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Are You Kidding Me? You Spent Our Dues on WHAT????

I got this in my email as part of the California Association of Realtors® newsletter last night:

C.A.R. today cut the virtual ribbon on its new Second Life headquarters building, accessible at http://secondlife.car.org or through www.secondlife.com. Second Life is a 3-D virtual world entirely built and owned by its more than 9.3 million "Residents" from around the globe.

"C.A.R.'s foray into the virtual world of Second Life through our headquarters building features numerous interactive and informational items, including the top five reasons to use a REALTOR®; information about the Association's upcoming trade show, the CALIFORNIA REALTOR® EXPO 2007; and informational take-away note cards for visitors," said C.A.R. President Colleen Badagliacco. "The virtual building replicates the C.A.R. logo, with an open-roof design to accommodate "fly-ins," the primary means of locomotion in Second Life."

And no, I didn't make this up. I have agents with second jobs to make ends meet in this market, and you have people on the payroll screwing around in Second Life using our Association Dues?

What's next? The California Association of Realtors® custom World of Warcraft UI?

Or is that on hold while you ship the California Association of Realtors® Green Light Sabre?

Posted by John Lockwood on 09/20/2007 12:38 PM

Comments (56)

56 Comments on Are You Kidding Me? You Spent Our Dues on WHAT????

SEP

2007

And I thought my assocation was bad...Good luck.

Very disappointing.......These are the same people that say it really is not that bad.

John-I was made aware of this great program through our Board of Realtors and large franchises are getting involved. The truth is to me this is the way the world is turning whether we like it or not we are turning hi tech....almost like Star Trek...pretty scary. You watch this site is going places...

Being a member of the board is not enough otherwise you will find out suprises like this but if you were to participate in most instances your voice might sound a little louder.

I did not like how things were going in our board as a matter of fact I found out things via the famous newsletter I will tell you now I am very involved with our board and if ever something is going on that is vital to all the realtors I usually have some kind of idea.

9.3 Million residents online...now that is a lot of people to market to!

No, that's not 9.3 million people to market to. It's 9.3 million nerds screwing around.

Great program? What's great about it?

I appreciate the lecture about the wolrd going high tech, but I'm not some Luddite who the Internet left behind.

I don't need to join the board. As you can see, I'm pretty loud now.

Wow...this takes ___ARs (fill in with N or your state prefix) to a whole new level!

That is pure craziness. On the otherhand, Coldwell Banker opened an office on Second Life, so their agents' franchise fees are being used for that venture. A CB agent in CA is now paying to maintain two offices on Second Life!

John- no lecture...I take action...as far as the high tech world...hate to say it but you are part of it! I understand exactly how you feel but the difference is I am involved in the decision making. To me that is the issue here! You can only change things if you participate...you can only change things if you are involved.

As far as the nerds you refer to...I'll be more than happy to sell them a house anyday...

The difference is you're involved in the decision making? So how is me talking to someone involved in the decision making not participating?

CAR is selling houses now in SecondLife now? Really? Are they real houses, or SecondLife houses?

How are they distributing the leads? Of the 9.3 million nerds in SecondLife, how many are there trying to find a Realtor in California? How many leads have been generated? How many houses sold?

Why do you hate to say that I'm part of the high tech world. You seem to think that because I object to this, I'm some kind of Luddite who doesn't know his business. How many Realtors were blogging in 2003? You're talking to one. I know what I'm part of, and I know how successful I am at it. I also know the difference between successfully prospecting in the high tech world on commission and screwing around in a video game on salary. That's great that you're involved in the decision making, but in this case that's not a boast I'd be making.

absolutely AMAZING! Your CAR dues hard at work!!! Someone there has WAY too much time on their hands!

Ahh, bureaucracy at its finest.. wait for the $1000 toilets and$100,000 computer setup in the CEO's office. Anyone say petition time?

Yup... It just plain sucks to be forced to pay into the monopoly of the "associations" When we converted to the Statewide MLS they up'd the dues substantially so they can keep all the little independent associations afloat... Realtors can be struggling but the fat cats never tighten their belt!

Crazy - Its like wasteful government spending.

John-As far as what they are doing on second life you should know, afterall you brought this topic to the forefront.

You may be a member but attending board meetings and actively participating in the decisions is what I am talking about. It happenened to me, the same reaction, what the heck is my board thinking? Why are they spending money on this? I was a member a long time without a voice.... I chose to participate and be involved and if I liked something I said yes and if I didn't I said no and explained why.

We all know that the Californians are very advanced when it comes to technology. Not trying to take anything away from you...You earned your success and your technology brilliance. Wish more agents in Volusia County were the same! I think we can agree to disagree...I love it!

As far as Second Life and all the nerds you refer to you can read some of their business success stories. I say to each his own and would never judge the book by it's cover. Why, they could be my next customer or friend...... Just like Activerain.....Second Life is another social network!

Success with Second Life

To Your Continued Success...........

John, anytime we starting thinking about anything from the local board level on up, it turns our head into a morass of negative incredulity. There's dinosaurs in them there hills... and their time is gone. What they come up with to prolong their extinction is always a wonder.

Cheers...

This is amazing...Keep us posted on how many realtor complaints they get!

I had never even heard of Second Life until today. An associate of mine asked me if I live in a cave...ouch!

It does seem to be a colossal time waster in my opinion, but then I don't know anything about it. Guess what I'm going to do now? Waste some time in Second Life :-)

I'd heard of 2nd life but never been in there, I'm going to have to go check it out if there are possible benifits to it. Wait for me Karen!

John - good grief is all I could say when I read your post. I read Midori's responses, and I'm still finding I'm saying 'good grief'. I must admit I've only checked out Second Life very briefly, but cannot imagine an association spending money on something like that, unless I'm just really missing the boat there, too.

Ann

Unbelievable, we are considering laying off staff in Ann Arbor because of the amount of realtors hanging it up.

I've actually heard that there is a lot of business being conducted on that site- REAL money is being made in this virtual world.. I'm sure they are being proactive and trying to stay ahead of the crowd based on research- not just an impulse to be apart of a gaming system. Sounds like it’s worth checking into..

Wow, I'm a member of CAR and I had no idea! I'm also a geek and never have done the second life thing...I'm too busy blogging. What will they think of next?

i am a midwesterner and this is absolutely amazing!!! I fear a world where we are all so glued to televisions, computers and video games that we miss building real life relationships with real people directly around us in our "First Life"! I am not opposed to technological advances, but everything in moderation is what we often forget.

John - It is nuts. For all those that see this as some sort of benefit, I ask - for who? They are collecting dues from everyone. It would seem that money should be spent that will benefit everyone. Isn't it nice to know that you can be forced to pay for nerds to play a new version of Sim City just so you can maintain your position as a Realtor.

I'm sure there's a business model that fits there, music video players, acne cream, what have you. But I still haven't heard from Midori (or anyone) about the business we're in -- when we're not sitting around griping about dumb things our associations do -- the real estate business. How many homes have been sold as a result of Realtor(r) participation there? How many real estate inquiries have even been generated?

Nia, it's generous of you to accuse our membership of research, but ok, then, where's the research that supports people selling first life real estate on second life? Has anyone here done a transaction with someone they met there? Does anyone here know anyone who knows anyone who's done a transaction with someone they met there?

And even if there is someone, does that justify CAR spending money on it? Are they supposed to be generating leads, or supporting us with fine services like their legal team? And if they are supposed to be generating leads, does the evidence of one transaction prove anything? I know a Realtor(r) who used to always hang around in the bar -- and she got some business from it.

So does that mean CAR should hang around the bar, and I would have to have some sort of committee position on a board somewhere before complaining about it would be valid? According to Midori Miller, that would seem to be the case.

I disagree. CAR / NAR / WhoweverAR already suck up my money. They don't need to suck up my time, too.

Ok, I am back and did some research while I was checking 2nd life out. I found out some really amazing things John. Here is a list from Wikipedia of Buisness's that have made real money from 2nd life and companies like CAR that have invested in the virtual world. (Including Dell, Toyota, MTV, ING to name a few) Yes, Coldwell Banker too.

OK, Lysa, I'll bite. How many houses sold there? Condos? Mobile Homes?

...

Pup tents? :)

John- seems to me you are having a very bad day or you are feeling a little defensive! This is no personal attack to you. Remember you are the one griping about your board. I support mine! You are ridiculing nerds and guess what we on activerain are not that much different...just a different venue!

You seem to be so offended about getting involved. I know where are board spends money, why, I am involved and participate. I help make decisions based on the best interest of everyone...everyone! You do not have to join committee's or be a board of director...you are a member I choose to be an active member. That way I can't complain about what happens with our board!

When you choose not to participate then guess what you have to live with the decisions that are made for you! It's that simple.

Maybe our board is different, we do things to generate business for all with International Council (lead generation), Affordable Housing(participation and lead generation). I could go on and on!

Yes we are in the business to sell houses and we are also professional people...At least I would like to think so!

To your continued success......

John, This was posted in the San Francisco Chronicle, Real Estate In An Unreal Worldabout Coldwell Bankers virtual model of a real-world home. It's pretty interesting.

I think that sucks. With everything going on in this market? The market must be booming down in your area. Sorry to hear that.

Midori,

I'm having a great day (albeit it an unproductive one) and I'm not defensive at all. I don't think we need to bring psychological terms into this perfectly wonderful debate. I'm simply arguing that I don't have to let the boards mismanage my time as well as my money.

As for choosing not to participate, I'm participating right now. The point of having representative boards is that they can represent us, not just so they can brag about how they participate and quell dissent from anyone who doesn't belong to a committee.

I don't have to live with the decisions that are made for me. I can complain about them here. Then my representatives can not represent them to anyone. This is called democracy. :)

As for your role generating leads, great, let's see some. I've been paying dues to CAR and EDCAR for five years - zero leads. NAR I've gotten a couple if I also paid for Realtor.com, but that's not included in NAR membership unless you're the broker (and "included" is stretching a bit given one photo per property). Or maybe you have to "choose to participate" to get those, and the rest of us can live with the decision of where those leads went?

So much leads in general. Where are ANY of the leads that Second Life is generating?

Lysa, yes, that was an interesting article. Try searching for the word "Sold" and it gets even more interesting... :)

So can I interest you in some nice virtual property, I accecpet virtual money?

John, may I suggest that you go over and take a look at Fred Miller's blog. He is offering all Realtors a place to put your listings and guarantees that you will get the leads that come from the listings unlike the rest of the trappers along the river who take our leads. I'd put a link in but continue to tell others not to so I won't do it here on your article. Just search his name above in Active Rain and take a look at his blog article that he has offered for all of us to contemplate.

I do see some marketing and branding opportunities with this, but I don't think there are enough overall results yet on which to commit major dollars. Exactly how much did this cost CAR?

Daniel, the check is in the virtual mail. Don't spend it all in the same place.

Gena, thanks for the tip, I'll look into it. However it's not so much that I want for leads as that I object to an organazation using my dues to do a poor job of generating more of them that I'll never see. I'll check it out though.

John, I don't know about CAR, but according to the article Lysa posted, "Coldwell Banker says the cost of building a presence in Second Life, including its land and offices, was less than $50,000."

This is a very interesting topic, especially now that Facebook, myspace, ActiveRain, LinkedIn, and other networking sites are becoming en vogue lately... Second Life takes it further, and is really a full generation ahead of itself -- ever think of whether or not movies like the Matrix, Strange Days, or more appropriately, the Thirteenth Floor could actually happen someday? This is the sort of concept that could change the way we live, for better or worse, and as someone else mentioned, CAR isn't the first organization to dump money into it. (and perhaps the amount they spent will make a difference as to whether it was foolish or an innovative investment)

Has Toyota actually sold REAL cars on the website, or have numerous foreign countries convinced people to immigrate or travel to their REAL country with their Second Life embassy? Maybe not at this point, but there are clear signs that there may be something to the concept, and some entities feel it's worth establishing a presence now instead of following the leaders later.

I understand how you feel like it's a waste of money in a down economy, but I think complaining about an online investment of this sort is similar to old-school realtors complaining about money spent on the internet and electronic SupraKeys years ago... You may just look back and wonder how the world operated without such things. (and as for the 9.3 million 'nerds' on the site; weren't fantasy football players considered nerdy 10 years ago? Now look at it. ...at least Second Lifers aren't running around pretending to be pixies and warlocks and sorcerers, collecting weapons and spells!)

my two cents.

and I should mention that no, I've never been on Second Life, nor do I know anyone who has been...(although I may just check it out now that we're all talking about it!)

What will they think of next? How about a national virtual MLS, where you get all the MLS data and a google earth and street level sidewalk tour, including walking through the front door to check out the interior?

I'd be willing to pay for that!

actually... forget what i just said -- I think Bernie just nailed it!

Online investment? No, $500 a month for ad placements, IDX, hosting -- that's an online investment. $3,000 a year in PPC advertising with monitored results, likewise. $50,000 to sell fake houses on a computer game is just stupid.

But what do I know. There I go getting portrayed as a backwards Luddite again. I guess selling real houses on that old fangled Google thang is just sooooo ten minutes ago. Now where did I leave my wooden lockbox key again? Hang on a minute -- just let me stir up my coconuts so I can type some more. :)

I just don't understand Second Life. It doesn't make any sense to me, but then MTV and ESPN didn't either when I first heard about them.

Do you read Wired magazine? If not, then look up their articles on Second Life. They did one a little over a year ago when it was hitting the big time and a follow up a month or so ago. They specifically address the CB office and the fact that the big money being spend in Second Life is totally missing the point of the place. Folks don't go there to get marketed to-they avoid it like the plague.

Leigh Brown, I think you nailed it, thank you.

"The art of real estate through terrestrial contact. My life as a real estate alien" a book funded by the support of the National Association of Realtors (YOU and Me)

"The effects of sub prime mortgages on the interplanetary population of the Nebula Saris" See above

"homes.com and you. How to get every dime form agents and brokers. A study on extortion and thievery in the United Sates" See above

Actual book titles? Could be.....You decide

I do support my local boards that I belong to. I support CAR, NAR and well beyond. I do not support convoluted ideas of our future in real estate. I AM on the web, have been and will be...forever. Even if those around me say that the Internet is just a fad.

The 50+ folks adapting to the changing face of real estate? What you see here is what you get.

I ALSO see the set up on the site for future abuse. I see narrow minded franchises attempting to dominate through a "virtual planet" that is eventually dominated by worthless advertising. Has anyone ever looked at the first few pages of of a popular real estate magazine? One that you pay for. What do you see? This virtual worldwill be no different. After all...everyone there drives a Pontiac. I think I'll have to go get my Aztec tent come suv-Winnebago tomorrow. Will the site meet the same imminent demise as Pontiac?

I think I will just keep progressing with the rest of the planet and leave yesterdays thoughts and ideas where they belong. Fond memories....MEMORIES none the less.

SEP

2007

Briefly check out the Second life site -- and all can say is who cares about this? Who wants it? No idea here. Amazing they are using your fees for this when as you say there are agents hanging on and struggling in this market. Just amazing.

It would appear that the folks at CAR have a bit too much time on their hands and have decided that, rather than sitting around contemplating their navel, they created a virtual existance.

Would that they would spend the same amount of time expediting member requests for services. Ooops, that's my MLS. I got confused.

Good Morning John, First, I have to LOL @ Lenn :)! Reading all the comments here, I more understand your frustration and more understand the CAR's decision to go into the virtual world. I've decided to venture into 2nd Life as I love computer games, (and those who know me know I am NOT a nerd) I will later blog about how I feel about 2nd Life and it's relationship to Real Estate when I get deeper into it.

Hi Lysa,

To bad you're not a nerd -- you could hang with me. I certainly am. :)

We could brush up our Latin.

John, I have a heard enough time with English! :)

First John, let me say that I am trying very hard to NOT be offended by the fact that you obviously feel that those who play "online games" are not worth selling homes to.

Secondly, I'll add that I've never played Second Life. You'd be better of marketing to me with one of those World of Warcraft custom UIs. So, I read up on it. And from the articles, it sounds like Coldwell Banker bought a LOT of land in a very prime area- perhaps the equivilent of buying huge tracts of land in some of LA's most desirable suburbs. So, I can believe that they spent $50k doing that, but I doubt that CAR spent anywhere near that much.

Also- if you had just found out CAR had spent money on a series of TV ads (as an example), would you be as upset? Because that is essentially all it is, buying an ad. And yes, Second Lifers don't want to be marketed to anymore than anyone else. But with the advent of TiVO, people aren't watching TV commercials anymore either, so why bother, right?

And I'll leave you with this. More and more people are getting involved in online games. And I'd be willing to bet that the demographics are pretty skewed to the younger generation, most likely 30 and under. Not because only "younger" people like to play games, but because that generation grew up with computers always around, and they are comfortable interacting with and through them, for good or ill. Which means, as you grow older, and start looking to retirement, I hope you get over your aversion to marketing to "nerds". Because that is where the money will be.

I had briefly mentioned Second Life in my V entry for my A-Z series. I took the time to jump in, look around, and see what it was about. There may be a time in the future when it is a viable marketing media for those of us that don't have nerd departments to dedicate to these types of things (calm down, nerd departments is a joke!!). Right now, I don't think it is there yet.

I don't think the GAR is in there yet...

I guess the big question I would have is what is it costing? If it is a reasonable amount, then it might be ok. If there are spending tens of thousands of dollars, that seems to be a real problem for me.

The next question I would have is what do they hope to accomplish? Obviously, Coke wants to sell more yummy sugar water, but what is the CAR hoping to gain. More REALTORS(R)? Are there not enough already? Consumer education? Perhaps the NAR should be heading that up.

I'd be curious to know more.

Whoever it is who's trying hard "not to be offended by the fact that you obviously feel that those who play 'online games' are not worth selling homes to", let me simplify it for you. That's not what I said. I believe everyone should own a home that can afford one and wants one and wants to use me as an agent. :)

It's easier to not be offended by what I'm saying if you don't put words in my mouth that mischaracterize my position. What I was taking issue with was an organization which has a monopoly on entry into my profession and therefore in some respects imposes a tax on my work product spending that money frivolously on low yield, high ego advertising.

I don't have an aversion to marketing to nerds. I am a nerd. Used to be a computer programmer, watched Star Trek (still do), no luck with women -- you name it. In fact, one could argue that N2N marketing is my business model, and has been for years. The difference is that 1) my business model actively targets nerds who are looking for a home, rather than nerds who are trying to enjoy themselves online and 2) my spending on it is discretionary rather than compulsory and 3) I get the 100% of the leads from it, several per day, rather than 0% of the leads, 0 over more than five years.

Maybe you can now begin sending them "imaginary dues" that have real value in your own virtual world.

Bill Gates, the "head nerd" has a net worth of 59 BILLION real world dollars.

Maybe you ought to take a look at the rationale and reasons for doing this experiement before you damn it so soundly.

My association built this member benefit from scratch http://www.viewhomes.com/ and as a side benefit provides these streaming video clips to use on our personal and company websites.

SEP

2007

John,

Perhaps I can help here. I consider myself somewhat of a cornicopia of unique ideas. Perhaps we can save your dues money by closing the actual CAR headquarters and reducing it to strictly a virtual one ! !

SEP

2007

great post. Thanks for sharing it with us all

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