Yes Mr/Miss/Mrs Agent, I May Need Your Social Security Number, Driver's License, Etc

Rodney - I too had a hard time keeping quiet when I first started blogging here, especially with the known AR Realtor mortgage bashers.  But after having been scolded a few times for disagreeing with some AR old-timer, I realized very quickly that some members opinions are more valuable than others. 

As a result, there certain AR members that I just simply ignore now and I no longer read anything they post.  As far as I am concerned, they are simply ignorant mortgage bashers and I refuse to argue with idiots.  LOL

Rodney - The ones that crack me up are the ones that say they welcome different viewpoints and opinions on their posts when they clearly do NOT!   Anytime someone posts a comment of a different viewpoint or opinion (and mind you, not one that is either right or wrong - just different), that person is chewed up one side, down they other and spit out in the same breath for just having a different opinion or perspective that was "supposedly" welcomed. 

More times than not, all the post author accomplishes in doing that is confirming what an ignorant, intolerant, narrow-minded and hypocritical fool they are.  There's no reasoning with people like that.  Don't let it bother you though because AR is just a smaller version of the population in general.  If you can get through your day ignoring these kinds of people in your day to day dealings, you shouldn't have any problem ignoring them here.  LOL

Great post Rodney, many commenters don't read all of the comments and only make their comments based on the post.  I never heard of this and am glad you (and a couple others) explained it.

Donne, I'm thankful to those, like Rodney, who explained these lists and why a SS# was asked of Donna.  I had never heard of this and now if it ever happens to me (so far, my name is not on the lists) or anyone in my office, I'll be able to explain it to them.  I can understand how you feel about just moving on.  If I had the same group of commenters bashing my opinions, I'd stay out of certain posts, too - not worth the aggravation.  But I always love reading your comments. :)

Hi Rodney.  Thanks for pointing me to this post.  Yesterday I spoke with a lender in my area about this topic.  Fraud is such a broad category.  In addition, I think one of the reasons that AR folks were so fired up on the previous post was that it was new information.  Again, I feel like more knowledge is better for everyone, from clients to agents, officers, etc.

The lender I spoke to yesterday said that if people default on government debt, it could put them on the GSA list.  That would include, not paying income tax, property tax, etc.  He also said that in the past, this requirement has been there, but not executed/enforced consistently, but that it's become more important now with loans.  I don't mean to imply that the loan officer I spoke with yesterday was an authority by any means, but that's what he said.  Hence my questions yesterday. 

So, back to my previous questions for you.  What happens when someone is legitimately on that list?  Does the transaction automatically end right away, or are there protocols in place to help it move foreward? 

What if its an appraiser who hasn't paid his income tax?  Is there a new appraiser hired to move the transaction foreward?  Who then pays the previous appraiser for his work?  How about an inspector?  How about the sellers?  

Does that mean that if you own a home and have committed fraud, that you cannot sell it to someone who needs to purchase using a mortgage (since the seller would benefit from the government backed loan)? 

I'm trying to understand this topic better and the extent and consequences of following it through properly.  

At what point in the process is this check done? Just before closing, after underwriting? Just curious...

Thanks for the additional info, Rodney.  I feel like the protocol hasn't been fully flushed out yet for this topic.  Like most things in real estate, the protocol will probably be developed on a case by case basis.  In a perfect world, we'd know how to deal with all aspects of this up front. 

What I see is potential for big issues coming up.  Can you see them too?  It's not likely that everyone on the GSA list is in jail.  Now, even when taking a listing, it seems, agents would need to have the seller confirm that they haven't defaulted on gov't debt, committed fraud, etc.  'cause that would determine the type of offer they'd be able to accept (cash only, pretty much). 

And again, many in the industry would be out of a job if it really is based on gov't debt, since many contract workers are slow about paying their income tax in a down market.

I didn't blame the lender, but I DO blame the government for breaking their promise that the SSN would NEVER be used for anything other than Social Security or by anyone other than the Social Security Administration.  I DO blame those coming up with this requirement to provide an SSN in this day and age of identity theft - it's one of the most foolish things they could come up with, to require someone who is not a principal to provide their SSN on demand. 

In this instance, the lender is being used to do something that should not be done, pure and simple.   That it's a requirement doesn't make it right, and that needs to be acknowledged, as well.

Rodney, First, I was only given the option of a SSN or TIN. Since I don't have a TIN, as my SSN is my tax identification number, I only had one option, though I asked for others.

Second, I understand what you're saying, but still believe it's BS as you and others keep saying that this has been around for years, but yet this is the first time I've been asked to verify? That makes no sense... I've had this name almost 5 years now and I've been in real estate for 10 years.  Why is it just now coming into play?

Great post, Rodney. I suggested it for a feature because I think more AR users need to read it. Thank you for getting the facts out about this issue.

Rodney, thanks for the clarification and great post.

Rodney,

Like many others I wasn't aware of this being a possible requirement as it is not something I have ever been asked for, despite having been in the business for a number of years.  Without the heads-up in yours and Donna's posts I likely would have made a fool of myself arguing with the first lender that demanded it of me, so thanks for the info. AR is certainly a great place to learn things about this business that somehow manages to escape us in other educational media.

This is interesting information that I did not know.  I am suggesting this for a feature.

I have a different reason I am not happy about the new rule...and not happy with the lender:

I recently came across this issue about 3 or 4 weeks ago.  My name is common (which is why I use my middle name on everything) and I came up on the list.  However, the list does not have middle names.  I made a copy of my drivers license and emailed it over to the loan officer proving it is not me on the list.  I have not heard anything since and figured everything was okay. 

Now it is the day before closing and my buyers are eager to get their closing statement.  TODAY they say that there is a hold up because they need to verify I am not on their GSA list and tell the title company and the buyers that this is the reason there is a hold up!  Because they have to prove that I am not on their "list".  What nerve!   I provided what they said they needed from me without getting frustrated and responded immediately which was 3 or 4 weeks ago now.  Why did they wait until the day before closing to say they need more information.  Now my buyers are starting to question if it actually is me on this so called list.  Thanks a lot Wells Fargo... 

I did everything I was supposed to do and in a timely manner.  How dare you (lender with Wells Fargo) call me at the last second and tell everyone that it is ME (or rather my name) that is holding up the process!!!!