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I have been granted an interview with an official from the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) sometime this coming week.  My goal is to relay to HUD the many questions I've encountered here from AR members as a result of my recent blog post on the subject of Fair Housing laws and enforcement issues.  The answers I obtain will become material for a future post on the subject.

If you have anything you wish to ask HUD about Fair Housing issues as they pertain to real estate licensees or consumers, please contribute your questions here.  I will forward an unedited copy of these questions to the HUD representative during my interview.

A WORD OF CAUTION: I would add that nothing obtained second-hand (or third-hand) from a post on Active Rain should be relied upon as a substitute for information provided in a state-approved Fair Housing course in your own state.  The information relayed in this and my future posts will be for informative purposes only.  You should contact HUD and/or your state licensing authorities on your own for accurate and reliable information about any Fair Housing-related question.

For background information on this topic and a look at related comments on the subject of Fair Housing by AR members, visit

http://activerain.com/blogsview/201191/Is-it-Condoning-Racism

You'll also read a very enlightening and informative post by Charles McDonald which deals with Fair Housing here:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/195786/Why-is-my-Agent

Copyright © 2007 by Eric Kodner, All Rights Reserved

Contact Broker Eric Kodner with Wayzata Lakes Realty about Minneapolis and Saint Paul area properties, including Lake Minnetonka. We also sell Lake Superior, including Bayfield and Madeline Island properties.  We know Minnesota and Madeline Island real estate!

Wayzata Lakes Realty LLC (Minnesota) and Madeline Island Realty LLC (Wisconsin)

Real Estate Brokerage licensed in Minnesota & Wisconsin

Phone or Text Message 612.670.2539

MadelineIsland@Gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 
Post is included in group: Wrong Right Turn
Post is included in group: African American Realtors

22 Comments on Contribute Your Questions for HUD Interview - Opportunity to Ask HUD Your Fair Housing Questions!

SEP
14
2007
The real problem is that we are cut off at the knees with some of these laws.  YES, we need anti discrimination laws. But I should be able to answer when a client ask me "Is this a safe neighborhood."  Before everyone is AR land jumps on me, Yes I know safe is a relative term.  But we know where the crime is and under buyers agency we are obligated to look out for our clients best interest.
2:04pm • #1
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I believe Fair Housing Laws supersede duty to a client.  My understanding is that your duties to a client exclude any activity which is forbidden by law.  In other words, you are not obligated to break the law in the process of serving your client.

2:25pm • #2
Subscribed and waiting for interview, you should video it and put it on youtube that would be awsome! Brian
7:02pm • #3
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp
Brian, I'll consider that..it would depend on their cooperation, of course.  Thanks for the great idea!
8:44pm • #4
188,613 Points 23 Featured Posts

David- I find it amazing to hear anyone state that they know where the crime is. If that is the case, by all means go offer your "kreskin" powers to the local law enforcement. Perception is everything. Crime occurs in every neighborhood in my area. The only source of information is the local law enforcement office. When a client asks you to be shown a safe neighborhood, how do you know what he/she is asking? From my experience, these vague statements usually are the first smoke screen thrown up by someone that wants to live in a neighborhood that has a certain racial composition.

It is a poor business decision to accomodate bigots. If someone asks about crime, I refer them to the proper source and invite them to visit the area at various times of day. Price is always the final factor. Mr. or Mrs. Client, I will show you every house in the price range you can afford that meets your other general criteria regarding bedrooms and bathrooms, etc. There is plenty of information available from many sources regarding the schools, master plan, churches, crime etc and I will be happy to point you in the right direction.

You are not protecting your clients best interest when you begin to use your value system and opinions to guide him or advise him. You are protecting your clients best interest when you provide them with sources for factual information so they can make an informed decision. You are not buying the house, they are.

10:38pm • #5
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

John, I agree whole-heartedly that it is too easy for some individuals to conceal their true intent to discriminate by cloaking the question as an inquiry about "crime".  And there is good reason to point anyone asking questions about "safe neighborhoods" in the direction of external resources.  Let them draw their own conclusions if they feel the need, but don't violate the law. 

10:46pm • #6
219,012 Points 56 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Here's my question for HUD Eric and I can't wait for you to report back to us.  I was recently asked by a top producer in my office to give her specific information about our local Catholic Elementary School.  Since my kids go to the school, I was able to give her my opinion on the particular academics and parent involvement in the school.  When I asked why she was asking, since she had no school aged children, she told me a customer had asked her specifically about that school.

When discussing this with other agents, the majority thought that if a customer asks about a particular school, you are allowed to give the information and no Fair Housing Laws are broken.  I was under a completely different impression - the boundaries when it comes to Fair Housing and schools are not very clear - I would love to get some real live examples.

examples:

  •  Customer asks, How are the schools in this area?  Realtor responds, there are 5 schools in the area, lists them and then tells them where to find more detailed information.  (right or wrong?)
  • Customer asks - I looked at all the schools and noticed that your local public elementary has an academic excellence program (can we answer details?)
  • I heard there are 3 pre-schools in your area:  Presbyterian Pre-school, Baptist Preschool and a Montessori Preschool, do they all teach religious education?  (those are real names by the way, can we answer yes or no?)

I can come up with several more examples, but I think I should let someone else have a go at it!  Thanks Eric.

Ines

 

10:55pm • #7
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp
Rick and Ines, thank you for commenting and for contributing a question.  I will relay your question to HUD and report back to you what I learn during the interview!
11:02pm • #8
SEP
15
2007
896,638 Points 20 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Eric - I just logged in and I see you got the ball rolling!!! Great, I encourage all to ask questions!!!

regards from Charlottesville

Charles McDonald

8:45am • #9
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Thanks, Charles!

This is a huge opportunity for ALL who have questions or uncertainty about what HUD expects us to do (and what will happen if we don't comply).

I would think that especially the members who wanted to argue with the way HUD does things would want to throw in their questions.  Let's see if those commenters truly want to know what the government requires or if they just wanted to gripe.

8:52am • #10
106,170 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

The Rick and Ines question could be addressed not only for schools, but as well for churches, synagogues, mosques, and any other temples of worship...

I think it is interesting that the question asked received information about parent involvement and academic performance or types of classes. But I p[resume the answer did not address the racial or ethnic complexion of the student population at the school...

The question and answers may not have gone over the line in this instance... 

So, the issue is a boundary issue: I can say that the school exists, as with the pre-schools, and I can say that they teach latin, but I cannot address the racial, religious, ethnic etc issues...

As with talking about commissions, the risk is not about discuss what I made on a previous deal, but rather trying to set up a situation where we agree to charge x always, so as not compete on price. Th echopiice of most agents would be to just not talk about it, since they fear overstepping the line. I think that is what happens here.

So my question would go to the boundaries, and an interpretation of case law that asks where is the line, and what constitutes breach...

Hope this ends up on You Tube... but I would be happy if it just ended up here.

9:37am • #11
219,012 Points 56 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Paul - I really think this would clear up a lot issues and you are right.  I would feel more comfortable being able to discuss issues knowing it is not a FH violation.  By someone asking me about the academics in a Catholic School that would raise flags on my side.......they asked about a particular "Catholic School".

The question I get often is what is the racial makeup - or is it diverse?  Is it in violation of FH to say that a particular neighborhood is DIVERSE. (without mentioning race)

Would it be in violation to mention all the pre-schools in an area, knowing 2 of them are of a specific religious denomination? 

I know the gender issue is not a FH violation - but what happens when someone asks if there's a large gay population in the area?

10:23am • #12
543,237 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Eric,

As evidenced by the various comments, compliance with the Fair Housing Laws and even the implementation of the spirit of such laws, carry with them many gray areas.

I would rather see HUD concentrate on the more evident and aggregious violators of RESPA. For example, 'one stop shopping' offices not only 'steer', but they 'power steer'. The motivation to circumvent the RESPA regs is monetarily more significant than the FH regs where most violations are of a 'moral' or 'ethical' nature.

I deplore descrimination in all its forms, however you don't have to go out to the highways and biways when the largest perps are right at your doorstep.

10:57am • #13
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Paul, thank you as always for your contribution!

Rick & Ines -- I think we have to keep in mind state and municipal laws regarding discrimination, in addition to Federal law.  Some areas/localities include gender preference as a protected category covered by anti-discrimination laws.  I will forward your question to the folks at HUD for reaction.

11:09am • #14
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp
Fran, thanks for your comments.  I will forward your comment about concentrating on the more egregious examples of discrimination to the HUD official when we meet.  It will be interesting to learn what they have to say about all these comments and I thank you and everyone else here for contributing!
11:12am • #15
191,355 Points 2 Featured Posts

Hello Eric!  After reading your post and the comments, I have 1 question, 2 suggestions for some of the problems posed by other members of AR, and a story.

Question:  I would like to learn to speak Spanish.  However, I feel that learning conversational Spanish is not going to be technically accurate enough to adequately explain real estate contract language to clients who do not speak English or very speak only a little English.  Am I opening myself to a liability issue if I attempt to translate some of the more technical aspects of real estate?  Many of our forms are printed in Spanish, but occassionally there are exceptions or special circumstances where we may not have a form to cover the situation.  Does HUD or any other government agency offer help with translating the type of technical language used in many real estate contracts?

Suggestion 1: I am not sure if it is available in all areas, but in Minnesota we have a magazine that evaluates schools.  When asked about the schools, I give clients a copy of this or give them the website: Schoolhouse Magazine.  Also, many areas have community guides (may be published by different companies in different areas) - I like to give copies of them to clients as well.  They have lots of information about city and public services, schools, churches, events, parks, and such.  Its also a nice way to help clients become familiar with an area.  So far, I have not had to pay for copies of either the Schoolhouse Magazine or the Community Guides published by Prime Advertising.  They are free under many circumstances.

Suggestion 2: As far as the "is this a safe neighborhood? question goes - I will always refer the client to a state or local government resource or website.  In Minnesota, the state is very clear on the issue of sex offenders and the website for the Department of Corrections and an 800 phone number are printed on the back of the disclosure form we use to explain agency to clients.  I think Minnesota may be one of a few states that actually puts this information on a form, but most states do have some crime and/or sex offender information available from the Dept of Corrections or other government agencies.  I sometimes will also refer clients to a local city or county government if they want more information.

A story...

I was born into a large family on the south side of Chicago in a very diverse neighborhood.  As a child, our family grew too large for our little upstairs apartment and our parents decided it was time to buy a house.  We couldn't afford the homes in the city, so we found a home in a very small town about 1 hour south of the city.  We didn't know it at the time (and this was certainly not intentional) but we ended up moving into a little town that was 100% white and nearly 98% were of German ancestory.  I have a half brother who is half Mexican and while the townspeople didn't try to burn us out of our home, it was obvious that they just "tolerated our presence" in their "pure" little town.  When I was growing up, there were at least 1 case where a home for sale was "mysteriously" burned to the ground before the new owners who were African American, could move in.

Just about 15 miles south of this little town is another very small town which has a very large African American population.  I suppose the demographic make up of the town may have been a carry-over from the days of forced segregation.  Some families likely stayed because that was where their relatives lived and others may have been trapped by harsh economic factors.  The land is not very good for farming and was at one time a very large swamp.  Many of the homes still do not have running water and there is no city sewer.  This is where my 70 year old mother goes for her medical care and no one in my family has ever felt "unsafe" or threatened in any way by anyone in the area.

When my sister (who is disabled with two disabled children) wanted to buy a home, she called me and asked for help.  I am licensed in Minnesota and she lives in Illinois, so I could not work with her directly, but I interviewed several REALTORs® over the phone for her.  I found her someone local for her to work with.  Because of her financial situation, she was interested in the Pembroke area - she was not able to afford homes in any of the other little surrounding towns.

During the process of interviewing prospective REALTORS®, I came across one woman who said she would absolutely NOT work with my sister because she feared for her safety in Pembroke - unless they money was right!  She actually left me a voicemail where she repated this 3 times - she did not feel safe in that area, but would "risk it IF the money was right!"

Needless to say I was appalled!  I urged my sister to file a complaint, but she really didn't want to deal with the paperwork/hassle (which is difficult due to her disability), so this so-called REALTOR® got off scott-free!  I found that I was not able to do anything about it without my sister's assistance because she was the injured party.

Could you ask your HUD person if there was anything else I could have done as an out-of-state REALTOR®?  This burned me up and I really would like to rid our profession of such small minded people who speak in the "code language of bigotry!"

Thanks a bunch!

 

   

 

 

4:18pm • #16
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Patti Ann -- Thank you for your questions, which I will forward to the HUD official during our interview.

Thank you also for the story.  My understanding is that an agent anywhere may bring a complaint against another agent, regardless of whether or not the two practice in the same state.  Just as a consumer/member of the public who is a non-licensee may bring a complaint, I don't think there is anything improper about a licensee in one state reporting the questionable conduct of an agent in another state.

I have always heard from attorneys that we are expected to report the misconduct of fellow licensees if it violates Fair Housing laws.  The same attorneys have told me that knowledge of such misconduct and failure to report it may be viewed as complicity.  When I meet with the HUD representative, I intend to Discuss that issue, among others.

Thank you again!

8:01pm • #17
SEP
17
2007
865,393 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

There are three things I wonder about.  These presented problems in ethics classes. 

First:  If a client asks for a property that is specifically near a particular type of house of worship (ie, near any Synagogue, or Baptist Church, or Catholic Church) can we show them houses that are only near the particular brand they are looking for? 

Second:  Can I provide statistically supported information?  "What kind of test scores does School A produce?  And how about School B?"

Third:  If a family is looking for a subdivision with lots of kids, can I legally only show them subdivisions with lots of kids? 

I've had instructors tell me yes... and no...
2:24pm • #18

John MacArthur

Ive been busy so i apologize for taking time to respond.  I STRONGLY disagree with your statements.  When I take out a young single person, buying their first home, a lot of the time the first questioned asked is about the safety of an area. They are not bigots and have no intentions of throwing any kind of smokescreen.  Almost 60% of my clientele is minority... they are concerned with safety and they come to us REALTORS because we are experts in our community.  Seriously, do you know th value of every home in your town just by looking at it from the road?  NO, but you can determine it or help a client determine a reasonable offer based on the information you have access to. Why is it that we are not allowed to help them analyse the crime info?  We are told we can't help, just send them to the police to get the info.  And the police will quote statistics and be somewhat vague... they are worried about the liability!

I have no delusions of being Kreskin, but after 11 years, I am more knowledgeable than most about the neighborhoods where I work. IT IS MY JOB! Yes, the POTENTIAL for crime is everywhere but clearly the potential is much higher in some places than others.  I used to live in Washington DC... the murder capitol of America, but there were places that were very safe.  In a city like DC, you are just dumb if you do not know the streets to stay off of.  The problem comes with not being able to tell a client these things.

Yes, the sins of our fathers created this mess. Yes, there is ignorance and hatred alive in our country today. But to assume that the real estate community and our clients are actively supporting this ignorance is an outdated way of thinking.

I would NEVER tolerate a bigoted client, in fact I would probably pull my car over and let them out... wherever we were.  You made a horrible assumption about me when you suggested those things.

Finally, most of us can tell the police where the crime is... They already know.  It is not a problem of knowing where the crime is, it is a problem with having the resources to combat it.

4:17pm • #19
SEP
18
2007
2 Featured Posts
Wow!  After reading all the comments and responses I am more confused than ever.  My understanding is that we can provide statistical information (for example test scores from a particular school that is asked for) as long as it doesn't discriminate against a protected group.  People of all races and nationalities wish to have information about the school(s) they are considering allowing their children to attend.  In addition, there are some areas of town that I would not feel comfortable working in personally, but would refer my client to an agent who is more familiar and comfortable with the area.  And NO, I wouldn't do it IF the money is right.
6:03pm • #20
SEP
19
2007
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Robin, hopefully this interview with HUD will clear up some of the confusion. 

 

12:21am • #21
SEP
21
2007
284,607 Points 37 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Eric, another great discussion.  I am looking forward to hearing your answers from HUD.  Thank you for taking the time to deal with such an important part of our business!
11:09am • #22

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Eric Kodner, Wayzata Lakes Realty - Twin Cities, Madeline Island Real Estate

Minnetonka, MN

More about me…

Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Twin Cities Homes

Address: 12500 Marion Ln W, Suite 4217, Minnetonka, MN, 55305

Office Phone: (612) 670-2539

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351 Old Fort Road, LaPointe, Wisconsin 54850


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LaPointe, WI 54850
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