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Recessed Lights Are Evil

By
Home Inspector with Structure Tech Home Inspections

I love recessed lights, but even the best ones create a ridiculous amount of heat in attics, which can lead to ice dams.  Until I started performing infrared inspections in attics, I never quite grasped how much heat recessed lights contributed to attics, but now my eyes are wide open.  The main problem I find with recessed lights is that they’re not insulated well enough; on a recent home inspection in Maple Grove, I found a home with forty-six recessed lights sticking up in to the attic, along with some wicked ice dams on the roof.

A standard recessed light will stick up in to the attic about seven inches.  If an attic has fourteen inches of  loose fill fiberglass insulation, how much insulation does that leave on top of the recessed light?  Hang on, let me get my calculator…

At any rate, there’s far less insulation above recessed lights than anywhere else in the attic, and these are the areas that get the hottest, so they should really have more insulation than anywhere else in the attic.   Unfortunately, that never happens.  The combination of minimal insulation and hot light fixtures shows up clear as day using an infrared camera.

Recessed Light in attic with IR overlay

The images above show how much heat is leaking through the insulation above an IC rated, airtight recessed light with a 75-watt incandescent bulb.  IC rated means that it’s safe to have insulation directly in contact with the light, but it’s not synonymous with airtight.  You can usually tell if a recessed light is airtight just by looking inside it; if there are a bunch of holes inside the housing, it probably isn’t airtight.

Non-airtight recessed light

If you can see light pouring through on the attic side, it’s definitely not airtight.  All of these little holes in the housing are passageways for heated air to escape in to the attic; they’re called attic bypasses.

Non-airtight recessed light

Having said all this, I don’t think recessed lights are truly ‘evil’, but they sure can cause a lot of problems, and there seems to be very little understanding of this in the building trades.   Here’s what you can do to prevent problems:

If you plan to install recessed lights that are going to protrude in to your attic, make sure they’re airtight, IC-rated lights.  After the lights are installed, be sure to double down on the amount of insulation above the lights; you’re gonna need it.

If you already have airtight recessed lights in your home, you probably need way more insulation installed on top of them.  This is usually quite simple to do, but without an infrared camera, it might take a little time to locate all the lights.

If you already have non-airtight recessed lights sticking up in to your attic, don’t worry; there’s a fix for this.   Simply construct an airtight box out of rigid foam insulation, and ‘glue’ it together with spray foam.

Insulated Box

Now place this airtight box over the offending recessed light in your attic, and use a bunch more expanding foam to seal it up and make it completely airtight.   Not only will this prevent air leakage from around the light, but it will dramatically increase the insulation level above the light.  While the box pictured below is the ugliest box I’ve ever seen (I built it), it’s still very effective at preventing heat loss.

Insulated box over recessed light

If constructing and installing insulated boxes throughout your attic seems like too much work, you could always replace any standard incandescent light bulbs with compact fluorescent lights; they produce far less heat, they’re easy to install, and you’ll start saving money on your electricity bills.

Christine Smith
Buyers Brokers Only LLC - www.BuyersBrokersOnly.com - Canton, MA
Exclusive Buyer Agent & Attorney, Canton, MA

We have recessed lights and I never knew this!  I will be sending my husband up in the attic to take a look at them & see if they need insulation.  (He will be thrilled I am sure!!) Ironically, the room with the recessed lights is also in the part of the house that gets the least amount of sun.  So the sun doesn't  hit the gutters as much & that's where the ice dams are.  I assumed it was the sun....never thought about the recessed lights.

Feb 02, 2011 01:34 AM
Ryan Dressel
Stage Right Design, Inc. - Roseville, CA
Sacramento Home Staging

Great post and thanks for sharing a solution. Now I guess I'll have to crawl around in the attic.

Feb 02, 2011 01:38 AM
Tom Robinson
Keller Williams Realty Kingstowne/Alexandria, VA Office - Fairfax, VA
Experienced Real Estate, Professional Serving No. VA and DC

Wow! Great information. I wasn't aware of that and will make note on an upcoming renovation.

Feb 02, 2011 01:46 AM
Keith Lawrence
Christie's International - Mahwah, NJ
ABR, SFR

Great post.  I like your solution in the attic.  I agree with you about the LED bulbs that they are high in price. However,yesterday I was in Home Depot and they are coming down in price.  Give them a couple of years and they will be reasonablely priced.

Feb 02, 2011 01:48 AM
Aaron Seekford
Arlington Realty, Inc. - Arlington, VA
Ranked Top 1% Nationwide 703-836-6116

Very good stuff, Reuben. Will be reblogging once I get back to the office. Great photographs too...

Feb 02, 2011 01:52 AM
Ritu Desai 703-625-4949
Samson Properties - Chantilly, VA
Northern Virginia,Washington DC & Maryland Realtor

Great information Reuben. I am planning to install recess in my home and I will keep your blog in mind.

Feb 02, 2011 02:10 AM
Michael Simcock
Coldwell Banker (Elk Grove, CA) - Elk Grove, CA
Elk Grove, CA Realtor 916 425-1084

In the winter, can feel the cold coming from the attic through the lights into the home. The foam box would be a great way to stop that.

Feb 02, 2011 04:07 AM
Kate McQueen
Realty Associates Texas - Cypress, TX
Tailored service for your real estate needs!

Great information, and I have often wondered about that.  I have the big boxy ones with long fluorescents in my kitchen and have been planning to take them out.  During hurricane Ike, insulation blew into them from the wind that it made it's way into my attic.  That was a good clue that I needed to change them out, but they are also dated.  An upgrade is in order.

Feb 02, 2011 04:41 AM
Bill Rozek
Embrace Home Loans, Inc. - Potomac, MD
NMLS #214260

Thanks for the information, Reuben.  I think the ultimate solution is definitely LED bulbs.  The price has come way down on them, LED bulbs can now be had for about $6-$10 each for this purpose,  use 5 or 6 watts of electricity and really work well for this kind of application.  CFLs can still cost this much if not bought in a multi-pack.

Feb 02, 2011 06:42 AM
Joyce Herr
Prudential Lancaster Real Estate - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster County & Beyond

Good idea about installing the foam box over the lighting to prevent heat escape and allow easy access.

Feb 02, 2011 07:16 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Thanks for the comments, all!  I can't respond to everyone, but I'll try to get back to everyone who had follow-up questions.

Jay - I had no idea about all of those medical conditions created by CFLs.  I suppose it's the same for standard FLs too?

Peggy - great question.  Yes, there are rules as to how close insulation can come to the older, Non-IC rated lights.  If recessed light is not IC-rated, you should usually maintain at least 3" of clearance around the light. 

Ginny - I'm also quite clueless about any medical conditions related to CFLs.  I see a follow-up post on this topic in Jay's future...

Ed - as the prices of IR cameras continues to go down, you'll start seeing them in your area.

Fred - I was going to say that the cheapest, worst camera available is selling for $2500 new, but it looks like there's a new, even cheaper one selling for $1200 today at http://www.professionalequipment.com/flir-i3-infrared-camera-i3/flir-thermacam-infrared-cameras/ .   The price goes up from there.  The 'formal' training typically takes about 24 hours or so, but it takes a lot of practice before you can really understand what you're seeing.

Sharon - I've never considered the foam rose cones, but that sounds like a fantastic idea.  I'll have to try that next.

Charles - and that's without the lights on.

Bill - I haven't been able to find any LEDs for nearly that cheap.

Feb 02, 2011 07:55 AM
Bill Rozek
Embrace Home Loans, Inc. - Potomac, MD
NMLS #214260

Try www.dealextreme.com .  They are a company out of Hong Kong that my assistant has used for several purchases.  He says shipping is usually free or about the cost of a postage stamp.

Feb 02, 2011 08:10 AM
Christine McDaniel
Christine McDaniel Realty, LLC - Avon, IN
Broker Associate

Reuben - Thank you for such a wonderfully informative post.  I saw it this morning and didn't have time to comment.  So glad I found it again.  The comments have really added to the post! 
Go Active Rain!

Feb 02, 2011 05:06 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I don't know.  But I have posted stuff about CFL's before and nobody cared!  So what did I do?  Hoarded incandescents!  All sizes!  I have enough for the next century!

The gubment has no more authority to tell me which light bulbs to buy (and to prevent me from buying certain ones) than they do to tell me that I have to eat Twinkies for breakfast or that I MUST buy their health "care."

But that is just me...

Feb 02, 2011 08:38 PM
Dale Ganfield
Leland, NC

Hi Reuben, great information.  The design concept with foam insulation and a sealed attic space will avoid the heat loss and ice dam issue for many spaces.  Great for new construction, but does not help the existing homes.  Your box solution is clever.

Feb 03, 2011 12:36 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

When I do an energy audit I have standard language in the report that explains about placing insulated boxes over recessed lights.

Feb 08, 2011 08:54 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Bill - I checked it out, thanks for the link.

Christine - thanks!

Jay - what about paying taxes?

Dale - thanks.  Every box I've ever seen looked a lot better than mine, but it's still quite effective.

James - great idea.  I haven't done any energy audits, nor have I had any type of training on doing them.  Maybe some day in the far future...  if I do, I'll be sure to chat with you first.

Feb 08, 2011 09:15 AM
Pamela Seley
West Coast Realty Division - Murrieta, CA
Residential Real Estate Agent serving SW RivCo CA

Reuben, this is very informative post, as I did not know recessed lighting can cause problems in the attic. I also agree with Jay #11 comment about cfls.

Jan 08, 2012 07:29 PM
David Popoff
DMK Real Estate - Darien, CT
Realtor®,SRS, Green ~ Fairfield County, Ct

Reuben great post and comments that follow, thanks for the information.

Jan 08, 2012 10:06 PM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Pamela - thanks.  You probably don't have nearly as much to worry about in your climate.

David - thanks for reading! 

Jan 08, 2012 10:31 PM