I had a pretty crazy week.   I have done many transactions in my career, but this week two of my borrower's did such egregious acts, that I am at a complete loss.  A third potential borrower wasted hours and hours of my time and his agents.    All three lied.  One committed a criminal act.

Are things really that desperate today?

ACT I:  I am doing an FHA loan for a woman.  She is a single mom and she takes care of her young son and, she told me, her disabled mother.   

The loan was declined through FHA's automated underwriting system so we went for a manual underwrite to get loan approval as we felt the loan had merit. 

There are some credit issues that needed to be explained for us to persuade the underwriter.  

Nearly all of the issues took place around the time that this woman said her mother became permanently disabled, UNABLE TO WORK, and then had to move in with her.  

Having to suddenly care for three people drained her of her finances, created the credit mess, but got through it.  Now she has a better job and its no problem managing her debt. 

Great explanation!    I was certain we would win.

The underwriter asked for some back-up.  A note from the doctor, detailing her mother's disability, she suggested.  The borrower said she would call the doctor. 

A week later she said she could not provide the letter.   She said the Doctor is in Florida and they don't remember his name. 

I then suggested, "how about some of the medical records?"  "They are in storage in Florida," she said.  "And no one has access to the storage unit there." 

I then called a doctor friend of mine, Dr. Simon, and asked him if he could see the borrower's mom and then write his medical opinion.  He said, "no problem." 

I called the borrower and told her Dr. Simon would call her to set up the appointment for her mother.   She was very appreciative.

With the real estate agents on both sides really leaning on me now for answers and the closing date rapidly approaching, I called Dr. Simon and asked that he get her in quickly.  Dr. Simon called her right then.  

Then he called me back minutes later.  "Aaron, the mom can't come in until Tuesday....because that's her NEXT DAY OFF OF WORK."  Unbelievable.

ACT II:   My processor comes into my office on Wednesday with a look of shock on her face. 

I asked, "What's the problem?"   She said, "look at this."   She handed me the borrower's paycheck stub.   It showed that he had made $65,000 so far this year. 

Next she handed me a form we use called a Verification of Employment.  It is filled out by the borrower's employer.  It showed that he had made $45,000 so far this year.    

I called the borrower, thinking that his employer screwed up the form somehow, which is pretty common because it can be confusing.

"Oh, no, that is right...I fabricated the paycheck stub for another lender I was going to use before you," he said.    Incredible.

The sad part is he easily qualifies with the $45,000 and didn't even need the $65,000 forgery. 

ACT III:  An agent I do a lot of business with has been working with a renter for over a month now.   Unfortunately, the guy would not let us pull his credit. 

He simply said his score was in the "600 range" but he had identity theft RECENTLY that he was working with a credit specialist on so he didn't want it pulled.  

He was looking for 100% financing when the time came to buy a house.

Of course, I recommended to the agent that he not waste a lot of time until we pull credit but he liked the guy and felt sorry for his plight.   We did confirm that this prospect makes a great living, with a lot of income, so that was enough for the agent to start showing him houses.

Last week, the borrower finally let us pull his credit.  The score was below 500, which makes him ineligible for anything other than a hard money loan that would likely require a 20-30% down payment.

We also confirmed that the identity theft had happened TEN YEARS AGO in 1997 and had nothing to do with this guy's poor credit history.  He simply doesn't manage his finances correctly.  Four weeks wasted.   Amazing.

The bottom line is it is crucial that you let your clients know that it is of the utmost importance that they be honest with their lender from the very first day, no matter how bad they think their situation is.   

In nearly every case, we are going to find out the truth sometime during the process anyway, so you might as well be truthful upfront.

When the borrower is honest at the beginning, most experienced lenders can work around the bad things and still get you a loan.  When we get blind-sided by lies at the 11th hour, it may kill your deal. 

 

 

 

 

34 Comments on Be Truthful With Your Lender from Day One - Desperate Acts and Lies Can Kill Deals

SEP
08
2007
130,211 Points Outside Blog
why bother to start the process if you are not going to tell the truth??? do you want the loan or not???
8:12pm • #1
SEP
09
2007
SEP
10
2007
3 Featured Posts
Aaron, this is so true!  I always try and get all of the tough information up front so I know how to approach a loan.  Now a days Letter of Explanation almost always have to be in the file upfront!!!
4:44pm • #3
SEP
11
2007
4 Featured Posts

Well Aaron....no need for me to worry about you being eaten as a guinea pig in Peru.....your clients seem to be a doing a good enough job of ripping you apart. Sorry...it happens to the best of us!

12:56am • #4
It always amazes me when the borrower lies to the broker. I am helping them go to the bank, I am on their side. As long as I have the info upfront, I will be able to make everyones life easier. Great post Aaron. 5 stars.
1:39am • #5
4 Featured Posts

Aaron

Great Post,

I have never had a client actually change his paystub.  That is really scary.  This has loan fraud written all over it.  Is it me, or have there been more clients trying to buy homes recently who should not be trying?

 

1:50am • #6
That is a great post- I have a buyer who is buying their first home...problem is that they live 3 hours away and they will not qualify for a first time home buyers deal. This loan would be a second home unless they move here for 6 months prior to writing the offer. They told this to the lender after it went to the underwriters and we were needing to release loan contingencies. Lucky for us,a different lender was able to make the deal go through but a lot of stress and lender "A" wasted their time without compensation. : (
1:56am • #7

Your post was great!  I am always surprised at the things that people pull to try to get their loans approved.  But what surprises me even more is when an agent or mortgage broker are willing to go along with the fraud, and even suggest it.  I recently had a client put in an offer at his maximum approved amount... the seller wanted another $50K and the listing agent actually suggested that the seller carry the financing on the $50K, but without telling the lender, and that they would re-record the trust need with the seller in 3rd position after closing.  (My client was already getting two loans).  To have the listing agent suggest such a thing is just abnoxious.  And the mortgage broker's response was "I don't want to know about it."  It all eventually worked out... the mortgage broker found a lender that would approve my client for the full purchase price, and all ended well. 

I feel like buyers don't get how serious their lies might be.  I think that they don't equate the word lie with FRAUD!  But as professionals, it's our job to make sure that they do what's right, and to make sure that at least we act legally and ethically. 

 Anyhow... sorry for my rant... I just had a flashback to that whole situation, and thought I'd share.

2:21am • #8
11 Featured Posts

Rey--- I recently told my processor to add a "Why I want this loan letter" into all of my files.  I may blog about this but it basically is a letter handwritten from the borrower that explains why this home is so important to them.  Tugging at the heart strings helps in today's stricter lending world.

Bill--- Incredible, huh?

Gary--- I am just shocked that this person would think its ok to do that.   How about the lender who asked him to do it.  No wonder we are in this mess today.

Jill--- Its a lot tougher today to get deals thru underwriting.  Losing them has become a lot more common than it was even a few months ago.   I used to brag that I had only lost one deal in my career after I looked at the credit and that was because a guy lied about his citizenship.   I can't say that anymore. Glad you got it done though!! 

Luba--- It happens every day.  Hundreds of times.   Nearly every state is enacting new tougher legislation to punish people with jail time when this occurs.  When a few of these guys get convicted for felonies and have to do time, I can assure you it will be all over the news to set an example and we will see some of it go away.

2:46am • #9
1 Featured Post

It atsounds me when people lie when dealing with lenders.  Don't they know that the truth almost always comes out.  You're so right in saying that "lenders can work around the bad things and still get you a loan".

Come on people...keep it simple.  Tell the truth!

2:55am • #10
11 Featured Posts
Nancy--- The truth shall set you free!!  :)  We always find out anyway so its best to be straight at the beginning and let us deal with the challenges early.
3:41am • #11
8 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Clients of Realtors and lenders really need to be honest, or we can't do our best with them.  Honesty is a two way street.
3:42am • #12
What's so scary is these loans were still happening not so long ago, with loan officers having their clients lie. Personally, I'm glad things are changing. It seemed like no one cared when the housing market was doing great.
6:07am • #13
822,365 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Good post Aaron.

It never ceases to amaze me how little the consumers knows about their credit and how their actions affect their credit picture when it comes to mortgage financing.

They must believe that we look at their credit through the borrower's eyes.  Of course, they believe that we're all stupid.

Sad.

7:21am • #14
144,433 Points 89 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Aaron: Hello from Northern California, Aaron. Up early and loving that the AR gods have chosen to feature you and Brian. What a great " week in the life of a Las Vegas LO" post. While I love philosophy (like Brian wrote about today) I love stories from the trenches like yours. We can all relate to what you are going though.

With your writing skills, why not write the letter yourself by interviewing the client, then make them sign it? You may find they are less apt to lie, OR be tipped off just by listening to what they have to say. BTW, I do think this is a great idea, not for every client, but certainly for ones where you have that feeling everything isn't as presented. You know that feeling......

The way I avoid lies is this: I tell them I am their advocate, that I DO NOT make the decision, I simply present it in the best way possible to get the approval.(like your lawyer going in front of a judge)Therefore, tell me everything, and tell me the truth, and I will put it together in a way that will cause the bank to buy the loan. And since we may only get one chance with the right lender....we don't want to blow it by not being able to back up EVERYTHING on the application......

8:15am • #15
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Everyone comes streaming out of the woodwork in this type of market, dont they?

8:18am • #16
6 Featured Posts
Aaron, what a week you've had--and it's only Tuesday!! Hang in there...hopefully, your clients will start being more forthcoming...
8:39am • #17
135,921 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

These people go lender shopping and get denied. Then they turn to the internet and find out how to get around the denials.

We have to be vigilant.

9:16am • #18
well said, in the end they are only hurting themselves. There are still products that enable us to work through these challenges without the borrower having to fabricate events. In the end, it is costing everyone.
Doug Bailey (Chase Loan Officer)
12:55pm • #19
well said, in the end they are only hurting themselves. There are still products that enable us to work through these challenges without the borrower having to fabricate events. In the end, it is costing everyone.
Doug Bailey (Chase Loan Officer)
12:55pm • #20

wow...those are some interesting stories. I've had a client blatantly lie to me and because of all the changes that kept happening the lender eventually turned it down. Like you said, if they had been upfront with me then I could have gotten around all of that regardless. I can't believe they actually forged pay stubs like that! amazing!

People these days...

2:31pm • #21
3 Featured Posts
Really eye-opening post.  This is why I refuse to work with anyone that is not pre-qualified (not that it would have stopped the woman with the disabled mother).  People are really unbelievable sometimes.
2:55pm • #22
4 Featured Posts

Aaron,

These people are pathetic.. Good Post!!!

Tom Weiss

7:35pm • #23
11 Featured Posts

Kaushik----Without question!!

Christina-- Its one of the biggest reasons for today's mess.

Lenn--- THX!  Very few understand.  I am convinced that "Personal Finance" should be a required course in high school.   How can knowing biology be more important to you after graduation than understanding how important your credit is and balancing a check book?  Our economy would sour even higher if everyone understood the very basic of the world of personal finance.

Janet--- THX!  You are too kind. Believe me, I have written my share of letters.  :)  I send a very detailed email and letter about the loan process to every borrower the day we meet.  It details very clearly that I am on their team  My job is to get them the loan and be their advocate.   And it streses being honest so I can help.   These two obviously didnt read it.  :)

Debbie--- Crazy huh?  I think they were out there before too.

7:51pm • #24
11 Featured Posts

Darlene--- Thank God this was last week!  AR just featured it a week after I wrote it.  This week has been much better I am happy to report.  :)

Tom--- Agreed!!!

Doug-- Exactly.  Let us work the problems.  Thats what we are here for.

Rick--- That was the most shocking part.  I have never seen that before or many I just never caught it before.

Amy--- Thats the best way.  In this case, the borrower is approved with a subprime loan at 10.00% that she is willing to pay and qualifies for.  The FHA approval would have meant a 6.500% rate.

7:55pm • #25
337,683 Points Outside Blog
Good post. Don't you just hate it when people do not tell the truth. Hang in there.
9:17pm • #26
SEP
12
2007
204,833 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Aaron, This would be a great post for the Inspiration 'honesty' contest...just add 'honesty' or 'honest' to the tags and repost it adding it to the Inspiration group and you will be entered....

good advice and timely info

Jo 

12:30pm • #27
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor
Great post - its amazing how many people are unaware of what is on their credit reports.  And we always do find out where the skeletons are.
8:29pm • #28
SEP
14
2007
445,445 Points Outside Blog
I have heard that they have done away with stated income as it were....I had a client, school teacher, who bought a $780K home, and I tried to talk her out of it...she went stated income...and 6 months later she is in foreclosure...the loan officer knew she could not afford it...but he pressed on...at what point, would you have declined to do a loan for someone who, you knew, was headed for a train wreck...?
7:09am • #29
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15
2007
11 Featured Posts

Ben and Carolin--- I do.  Especially in business.

Jo-Anne-- Will do.  THX for the tip!!

David--- We always do find out.  I warn them of that too.

Konnie--- Its a very difficult question and probably a good idea for a blog.  I think its a very tough call for a loan officer.  We are not underwriters.  So if a borrower comes to us and wants a loan and says all of the right things and we confirm them, is it our place to say no?   I think today it may just be.

12:46am • #30
SEP
17
2007
I worked in the Manufactured Home Industry and saw some CRAZY things! I had 3 different buyers who were not citizens, but claimed to be. They insisted that SSI numbers belonged to them, when they didn't. They let us spend so much time arguing on their behalf, when they were not truthful.
11:15pm • #31
SEP
18
2007
144,433 Points 89 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Aaron: Where the heck have you been? Your fan (me) has been waiting for one of your brilliant posts. You have now had enough time off, come back.
11:09am • #32
11 Featured Posts

Hi, Janet---  You are t oo kind!!  I have written three blogs in the last week though.    Check them out.   I have taken a few days off though.   I was offered a great position at a huge mortgage bank so I am trying to get my feet on the ground.    Big personal announcement coming in the next few days but I will give you a teaser.   The company starts with a ""C" and ends with a "Wide."  :)

3:58pm • #33
11 Featured Posts
Nathan--- I have done my share of man homes here in Nevada and California.   I don't know about your area but here in Nevada its a whole different ball game with unique borrowers.
4:00pm • #34

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Aaron Gordon, Home Loan Consultant, Las Vegas, NV

Las Vegas, NV

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