts.

We are closing on a REO today that had a flood and the banks fixed it all, new paint, carpet, etc....

8:33am • #1
1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp

When you said buyer agreed to all other terms does than mean a seller addendum too? The seller addendum is typically where banks have all of their "bulletproof" material or at least state that they will no be making repairs.

8:55am • #2
197,544 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Barry, in my experience, the buyers should have had an inspector in PRIOR to signing any contract, because the "as is" addendum wipes out the likelihood of the bank making repairs (right or wrong). As evidence of Missy's comment, repairs *might* be made if it precludes being able to close on the house- but if the as is addendum was signed by the buyers, they should have known in advance that repairs were unlikely- particularly in the case of an AC unit. With respect to mold, some mitigate it, others simply require a cash purchaser- sounds like the direction that bank went. I could be missing something- or, it could be different in NY. Either way, it's a sad situation for your buyer- next time, do the inspection after the as is (which here, is sent out first to make clear the bank's position), but before the contract (?)- might save some heartache.

9:05am • #3
398,590 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Barry, this is one of the reasons that I'm not crazy about working these deals.  It doesn't seem right that the bank could do this but, my guess is, that there is a document that says they can supercede the contract. 

9:06am • #4
1,180,274 Points 133 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I find that banks respond better to "lender required repairs".  All of our bank purchases are "as-is".  I have had *some* luck when something happens to the property (like theft) after we are in escrow.

9:07am • #5
322,358 Points 23 Featured Posts

Oh!

Just for the record . . . This particular Bank did NOT have an "As-Is" addendum . . . only a "Contract Summary" page that defined the final terms of the original agreement.

I would not have done ANY of the above due diligence had I known anything about as-is.

Funny thing . . . I don't rant and rave much on my blog-site . . . One of the few times I do, I get featured - I'm usually a tad more up-beat and positive :-)

9:58am • #6
1 Featured Post

Unfortunately, yours is a variation of stories I hear weekly here in Arizona.  Until someone figures out a way to hold the banks accountable, they will continue to write their own rules as they go. 

 

10:07am • #7
134,201 Points

I feel your pain, but I have never seen a contract that requires a seller to do any repairs. Common sense would tell you they would take care of them because they aren't going to go away. But common sense and REO don't usually go hand in hand.

10:38am • #8
4 Featured Posts

As a lender dealing with short sales is becoming a nightmare.

I have been working on a deal since APRIL.  We were clear to close for the June 30th deadline.   We still have not closed waiting on the short sale approval.  

We finally got it last week.  Guess what.... they are demanding we close in two weeks and claiming the deal is off if we don't comply.  WTF?   It has taken them so long, the appraisal from the original CTC is not even valid anymore, so we now have to get a new appraisal.  They better hope value hasn't fallen.

This is a 20% down A paper deal.  What is their alternative?  Foreclosure?  Yet they are making demands like there aren't umpteen thousands of other units to choose from.

 

10:44am • #9
134,886 Points Outside Blog

It's this attitude from the bank that has contributed to the mess. They feel that holding the property is holding all the cards, and in the short term, small picture they are right. However, as banks continue to fail. Here in Utah, we see what you describe all the time, both in response time and in attitude. We also deal with the same price "hit" when a bank (usually relying on a BPO from someone unfamiliar with our local market) rejects an offer that is in line with value. I've actually advised several clients to wait, rather then bite on a banks price, knowing that eventually, it'll show up priced where it should be. Good post

10:47am • #10
Outside Blog Hit Router

It's amazing the different guidelines that the lenders have. I have to say that most of it still doesn't make a lot of sense as they scramble to undo the damage they've created in this housing market. Yes, the consumer should have been aware of what they were getting into when they were offered 100% financing at the top of the market...but then again, they aren't industry insiders so they didn't see it coming like the rest of us (and that statement includes the lenders).

I recently had a transaction with (insert lender here) . Before we even had to address any repairs, and the buyer actually was going to take the property in its as is condition, the bank OFFERED $3,000 for misc. repairs! It would have been nice if the lender had actually offered that credit toward the payoff of the 2nd. The 2nd was $7500 as they offered them $2,000. Both agents who worked this deal had to pay an additional $1,000 to satisfy the 2nd lien holder.

The banks are slow to awaken to how our contract works. Let's face it, they're in the business to loan money, not own homes.

Someone needs to find them an in house broker to advise their legal department as well. Just sayin' ;-)

 

11:03am • #11
402,841 Points 23 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Hi Barry,

Sad Story, Great post, and thanks for sharing with us.

Your post does make me happy in one way, Here in Victoria BC Canada, we have very few foreclosures, and they are all regulated by the courts so the process is very organized structured and banks or any one else can't pull fast ones.

Happy Selling.

11:38am • #12
322,358 Points 23 Featured Posts

Linda . . . I LOVE that . . . "Phanntastic Victoria Homes"

12:14pm • #13
339,566 Points 27 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I have one foreclosue I sold last month - my e-mail file of correspodnence relating to that sale is incredibly huge.  I keep being told that banks are not in real estate and thus the process is confusing.  And remember, banks wanted to get into real estate a few years ago??

1:04pm • #14
1 Featured Post

A reminder... Although the banks don't play by the rules often, if you felt your buyer was in danger then it's best to advise in their best interest and warn them that continuing without guarantee when the timeline is running out could have a negative impact. It sound like the Asset Management company for that bank wasn't doing a very good job either though. All of this should have been covered with your buyer prior to writing the contract. There are multiple risks involved including that most addendums even say the Servicer can pull the listing at anytime, even under contract... that means your buyer could be 3 days from escrow and lose the house because the servicer pulled the listing.

I have a suggestion for everyone... The next time you get extensive addendum from an REO purchase, sit down in an office meeting and spend that time going over all the nuiances of the addenda. You'd be surprised what you find. Keep in mind though that the addendum seems to change on a monthly basis but the core is almost always the same, "Protect the Bank".

1:05pm • #15
2 Featured Posts Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Its as much the banks fault as it is the listing agent. In my opinion we need to clean house and get ethical asset managers & ethical listing agents into the positions now filled with corrupt and greed!

1:07pm • #16
1 Featured Post

"We also deal with the same price "hit" when a bank (usually relying on a BPO from someone unfamiliar with our local market)"...

Again, most Brokers/Agents think this is ridiculous process when they don't know all the facts. There are always 2 BPO's usually done. One is by the soon to be listing Agent from that area. The 2nd is supposed to be by an out-of-area agent... Why? Because area agents are sometimes too subjective. An out-of-area is objective and the bank wants to ensure an honest BPO. Everyone is quick to blame the bank but not so quick to blame another agent as a result of the banks actions. REO agents scam banks all the time from moving in friends to vacant properties in an attempt to get a "cash for keys" to low-balling BPO's in an attempt to get their own investors friends a great deal. Some agents will delay offers to try and puch their own offer through. There's a dozen different reasons and the bank as a precaution has to wtch for all of them and as a result had to create procedure that none of us like.

And I do blame banks in partial for the Current Real Estate Market, but what ever happened to Consumer Responsibilty? 90% of the REO listings I take were by flippers or people that took out HELOC's to go on spending sprees and then got in over their heads. Credit is not a right but a responsibilty...

1:15pm • #17
1 Featured Post

"Its as much the banks fault as it is the listing agent. In my opinion we need to clean house and get ethical asset managers & ethical listing agents into the positions now filled with corrupt and greed!"

 

That's an excellent broad generalization of the few you've encoutered. Then maybe we need to get rid of the buyers agents that do little to educate themselves or their client on the process but do plenty to condemn it...

1:17pm • #18
1 Featured Post

The catch-22 is that the remedies available for contractual violators are insufficient. No buyer is going to want to go to court suing a bank for specific performance. So the bank is in the drivers seat.

If I were an agent hoping to work on REO or short sale deals, I would only work with investors as buyers.

1:28pm • #19

I have had a number of REO's that will just drag on...even with a ton of hen pecking from both agents.   Then "pow" we are closing in 7 or 10 days..oh by the way we also need (insert obscure information here) before we will close.  I usually prepare my clients by telling them.  Yes it is a great property at a great price, the REO company is going to make you jump through hoops until after closing .  Don't be surprised if something pops up the day before closing. 

I do agree investors usually take hoop jumping much more philosophically than non investors.

 

4:07pm • #20
937,515 Points 361 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Barry, ALL REOs are sold "as is". They are definitely not for the faint of heart and I would be hesistant to put a first time homebuyer on one.  After the bank didn't respond during the 3 day time period the buyer could have executed thier right to cancel the contract and get their deposit back. Once they took no action all bets were off and the time periods expired. So I would argue that even though what the bank did sucked they probably did not break the terns of the contract. Unless the contract stated that the seller would do repairs up to a certain dollar amount.

Of course I am not an attorney and this comment is just my opinion. In fact, I may very well be talking out of my....... :)

5:39pm • #21
1 Featured Post

Barry - just went through very similar situation with a Buyer and Fannie Mae asset manager!  Oh my, I need to send them your blog!  After the second response came back with the "must be required by appraiser as a condition to close", I advised my Buyers to either make the repairs themselves, or move on.  Luckily for us, the repairs were not as serious as yours appear to be, but again, I echo your frustration.  Do these guys get to make their own rules?  maybe we need another King Arthur to challenge the practice of "Might makes Right".

 

Best of success to you and your Buyers.

10:07pm • #22
SEP
04
2010
217,274 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

The bottom line is that the banks are in the driver's seat.

1:24pm • #23
SEP
05
2010
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Hmmm.  Let's see which deal fits...

The latest REO - cash deal where the bank countered back a 14 day COE.  OK, we can do that.  Of course we have the "we'll send the executed contract in a few days,  proceed like you have one" email.  That same email states they need 72 hours to process the final HUD1 for approval of the sale.  Except we don't get the executed contract until noon, the day before we are supposed to close.  Missed that deadline.  So we do a 7 day extension.  We were supposed to close last Tuesday.  Except a bad storm came through on Saturday.  We did the final walkthru on Sunday.  Parts of the roof were in the driveway.  Now we need to get estimates to Fannie Mae - thankfully there is a clause in their addendum about risk of loss.  On Friday, I got the latest email from the LA.  The lender will take $X dollars off the purchase price if the seller accepts as is and makes their own repairs.  (I had already gotten my contractors to give me estimates so I knew the price was a good discount)

We'll be closing on Wednesday.  (I hope)

11:04pm • #24

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Barry Owen

Nashville, TN

More about me…

Pareto Realty

Address: Nashville, TN, 37215

Office Phone: (615) 502-2080

Cell Phone: (615) 568-2123

Email Me

Stream of consciousness commentary on the real estate industry from the perspective of a Principal Real Estate Broker and Founder of Pareto REalty, LLC in Middlle Tennessee - Also a Career Development Coach with vast Organizational Development/Transformation training and experience - in the industry since 1993


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