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Regarding Today's Inman News Article

Members of the ActiveRain Real Estate Community,

Recently Inman News reported on a lawsuit brought by ActiveRain against Move, Inc. Of course reports of this nature raise a lot of questions, and it has always been a part of our culture to openly discuss things with our community. We would like to be able to discuss these issues more with you. However, since this is a matter of pending litigation, our counsel advises us not to comment.

Should you be interested in the positions of ActiveRain and Move, Inc. in this lawsuit, attached are ActiveRain's Complaint and Move, Inc.'s Answer filed with the Court in this proceeding.

We thank you for your continued support and understanding.

ActiveRain Complaint

Move Response

Update: We've been informed the links to the two documents are currently not working. We deployed code updates to the site early this morning, and it appears to have overwrote the documents, will be fixed shortly. Fixed now...

Posted by ActiveRain Real Estate Network on 09/27/2007 04:08 PM

Comments (137)

137 Comments on Regarding Today's Inman News Article

SEP

2007

Understandable that you cannot comment while it is pending litigation...just came as a surprise that this was happening.

We wish you all the best of luck and success in whatever happens, we are behind you all 100%.

I'm supporting this network. I love this network. Harumph.

Thank you for being forthright and open in bringing this to our attention.

Thanks for addressing it :)

I have five bucks on 12 spins offs :)

TLW...ROAR!

I don't bet but I think there will be 15.

Thanks for commenting and yes, understandable that you can't comment any more. I as well am supporting AR on this one.

Thank you for discussing it openly, it is part of the reason why I love AR.

Cheers,

Cindy

Completely support Active Rain. Wonderful outlet.

Nice damages claim in Section IV. The dot.com boom may be back. ;-)

Thank you, I love Active Rain!

I hope everything turns out well for you. Legal issues always take so long and cost so much for everyone involved. Good luck!

Well Move is not well loved in the real estate industry due to its excessive fees it charges for those enhanced Realtor.com listings, among other things. I'm interested to see what happens...

Good Luck. We love you.

I WAS HOPING IT WAS TARGETING **** MOVE ON ORG. ****

Hey Missy, I figure AR owes you about a million for all the work. do members get a share of damages based on the points? While agents are blogging and commenting for points and SEO, and getting " tips" on when and how to blog and how to be a better blogger, others get a big blooming payoff. There is no active rain w/o the community members. Who else can you get to do all this work for free except real estate agents.

Thanks for posting, I just walked in, opened up Inman and FREAKED OUT !!!

Understandably you can not comment but if you read Inman you get a good idea what happened. I hope you had a confidentiality agreement with them before you shared so much of the back end.

Obviously we want what is best for you all, it is your baby but it is a little unnerving to think what might happen.

Love ya, hang tough !!

Good Luck, hopefully we aren't paying to defend the cause in which you are suing through our dues.

I urge every Realtor to read the complaint!

Quite understandable being in litigation and not being able to comment. We only wish the best of luck to Active Rain. We love this site and will support you throughout.
Bob and Lisa

Follow the money, Best wishes to the settlement.

I saw the Inman article and knew right where to go to get the scoop. =-)

As a fellow technology start-up, we feel your pain. Good luck! We know who wears the white hat around here.

Even though you can't comment we all appreciate this post. After reading your complaint I am just stunned. Yes, I read all 27 pages. Sending positive energy and wishes to all of you with Active Rain. I know this will be a long tiring journey for you all.

Honestly, I have to say I'm glad that Move didn't get its grubby paws on AR. They would have seriously corrupted it. However, because I'm not a fan of Move, I hope that AR is successful in the suit. It's always nice when the bullies have to finance their competition...

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

How did Realtor.com/Move.com expect to become successful without us, the membership? Realtor.com has been repelling Realtors with their high prices and lack of performance for well over a year now. Free blogs - for how long? They do not rank up on the engines now on their own, they need AR to do that. What are they offering the membership that we do not already have? Ok, so maybe in about 6 months we would all acheive similar rankings to what we already have?

I think you guys at AR are fantastic, but I have to ask. Why the hell did you jump into bed with such losers to start with? If they were going to pay it somebody else would have as well.

Live and learn.

OK OK I know I have an attitude about Realtor.com, but I have never hidden that! You should hear me when I get going about House Values!

Thanks for the info - I read it and am disappointed at how you guys were treated - Wishing you the best in getting the compensation you deserve!!!

I read the complaint....those brats! :) I am completely behind you 100%.

I am sticking with AR all the way! Sorry to hear this all happened but I appreciate the honesty. I am like TLW and raise the bet to 10! With all the publicity we'll be hitting 100k members in no time. We all know Move/Realtor.com always has a hidden agenda...

Looks like you documented well and best wishes. We are behind you!

Unless I'm mistaken, a public company must disclose lawsuits that are considered "material" in the first filing following the filing of the litigation. The lawsuit was filed in early August and MOVE filed an 8-K statement with the SEC on September 17th. No mention of the lawsuit is included.

Perhaps MOVE doesn't consider the lawsuit "material".

Glad Inman published this. It needed to come out. MOVE's perfidy was palpable. So, what's new.

Kind of reminds me of walking in a basement and seeing a "high water mark" about a foot above the slab and black mold growing all over the drywall. It wasn't disclosed because the seller didn't consider it "material".

I just read it on Inman! WOW!

I saw this on Inman a little while ago and checked here a couple of time for a response. Thanks for posting this.

AR is leaps and Bounds ahead and above Realtor.com and its sisterhood of companys. I hope you all bring home the $$$$.

So one hour after getting ALL our confidential information, they cancel. How ruthless ! I agree with Laurie, no one likes r dot c, we tolerate them. They have never cared about Realtors, only the money. I'm glad I haven't renewed yet, my sellers may just have to get over it. Someone said it will be our money they use to defend themselves. NOT !

I recommend anyone who started a blog there to cancel. I am, I tried it when it first came out to see how it was going to work. So off to take it down !!

I certainly don't want them to have control of my thoughts and posts or the intellectual property rights of AR.

Thanks for sharing what you can - gotta love some of their responses - we don't know anything about it, so we decline comment.

I am happy to be a part of AR and wold not want to be a victim of R.com.

Good Luck!

The number at the top right says it all... Almost 50,000 members! And loyal might I add.

Other real estate social networks have no strong base. The blogging leaders are here... and will stay here.

Move would have been much better off going through with it.

We are too busy to migrate over to some inflated corporate platform.

And the sleazy way they stole the the information shows exposes their sleaziness.

We will rally behind the pioneers first.

Imitators will only get the scraps... this has been proven before.

Wow. You guys are fantastic at AR! I wish you guys the best of luck in this situation. Thanks for all that you do!

I appreciate your sharing the information. I will readily admit I am confused. The owners of AR (the good guys) were in the process of selling AR to Move (the bad guys). All the current members of AR were a commodity as well as the software used by AR. Move (the bad guys) waited until they received information about the software and the members (the commodity) and back out of the deal. So the owners of AR (the good guys) were in the process of selling the whole ball of wax to Move (the bad guys). If they had not backed out, the software and members (the commodity) would now be owned by Move (the bad guys).

Move (the bad guys) pulled the plug and the owners of AR (the good guys) are suing them for failing to complete the deal.

I realize that putting together a commodity has the ultimate goal of packaging and selling. In this case, would we be cheering if Move (the bad guys) had completed the deal? It seems striking that many are posting " I support you" when the you was in the process of selling us to them.

Maybe I just don't get it, but I do enjoy the community.

Go get them, Jonathan.....Slimy, and sleezy stuff....

Wow guys, I'm sorry this happened! Behind you 100% on this one kids!

You guys have been awesome since I joined last July. What you designed works, I have several sites that prove it beyond doubt. Give 'em hell.

Here in the beginning; here until the end (if it ever arrives).

Mark

Interesting information...I'd like to hear what the outcome will be.

Wondering what Dustin has to say about this? Guess he cannot comment either though.

Good luck guys!

Thanks for letting us know. I expect this will go on for some time. Not glad this is happening but it seems to be the right thing to do. Not unhappy that we are not part of Move. If the goal IS acquisition it will happen at some point. We all support you! Best of luck - it's not a fun process, especailly with a big company with lots of bucks (and we know where those come from, don't we!?).

Jeff

Thank you SO much for sharing this with us, and providing the links to the actual documents so we can judge for ourselves.

I'm not unhappy (for me) that Move's move didn't make it - hope they lose the suit and get punitive damages as well.

When/if ActiveRain is sold, merged, etc - hope that it will be with honorable, good guys who continue the integrity and care for members that Active Rain has shown!

I read both positions, the entire things. I'm not an attorney, but good grief, this should really be a slam dunk case for AR.

Move.com is the Microsoft.com of this industry, not only in terms of size, influence, and resources, but also in terms of business tactics.

I never thought that much about the people who run Move. Who couldn't look good running Realtor.com, tough gig if you can get it.

Good luck. Sounds like they really deserve a good whooping.

Soon after we joined this spring, we heard a rumor and had a feeling it was them that was the exit strategy. Very much agree with Laurie above. I spend too much money each month for their nonproductive enhancements.

So this is a tale of two cities... and two villages. One city is we're pissed because you've been cheated, the other city is we're happy that you were because it would have ruined this thing for them to be in charge. It would'a been like selling out to Exxon. (Or asking our Supreme Court to rule on a fair election.)

One village is we're not happy that you're not funded, which you deserve, and the other village is we're even more unhappy than that because Caleb would more likely have still been here if you had been funded... one suspects.

Glad you got Howard Weitzman in the mix. This will get settled, and we hope you get ample consideration... and remain on the board, at the helm and no less than 51% in charge.

We wish you Godspeed.

I have read BOTH sides in the pending litigation (the complaint AND the response)......

They (MOVE Inc.) are going to be giving Active Rain a WHOLE BUNCH of money it seems.....

It looks like you will not need letters of credit for a while guys!!

You will have LIQUID assets eventually!!

(Remember -- I am NOT a lawyer...I looked at everything and just smelled a skunk...I am sure ANY jury will agree with me.... MOVE Inc. is in VERY HOT water.)

\O/

Bolen put it so well (as usual). So glad you didn't sell to The Man. Why sell to The Man, when you can be The Man. Do us all a favor and sell out to some company with a record of innovation instead of the status foe.

Or clean up in court and don't sell at all. Heck...advertise more (did I just say that?!?)

I am 100% behind Active Rain. I red the whole thing. Their defense sounds iffy and flimsy at best.

If you can't comment, how are you going to get more Active Rain points?????

I love with Active Rain does and it appreciate that is a very hot commodity. On the other hand, I am disappointed that Active Rain would sell to Move. That doesn't mean I am not supporting Active Rain, I simply hope that when the time comes, the entity that acquires Active Rain will have the same "values".

Thank you for honestly bringing this to us.

Amazingly Move claims there is no value in what it acquired from AR, yet they were prepared to pay over 30 million for it, until they decided it was easier to steal it.

I read the document and gotta say, hope you guys win this. I found Move's conduct absolutely disgusting!

A funny point of statistical information: The request of relief is $33 million and there are 50,000 registered members. It would seem that Move really wanted the member roster. That means I'm worth about $660 to Move. I love you guys but they should have just called me for my information; I would have given it up for 100 bucks.

I know you can't comment BUT...I have an observation:

Move's only defense is that your confidential information is worthless. If it was worthless, then why were they so interested in the member roster?

On the other hand, $600 per member sure seems like a lot to pay considering only 10% of us are really active I can't imagine why they would pay $6000 per active member. If they could earn, say $300 per member annually, that's 20 times annual revenues which seems rich.

But...Move appears to have misrepresented themselves. Rolling out the "free blogging service", when they did, certainly seems like they wanted to glean as much information they could from AR in order to fine tune their offering.

I think that Move gets hammered in a jury trial but for a lesser amount. I'm guessing $8 million.

Thanks for posting the documents. Pretty interesting stuff.

I have read both the complaint and the response and it gets under my skin a little bit.

The summary of my thoughts- An organization I pay big bucks to belong to and does very little for me is trying to steal from the the network I belong to, pay nothing for and they do a ton for me!

I do have to admit I was a little surprised that AR had shared our member information with MOVE. I've never read AR's privacy policy about sharing our information but that was a bit of a surprise. At least now I know why they were immediately sending me emailed wanting me to start a Realtor.com blog- they knew who the bloggers were. I did get a blog and posted a profile and one blog entry but that was it. Now I have to go figure out how to delete it.

For those commenting on the Realtor.com prices should also mention the harassment. I get calls from them all the time wanting to sell me the enhanced listings. I'm a member- shouldn't I get that for free? Just a huge money suck.

I'd be willing to be they are monitoring these comments with interest. While we have their attention be sure to tell them what you think. AR rules and I look forward to what AR has in store. They are way ahead of the othe folks.

Can't easily wade through the legal papers. I understand that you can't comment but would have appreciated a Cliff Notes Version.

In hind sight I can see some of this stuff. Your lack of attention to revenue makes more sense to me now.

I didn't sign up for one of their blogs because I get no SEO from my listings. I don't do their web site either because I never see any of their agent web sites with SEO. So I didn't think they'd do well with the blogs either.

Agree with other's comments, they charge too much for too little results. It does bother me somewhat that AR was willing to sell us out to them.

I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN DUPED.

I have not gotten in to the blogging that much yet but to use all of the AR blogger's efforts for such personal gain is a little unsettling to me. Maybe I was naive. I did not see 'sell-out' in your Weltanschuuang.

I agree with John MacArthur's comments:

>>> I appreciate your sharing the information. I will readily admit I am confused. The owners of AR (the good guys) were in the process of selling AR to Move (the bad guys). All the current members of AR were a commodity as well as the software used by AR. Move (the bad guys) waited until they received information about the software and the members (the commodity) and back out of the deal. So the owners of AR (the good guys) were in the process of selling the whole ball of wax to Move (the bad guys). If they had not backed out, the software and members (the commodity) would now be owned by Move (the bad guys).

Move (the bad guys) pulled the plug and the owners of AR (the good guys) are suing them for failing to complete the deal.

Maybe I just don't get it, but I do enjoy the community. <<<

09/27/2007

by John MacArthur

I'm with Brian. I read both AR's complaint and Move's response. Why would you pay millions of dollars for useless information? And why would you keep delaying the closing to keep asking for more "information" so that your "shareholders would feel better about the deal", if you didn't see that information as having value? Move better come up with a better defense than that.

Dwight,

Did you think the boys were communists? Why wouldn't they be entitled to money for their work? I have some 300 posts and 5000 comments on Active Rain; it has served me well. It has stabilized my business ina time where loan originations have completely dried up.

If the boys used me, I hope they do it again.

I must admit that my web designer which has a forum - told me that they had considered starting a site such as AR - but realized there was no way to compete - I am mad as hell - where are the ethics to those people - ok... now to read their response

SEP

2007

Brian,

Good observations. I just curious, doesn't MOVE have all of the names and contact info for all the realtors? They do have a pretty locked up contract with NAR. It seems silly that they don't have or can't get this contact info.

I'm not as optimistic as you on the settlement amount... I'm at $1-2M.

We wish the "boys" all the best in their pursuit of legal channels to be compensated. Let us hope that all these conversations and e-mails and whatever happened between all parties are in black and white and it is not a "he said" situation. If it's not in writing it does not exist is what seems to be pretty much the rule.

On the other hand - and note -- we do not like our personal information being sold and bandied about.... but we all did have a choice to put it here. And as for them making money, they are entitled to make a buck, (even a big one if they can get it). A/R was not just some nice hobby the boys had without a profit motive, can't image that anyone ever thought that.

Thanks for bringing this forward to all of us. I don't care much for the whole of Realtor.com and their way of doing business. I hope you guys kick butt.

I knew that talks were happening, but I didn't realize they had gone this far. It was bound to happen, finding someone who recognized the value of what you had created. I can't say that I blame you for wanting to cash out on all of your hard work and createive genius. To bad the folks who run Realtor.com aren't required to follow the same Code of Ethics that we are!

Wow -- I was not even aware that Active Rain had intentions of selling to Move.com.

Knocked the socks off of me...can't imagine why something as great as AR would want to be part of yet another entity that rips off Realtors. Just don't get it. Need some time to think about this one.

You guys suck. sure everyone wants to sell out but to Move? Hope you guys loose. Next time hire some real people to help you with M&A. Who the hell advised you?

From Inman News

"ActiveRain provided "highly sensitive material about its members and its network or platform in electronic format, in anticipation of the supposed impending closing" on May 3, the lawsuit alleges, and "within hours of its receipt of this especially sensitive information in unrestricted digital electronic format, Move told ActiveRain that it had 'cancelled' the deal.""

Let's see now; as far as I know Active Rain doesn't have any of my bank account numbers, my social security number, my home alarm code, what brand of scotch I prefer, or even if I prefer boxers or briefs.

Lawsuit aside, I'm wondering exactly what sort of "highly sensitive material about its member" AR has that it provided to Move???

Brian,

You said Move really wanted the member roster. OK, but they already have all of our information, always have had it. The only thing they didn't have was the ability to sort the AR members out of their database and identify which of their members were AR members.

Just a thought.

Day late but not a dollar short!

Just came upon this blog and had to make a short comment.

Have received several calls very recently from someone trying to sign me up for enhanced listings on realtor.com website. Never have subscribed to that program and have no intention of doing so; costs will not equal value to me. Too many friends have discontinued that service because they found no benefit.

Everyone is trying to get into our r(eal estate practitioners) pockets. Everyone, that is, except Active Rain. More bang for the buck with no bucks invested.

Thank you for sticking to your guns fellows. Ya done good!

We can help fix this, we just refuse to do anything with Move.com we refuse to create free blogs on realtor.com and simply refuse to use their technology.

Gee.. I thought headquarters of Active Rain did this for fun, kinda like Robin Hood. I know a collection of brokers, their blogs and creativity has value all established..just never knew it had that kinda of curb value. Doing a super job but $30 million plus? Maybe it is time to start some other social networks of professionals in say the funeral industry, rehab circles or the slug of other special interest groups out there! Isn't the internet great..to create something so quickly fueled by a concept and a group of over achieving realtor/banker/insurance/related field types! Keep us posted...very interesting reading and neat to see the documents heading thru the courts...not just a paraphrase....the actual exhibits make it intriguing! Take your vitamins, get your sleep and brace for a long battle.

I read the news yesterday but waited to see what came up on AR. It's an interesting, real life discussion. Instead of sitting in the stands watching we are part of the game. Selfishly, I'm hoping that AR will remain independent because I think the sense of community will change/weaken if owned by a giant like Move. But, I certainly understand that this is a business which can be bought and sold. Like everyone, I will watch and wait, and blog. I feel like I need my AR friends more than ever as a support group. We are all in this together!

I like Jim Lee's Comment, I have no info thatgood have been taken, it's all so Frivilous!!!

Tom Weiss

While I am not a fan of Move Inc. or R.com it does not matter to me that ActiveRain was going to / wanted to sell AR to them. I may have changed my participation on ActiveRain depending on how the platform changed whomever the new owner was (or will be.)

Interesting discussions about the law suit on outside blogs.

I just finished reading the Inman. I was unaware of this. I hope all the AR members are with you guys all the way. Good Luck

Just a couple of quick thoughts ...

> the blogging leaders are here and will stay here.

No, Carson. They're not. Or if they are, they're largely duplicating their content. Look at the old-timers (those here for a year or so) and you'll see most of them have their own blogs where they do the bulk of their writing. Once you get past the need for points, you discover you can do it on your own - even the SEO side.

Proof? Google Phoenix Real Estate and tell me where you see Jay Thompson show up.

> We can help fix this, we just refuse to do anything with Move.com we refuse to create free blogs on realtor.com and simply refuse to use their technology.

What is there to fix? You also can start your own blog on your own server and own your own content instead of just renting space and watching it sold to the highest bidder.

> can't imagine why something as great as AR would want to be part of yet another entity that rips off Realtors.

Why? There allegedly were $30 million reasons why. It's not about the agents. <a href="http://www.daltonsazhomes.com/blog/09282007/someday-my-princess-will-come/">It's about the money.</a>

> My initial thought was exactly that. "Who runs this place? I'm being traded!" But then I thought about the reality of the situation. The principles of AR won't be at my birthday party anytime soon. We won't be out for beers and a ball game in the near future. They are not my friend. They have a great product and its market worthy.

Michael, you definitely get it.

> I just walked in, opened up Inman and FREAKED OUT !!!

Why are you freaking out? What's the worst that would happen? That you'd have to venture on your own to start a blog on one of the many, many available platforms? That you'd lose your points?

This should be a wake up call ... the content you have here isn't yours. The photos on Localism aren't yours. YOU have built up AR. And the designers, using your content, nearly walked away with eight figures off the sweat off your backs.

I don't begrudge them ... it's not a bad deal if you can pull it off. I just don't get the blind "come hell or high water we're here for you" support.

Thanks for posting these pdf's. I got to the Inman article to late to read it (I know... I should re-up my sub.).

IF ACTIVE RAIN IS FOR SALE, LET'S BUY IT!

http://activerain.com/blogsview/219056/IF-ACTIVE-RAIN-IS

Hi All,

I need to start by stating that I'm not yet a member of AR, which is why I'm not signed in, but I've visited numerous times over the past couple of months, and I believe you truly have something special going here (I'll be joining soon - I'm putting together a killer new farming tool, and it's almost ready to go).

Somebody may want to check with AR management just to make sure what I'm suggesting here won't hurt their case (I don't think it will), but here goes:

It seems to me that it's possible that you, as individual members of AR, may have evidence, which when looked at collectively, could prove to be of immense value to AR in winning it's case - if it suggests or proves that you, as AR members, were approached by "The Bad Guys" about setting up a blog over there in a manner that was in any way different from how they approached the NAR member-base as a whole.

Presumably, they have access to contact info for all NAR members, so the question becomes, is their any evidence that they "cherry-picked" from AR's list in any way? For example, it's one thing if all the Realtors at mythical office, "C-21xyz" received virtually identical offers or invitations (in terms of timing of the offer, method of the conveying the offer, terms/inducements offered, etc.) to set up blogs. However, it's another thing entirely if it can be shown that they appear to have used AR's list to contact AR members differently (i.e., exclusively, or sooner, more often or more tenaciously, with special offers or inducements, etc.) than non AR member Realtors.

If each of you were to do a little detective work with other Realtors in your offices and towns - both AR members and non-members - to learn more about if/when/how they received offers to set up blogs, and then share your findings with each other, it could prove very telling, and the info might be very helpful to AR as this case moves forward.

Jeff in San Diego

Jeff, that's interesting as I received my email from realtor.com back on June 27th when I registerd. It was probably a few days before that when I actually tried to sign up.

SEP

2007

Thanks Jeff, I've been picking up pieces here and there but didn't have a full picture. Looks like WE are a great commodity. Right will prevail.

Hey, I have read a few law suites, I was persoanlly served with one yesterday, every business man has to deal with them sooner or later, I mean we are either going to have to sue or be sued, and I do have to say that I enjoyed the read, the law suite was almost like, I mean, a really good blog.....

I receive so much crap in my email from everybody including Realtor.com that I wouldn't know the difference. The one thing they all have in common is that they all get deleted - unread. I wouldn't have the slightest idea if they tried to contact me. I have it set up so that most of them go directly into the delete folder but it doesn't quell the onslaught.

can i be your personal tour guides when you travel through surfing countries.
will you adopt me? :)

no one contacted me.. the email is specific to AR.

good luck guys.. you'll be blinging soon ;)

I'm sorry to hear that AR was up for sale. When every large companies purchase smaller companies, the quality and appeal is not the same. I didn't really understand that our blogs and comments were up for sale.

I read the material facts and decided that I wanted to be on this jury.

I suggest that all 50,000+ members of AR join the "free" blog at Move, then proceed to slam them on their own site.

Update:

Ok... I went to Move but, found nothing about a blog.

But then I went to R dot com... and found a blog sign up...

You can't do it Victor... It's just for us members. I signed up for one and they don't want me. I feel so... unwanted...

I know... I tried.... but, like you, I feel ........rejection....

but I'm a member... of NAR and I've been blogging since 2005... and I was one of the Top 10, Right handed, Red headed women in real estate blogging in 2006 and they still don't want me?

Poof.

Good move :)

TLW...ROAR!

The AR Platform and Community is amazing. It is very difficult for me to fathom how the AR founders could monetize their effort, via a deal with a firm like Move, and not end up poisoning the Community.

John

PS - I'm a fan of a great book in the Economics department called "Small is Beautiful." The book correctly describes how the backbone of US Business has been the Small Business segment. Most of the Innovation, Creativity, wealth and employment has come from this segment.

Curious as to why the legal links have been pulled.

Athol,

It was a programming related error and was not intentional. We are working to get them back up. Sorry.

Okay...

Now that all the hoopla has died down...I have something further to say...Like it...Don't like it. I don't care :)

You're not truly successful until someone tries to sue you or you are forced to sue someone else :)

Yup. That's it. That's all. Over and Out :)

TLW...ROAR!

Anthol, we deployed a new set of code for ActiveRain this morning, that overwrote the documents that had been put online the other day. Just copied them back up there.

Move.com, what a bunch of bad actors. I wonder what influence NAR could bring to bear, if we all started putting the pressure on. It's been a very long time since I pulled the plug on an enhanced R.com website as I didn't like the way they conducted their business, but didn't NAR HEAVILY support with our dues dollars the formation of Realtor.com? Are we still supporting these people?

I'm not pleased that the REALTOR name could get once again dragged into the mud over the bad actions of the Move.com people. Seems to me a bunch were tried for Enron type cooking of the books some years ago.

We probably all need to demand that NAR takes some action to help them clean up their acts.

Without our listings, they have nothing. Hmmmm there's another thought.

I agree with with Eric. How many consumers know the difference between the NAR and REALTOR.com? This has the potential to hurt all our reputations. Much of the the public already holds us in the same esteem as a stereotypical used car salesman.

This truly diminishies our "code of ethics" mantra in my opinion.

SEP

2007

There is a similar lawsuit going on in Hawaii between communter airlines, where one company secured confidential information from Hawaiian Airlines under the premise of a purchase. They then opened their own local communter airline.

I wish you the best on this litigation.

I do not know how many Realtors know the difference between NAR & Realtor.com...

Nathan, NAR owns the domain name www.Realtor.com, Move.com operates it for us under a licensing agreement.

NAR has enormous influence and control over what they do with it.

A clear case of espionage on Move.com`s part.

this will never make it to a jury,they`ll settle and settle soon.

Yes AR and its membership is a commodity and Yes it would be disappointing if they sold out to Move or any one else who did not have the same values and principles of AR but the bottom line is we paid nothing for AR and it is theirs to do with as they see fit. I must admit I did like the post that suggested we share in the spoils but how can you share in the spoils if you don't share in the expenses.

Hope it works out in AR's and therefore our favour

I find this whole thing very disturbing. I've devoted two hours a day, seven days a week to this community. To have my work product, and the work of all AR's other contributors suddenly at risk, is unacceptable. I didn't contribute all my articles to localism.com to have Move end up owning them.

It's clear from Move's prior behavior that if they owned the platform, our whole community culture would be changed for the worse. I'm a big AR fan, but I must say that giving away all their sensitive information without a firm contract being signed in advance was highly naive. I always knew that AR's owners would have to find a way to make a profit - but from the people who ruined Realtor.com? I feel betrayed.

Has anyone asked Carnac how this will turn out?????? Speaking of Carnac...did I miss the part that said this would happen???

Very interesting story. In my estimation, the AR network/platform would be worth every penny of the $33M to Move, Inc., and more. The AR network and related content (especially localism, market reports, etc.) could potentially lead Realtor.com back from the brink of irrelevance with real estate consumers, while at the same time leveraging the power of the AR network to build relationships with its Realtor customers.

Why would Move, Inc. pull out of the deal? Were the Rain Gods robbed blind once Move, Inc. had the info they wanted? It doesn't make sense to me that all they wanted was the member list. Heck, can't any visitor to the site get that?

My WAG is that Dustin saw the value of the AR community and pitched this deal to his bosses at Move, Inc. Because those idiot just don't get it, they bailed on the deal. What a bunch of morons, but not a surprise at all, considering the ineptitude of the management at Move, Inc. (Homestore, etc.)

Rain Gods, don't sell yourselves short. Once this market turns around, you may be able to get $60M for the AR network. But in the meantime, get yourself a pack of pit bull lawyers and go for the jugular. I wouldn't let them buy you out for peanuts, though.

OCT

2007

I just realized that it is 9/30/07, the end of the month. This may be the first month that the Rain Gods themselves provided Carnac with the best fodder EVER! Oh my Gawd, Carnac is going to have a field day on this one.

Stefan wrote: "My WAG is that Dustin saw the value of the AR community and pitched this deal to his bosses at Move, Inc. Because those idiot just don't get it, they bailed on the deal. What a bunch of morons, but not a surprise at all, considering the ineptitude of the management at Move, Inc. (Homestore, etc.)"

huh? I never thought of Dustin having any respect for ActiveRain.... or seeing any value in it... really

There are a lot of aspects to this case that intrigue me, and I really do hope that the case does come before a jury. Only then will light be shed publicly on the shadows of the business practices of the "industry leaders."

I hope that AR sticks to their guns and takes their complaint before a jury, without giving in to the temptations of a big settlement.

Consumers deserve to see what goes on behind the scenes at companies like Move.com. If I were them, I would be embarrassed by the tone of their defense. I can't help but read it and be reminded of the parable of the Scorpion and the Otter. They (Move.com) are basicly saying in their defense that "ActiveRain should have known better than to give us what we asked for."

OCT

2007

$33 million for fifty thousand users? I'll eat my hat if AR wins this suit.

Another reason to not like the big R dot com. Boy, what I wouldn't do to be on this jury! One thing I dont' understand, is why not have hard money down, non refundable, before handing over any confidential information? Just the way I look at it, anyway.

Something else I learned that I never took the time to know -- Top Producer Systems is also owned by Move dot com. No wonder I hate my Top Producer! Maybe it's really time for me to find something else and to stop handing over my hard earned money to them.

OCT

2007

As a new member I just viewed and searched, not really willing to join, post or blog, but this site made it so easy and comfortable to see and feel others joy & pains, and willingness to ask and give advice without been demeaning or making someone feel dumb for making mistakes or even asking for help.

Good Luck ... I like AR and hope to see it grow and prosper and continue to be the best!

OCT

2007

I support this community..... fill me in on up coming events in reference to this....

OCT

2007

Hiw will this affect the ongoing and progressive nature of activerain.com?

OCT

2007

Having practiced M&A law for many years at a high powered NYC law firm, I would ahve argued against agreeing to certain terms of this discussion with Move. I assume you guys had adequate and experienced legal advice at the time. That said, increasing the marketability of the firm would increase the cost of purchasing it from you... disclosing Confidential Information without a cash assurance from Move was a mistake, assuming that happened. You might even have wanted to demand a cash payment for these things alone, to protect yourself.

In any event, I wish you luck, as this community is a fine one, and I greatly enjoy participating.

I read both complaint and response and fully support AR. It seems obvious that Move intentionally planned to steal the trade secrets of ActiveRain, and build or upgrade their own blogging component. When, exactly they made that decision will be hard to prove, but I think the courts will agree that Move owes AR restitution of some kind.

OCT

2007

I heard the deal valued each member at something like 300 bucks or more. Crazy stuff. Too bad Move pulled out.

http://www.gregorygarver.com/

http://www.motelbrokersusa.com/

http://www.san-francisco-apartment.net/

http://www.san-francisco-ca-real-estate.us/

http://www.san-francisco-mls.net/

http://blog.gregorygarver.com/

http://www.gregorygarver.com/wordpress/?feed=rss2

NOV

2007

Thanks for sharing the information. I had heard about it and did not know what was really going on.

NOV

2007

Did they try to buy you out?

Jenna Ryan
The Marketing Shop.com

JAN

2008

Sorry to be so late to this party. But perhaps I was early in seeing this or something similar coming.

I wrote a blog in April 2007:

What kind of business model is this?

I was discussing in a veiled manner Active Rain's future plans. I concluded: "When you have enough critical mass and national acclaim you make your boldest move yet... But for now you keep everybody guessing."

I received 5 comments, one was just "????" , another said: "Gerhard, What on earth have you been smokin', Man?" Do you GET it, now?

FEB

2008

On 9/27/07 it was reported that a lawsuit was brought by ActiveRain against Move, Inc.

Does anyone know the disposition of this case?

FEB

2008

This response is a bit late but not sure what to do. My bank account is due at Realtor.com and I don't want to pay it. When are they going to have reasonable fees? The are so out of line in their fees? I feel like I have to pay them because this is where the public goes but I think they are nothing more than "used car salesmen" or the greedy oil companies. If enough Realtors didn't renew would they lower their costs? HELP!

APR

2008

Very intersting information. Does anyone have an update on this issue?

MAY

2008

This is interesting and I am wondering where this issue stands at this point in time as well. Sharon, realtor.com in my area is searched by 50%+ buyers. Yes, their fees are high, but I'm not sure there is much we can do.

JUN

2008

I stopped using realtor.com's featured home ads due to all their mistakes and excuses.

SEP

2008

Did this case get dismissed or was there a settlement of any kind?

SEP

2008

What is the current status of the case?

Jay

SEP

2008

What's the current status. That AR will make more money off the lawsuit than if they had sold your information. But in the mean time they gave your information away already and Realtor.com is a callin' apparently.

DEC

Interesting.

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