If you are writing a contract and want the seller to pay some of the buyers closing costs on a VA loan you must be very careful how you word your offer.  On a VA deal there are a number of costs that the seller (or third party) must pay, they are called the borrowers non allowables. 

 

If there is no mention of them in a VA purchase contract then the seller must pay them.  If you ask for the sellers to pay for some of the borrowers closing costs then you should word this request some thing like this " Seller shall pay $4,000 towards the buyers closing costs and prepaids".  Do not say "Seller shall credit buyer $4,000 at closing" as this can be construed as going towards the buyers non allowables and will lessen considerably the net effect to the buyer.

 

P.S.  I am not a lawyer and not an expert on Real Estate Contracts and you might want to check with your Broker or with a Real Estate Lawyer.

 

Good Luck, Good Lending, and Aloha

 

 

29 Comments on Seller paid costs on a VA loan

SEP
03
2007
489,409 Points 84 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
I have had a couple of offers come in recently where they used brokers for VA loans.  In both cases they request huge credits from the seller.  In both cases I questioned how they would use the credit, being that a VA was 100% financing.  They said it was to cover the lender fees.  They need to call your company.  I have never seen anything even close to that from your company.  I can not believe what they are charging can even be legal.
1:05pm • #1
381,660 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

HHmmm,

Good point Bruce. Thanks for the "heads-up".

Sean Allen

1:06pm • #2
425,384 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bruce,

Good point. Simple and useful. Thanks,   Fran

1:10pm • #3
5 Featured Posts

Hi Randy -- The non allowables are the escrow fee, any processing fee, tax service and notary, period.  Thanks for commenting.  Aloha

Hi Sean -- Please find your self a lona officer that knows how to do VA loans and sit down for a cup of coffee wtih him.  These loans are the greatest for an eligible veteran.  Aloha

1:11pm • #4
5 Featured Posts
Hi Fran -- Thanks and see my comments to Sean above.  Aloha
1:12pm • #5
434,724 Points 70 Featured Posts Outside Blog

BB,

I use this wording " seller to contribute _______towards buyers closing costs and prepaids at time of closing"

1:24pm • #6
5 Featured Posts
Hi Scott -- That phrase is spot on and will always get you the reuslts you are looking for.  Aloha
1:28pm • #7
322,655 Points 40 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Bruce--In MN we have a form that allows us to write in an amount and check off whether it is for closing costs or prepaids. It is phrased very similar to you have written above.

I did have a closer for the buyer on a VA loan try to get over the $5000 written into the offer by claiming that since in a VA loan the closing fee must be paid by the seller and therefore it was not a buyers cost and cannot be part of the $5000. This made it so the seller would be required to pay $5250. (My closer ended up reducing her fee so that my sellers were not overcharged.)

Make certain the wording is very specific.

3:14pm • #8
5 Featured Posts
Hi Teri -- If you are working with a Realtor whoo is not familiar with VA ask your lender for a list of costs that must be paid by the seller or a third party.  Aloha
3:37pm • #9

Bruce nice post, I liked the disclaimer too!

Christopher Pike, Realtor

3:52pm • #10
5 Featured Posts
Hi Christopher -- I see so many contracts that meant well but accomplished nothing to  help the buyer.  I do have to put the disclaimer in  however.  Aloha
3:56pm • #11
2 Featured Posts
Thankfully the NVAR contract has a seller subsidy section that is very clear.
3:59pm • #12
5 Featured Posts
Hi Stacy -- Our contract out here does not have that section in it and that is whyh it is so necessary to get the wording right.  Aloha
7:06pm • #13

Just last week one of my agents participated in a contract situation where the seller, who is an attorney, would not pay the required VA fees for the buyer, who happens to be a retiring Navy E8.  The buyer agreed to raise the purchase price so he himself could pay the fee.  What a shame.  It was a signed, done, deal when I heard about it.

 

10:43pm • #14
5 Featured Posts
I am so sorry this happened.  Please know that the attorney violated the terms of the contract.  If he accepeted a VA offer he accepted paying the fees.  I would take the cheap b*****d to small claims court as he would lose.  Aloha
10:51pm • #15
SEP
04
2007

Bruce, I am with you.  The Buyer and his family have to find a place and get moved since he is retiring from the Navy and they wanted this house so bad (which is hard to imagine given the huge inventory available now) that they agreed to raise the purchase price enough to cover it . . . so it looks like the Seller is actually paying it.  What a crock eh?

 

8:40am • #16
5 Featured Posts
Hi Mickey -- I feel so badly for the sailor.  That cheap lawyer could certainly afford the costs. I hope it comes back to him in spades.  Please thank the sailor for his service.  Aloha
10:35am • #17
1 Featured Post
Good post Bruce it let to some good comments.
10:40am • #18

Bruce - I am confident that in the whole scheme of this life we will reap what we sow.  I am certain that in the end these Sellers will get what they truly deserve.

 

 

10:43am • #19
5 Featured Posts
Amen Mickey, I could not agree more.  Aloha
10:55am • #20
SEP
10
2007
141,468 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Bruce-This is why I like to stay in touch with my lender.  Once the buyer is comfortable for what they want to offer, I like to make sure that the terminology will be correct in the contract so I talk to the lender to make sure.  Once the contract is submitted and then accepted, it may be too late for the seller to agree to changing anything especially if it will cost them more $$$.  Aloha,

David Kucic RA, ABR, AHWD, e-PRO, GRI
First Sergeant, USA (Retired)
Tropic Lightning Real Estate, Oahu, Hawaii

1:18am • #21
141,468 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Bruce-This is why I like to stay in touch with my lender.  Once the buyer is comfortable for what they want to offer, I like to make sure that the terminology will be correct in the contract so I talk to the lender to make sure.  Once the contract is submitted and then accepted, it may be too late for the seller to agree to changing anything especially if it will cost them more $$$.  Aloha,

David Kucic RA, ABR, AHWD, e-PRO, GRI
First Sergeant, USA (Retired)
Tropic Lightning Real Estate, Oahu, Hawaii

1:19am • #22
FEB
10

Since most lenders will not finance 100% of the purchase price in high cost areas (loans over 417K) even thought the VA will guarantee up to the high cost limit (25% guarantee), can you use part of the seller concession to cover the down payment requirement of the lender? The VA does not require the down payment but most lenders are overlaying that product with a stricter guideline (thank you Wells Fargo).

miles south
8:28pm • #23
1 Featured Post

Miles—I hope the information below may be helpful to you. Since Bruce's death in 2007 I monitor his blog and post from time to time. He has a wealth of information here that people can still find useful.  I understand, as a loss mitigator, that lenders are tightening their guidelines. Thanks for you post.

Linda Bourgault

Here are some quick facts you may find useful concerning purchase transactions:

  • VA does not have a maximum loan amount.  However, lenders do sell loans on the secondary mortgage market, so they will generally limit loans to $417,000 ($625,500 in Hawaii, Guam, Alaska and U.S. Virgin Islands) with no down payment.  With a down payment, loans may exceed these amounts.
  • The veteran does have to qualify income and credit wise.
  • The veteran does have to occupy the home as their primary residence.
  • The veteran does not have to be a first time home buyer and may reuse his/her benefit.
  • The lender, not VA, sets the interest rate and discount points, so they may vary from lender to lender.
  • There is no private mortgage insurance, but VA does charge an up front VA funding fee, which may be financed.  The exception to this is that if a veteran is in receipt of VA service collect disability payments each month, he or she does not have to pay a VA funding fee.
  • The seller can pay for closing costs.  There is a requirement that seller concessions do not exceed 4%, but only certain items are considered as part of the concession; i.e., payment of pre-paids, VA funding fee, payoff of credit balances or judgments on behalf of the veteran, funds for temporary buydowns (not discount points).
  • The veteran is not allowed to pay for the wood destroying insect (termite) report; it is generally paid by the seller.
  • VA does not approve the majority of loans.  The majority of transactions are handled directly by the lender with little VA intervention.
8:56pm • #24
FEB
24

I just went to a VA loan broker and the closing costs to me on a 54K home were 8468 with 100% LTV. Quincy Adams. Am I taking a loss. Thought the VA paid some of these fees?

Quincy Adams
3:59pm • #25
MAR
28

Hi Linda you said one thing I had a question on in the previous writing of the facts on a VA loan.  Here it is, you said that a "The veteran does not have to be a first time home buyer and may reuse his/her benefit." Now it is my understanding and correct me if I'm off that I can only use the VA loan once.

Tylor Desilet
4:04pm • #26
MAR
30

Hi Bruce, thank you for this post.  I work with alot of military and government that are eligible for VA lending.  Although  in my area there is so much inventory, a majority of the inventory is short sale preforeclosures, or bank owned.  These particular sales are not accepting VA loan offers which is sad because it is a guarantied loan. In addition even in trying to creatively write an offer increasing the purchase price, the banks will not even accept a contract with Seller concessions.  127 properties in the area the veteran is looking in are for sale. 62 of those homes are within criteria and 7 of those are non short sale/bank owned.  Of the 7 we made two offers. Both fell through for different reasons and our offers were actually pretty decent. The sellers with no outstanding mortgages are playing the market in hopes of retaining the best and highest offer including no payouts except for what would be normal.  It really becomes frustrating to the veteran who is getting the 100% financing VA loan.     

Dawnmarie Hatfield
11:07am • #27
1 Featured Post

Hi Tylor—Here's an example how you may use your VA Eligibility:

1. Let's assume you have purchased a home for the first time using your VA Eligibility; you have lived in the house for three years; you are now PCSing to a new assignment and have you home for sale. IF your home is purchased and the purchase price pays off your loan your VA Eligiblity is clear. You can then use it to purchase another primary residence. It can not be a vacation home or an income generating property. You must live in this home as your primary residence. It is your responsiility to make certain that the VA receives the proper documentation to clear your VA benefit in order for you to receive your Certificate of Eligibility again.

You may do this repeatedly under the conditions mentioned above.

However, IF you sell your home as an assumable loan you cannot use your VA Eligibility again until that mortgage has been paid in full. Once it's paid in full you can have your VA Eligibility reinstated.

I hope that answers your question. Have a great week!

I'm Bruce's wife, Linda Bourgault, and maintain his blog, since his death in 2007, for purposes such as this.

6:03pm • #28
1 Featured Post

Hi Dawnmarie—In markets that have a strong military presence lenders are still accepting VA loans. It's to the lenders advantage since VA loans are guaranteed. However, as you say, if sellers are refusing to make any concessions and holding out for best price scenario there isn't anything you can do about it.

One solution is IF your VA buyers have excellent credit and can place a minimum of 10% (up to 25%) down the seller is more likely to accept the offer and the lender will view this as a positive. Today's market, unfortunately, is reflecting a less than trusting attitude at best. Therefore, it may be best for some military people to live on base/post or rent off base/post until the market has time to stabilize. During this time they need to make sure their credit scores are high and to save as much money for a down payment as they can afford. Then, later on down the road, when they want to purchase they will be in a better position to purchase a new home.

I'm a loss mitigator and I can tell you that "trying to creatively write an offer increasing the purchase price" is NOT what a lender wants to see. This is part of the problem that created the down-turn in the market in the first place. Therefore, NOT a good idea to ever, ever use the term "creative" with buyer, seller, or lender!

I'm Bruce's wife, Linda, and maintain his blog, since his death in 2007, for purposes such as this one.

6:22pm • #29

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Bruce Bourgault, Vice President, Mpro

Honolulu, HI

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Central Pacific Homeloans

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