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Is my brick house real brick?

A good alternative title might be what is brick veneer ?

Back in the good old days when homes were built with brick it served as the structure for the home.

In today's home brick is still used, but not for   Structure so much as for appearance.  In other words, you can think of it more as a siding. The actual structure of a home built with brick veneer is normally that of a wood frame. So basically what this means is that the brick does not support the house, but the House supports the brick.

Another good question might be why do they do it this way and not just build the whole house with brick? Like with most things nowadays cheaper and faster.

There is one benefit to all of this however, and it is the third reason for building this way, which is the fact that they are easily insulated and thus more energy efficient than a simple brick structure.  Yet another good question may be how long will it last? The answer is that depends on how well it is constructed.  See the diagram below for an example of how a brick veneer wall is constructed.  Keep in mind when constructing brick veneer,  Only one layer of brick is used

Brick Veneer

As you can see above the one layer brick wall is tied to the structure and supported with its weight right on top of the foundation which has been planned ahead of time.  The architect has to plan for the approximately 4 inch width of the brick plus a one-inch space behind which will allow the wall to  drain moisture that gets behind the brick. As you can also see from the diagram above, the wall behind the brick has a moisture barrier, allowing the water to drain onto the bottom and away from the structure.

The water drains to a series of weep holes that are placed along the bottom row of brick, and also above windows and doors which also have a series of weep holes while sitting on steel lentils, which help prevent deflection and thus cracking of the mortar.one problem that is common is for bricklayers is to drop mortar into the one-inch cavity.  Thus blocking easy exit of moisture through the weep holes.  The dropped mortar retains the water longer, thus possibly allowing the possibility of mold to enter the home via mold spores, which can rise up and into.

  Most homes will have weep holes, approximately every 24 to 36 inches max. Another important part of the brick veneer is having the brick ties appropriately spaced. The brick ties are important and seek not only to keep the wall from moving yet allow slight movement. The reason for allowing slight movement is due to the fact that the wood frame expands and contracts at a different rate.

  Break ties are embedded in the mortar between bricks and nailed into the wood studs.  Normally they are placed approximately every six or seven courses of brick on a vertical plane.  Horizontal, they should be embedded into every stud.

Hopefully this information will help you understand little bit about brick veneer walls and is not meant to be technical so much as informational.

(diagram done with serif draw plus four and photo scape by Bob Elliott)

 
This post has been included in Illinois Real Estate News Cook County, IL Real Estate News
Post is included in group: Fixers, Flips, and Rehabs

85 Comments on Is brick veneer the real deal?

SEP
13
2007
158,238 Points 1 Featured Post Hit Router Attended Rain Camp
Interesting post!  In AZ you don't see much brick, actually you don't see much except stucco.  I love the look of brick.
11:16pm • #1
Great post!  Keep up the great blogging and best of luck to you!
11:16pm • #2
220,676 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Thanks for the instruction.  Can use all I can get.
11:18pm • #3

Thank you.

I am hoping to get away from report software ,and I am trying to create easy to understand illustration.

Let me know if it needs improvement.

11:28pm • #4
this is really great info. So many times you see a house and you KNOW it is veneer but the listing says " all brick" I love the construction info with visuals, keep it up!!!
11:37pm • #5
SEP
17
2007
1,001,524 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Howdy Bob

Thank you for taking the time to show us some fine info.

Have a good one

5:44pm • #6
Thanks Dale.Have a good one yourself.
9:46pm • #7
SEP
22
2007

Howdy Bob,

How have you been? Good I hope.

Great, great post!!!

On an all-masonry constructed home with brick veneer, the technique is the same except the brick ties are set into cement block units, as the block walls are being constructed. When the mason comes back to install the bricks, they are waiting for him. The interior walls are then framed out separately.

Again, on a larger reinforced concrete building, the same technique is used again. This time, evenly spaced, vertical "brick slots" are installed in the form before the concrete is poured. After the forms are stripped, the brick slots give the mason a specially engineered... "slot" to slip a special brick tie designed for the purpose into.

Did you make the illustration? Can I "borrow" it?

-Steve

9:04am • #8

That is a great illustration, Bob!! Clearly explains something that can be somewhat of a mystery to people. many times I have used a pencil the difference between solid masonry and brick veneer. Your digram is WAY better than my driving.

12:15pm • #9
SEP
23
2007

Thanks guys.

Been a little busy in survival mode from a dead August.

This was my first time attempting an illustration but you are more than welcome to use it,or alter to your hearts content.

When I get a chance I will improve it due to the imperfection.

This should be another blog subject , however I have discovered many good free soft ware over the last month which will soon enable me to break free of report writting programs..

Try Netscape for easy and quick illustraton.Then perhaps we can all create and share on this or my other AR forum.Just got up so for givr any typos.

9:50am • #10

Hey Bob,

I wish I could put together my own report writing system. The one I use is very good, but I find myself using it... shall I say, other than how it is designed and do not have the control to organize my reports as I see fit.

My style of report writing is pretty much narrative with photos. I'm almost ready to use Word and import the pictures, I'm not sure how I wold post it to the internet.

Another reason I use the program is that it gives me a structure to follow.

Soooo, let me know when you are ready to start, I'd like to get involved.

Steve.

PS. YOU JUST GOT UP!!!! Was the wolf out with the foxes again?

10:43am • #11

Went out after the comment to what is the last outside art fair in Chicago.

Met a nice Agent and posted flyers which I have begun doing in an effort to get past what has been a lean past month.

Steve I feel the same about software as you do as I provide plenty of photos and narrative.

The structure is helped through a program as it also hinders my control of the layout.

I will be happy to discuss this further if there is interest.I feel open office is better than word for control and speed in reporting.I also am beginning to combine this with what is known as a clipboard program to get the look I want and increase speed of the report.

I may be going to this kind of system soon.That said I am still a fan of Horizon.The soft ware based on word has no reason to exist in my opinion.You can do better on your own with templates.

10:53pm • #12
SEP
24
2007

Bob,

I also use Horizon, but as I stated I use it my own way. Sometimes I use the Description/Limitations/Recommendations, but usually find myself using the Description "layer" only and present my findings in a narrative form along with pictures.

The problem that I have with the program, and I have spoken to John K. about, is:

1. I have no control regarding the layout/order in which things are presented on the report. So if I write a report and then add to of delete from it... which is very common, since I don't spew out finished copy right out of the box. I can't present things in the order of priority or relevance that I desire. I need to be able to "cut and paste". Not just words in a paragraph, I'm referring to whole entries within a category.

2. My other complaint is that I want control where my pages shall break. For instance; I may report and use 3/4 or more of a page on a particular item. At the end of the written paragraph, I may include some photos... or may not. I then my go on to discuss a different subject or item. The problem is that with Horizon, my opening statement... or even just one line of it shows up and appears to be part of the previous subject. I would like to have the control to move it down and create a space or start a new page if I find myself at the very bottom of a page.

3. I would like more control on the Bottom line, meaning if you don't use Recommendations, you can't add an item to the Bottom Line, as I previously stated, on my more important findings, I usually write a narrative using Description only.

I have spoken to John K. about these issues, I have been told that because it is an adobe program, it is impossible.

Other than those few issues, I really like Horizon.

 Steve

2:03am • #13

They have made some changes,and added more illustration, but the total control of layout will never be there with any program.

How do you feel about the price change?

They do have one thing going for them however,which is the look of the final product.A horizon report is very attractive to the point where if it was a woman I might propose.

7:16pm • #14

The price change ends up costing me money, so obviously I'm not happy about it. Even so, I have no plans on changing for the time being, hopefully, one day it won't make a difference to me.

Yes, the finished product is nice, but I don't see any reason why I can't make my own, just as nice... maybe different, but just as nice. It will have to wait until I have the time and patience to mess with it.

Alot of inspectors I know are using Inspect Express, and they swear by it, although some of them may be saying that for business reasons. If ever I feel like investing in a full program, that will probably be my choice.

 

8:02pm • #15

We are way of subject.  Oh well.

Now tell me why you need software.

now go here   clipboard.

9:23pm • #16
SEP
26
2007

Hi Bob,

That Spartan clipboard looks very interesting... it think. In a nutshell, what does it do?

The reason that I would like my own software is so I can compose my reports the way I want. Shall I say ... my very own flavor. I would like to be able to save the layout and possibly reuse it for the next report. OK, I may want a few different templates, for different types of reports. But I want to be able to save my descriptions and reuse them... with a change or two.

6:42pm • #17
SEP
28
2007

Just down load and play.

Click copy on anything then give it a name, color code, and you have access permanently.

You can pull thousands of these out of your hat at will with the index system.This seems to lend itself to the type of filing a inspector needs .

There is even a photo editor built in on right click.

19 bucks this week only and I just bought it a few hours ago after a week of testing with no problems other than my imagination.

Thumbnail views with your mouse going over is a great touch.Nothing negative at all.

This is great software for a low price.

12:01am • #18
OCT
03
2007
Hey, Bob...much like the builder on a home I inspected recently, you left off the Tyvek.  Hey, you asked!
12:01am • #19
OCT
04
2007

Who is Tyvek Jimmy? Is that the new Russian Inspector ?

Just kidding.Now let me type this real slow so you understand.Basic sketch (good)Detailed sketch to busy(bad)  Just meesin with ya,Welcome back

 

1:41pm • #20
OCT
12
2007
1 Featured Post
Good stuff Bob.   I've added your diagram to my packet of pictures and explanations.  Sometimes I wish I could see behind the new brick walls to see how well the brick ties are planted.   It is amazing to watch a good bricklayer at work.  There is no wasted motion.
1:46pm • #21

Thanks Bill I am working hard on developing my own report system along or in combination with Home Inspection Pro.

Dominic over there has givin me a copy to play with.I just need to get the details right and in the future will put them out for anyone interested.

If there are ideas for a needed diagram maybe I could start there.

I work in spurts but will definatly do this.I also will finish Build a house,but all together on the same post.

I still have all the pics and need to caption.

7:35pm • #22

Bob,

I'm working with the HomeGuage software to see if I can customize that like I want it.  There is a whole set of diagrams and captions available that can be tied in, I think.  I'll let you know.

7:48pm • #23
OCT
13
2007
I'd be interested to know what you come up with using HomeGuage.  Informative diagrams with reports is a great tool for getting that good word-of-mouth advertising.  Hey, Bob....how goes it, buddy?  Having finished my sabbatical from the boards, and refocused my full attention to making another strong marketing push, I am having my best month ever, so far (knock on wood).  Makes me feel real good, especially since a certain franchising firm nearby, the ones who tried to sell the NACHI guys that $658 a month lease on their patented infrared cam a few months back, the ones who actually advertise that they can see through walls, floors and ceilings, those mightier than thou guys who thought they were going to run the rest of us yokels out of business, are currently experiencing a 60% drop in business. I'm about wore slap out from taking up their slack.  So I am taking most of the weekend to go see them thar Mis'sip'i State Bulldogs whup up on them Tennessee Volunteers. I'm itching to tell about a little niche enterprise that I and another nearby NACHI bro are cooking up, but it's a little early yet.  Once we get it established, all the NACHI world will know, and hopefully benefit.
12:25am • #24

Hey Jim, I've been taking these software packages one at a time and have not been happy with any of them.  I'm looking for one which I can make look a certain way and so far the ability to customize has been lacking.  Steve Ramos sent out a letter a while back comparing the different softwares and he said that HomeGuage was the most adaptable.  

By the way, did Nick Gromiko ever explain to NACHI members why he did the deal with Advantage?  I've been a bit out of the loop on this.

6:40am • #25
1 Featured Post
Ups, I forgot to log in before I posted that last comment.  That NACHI thing has got me wondering about whether I should retain my NACHI membership.  What is going on.
6:42am • #26
OCT
14
2007

Hi Bill.. let me address you first, as I have been discussing in a few the other posts, I also am not happy with most of the software out there.

 

Over on the NACHI forum.  I met up with Dominic Marcic and ended up chatting with him on the phone regarding his software for Home Inspector Pro and where I thought it fell short.  He sent me a license for the software this saturday, and I have  recently started playing with it, only to find it is better than I first thought.

He seems like a great guy and is working hard to change it to where we want it.

 

I will you guys know what I think later on.  I am looking at combining the report writing software with a few other programs in order to customize it in the way you mentioned  Bill.

This is why I am going to try and develop some illustrations along the line.

I can combine The Sparten Multi-Cipboard for quick pasting of stored info with the program (I hope)

This has been mentioned on some of my recent posts.

Look and presentation is very important to me on reports, and I am putting a lot of effort into this now and in the future.

Jimmy, yes October has been much better.  I look at this as more seasonal than any of the other factors.

As you may remember August was very dead for me and I have gone back to working for Comcast part-time.

This does not concern me too much as I have been building up my business.  As web based, which means my referrals take longer to come back to me as I am not marketing Realtors.

I just hate the idea of being beholdin and wish to Inspect without guilt.I know how hard I work and it will pay off in the long run even with everyone telling me I am crazy to work this hard at something with no sure reward.

What others do not understand is that this is what I enjoy which is a reward in itself.

Everytime I do a job my adrenalyne flows smiles to my face.I am sure you guys feel the same way.

I am glad to hear things have picked up though as the good guys gotta win once in a while.

 

8:07pm • #27

Hey Guys,

Bob, You know my issues with Horizon. No control over page breaks and no control with the order in which items are listed in each category.

I hate having to purchase each program to find out what I don't like about it. Like you, the appearance of the report matters quite a bit. I wish you would design a program that addresses those issues. If it weren't for that, Horizon would be perfect... as far as I am concerned... for now anyway.

I too do not solicit RE agents for work, although if I meet one in the course of the day, I do hand them my card. I met a woman yesterday, she and her friend started a real estate company. The really specialize in flipping property. She wants me to do some work to a piece she just bought. By the way, the name of her company is Desperate Housewives Real Estate, how's that for a name?

8:42pm • #28

Well part of my idea is to combine the programs on either Open Office,or Think Free slide presentation programs which have PDF file conversion built in.

The key is to speed up the whole process.

I have found that much time is lost with photo presentation and feel this will go much faster (I hope)

Dominic tells me he teaches classes on presentation and will be happy to assist me in my effort.

Steve if you do not have either Open office or Think free which is the simular but also on-line word processor I recommend you down load one or both.(they are free) unlike Microsoft.

Open Offices version is called impress and Think free's is called show.(they are the same)

Think free allows you to store this stuff on -line so you do not need to burden your hard drive as it is all stored for you.

Now if your computer crashes you can still work.

Wow ..we sure go off topic a lot (oh well)

9:21pm • #29
OCT
15
2007
1 Featured Post

Bob,

It seems like a whole lot of extra work.  Are you trying to develop new diagrams from the Carson Dunlap set that is out there on CD?   

6:07am • #30

Bill ...I suppose I could buy the CD , But I would like to do my own for enjoyment and a good way study.

Do you have the CD? There may be a few more out there,but do they cover everything?

I guess it will be for self satisfaction more than anything.I am planning on doing them at my leisure when the mood strikes me.I like to think of it as art.

9:24pm • #31
OCT
16
2007

As far as I know, Nick never explained anything about the Advantage deal.  Maybe he was just providing them with the proverbial rope with which to hang themselves.  I watched the little promotional video they put out.  It was laughable.  I think I can safely say that this gig ain't going nowhere fast.  They talk a big line, but in reality there isn't much to it.  I've always been curious about whose money is behind this concept.  I think I can smell some broker cash, but hey, that's just my suspicion.  Now, if they would like to purchase Sherlock Home Inspections, and then forego any franchise fees, pay me a hefty salary to continue to run it (under their banner, of course), throw in some attractive bonus opportunities (in writing, of course), pay my E&O and other expenses, I might be willing to talk to them.  If what they have to offer is so good, they should be willing to do all that and more.  But, give up my company name and take a chance on undermining my reputation for thoroughness that I have taken such pains and suffered so much realtor ostracism for, all for the privilege of paying them a flat up-front fee plus continued fees thereafter?????? Please.

They talk about having this "presence" all over the Southeast.  But, when you actually check, there isn't much going on there.  If memory serves me correctly, they have 4 (count 'em) franchises in Fla., 2 in N. Carolina, supposedly 2 in 'Bama, which, I think, turns out to be the same guy, a couple over in East Tennessee, and so on.  So they're not exactly hitting on all cylinders.

Speaking of the video, I got a kick out of the guy standing (not sweating, either!) in the attic with his protometer stuck in a piece of decking.  I wonder what "clue" led him to that, because in the video, that looked like the cleanest, dryest attic anywhere.  And then there's their "inspector hotline" or whatever they call it, where a confused inspector can call in, describe his problem, and have an "expert" on the other end guide him to the appropriate analysis, comment and advisory. Please.  I can imagine the conversation going something like this:

"Ringa...ringa..rinnnnnnnng."

"Inspector Hotline, this is Joe....how may I help you while I'm here today?"

"Uh...yessur, uh, this here's Bubba, over in Mis'sip'i...uh...how y'all doin'?"

"We're fine, Bubba...you got a question?"

"Uh, yessur, I sho' do.  Unh, looka heah, I'm up here in a loft, uh, I mean attic, and there's these here rafter boards what don't measure no standard measurement.  They's a full 2" by 6", and they's got saw blade markins' on 'em, an' thar ain't no ridge board on this thang.  An it smells rich as pine tar up heah!  I b'lieve sum sumbitch has done sat-u-rated this thang with sum flame-uppable sump'n or nuther."

"Well, Bubba, how old is the home?"

"Uh, I b'lieve they sed it'uz built in 1887.  Lemme see, that's...mmmm....carry th' 2, mmm....'n take away...uh....."

"Never mind, Bubba...so it's a late 19th century home?"

"Naw!  It'uz built in thuh 1800s."

"That makes it a 19th century home, Bubba."

(momentary silence)  "Uh, that thar don't make no sense t'me."

"OK, suffice it to say it's an older home.  Older homes were often built with rough-cut lumber.  That's why the rafters measure a full 2X6.  Originally, rafters would have been spanned with 1X4 members to act as a nailing base for wood shingles.  Many times, ridge boards were not used.  The rich odor you smell is probably because the lumber was cut from heart pine, which has retained a high content of natural resin."

"Well, I'll be a ring-tailed monkey!! Sho' nuff?"

"Yep, really.  What you're seeing is really quite normal, Bubba."

"Oh, ok, then.....dang! Dropped my dang cigerette right down in that little crack there...lessee...hmmm...DANG! Left my needle nose in my pouch down on thuh ground...HEY!!! Holy brother 'o MOSES!!! This thang's afar!  Hey, Joe...uh...I'll call yuh back.  (uh, Ma'am, uh, you wouldn't happen to have a far extinguisher I can borry fer a minute, would yuh?)"

12:23am • #32

Hey are you guys telling me you do not have Nick figured yet.

He is a promoter,which is why the association is big as it is.

A smart business man promotes Coke one week and Pepsi the next.

6:13pm • #33

Regarding software I just got off a G-Mail chat with Dominic at Home Inspector pro and over the last hour  he made changes to the control of pics to the point where I may not need another program.

He is asking us what we want and putting it in.

He has been working hard to get the software customizable and is improving it at an accelerated rate.

He is going to be adding Page border control next.I am impressed.

7:15pm • #34

Bob, I can't even figure myself out....how in heck could I delve into the mind of the Nickster?  Actually, Nick's really good at this sort of thing.  Sometimes, promotion means letting the sparks fly.  Debate doesn't cost anything.  But I'm kind of p-ss-d off at him for stealing my "pay-per-view" onspection idea before I had a chance to try it out.  Oh, well.  I knew somebody would come up with it sooner or later.

Back on the subject of brick veneer, there are so many good reporting software products out there, I wish I could combine the best from all of them into one.  But for the foreseeable future, I'll stick with my beloved HomeGuage.  Inserting graphics is as easy as having a bank of graphics saved in JPEG format, and bringing them up with every inspection.  Just choose a folder and insert.  Anybody do this with their HomeGuage?

8:49pm • #35
OCT
17
2007
1 Featured Post

Bob, I would keep my distance from a company that is writing code on the fly to create a product for you. 

I worked for a software company for many years and I remember being in that mode where clients would call the president of the company (you cringed when they did that) and he would make commitments to change the software.  Then the next client called and it was something else.  Over the weeks and months the company was really slammed when it came to keeping up.  The programmers did a good job of changing the software, but we had a hell of a time with our support trying to maintain 46 different versions of the code. 

You seem to have patience and that will serve you well.  Personally, since this is so important to my inspection I would rather go with a product that has been out there a while and won't be changing much. 

I am liking the HomeGuage demo package I downloaded.  Haven't figured out how to change the printed report yet, but they have a Webinar coming up. 

6:51am • #36
1 Featured Post

Bob, I would keep my distance from a company that is writing code on the fly to create a product for you. 

I worked for a software company for many years and I remember being in that mode where clients would call the president of the company (you cringed when they did that) and he would make commitments to change the software.  Then the next client called and it was something else.  Over the weeks and months the company was really slammed when it came to keeping up.  The programmers did a good job of changing the software, but we had a hell of a time with our support trying to maintain 46 different versions of the code. 

You seem to have patience and that will serve you well.  Personally, since this is so important to my inspection I would rather go with a product that has been out there a while and won't be changing much. 

I am liking the HomeGuage demo package I downloaded.  Haven't figured out how to change the printed report yet, but they have a Webinar coming up. 

6:51am • #37

Bill....do you plan to use HomeGuage's upload service?  I don't know how you would change a printed report once you upload one, since I don't use the service, but I can tell you how I do it.  In the first place, the essential elements of my reports are not going to be changed.  One thing I will never do is back off defects, or downplay them at the request of sellers or agents.  However, I will create an addendum upon a re-inspection that reflects efforts made to correct defects. 

I use an inexpensive piece of software called "Easy PDF Printer" to convert finished reports to a compressed PDF file, which I then (most normally) e-mail to the client.  You probably know how those work, but basically it fools the computer into thinking the PDF conversion is a print job.  Of course, there is the saved report which you can reopen any time in the HomeGuage software.  These, you can edit any way you choose.

IF you wish to change the body of a report, it is a simple matter.  Simply access the report and edit the line-item text.

On projects where a re-inspection has occurred (generally, these are pre-listing inspections), and defects have been addressed, I do this:  In the systems and components menu, exclude all categories that will not be addressed in the addendum report.  That leaves you with a "bare bones" template.  In each category that is left, simply exclude individual line items, addressing only those items necessary to the addendum. Save and print.  Before and after pics are nice.  When naming the report, just change one number or letter.  For instance, if the original report was named "Smith1079", name the addendum "Smith1079A" or whatever.  In HomeGuage and as a PDF file, you still have the original report on file.

 

9:42am • #38
1 Featured Post

Jimmy,

Thanks for this. I appreciate your help.  I don't think the upload service is for me, however, there might be something said for preparing the report on site, reviewing the report on my tablet PC and then giving the client and agent a web address for the report.  That may work, I'll have to see. 

What I am not used to is all the qualifying language in the software.  All the CYA statements about if I can't see it I can't be responsible for it...etc, etc.  I realize that everyone is scared to death of being sued, but I'm not finding people having,  to see that language with almost every line in the report.  I'm getting over my initial problem with this. 

9:59am • #39

Hi Bill..This is not customized software .

Dominic is coming out with a new version of Home Inspector pro and has been speaking with all the Inspectors as to what they want included.

The picture control that he just included is not yet released till next week ,but I had the privledge of enjoying the Beta copy as we spoke.The feature will be available to all.

I have tried Home Gauge and most others,so have much to go on.Home gauge was up at the top of my list till now.

I have never seen such fast picture control and placement as I am now enjoying.This Bill has been a sore subject for me and a reason I do not like what is out there till now.

Go back to before you came in and read some of my past comments and you will see I have spent a lot of time on this subject area.

I finally feel for the first time that my report time will be cut down with out any loss in quality.

I was just giving a heads up to anyone still looking as I was.

I do not expect anyone already invested in software to change a thing that they are comfortable with.

It is not perfect as I would still like control of border colors for easy scroll through to systems,but he is working on it.

 

10:44am • #40
OCT
18
2007

Bill....the only time I ever looked at the CYA comments is when I first started using the software.  Those are for the uncomfortable and unknowledgeable.  As a matter of fact, I'd even forgotten that they are there.  And I don't hold to the statement, "If I can't see it, it probably isn't there."  Now, in such cases where you KNOW something to be true, whether you can see it or not, I have no problem with going beyond the SOP.  Remember that SOPs are only minimum standards.  If you worry too much about being sued, you probably will be.  As I have gone along, I use the standardized comments less and less.  I have added a number of my own auto-comments, but in a report that is unique to a home, standard comments, for the most part, just don't cut it.  If you're going to depend on standard comments, you may as well do as Russell does, and print the report in the driveway.  Faster? Yes, and easy to accomplish.  But you will never be known for quality, you WILL miss things being preoccupied with finding just the right auto-comment, and your reports won't be an interesting read.  I'm convinced that is important, especially down the road when you want you prices in the upper echelon. 

Hey Bob!

10:17am • #41
1 Featured Post

Jimmy,

How refreshing it is to hear you say that.  I hate the equivocating mishmash.  Do you input the unique comments on a PC, a tablet, hand held?  I am looking into software that will take my printing and convert into typed words.  I don't know how that will turn out, but it seem like what I will need.  

10:34am • #42

Bob,

Hey buddy, I thought you were using Horizon... no? I really don't like the fact that I can't control page breaks. When I read my reports, it appears very confusing, and I'm the guy that wrote it.

I also don't like the fact that I cannot arrange the order that items are listed within a category. I would want things to show up in the order of their relevancy, not the order in which I enter them. Especially because when I'm writing a report, of course I enter the big ... most important items first. At the end of the report, I scan over my notes to see if I missed anything. It's not uncommon to come across a trivial item or two that I may want to include.  The way it work, as you know, is to display last entries first.

I hate to buy a program and find out I don't like it.

Did you save me a piece of cake?

6:36pm • #43

Bill...

At that point in time when I feel I have enough auto comments of my own, I may consider the PDA/Driveway route.  At present, I let my pics be my field notes for the most part.  On the worst inspections, I MAY have 3/4 of a page in very abbreviated field notes.  I write the report back at the office usually. I do often take the laptop, and work on a report between inspections.  For the most part, I do it the old fashioned way....pics and notes, report writing in the evening.  The last thing I want to do is to be distracted at the inspection by any concerns other than producing the best product for the client.  If that takes me extra time, so be it.  I do know for a fact that this approach has strengthened my reputation. The current dry spell affected me from the middle of August toward the end of September.  The bottom essentially dropped out of the bucket.  I took a hiatus from the boards and AR, and hedged my bets with some other types of inspection work.  Now, suddenly, I find myself turning down some draw inspections, insurance inspections, etc, to get to the home inspections.  Most of the other guys in my area are still experiencing a big drop.  It's too early to tell, but I think a lot of realtors, seeing clients now in short supply, are dotting their "I's" and crossing their "T's", and making sure that they serve the clients they do have well.  This includes procuring the services of the best inspectors.  I do know that I am now receiving calls from agents who I know would avoided me like the plague in the past.  A NACHI buddy, located 30 miles to the north of me, who takes pretty much the same approach, is experiencing the same trend. We figure we must be doing something right, while we watch other guys fold their tents.  Home inspection in Mississippi, and other licensed states, isn't something you can just cut expenses on and hold on during tough times.  There are considerable fixed costs, and if you don't get the gross, you ain't gonna survive.

It's not that I haven't tried the hand-held route.  I have one with HomeGuage on it.  I found it too limiting and painstaking on the job.  I could use the laptop, and tried that too.  When it's 99 degrees outside with a relative humidity also in the 90s, making the heat factor above 110, laptops can become a bulky impedance, IMO.

BTW....I have a very good portable printer for sale, if anyone is interested!

10:53pm • #44
OCT
19
2007

Hey Jimmy hang in there

Steve I have been working on my own program but have no more need .

Trust me on this one.I will send you a sample report from HIP as soon as I get it going.

I have a Inspection tommorow and will be busy saturday but I swear this new software is exactly what I have been looking for.Yes I have one Horizon credit left.

No comparison though as speed will increase now.

I am switching to it next week.

I can change everytrhing including color of the individual frames and control page breaks load pics placed exact where I need them with fast speed .This is really the best.

Sorry if it sounds like an ad but I just downloaded the new patch here after my NACHI meeting and feel like a kid in a candy store.

2:02am • #45

ok bob,

i am patiently waiting. but wadda i do with my horizon credits? maybe i can donate them and get a tax write off. of auction them on ebay.

actually. i hope you are right. it has come to the point that i ...almost hate report writing. that is not good. then again i think i'm just getting burnt from working too much during the regular workday. manhattan is beginning to bore me, especially the two hour traffic jam in each direction every day.

i'm glad i have a driver.

 

3:34am • #46
1 Featured Post

Jimmy,

OK, you have helped me see how this can be done, without printing in the driveway.  If anything, realtors may begin scheduling me earlier in the contingency period knowing that they don't get the report on site. What are you giving them on site?  I ordered one of the NACHI books and I think it might serve as a part of a presentation folder.  I also like the idea of a presentation binder ready with everything and with a place up front for the report which they can download.  Any ideas? 

6:11am • #47

Call me old fashioned, but I just simply don't use much fluff.  In the first place, realtors aren't the people I'm trying to impress, although the realtors I hear from often are satisfied with a 24 hour turnaround.  I'm always thinking client referrals down the road, and my marketing efforts are directed toward the free-thinking client who is wise enough to go out and choose their own inspector based on quality, not price.  I simply do not fool with price shoppers.  I tell them straight out that if what they are looking for is a cheap inspection, they will be able to find it, and that is exactly what they will get.  The metaphor isn't lost on saavy consumers, and unsaavy consumers are going to go ahead and seek out the inspector who will do an inspection for $149 with a $49 discount anyway.  Why waste time trying to change someone's preconceived notions?  They will learn from harsh experience, and when their needs change and they look for that next house, they will seek out the best, price be damned.  I don't offer incentives, discounts, coupons, or anything else of that nature.  I am what I am and my reports speak for themselves.  I am fully aware that this may cost me in the short term.  I do offer unlimited consultation after the sale on any home maintenance issue the client wishes to discuss, free of charge.  I will even go out and look.  I always try to think of things from the perspective of a client.  I am not in the business of streamlining the closing process for realtors.  That is not my job, and I don't find anything addressing that in any SOP or COE.  But I do find lots of things directed at giving good service to the person who writes the check.

Having said all that, lots of the NACHI material is good stuff.  I have just chosen to put my time and efforts into grooming clients for the long term.

10:24am • #48

I agree with you guys on the 24 hour turn around.

If there is pressure in regard to time I figure a quick summery of defects can be done with a revision report later on.

With so many people with different needs one should try to be flexable.

There was a survey done on the NACHI board and if I remember correctly around 25 percent do on site with most of us finishing at home.

As for me I would need to raise price if I had to print on site (what with the cost of ink now in days).

11:29am • #49

The only guys I know that do the report on site use "triplicate copy" hand written checklists. I'm not saying that there aren't those that print a report, but that is what I know of.

Even if you are fast writing a report, how fast can you be. Why would you want to sit in your car/truck all that time? Why would the client want to wait on site all that time?

Beside the comfort of home, what about the access to reference material?

Anyway, it takes me so long to write a report, I'd have to sleep in my truck.

5:56pm • #50
1 Featured Post

Steven,  I think with the proper software I should be able to put together a report with all the bells and whistles in an hour.  I'm now thinking that I'll pick up about 45 minutes on site because I will not be fiddling with the manual report.  I'll just schedule my inspections at 9am and Noon rather than 9 and 1 and I'll use the extra time at home.   Should be a wash when I get used to doing it that way.   Printing in the drive way doesn't appeal to me, nor does sleeping in the drive way. lol

6:27pm • #51

Bill,

If you can do a report that quickly, I am impressed. I don't doubt you but I would love to see a sample of a report that you do in an hour.

How long have you been inspecting homes? Do you have an extensive library of "boiler plates?"

In the beginning, I had planned on setting up a mobile office in my truck. With a computer, printer, some reference books etc.

But even an hour, I can't see the client wanting to stand around all that time. Also, I really like sending them on-line.

6:34pm • #52
1 Featured Post
Steven, I think that you are right about it taking longer at first.  That's what worrys me.  I haven't switched over yet, and am trying to figure out how this will work for me.  I've been inspecting for 3 years.  Will be building my boiler plates from scratch. I really like the idea of not keeping the client waiting while I put the report together.   I also like the idea of inputing as much as I can as I go, say on a tablet PC or a hand held.  Just not sure how this will work for me yet. 
7:24pm • #53

Hey guys ..I just got back from an inspection and am getting ready to jump on Horizon.

It will take me at least 4 hours and I bet a lot of the time is due to photos loading and the fact it is online.

I have one more credit and will be using my spare time to load the new program with boiler plates.

Steve as soon as I get a chance I will send you a PDF sample with the new one.I wish I had the new one going already as I will be losing sleep tonite.

 

8:16pm • #54

I had no idea this was going on but just checked tjhe NACHI site and saw this.

http://www.nachi.tv/episode8

8:42pm • #55
OCT
20
2007

Bob,

After reading your previous message and clicking on your provided link, I also had some interest. I went to the site provided and looked at one of the sample reports.

The check list format looked very easy to fill in and it probably would make compiling a report alot easier and faster. But, to tell you the truth... it didn't jump jump up and convince me that "this is the system for me."

I wish I had some input, I do have some questions and have some suggestions that I would like to see. There are some things that are do-able and would make it what I consider "kick ass."

I am going back to check it out again.

5:26am • #56

Steve the changes were just made and may not be on the site yet.

I had seen the samples before and never thought twice about it.

Hang tight or call the guy and have him send you a copy to play with.He will get back to you right away.

Remember I just got my Beta copy.,and by the way my horizon report is taking forever.Now I know why,as I find I am tayloring my report to the program rather than the other way around.(finaly figured out the problem here.)

 

 

5:34am • #57
1 Featured Post
I am appreciating you guys going through the same process I am and letting me in on it.  At least you have some experience with electronic reporting.  I'm learning every day.  I get the impression that the learning curve on this stuff is straight up. 
6:42am • #58

Good morning again,

I tried out the trial report... I think I need to attend a web session to get the basics. I did experiment and was able to get it going, but think it would be a lot easier to learn the basice from the session.

It looks like it could be ok. I like the way you can edit the pictures, but once again Ineed a websession or two. The check list format looks like it could be pretty quick, I wasn't able to enter any narrative... once again... web session.

I sent Dominick an Email, and I will try to speak to him later. There are a few things I see that it lacks. If he can put them in, he'll have my vote.

9:28am • #59

Bill,

All I know about electronic reporting is that it can be very expensive finding the one that suits you. Looking at a sample report or even downloading a trial copy is great, but unless I use it to do an actual report, it is difficult to discover if I can tolerate it's limitations.

I like Horizon very much, it's very PRETTY, but there are some limitations that I just can't accept. You would think they would fix it. I'm sure it can be done. Yes, I spoke to them about it and made it very clear how important it was to me.

This one looks like it might be fast and easy, but until I know how to operate it, I can't really tell. I did notice a few things that I don't see and would like to.

9:42am • #60

Hi Steven,

  I sent you an email a short while ago. Make sure to check out the Animated Tutorials on the website (button on top of the site). There's 12 right now. 2 of them were changed slightly due to the new version 2.5 released last night. The reordering entire sections and preventing them from printing is now under Report Settings->Section Colors & Print Order. Make sure to get some popcorn first, there's about an hours worth of material if you go through them all. The nice thing is you can go forward/back easy to repeat something.

   To add your own narratives simply click on the Edit Tables button on the top of the box. The ratings on the right will flip a few editing options to add, delete or rearrange narratives. You can also double click on any comment in the program and a pop up box will appear where you can rename the item.

12:12pm • #62
1 Featured Post
Steven and Bob, I just downloaded the Home Inspector Pro Trial.  What I like about it is it appears to be a simpler report than any of the others.   I really like the summary page.  That is what I liked most about the Home Guide manual system.  Bob, I can't see this software taking you more than an hour to finish a report once you have the bulk of your library in place.  I've got alot to do before I can say anything more.  Keep up your discussions and I'll try to catch up.  
12:28pm • #63

Hi Dominick,

I got your reply. Thank you. My first impression is that you do have a winner.

I wish you could figure out how to add the tabs, even if you decreased the amount of available sections. You really don't need an endless amount, especially if you could create your own. Grounds, Roofing, Exterior, Structure, Plumbing, Electrical, Mechanical, Miscellaneous, how many more do you really need?

I would rather be limited to ten or so than to have to constantly scroll back and forth through the entire report searching for something. I'm also thinking of my client.

Hey Dom,

Why don't you try to set up some type of web session that some of us could all attend simultaneously. It would be a great way to introduce your product and educate a number of people at the same time.

12:29pm • #64

Hi Steven,

 That's a good idea. I've done one a long time ago using WebEX, I could certainly set something like that up again.

 The structure of the program allows complete customization for the inspector. I wouldn't hard code the numbers of sections as each inspector tailors to their needs. The sections you listed are just the menus created for organization, you can actually rearrange those to your desire, or even create one huge menu. The sections with the report would be like Attic, Bathroom, Bedrooms, Kitchen, etc.

  Our current thought is to allow the summary/table of contents to be color coded to match the border colors of the sections (that's if you don't use the same color throughout). That way you can click through from there. I guess we could add the tabs as an option that people could choose to use. That way if people had few enough sections where it would work, they could. I'll add it to our list of possible updates. The nice thing about the current setup is that all the important items are right there on that summary with the page numbers.

Bill,

  I'm glad you like the simplicity. It was completely designed by home inspectors who were using tablets to do their inspections on site. That was the reason for the simplicity. We aimed to move all the important features up front and all the additional options that make the program powerful a click or two away (like Edit Tables and Edit Templates and under the Report Settings option). We do have some work to do to with the current comment set which could use improvement. The nice thing is that it's so easy to add your own comments and that's what most inspectors do anyways. We are working on a new set of comments but that's obviously a big task. You can see a sample if you open the Texas TREC template as that one is pretty far along.

Any other questions, please let me know.

12:52pm • #65

Dom,

I may not be using the right terminology, but I would like my client to look through the whole report forst. After that, there may be areas that he/she would like to keep coming back to. Say there were some electrical issue, a plumbing issue and a roofing issue. It would be nice if they could go straightto those area without have to scroll through the entire report. Especially if they want to bounce back and forth.

That would be great on each page.

Now, if within the Table of Contents, lets say Electrical is Section 4 or Chapter 4 or whatever you wish to call it, just click on it and zoom (zoom = fast), you are there. Now if you want to really get fancy... perhaps 4.3 might be GFI's or panels, or whatever... click/zoom would be out of this world.

As the person writing the report, It would sure be alot easier to write if I also had the ability to click/zoom and go right to where I wanted to be, and not have to constantly scroll and search for everything.

I thionk your sample report is about 30 or so pages, thats alot of scrolling.

click/zoom = easier, easier for me, easier for my client.

I wonder if anyone else feels the same way as I do, or am I making a big deal out of nothing?

1:04pm • #66

Hi Steve,

  When you are writing the report you can jump around with one click. I can definitely see the advantage to creating a more interactive pdf. I've honestly only had a few inspectors ever request such a feature, but it can be implemented. It's just a matter of keeping track internally of where all the sections go and linking everything together. I have a few features I have to finish up right now, as well as finish updating the sample reports on the website. I'll look at it later tonight or have my partner look at it.

Dominic
Http://www.HomeInspectorPro.com

1:13pm • #67

Also,

You mentioned weekly updates. Will updates be included?

By the way, I'm sorry if my input sounds too heavy, I really like what you are building and your computer knowledge  is awesome. Its just that this was said to be the best available and had all of the finest features. The things that I speak of would really make it great and not just another program that has this but not that, so we end up having, once again to decide which features we like better and with limitations we have to deal with.

I would like it all.

PS, We spoke of the spell check, you said it had it but it was limited and could be added to. I there any way of douwnloading a dictionary to the program? I may not know I am splelling a word wrong, so how do I know I need to add it?

And  what about uploading my pictures fro the inspection? or do I have to upload one at a  time... which sucks.

1:14pm • #68
I forgot to add. If you want the client to look at the whole report first you can choose to have the report summary printed at the end of the report.
1:14pm • #69

I'm surprised that only a few have requested click, zoom. It is a great feature. I bet anyone that has ever used Horizon requests it.

By the way, I really appreciate that you are willing to get so involved and listen... even if it is not possible to do... the desires of the inspectors that are using the system.

As far as few requests, I told you I was special... a special pain in the ... hahahahah

I know what I want, I want it all. If you build it, they will come. You will leave no doubt as to who's is the best. You will make it and easy choice.

 

What about a web session? Hey guys, if he sets up a web session to show us how his system works, who will attend?

1:20pm • #70

Hi Steve,

 Don't worry, I love comments, good or bad, regarding the program. The only way to improve is to recognize our shortcomings.

  You're not uploading pictures to the internet like you do with Horizon as the program is on your actual computer. You just click on Add Picture and select the picture from your memory stick. It takes about 1 second per picture. Plus you have the ability to edit the photos, add arrows, rectangles, adjust brightness, etc. We are working on a drag & drop features but have to really optimize it before release as it would slow down on older machines.

 We are definitely trying to create the best programs out there, but since we've only been around for a few years, programs like HomeGauge and InspectVue(which are great programs) have had a lot more time to get ahead. I do feel we have a lot of unique features and the simplicity is unmatched. Everyone I've talked to who has purchased the program is happy.

  We release updates approximately every 3 weeks (sometimes more often).  If you purchased the program right now you'd get version 2.5 and all updates until 3.0 came out for free. If we upgrade to 3.0 within 6 months of purchase you get the 3.0 line for free too (I don't think anyone else has an offer like that). Updating to 3.0 will probably be $250. We've been on version 2.x for about 18 months. If you purchase the $50 a month plan (we have a few different payment options) you get the report upload service ($20 by itself) and all updates as long as you're subscribed even if we update to a major version.

  Currently spell check is limited to the areas of the program where you can add your own documents and to the contract section. We had integrated it into the entire program a few months back but it slowed down the program quite a bit. My partner is rewriting the code to work it in without slowing down the program. 

1:35pm • #71

Thank you for accepting my comments as you did. The only reason I'm making them is because I like what you are doing and feel there is hope. I have given up on the others. What it is , is what it is. Take it or leave it.

I love the special effects  that you have made available for the pictures. And I understand what you mean about including the pictures in the report.

When do you see 3.0 coming out?

That's great that you have different payment options, it makes it alot easier to afford. My girlfriend is very expensive and I need all the money I can get my hands on.

1:47pm • #72

Hahaha, yes girlfriends are very expensive, especially if you still have a wife. 

3.0 is still quite a ways off. I'd guess 6 months to a year. We don't just jump up a version to force everyone to upgrade like some other companies do. Like I said, its been 18-20 months since we hit 2.0 and we're only on 2.5. There are a few big ideas we have for 3.0 but we might just end up working them into the 2.x line and then 3.0 would just be a continuation without any huge new features. It's hard for me to withhold a feature to make a big entrance with a new version. I don't know if that makes good business sense or not, we will see.

 

2:10pm • #73

Yeah, my wife's gone. Well she's really not gone, the house is still there, just I'm not in it.

Dom, I look forward to seeing the upgrades we've been tallking about. I'm also going  to play with the tutorials.

-Steve

2:16pm • #74

Hi Steven & Bob,

 I had about 10 people ask me today to create a way to add all the photos in a folder at once, so I'm working on it now! It's really strange sometimes how no one asks for a feature then all of a sudden a bunch of people do. Then again, maybe they all read this thread :)

  I'm about half way done and hope to have a beta tonight. Let me know if you'd like to try it out. 

Dominic
http://www.HomeInspectorPro.com

8:30pm • #75

Yes yes and more yes.

I just spent five hours on Horizon with a lot of my time on photos.

Pics are getting more important what with some guys including thermal images and all.

9:53pm • #76

Please send me a copy. I would love to try it out. If it's as good as I think it's going to be, I'll probably trash my Horizon credits.

Please try to do something about the table of contents and the tabs. It's all about saving motion. It will make everything easier and faster for the writer and the reader.

Ever watch a brick mason work. No wasted motion. If it takes 15 seconds to set a brick, and putting the morter tub a bit closer will knock off 3 seconds, by the end of the day, figure out how many more bricks he can lay and how much better his back will feel.

10:00pm • #77
Working on it.
10:07pm • #78

You're a good man Dominic,

I have a feeling that your system is going to end up as the UNDISPUTED champion!

Hey Bob, are you out there?

10:10pm • #79
I talked to him a few minutes ago. He said he was getting ready to go out and see his brother.
10:14pm • #80

Once you get this squared away, there is something else I will bring up. I don't want to burden you with too much at once. It has to do with templates.

I enjoy  giving you my input and happy that you are willing to hear it.

Some of the things may or may not be possible, but all of the little nuances that you put in, really do make a difference.

10:24pm • #81

Hey still here but leaving soon after a tiresome day.

Driving to the store then back here to catch a cab.

11:03pm • #82
OCT
24
2007

I should probably start a new thread since I'm taking over the brick veneer thread here. So my next post will be elsewhere!

 

Bob, Steven, just to let you know I finished up the progress meters on the bulk photo add feature and am working on the bookmarks. Have you guys tested the bulk add some more? Any problems with it? I haven't run into any difficulties in my testing.

2:17am • #83

Dominic you may add your blog to ask the inspector as we can switch there on your blog from my Home systems forum.

Bulk is great.Bookmarks? I know the only thing I am having a problem with is setting font size as it likes to stay at 12.

Section font size control is all left on my personal wish list.

3:26pm • #84

Hopefully I'll get to adding the in the font size and color for the section titles tonight. I still haven't decided on whether it will be global or whether it should be possible for each section to have it's own color & style. What do you guys think?

I'll look into the font size resetting, I'm assuming your talking about for the damage and selection fonts? Does it reset right after setting it, or after reopening the program? Are you making sure to save the template?

I'll explain the bookmarks when I can show you an example, hopefully soon :) 

 

 

5:39pm • #85

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Bob Elliott (Chicago Property Inspection)

Chicago, IL

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