Earlier this morning I wrote a post called, "A Hand Up Vs. A Hand Out" that dealt with the current foreclosure messHand out of the cookie jar! and what would be the best way to deal with it.  I got some very good comments that I was going to comment on, but decided that it would be better to put it in the form of a follow up post.  So, here it is.  This is a very important issue, or at least should be if you're involved in the real estate field, so I hope that people pick up on it and we can work together to come up with a workable solution.

Rob Wesler pointed out that there is a lot more trouble coming down the pike and I agree with him.  As he pointed out, lenders were funding these high LTV 2/28's and 3/27's pretty much up to just a few months ago.  This is one reason that I think that we need to look at reality as it is, not as we would want it to be.  The reality is that this is a huge problem.  Big enough to where the effects are spilling over on to people who didn't take out one of these mortgages.

water spilling over like problems in the mortgage industryI recently took a home that I own off of the market because I couldn't sell it for $15,000 less than what the comparable said that it should sell at.  My next door neighbor removed his home from the market and canceled a contingency contract that he had on another home for the same reason.  

James Gordon  left, what I took as a tongue in cheek, comment when he asked, "Bob why don't we all ask for a check from the government because of the value we lost in our homes?"  Melissa Grant dittoed his question.  And while I understand the sentiment here, in that nobody likes the idea of the government doling out money indiscriminately in order to make up for somebody's bad behavior or maybe just bad luck, I think that it's a legitimate role of government to step in and help in these particular circumstances.

I base my believe upon the preamble to the United States Constitution which states,

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domesticPreamble to the Constitution Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

In stepping up to the plate to deal with this issue, I believe that the government will be insuring domestic tranquility and promoting the general welfare of the people.   

Real Estate makes up a huge percentage of the Gross Domestic Product, not to mention the other positives that home ownership provides to individuals, families, communities and the country as a whole.  So, while I understand James and Melissa's concern, I don't see any reason that a program designed to assist those facing foreclosure to work themselves out of their difficulties and to provide stability to the real estate market by controlling the influx of distressed properties on to the market would be considered a "hand out" as opposed to a "hand up"!

Gary Miljour , who hails from that den of liberalism and compassion known as Maricopa county Arizona, expressed his moral reservations of people not taking responsibility for their own actions.  To this, I understand and agree Tents in the desert house prisoners in Maricopa Countywith him 100%.  There were a lot of people who got into this mess for no other reasons that greed and lack of forethought!  That said, there were also a lot of people who had no reason to suspect that anything funny was going on in how Wall Street securitized these mortgages.  

I can think of one couple in particular that I put on a 2/28, 100% LTV mortgage.  He had never had a late payment in his life and only had 2 charge cards, both of which only had low credit limits.  Both of the cards carried balances on them that were close to his limit (something like $300.00 and $500.00).  The end result was that his credit score was only in the high 500's.

The wife had several years before gone through a divorce and had clicked several 30 and 60 day late payments as her and the ex husband duked it out as to who was going to be responsible for paying these debts.  The divorce had been final for over 4 years and all of these cards had been paid in full.  Her sin was that she had not attempted to reestablish credit since then.  

Both spouses worked (ratios were good) and they had an excellent rental history.  She was pregnant at the time and instead of using their limited savings (they had about $10,000 saved up) they decided to keep their money in their pocket to cover the time that she was going to miss from work when she had the baby and to fix up a nursery in the home after they closed on it.

We sat down and went over their options and decided that a 2/28, 100% LTV loan with no pre-payment penalty was their best option.  She agreed to open a couple of charge card accounts in order to reestablish her credit and he agreed to start paying his charge cards off on a monthly basis (he had no idea that he was doing anything "wrong" by carrying a balance on his cards.  As a matter of fact, he thought that he was being responsible by only having cards with low credit limits and by making his payments every month - go figure?).  

My point is that these folks don't deserve to lose their home when they can't refinance because the value of their home has temporarily (my prediction there) gone down, putting them in a negative equity position.  I don't remember the adjustment that they are going to face, but I'm sure that it's not going to be pretty!

Yeah, some sleeze balls are going to sneak in here and figure out how to game the system, but we can work to keep that to a minimum and in the mean time help a lot of good people, ourselves included, out in the process.  In short, we can promote the general welfare and insure domestic tranquility and that is a legitimate role for government!  

 

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

 

PS. Broker Bryant also commented with a suggestion that maybe FHA could step in and help with a program that would screen for people who refinanced and took all of their equity out within the last three years.  To me this is a tough one, I can definately see Bryant's point here, but I wouldn't want to make that a die hard rule of the program because some people might have had legitimate reasons for cashing out their equity such as college tuition, medical bills, etc..  I would think that any program would have to have a set of rules in place to make sure that we weren't subsidizing bad behavior such as providing deposit insurance for a federal bank that according to it's parent company is there to support it in it's time of trouble...bet you can't guess which large mortgage company I'm talking about!

 

7 Comments on A Hand Up vs. A Hand Out 2

AUG
27
2007
3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
I agree, there is a difference between an hand-up and a hand- out. These people need help. The government would probably spend less money helping these homeowners than on some of the trivial projects they fund. This is serious and the government needs to step in.
10:48am • #1
284,783 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Bob, it should be noted that at the time the constitution was written, "welfare" meant faring well, i.e., doing OK.  It didn't have the connotation of payouts, as welfare does today.  Having said that, it wouldn't hurt for lenders to have a bit more liberal workout policy when good borrowers get into situations beyond their control.
10:58am • #2

Another lender put a potential client (a lawyer!) into a 2 year ARM with a 3 year pre-pay.  In order for her to refi her now 10% mortgage, she has an $18,000 prepay penalty.  In Maryland you can't have a prepay if the original interest rate is over 8%.  Unfortunately, this doesn't cover all the folks that will be well above 8% when their rate resets.  This borrower has decided to borrow against her IRA to be able to make the increased payments for the next year, then will be able to refinance.  She will probably have another adjustment in 6 mos.!

It sure seems that lenders shouldn't be allowed to have a pre-pay penalty that is longer than the fixed rate period.  Rather than a handout or handup, let's regulate the lenders and limit or eliminate the prepay penalty if the loan adjust by more than 1% in a year.  I haven't found a lender that will negotiate one yet!

11:53am • #3
128,159 Points 4 Featured Posts

To me the discussion needs to move beyond pointing fingers at personal , corporate and government  responsibility and move in the direction of common sense.  The milk has already been spillied.  It now comes down to everyone stopping pointing fingers and figuing out a win/win solution.

With 1 in 10 people in the United States involved in the building and Real Estate industry - the fallout from this has the potential to be like nothing we have ever seen in our lifetimes. 

The goal should be to keep as many people in their homes as possible and limit the number of foreclosures.  If that means that everyone compromises and gives a little there is nothing wrong with that.

Until we get past the finger pointing nothing can get done.  Let's get on with on and work towards a solution that doesn't lead us into a depression!

12:47pm • #4
147,487 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Thanks for the comments! 

Lori:  Thanks for the vote of support!

Brian and Bridget:  The problem is that the lenders have their hands tied.  The institutions who purchase these mortgages actually own them.  The "lender" is simply servicing the note.  They CANT change the terms of the agreement because they don't own the note anymore.  That would be like the investor who purchased the mortgage deciding that he/she needed a better rate of return and then asking the lender to change the interest rate that the borrower has.  It simply can't be done.

That's how come the government has to get involved, to encourage the note holders (we know that the borrowers who are stuck will be willing to work this out) to modify the terms.  If that can't be done, the government needs to buy the note from them and make the necessary changes to get this situation resolved!

Man, if the lawyer can't get out of this bind, what's in it for the rest of us! ;-)

Kate: I agree with you about the finger pointing to a certain extent.  I do think that the public needs to know that this "meltdown" was more a Wall Street thing than a Main Street thing.  Maybe then people wouldn't be so quick to view the people who are caught up in this mess as deadbeats.

 

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

 

10:14pm • #5
AUG
28
2007
128,159 Points 4 Featured Posts

Bob - I'm on your side.  I do agree that the government needs to get involved.  I've spent a good number of my posts on AR in the past month arguing this point.  I disagree that Banks can't do something.  That's what loss mitigation is all about.  The problem is that the loss mitigation departments are overworked and under paid.  

Banks should be adding staff to these departments and jumping at the bit to help homeowners stay in their homes.  Problem is that we as a society are short sighted - it's all about the profit - hurry up and get it over with what ever the cost.  I believe that by the time the government gets it's act together to help we'll already be in a depression.

I hope I'm wrong. 

4:42am • #6
147,487 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Kate:  I hope that you're wrong too.  Regarding the loss mitigation departments, I have to admit, I'm not all that familiar with the inner workings of how they interact with the investors who own the note.  From what I understand, and I could be wrong, they are given certain leeway, but not all that much.  The investors who own these mortgages are expecting a certain return on their investment and don't give them that much leeway to recast a mortgage.  It has something to do with the pooling requirements and guild lines.

If somebody has a better sense of how this relationship works, I'd love to know about it.  Please comment or write a post and let me know about it!

Thanks Kate.

 

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

6:27pm • #7

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Bob Mitchell - Realtor St. Louis

Saint Louis, MO

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ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Address: 4251 Martyridge, St. Louis, MO, 63129

Office Phone: (314) 231-5478

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A blog about St. Louis real estate and about real estate in general from a guy who has been selling real estate and doing mortgages since 1984. I'm also the owner of ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. a discount real estate company serving St. Louis since 1995!


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