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Let's Face it Folks, It is time to PAY Activerain

I have been talking about how this thing we know as ActiveRain will be monetized since the day I landed here in August of 2006. Given the whole "situation" with Move.com, it looks like everyone is thinking about it now. AR's owners (am I the only one who wonders WHO they all are???) deserve to make some money for what they are doing here. No matter who they chose to buy them out, my guess is that many of us will not be pleased. That is just logical.

So it is time for those of you who want this network to stay independent, and free of ownership from an entity you don't endorse to figure out how AR can make money for its owners.

Bring forth your great ideas. Personally, I think AR is ready for some kind of paid membership, but I know many of you disagree.

Posted by Maureen Francis & Dmitry Koublitsky, SKBK Sotheby's - Metro Detroit on 09/28/2007 03:43 PM

Comments (139)

activerain, featured post

Post is included in group: The Activerain Silver Star Hall of Fame

139 Comments on Let's Face it Folks, It is time to PAY Activerain

SEP

2007

Free is great. let's keep it that way. If they want to get into the advertising side of things and do a pay per click for their advertisers, then that's a way to generate $. Myspace is free, and they don't need membership. Let's keep Free social networking the way it IS!

I'll pay for anything that pays for itself, but often advertising pays for the cost of running a profitable site, like so many other highly successful sites, so why pay a membership fee?

I vote we pay. Of course, I also think our state association dues should go up about 1000% to run off a lot of the non-serious ones. These guys have busted their tails and deserve to turn a profit.

We have the option of paying buying advertising on the site. This should pay for itself and provide income for AR.

Maybe we could pay for a different level of service, access to different fonts, "stationery", something like that.

I'd pay, just don't make it so high that new agents are nickled and dimed to death once again.

If you want it paid by advertising then you have to let them open up the advertising, especially on localism, to whoever is willing to pay. I don't think that I want ads for my competitors next to my content. I also can't imagine that he ad revenue is really big enough to even pay for the hosting costs at this point.

Sarah, I actually think the new agents should have something like a 90 day free period to get hooked. If they still like it they will pay. I also think that these points should be useful for something like reducing one's monthly charge. Maybe that would work.

They wouldn't be offering this to us for free if they weren't making money somehow. They make plenty of money off the advertisers. If they start charging us, someone else will come up with a similar website that free. The fact that it is a free site makes it more attractive to the advertisers because they know that it will bring more people to their ads. They aren't working for free.

That works for me, Maureen! Shall we write it up and submit it to the proper authorities? :o)

Dmitry, you should read your blog sometime. It's pretty good, you know.

Mary and Michelle, the advertising has been around for maybe 2 months. The site has been up since June of 2006. There is no way that the ad revenues have been paying the bills. Most likely, investors and loans have been doing that, but I really don't know. There are very few ads on here right now.

Sarah, I liked your levels of membership idea too. Dmitry is an occaissional driveby blogger. He did try for a while though.

Hey, you know me. I'm willing to pay. If the 5,000 of us active folks each paid $100, that would bring in $500,000.

However, paid advertising from outside sources could probably bring in more.

We seemed to not like Move. I have a feeling we wont like some of the advertisers either.

I think the AR guys need to put their business minds and figure out a way to turn a profit. Charging membership may kill this thing in its current form but may bring a certain authority and credibility to it and in the long run bring more value.

Advertising is certainly a way to go. There are thousands of Realtors on this space - I'm sure lots of vendors would like to advertise to this group.

How about levels of membership? Free for basic networking and commenting, but a platinum membership for full board blogging services (and no ad views)? Maybe they can charge for video and interactive features on the blog.

Maybe charge a different higher rate for lenders, appraisers, home inspectors etc.

AR needs to also figure out a way to integrate with a consumer platform so the agents have a market to write for. This will justify paying a fee for the platinum membership.

These are just my thought.

I dont mind paying a few bucks per month. Anthing more than that would steer me away from the AR community. Maybe AR can sign more advertisers/sponsors?!?!

I am not sure where I stand on the fee vs ad revenue. Ad revenue would, in my opinion, create a greater potential income stream than just a memebrship fee.

I really don't know how I feel. I don't like the idea of our data being sold...I signed up for AR not Move.com . All the more reason why we should be working our outside blogs. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

I've been preaching about this for almost a month. I love the idea of paying for this service, whether it's a flat fee or a fee for "added" services or an advertising fee. Or a combo of all 3. I'm even more "for" it now that the news is out about move.com

If move.com buys this site, I'll set up my blog on my own somewhere and simply visit here to read the blogs of people that I've become close to.

Your own blogs (outside of AR) are really the only thing you can control. Mine is probably the best thing we have done for our business (miOaklandCounty.com)

Now that I've made the rounds and read the court paperwork-all I can say is 'wow'-no wonder they have worked for free for so long, this site is pretty darn valuable to pull $30mm. Thank heavens the deal didn't go through.

Maureen, I said it months ago, I would pay to play. I like the 90 days trial for newbies. Since e-pro starting having their students sign up to learn blogging platforms, we had ( in my opinion ) many sign up that really never have written a darn thing.

They definately need more money to live on, I'm not happy they were negotiating with move at all. But, they birthed it and it is there baby.

I think developing a outside blog is probably what many people will do. People vote with their feet and if the platform changed with new owners, if people didn't it like they would go away.

I don't think I would feel any different if I had logged on and seen it announced that we were now move. I would have been just as surprised. I don't like the way the principals at move handled it at all. It was unethical like they are known to be.

I have long believed in blogging local content on one's own domain. But I will give AR a big thumbs up for creating a community that I have not found elsewhere. That is my approach to how I use ar.

I for one would be willing to pay an annual membership fee. Even if only $20 per year, at least is would give the Creators some well-deserved revenue, and perhaps weed out those who clutter the platform with meaningless content...

Great idea. nice post.

I assist in running a gaming website on the side. It is www.wydgaming.com. Over the course of the last 3 years, we have successfully provided nearly 10 different gaming servers over 3 varieties of games, all for free. The way we stay afloat is through very, very limited advertising, and more importantly, donations. Instead of a paid membership, a donation option would be great. It would help them run AR and deal with issues like Move. Some of the people here are beginners, while have fallen on hard times in the current market, and others have and still are doing very well for themselves. I feel each and every person should bring it upon themselves to pay up when they feel like they need to. I definitely feel like I owe something to AR when I make money based on the resources available here; and frankly that is the best way to give back, when it comes from the Heart.

I suspect the folks at ActiveRain are astute enough to run their business. I wouldn't know if they are or are not making a profit, no more than they know if I am. I don't understand this blog. Are you suggesting we should tell them how to run their business? Personally, I have no clue at to their costs or revenue income. I can't help but believe they know what they are doing.

I would pay but Rich...$20/year? - Boy that seems low to me. I also think these guys need to get paid and would prefer to put up money than have a competitor's ads next to the local content I put up here. Just my thoughts - Great question Maureen - looking forward to seeing what good ideas come up...

I agree with Rich on a small fee but the ad revenue for the owners is OK. You would put a halt to the growth if you charged a fee. I would rather see it free so it could continue to grow. Many of us will end up with our own blogs or stop blogging on a regular basis. The interaction is a big factor to blog and meet your peers from over the coountry.

MF.

I too must believe the people running a/r know what they are doing.

What kind of growth do we want on this network? Content has degraded significantly because we have so many members who don't know what constitutes quality articles. If we continue to grow at our current rate, things will only dillute further.....I think paid subscription might help improve the overall quality of the network.

You don't have to be making a profit for a business to be worth money. Look at the billions of dollars spent on dot com stocks, most of whom have never made any money. There's value in systems, in programming, in getting everything ready to make money

Maureen & Dmitry - as of this writing there are 50,119 members & there are 1,096 Online Now. Wow! terrific numbers. I have been a member for 6 months and the numbers have nearly doubled since when I joined. I see your point and I see the other side. What brings many here is the fact that it is FREE - what keeps most of us coming back is the information exchange and the fun. 90 days may be enough time to get hooked but after 6 months I am certainly addicted (even if I took a month off) I have thought from the beginning that somewhere along the lines there would be some type of fee. None yet... I'll wait and see.

We've been beating this drum for a while. To no avail yet. Needs to be Free for a while, to get folks involved, and once one figures out what we did, that this has value, then we need to pay a regular fee, monthly, annually with a discount or whatever.

If we pay, then someone else will get dollar signs in their eyes, figure out how to do it for free and sell advertising. Web 2.0 is all about free. It doesn't matter if you're willing to pay...a pay site just isn't going to attract the time investment from users, especially in the 30 and under crowd.

NO CHARGE!!! :)

We have some great (IMHO) business models that we have put together and they don't involve charging for participation. Frankly, I am absolutely honored that so many of you would be willing to support this network (our overhead) through your willingness to pay a subscription fee, but bottom line is that it won't happen.

For various reasons, today is a pretty busy day for me, but I will do my best to put up a blog post that talks about some of our planned revenue models.

MySpace = Free

Facebook = Free

ActiveRain = Should remain free.

All they need to do is copy the business model that so many social networking sites have pioneered. Don't reinvent the wheel.

Zolve.com will be trying to go the paid membership route, and I (like everyone else should do) am going to take my free trial and see how it goes. If its GREAT, I'll switch... bye bye AR. If it's not great, I'm still here.

Even if AR just went the AdSense route (ever searched "real estate marketing" on Google? Know what the top spots pay per click?) they could bring in some good revenues. With the proper ad sales system in place they could do much better. Couple years, sell it for 5-10x revenues (seems to be the going rate these days). Done deal.

At least we don't need to worry about Move, Inc. taking the reigns anytime soon.

Rich,

What an interesting observation. Wow. However interesting your idea is, I don't think that your conclusion is accurate. I don't believe that content has "degraded significantly because we have so many members". The number of members does not create a direct inverse equation to quality content.

The concept that we should measure ActiveRain success with additional metrics besides "user growth" makes a lot of sense.

I think we should invest some real time in figuring out ways to make sure new members are trained to properly create valuable content.

Lastly, I am not sold on the notion that paid subscriptions to slow down member growth will result in an increase in the quality of the content.

I posted a great idea last night, see the link. IF ACTIVE RAIN IS FOR SALE, WE SHOULD BUY IT.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/219056/IF-ACTIVE-RAIN-IS

Taken from Inman.com's "100 most influential real estate leaders 2007"

Matt Heaton, Jonathan Washburn; Co-founders ActiveRain Real Estate Network

When the ActiveRain Real Estate Network launched in 2006, no one could predict

how quickly it would catch on and amass an audience that now grows by

hundreds each day. Heaton and Washburn are responsible for the real estate social

networking site's success and are never afraid to jump right in and engage in discussions with ActiveRain bloggers.

Absoluletly are they influential to say the least!

I think this is a great site, and I have been grateful for all of ideas and information I have gotten here. That being said, if it were a pay site I don't think I ever would have joined in the first place. As a personal rule I don't pay for internet content, mainly because there is so much available for free - why pay? There must be other ways for those operating the site to make money.

Park and Read Zone.

TLW...ROAR!

Personally I think active rain is great, and I visit it several times a week, but if I had to pay I wouldn't be here.

if a model is working , let it run its natural course

What????

I should pay someone to develop their web site for them? Why would I do that when I could be developing 1) My own and getting paid for it, 2) developing someone else's and getting paid for it? And why should I do it when there are so many other people I could pay that would drive traffic to my site -- Google or Yahoo Pay-Per-Click, for instance -- without having to spend hours typing?

Are you suggesting I should actually spending money to have Boardman call me a mean agressive jerk and to fart around the water cooler?

Pass.

Tribe.net had similar issue couple years back and members revolted when they were toying with the paid membership structures. Many successful social network like myspace, friendster, facebook remains free and make money off advertisers. I believe AR has enough power at this point to garner enough sponsorship to sustain and paid the staff salaries.

If it comes to paying for AR, I would probably just publish elsewhere and read here if that were still available for free.

Since this is a collaborative effort, I don't think AR should profit, per se, from other people's brilliance - they are providing the forum and should reap profit from the side advertising deals . . .

It will be interesting to see how this plays out - whether or not greed becomes a factor . . .

With nearly 50,000 members , 10% active, you have about 5000 players ( bloggers). A first year could be free and year 2 charge a renewal fee of $25.00 per membership. This should actually provide the needed operating funds coupled with the potential of revenue generated from paid ads. When the membership builds back up, every effort should be made to have paid moderators that are not beholding to anyone other than company itself.

Rich,

"What kind of growth do we want on this network? Content has degraded significantly because we have so many members who don't know what constitutes quality articles. If we continue to grow at our current rate, things will only dillute further.....I think paid subscription might help improve the overall quality of the network."

You`ve allowed this to happen by "Featuring Friends" etc. Now you`re asking what transpired?

Content degraded because the moderators allowed it too happen.The job was to set guidelines not friendship lines. If you want to fix the problem, change the moderators and let a new group clean up this mess.

It`s that simple!

The value is in the content on this site put here by members. No members no content.

I've already paid. At 50.00 an hour with 132 posts, my Bill is still growing! LOL! Who should I send my bill to for sharing all my great posts!! hahahaha :-)

Scott - It really disappoints me to hear you say this. I thought you knew me better than that. Careless blanket comments like that really make me feel that all the volunteer time I spend on this network is totally worthless....

This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

You build someone else's equity and now you want to PAY for that privilege?

AR was built with the intention of selling it. Period. What is amazing is the sympathy people have for those who tried to sell your content to Move (who many dislike and distrust), only to be screwed by Move (what, you didnt think it could happen to you?), then sue Move (which will fight and/or settle with OUR money).

Flipping brilliant!!!!

I believe a paid subscription is a good idea even if Jonathan is reluctant to do it. I don't believe that because I want people weeded out. I want the network to stay viable. I also think it has to be more than $20/year. Maybe MySpace is free; great, there is no other platform like this one. It is, in my opinon, worth more than my time on MySpace. If I was not in real estate maybe MySpace would be fine but I still make different relationships here. It's not duplicated anywhere else, at least not yet lol

I believe the guys deeserve to make money. I however would have been unhappy with Move. There have to be other sources interested. I hope so anyway.

I'm not sure training is the way to go. Blogging is a personal thing. Some people suck at it but they do it anyway and that is their right. They can however observe those who blog well and maybe learn. I'm not sure training is the way to go.

Post is about membership so back on topic. Yes let's pay!

I beleive they deserve to make money too. Yet it is our content that makes it work. So how do we do this? Who should pay who?

Who is the judge of quality content? What if I write what isn't popular? Does that make it low quality?

Bob - you can always head over to Realtor.com's new blogging platform if you don't like things here....

Popularity isn't always the best gauge of what constitutes a quality article.

Oh contrar...I embrace and encourage dissenting voices. That is one of the most basic and primary impetus behind conversational blogging....what fun would it be if we all held the same view or opinions?

Isn't it amazing that this post got featured... hmmm....

Hey Maureen, I'm intrigued by this discussion. I'd "pay to play" because the return on my investment has been incredibly good! :) The issue of relevant, intreresting content & training about blogging is HUGE. This is probably one of the biggest threats to a network like this in the long run.

Hello! Let's think about this folks. Do you really think AR will remain the kind of force that it is now if they started charging. How many invities would join or accept invitations if they had to pay before they'd been around long enough to "get hooked" as it were.

Charging would be the death of this network. Mark my words if it happens.

TIP JAR!!

For those who feel compelled to contribute, A/R should let them...

Dear ActiveRain boss-guys, take a few minutes and set up a virtual tip jar through paypal ... click the button - done! That was easy...

Best,

Christina

I second the motion on the Tip Jar if we just must..

...otherwise you might as well be putting a gun to the head of this network if they started charging.

I also agree with the earlier posts that these guys know full well what they're doing and, oh by the way, are probably doing quite well. They're not doing it to lose money. Haven't you seen the advertising that exists on AR already? Why in the world would you want to mess up a good thing by suggesting that one more entity extract money from a Realtor? Yikes... come on now!!

Charging will kill this network. It won't work.

Pay or play right...

I think Jonathan may have something there...."train" the new members first so they can come in with good content. So how can we do that? I know it is not often someone will join with the intent of "hey, let's join so we can get creative with our writing". It is more for...hey...another freebie to advertise on. This is not the same as craigslist...it's "speaking" to the consumer through our words...not spitting stuff "at" them.

In any case. .... play nice, play right and we are all a happy network. Oh...and laugh!

I'm curious what the authors' motivation was for this thread. I suspect I am blissfully unaware of AR politics. And regarding the comment about consumers: I personally do not have an issue with stating my real feelings. I don't try to trick the consumer into thinking I am something I am not. I have opinions - strong ones, and I am not afraid to speak them.

I was totally out of the loop on this one. I had no idea about activerain and move.com and a lawsuit. It's obviously a valuable property. The AR guys are pretty damm smart. I have confidence that they will make money. This is a special network. Now that it is established and has credibility there are many potential revenue streams for them. Advertising model makes sense, syndication of the content. I think they can make money without a subscription model but I would pay if they went that route.

I confess that I've been expecting it for a while and I am surprised it has not happened yet. I guess paying for membership would reduce the amount of crap we see here. It would also limit the amount of people who would actually join. Quality versus Quantity

If you think this becomes pay to play, you are deceiving yourselves. This was built to be sold, which is why it was trolled in front of Move last November.

As long as this thing has this idiotic point system that governs who's on top, etc., the market will demand it remain free. And it should.

I think the paying for different levels is something to be said - I have always heard so many people want to be listed in more than one city or county - right there could be a sizeable sum perhaps. But Theresa has a point as well - its the good content along with the whole package that makes it work.

SEP

2007

I am curious how paying for a membership will improve the quality of the posts? I dare say that crappy writers can and will pony up a membership fee. Also, for those the like the idea of a tip jar, A/R already has one, it's called "Sponsor the Community" go place an ad and you have donated to the tip jar. They really don't need a paypal button. Finally, these guys had an offer from Move in a short time. I think they know what they are doing. Way more than any of us can speculate. I think A/R is more than capable of formulating a business plan to generate revenue.

The so-called free market will take care of this and will make the decision for everyone involved. The Active Rain format will be duplicated, possibly even improved upon. That's inevitable. If this site begins to charge ala carte for services and other sites do not (opting to sell advertising, for example), it remains to be seen where the majority of bloggers will go with their contributions.

A small fee would be in order.

Duane Hosek in the Black Hills fo South Dakota

I think the incredible minds that created this system can come up with a way to make a profit without having to make it too painful to those of us who are the cogs of their wheel. This is always a scary thing to go from one format to another. Do they deserve the right to make a profit?? Yes! But choosing how will be the thing that makes them great or late. I am cheering for great.

Why sell for 30 million? Hold out for Yahoo for 100 million....no wait Google just upped it to 200 million. Does "build it and they will come" ring any bells? The rules are always changing, and we are not the ones making the rules, so choices are a. stay b. leave or c. pay

Dick Beals

You certainly can't sustain a "free" business model forever. Now that the network has become so successful it only makes sense to payback to the AR gods. We certainly don't want to be bought out by the likes of move.com

Rich,

Can you honestly defend some of the selctions which become "Featured Posts"? We both know better now, don`t we!

How can you deny some of these "Featured Friends" posts are not worthy of the honor..

Just my humble opinion,but when you mention "Content" there seems to be a huge void in some of the selections which are allowed.

Ok ...the bottom line is as far as content. There are many different readers out there. Not everyone will like the content any of us put out. Each moderator has their own opinion on what is featured. I believe each moderator picks those posts based on what they are looking for as far as subject matter. All of the moderators are different people from different parts on the US from different cultures and have different interests. The might be a moderator who only features about RE because that is their main interest. Some might only consider happy joy joy posts..mortgage posts...staging etc. Some might pick from all varieties. I even know for a fact that some features are based on the fact that they have nothing good to feature that particular day and are looking for something...but have to feature something instead of leaving the dashboard at a stand still. The question is what the readers agenda is. It is really getting old with the complaints.How about letting the complainers moderate for a day and see if they have time to read through all the posts and make the decision.

If you do not like a post then move on to the next. As far as free or not free...I'm very grateful to have almost a year of free...yes absolutely free service. I'm still wondering where in the world they get the revenue not to have to charge us. Do I want to be charged...no ...but I agree if they do I'll pay it because they have to generate something and we should support that ...everyone is entitled to make money and why not put our money into the cause...maybe owning some stock would be a good idea if it can happen. Remember...this is a free blogging platform. I'm sure it is nice to be featured...but what does it get you? Money...doubtful. If I get a call from a post the consumer read and they call me then that is even more of a bonus.

Neal, well said. I am one that would pay because I find such value in AR. The business model clearly works as it is but the fact that AR was going to be sold tells me the creators weren't seeing enough revenue or they wouldn't have considered selling. I hope the owners of AR will consider options that we members might be able to be a part of. I have been a victim of buy-outs before. It stings a lot but what was always the worst part was the fact that the owners never considered the membership/agents as an option.

I am not quite sure how this got turned into an attack on the moderators, but I don't think it is appropriate. Yes, I have been the recipient of many gold stars, but I got most of them before there were volunteer moderators. Regardless, who cares? As Neal points out, gold stars do not pay one's mortgage. Now that Colleen has resigned, there is an open spot for a volunteer moderator. I suggest the whiners apply.

As for ActiveRain and paying, after reading the comments here, I actually do think that paying could kill the network. But so could selling it to an unsavory buyer like Move. As large as activerain is, the percentage of actual participants remains small. Unless our paid membership was high, it would not cover costs. At that point, we are all just best off on our own domains. My blog costs me less than 100 bucks a year to host.

Teresa (and others) are of course correct. We provide the content. Without out content, AR is literally worthless.

Bob Wilson, your points about selling to move are good.

Jonathan, I think your discussion about how AR is going to be monetized is important to the members. I know Matt just put up something that our content is our content. But those who have spent hours creating this content and posting it here have a vested interest in your monetization plans. I think you have heard that people are not all thrilled with Move as an owner. Of course, it is your business to sell. Knowing where this ship is headed matters.

Whine? Did I hear whine is being served?

Somehow I don't get the connection between moderators and monetization. Some folks just don't get the fact that others contributed their time and effort to build a system based on ORIGINAL content. The Moderators have given much for very little reward. I for one can't fathom why they have to continue to take such abuse.

With regard to the topic:

I believe everyone should be rewarded for their hard work. However if AR had a solid focused business plan from the beginning things would have turned out differently. The system should have rewarded points for what would have been a more valuable network in the end. Not a social network, but a consumer focused value added directory of real estate information.

Oh well, the Queen Mary left port and can't whip out a right turn any time soon.

Should we pay?

Unfortunately Realtors are notoriously cheap. Trying to charge for blogging now probably would reduce the membership. We would have to see what is in it for us with tangible evidence. We get dinged for $20 bucks here and $20 bucks there so frequently we are very skeptical of yet another revolutionary tool...

Funny how things work out. AR enabled many people to blog. I wonder how many people who actually started on AR have their own personal blogs and are very happy being in control of their own destiny?

I bet The Tomato is sopping up the Rain!

It's probably a good thing I'm not in charge. Beating up on moderators would be an automatic penalty.

As far as paying to play here, I'd be more than willing. I really do think it would eliminate a lot of the crap. Maybe we should pay the moderators for their efforts.

Paying the moderators is a great idea.

I think it should stay free if it can...but I will still support the business decisons that are made. Nothing is written in stone. Imagine if we woke up two days ago and found out there were new owners? Then how would we all feel?

The moderator topic came from a few others comments. I have been asked to...but won't for some of these reasons. I simply do not have the time so I'm grateful for those who do. Leave it be..I also agree with Kristal about charging now...it probably would reduce membership but the question is would it help ..hurt or have no effect what so ever.

Syndicated content is grossly overrated. Pay to play would simply leave you with a small mutual admiration society. The bottom line is that AR can be EASILY duplicated. It is also merely a trend, and like all trends, has a limited life span. People move on to new things, just like Facebook is the new MySpace.

What made (note past tense) this forum work was the organic nature of it . . . start imposing rules and restrictions and demanding payment and there will be related, natural consequences.

One huge reason people blog is freedom of expression - if you mess with that in any way, you will not have the fresh content you see here, period.

There are many free blogging forums and hosts. No one needs AR.

Liked Neal's post on whining, err ummm, I mean on gold stars and the mods.

I agree with paid membership. A three tiered system similar to P2A would be great but could make the point system unbalanced. I think paid banners are a good start.

People blog about and they are concerned about points and rankings here. Really who gives a rats you know what. It is a search engine friendly free site that I utilize to gain clients. Your early year posts really put it all into perspective for me when I was new to the system. Unfortunately the system has grown so much that your posts are lost. Maybe those posts need to be refreshed so the newer people can quit getting caught up in points and post to their blog for what really matters!

Thanks Renee. Maureen McCabe just commented on an early post of mine, a year old now, that caused a big stir. It was about points and the POINT of blogging.

Renee posted about Pay to Play on a blog entry of mine. 5 entries a week and then $1 each? up to 10 a week. Is that how it went Renee?

Would that slow down the garbage posts?

It would be some income for AR. Or would some not blog for that cost and ActiveRain suffer? The cost of a blog entry at 1/5 of a cup O' Latte at Starbucks?

Bottom line...if people are going to twist the whole post around and be negative (some of these comments have turned into an attack on the moderators and the network itself...those are not debatable) then I say....click out!

This was a simple post for feedback ...nothing more..nothing less.

I say...give us options and lets see what we can do.....together as a community. Goodness.

Geeze I was out on a listing appointment so didn't have any time until now to read the whine. It's so tiresome. The moderators are volunteers who give up free time when they are not working their paying jobs...and god knows in this industry free time is valuable. Maybe all whiners should be fined I think AR could make good money out of that scenario.

I like the idea of charging for more than 5 posts a week. Or whatever number is chosen. Maybe that is the money that could be used to pay the mods!

PS. KK I liked how you put ORIGINAL in bold letters.

Maureen McCabe: YUP!

Can anyone please remind me again why it is that I spend so much of my own personal time moderating on this platform???

Wow....KK and MF engaged in conversational blogging on AR! Seems like old times....

Rich said "Can anyone please remind me again why it is that I spend so much of my own personal time moderating on this platform??? "

because you are a great guy...

because you care about ActiveRain...?

I think all the Moderators are clearly a bunch of biased 'Friend' mongers who consistently 'feature' their own favored clique of buddies. They should all be fired immediately without severance and be forced to relinquish all of their points to anyone who hasn't been featured in the past 6 months!

09/29/2007

by Rich Jacobson ~ West Sound WA Real Estate

Rich, I thought we were friends. I have a lot of posts that don't have stars on them. It is not too late for you to go back and feature them ;->

Well, I don't know about the 1st one, but the 2nd certainly is true....thanks for the reminder!

('cupu-assu') either this is a espresso drink or a vulgar slang term....

I think one and two are true. And we are referring to mm's comment, btw.

Scott - I can only defend those articles which I feature. I cannot speak for the other moderators. I wrote a post a while back entitled "A Moderator's Heart." It pretty much reflects my own personal attitude towards how I select which posts to feature....

me too! me too!! I thought we were friends Rich - what's up with that?

"Can anyone please remind me again why it is that I spend so much of my own personal time moderating on this platform??? "

Good question. Why would anyone do this for free? The only ones who stand to make a profit are the owners of AR, and they bungled that. I'm betting they didn't consult the mods about there plans, and if they had, would you have continued?

Gee Bob, I don't know you (Though you have the same name as our mortgage manager! lol) but you may not have been here as long as some of us. Everything we do here is free...at least currently! Moderators help our network! How did someone so young and handsome get so cynical!

LISTEN, IT MUST BE A PAIN IN TH## to watch this site every single day, and rewrite code when people try to hack it. But it is the members who made it a success. LONG LIVE THE PEOPLE!!! WITHOUT PEEPS YOU GOT NO SITE!! by this time the founders are probably tired of AR and the hassle AND HAVE RENEWED THEIR EFFORTS TO SELL TO SOMEONE ELSE. IT'S A FREE COUNTRY.

I'm with you Carole...cynical is right....with only 5 whole posts written since April. I don't see what that negativity is all about when there's not much participation in the community anyway.

wow... this was a rather testy post...interesting comments....touching home here with many!

Testy?

I hope she meant the comments were testy LOL

Ahem....sorry to interrupt....but for what it's worth:

When any organization begins to charge from both "sides" (users and advertisers) sompin' funny begins to happen. Money becomes the entire focus (which, at some level, is - probably - already the reality). Not to say that moderators/administrators/investors/owners don't have the right to earn from their brilliance and initiative, but that very brilliance and initiative will bring its own reward, if it hasn't already. We're ALL in business to make money. Every one of us. And that's cool.

On the other side of the puddle, charging will likely not reduce the amount of K.R.A.P, nor the feeling that "featuredes" are biased. Of course they're biased. The rating is given by people.

And now that I've added exactly nothing to the conversation, I'll be going. Thank you very much; very nice to meet you. The evening was simply lovely....

Jaynee

Wrong wording..:) maybe ...interesting post..testy comments... So...you guys get any good feedback? :)

SEP

2007

Very interesting concept. Would we all pay to get together in person and BS with each other?

It's totally true...this post was about whether or not AR should start charging right? Well the whole second half of comments turned into the alleged favoritism of being featured...give it up already...features get you nothing but being popular while you are up on the dashboard. Don't accuse unless you have absolute proof to back up your words.You are either in this for SEO or points or popularity. Childish really...go start your own blog and see how many people comment on it. That will really tell you if anyone is interested in your writing. Lets get an outside consumer to comment here and see if they really care.

I can tell you that once they start charging about 70% of the members will disappear or more. But that is probably OK since only about 15% or 20% of the members in my estimation are very active anyway.

"Moderators help our network!"

I agree, which is why it was a legit question. People are proposing the payment of a fee to do something they have been doing for free. Mods work for free. I assume some are in it for the short lived ego trip, but that most wanted to contribute to something that was truly a community effort.

My experience has been that people have no problem volunteering when they see themselves as all in it together, but that attitude changes though when the status quo changes. A multi-million dollar payday changes the status quo. I have seen it many times before. It isn't cynicism, it's past experience.

I have never said that AR shouldn't be sold or that the creators and owners don't deserve every dollar they get. I absolutely believe that they do. But I also have believed since last August (I have been around a lot longer and followed this a lot closer than you know) that this was created with the primary intent to sell. That's what guys with their smarts and ability do.

The difference is that many here didn't see it this way, which is why some think that a fee or advertising should tied these guys over since it's more than they've been making. Well, it isn't enough. Never will be. Not even close.

Once these guys order their Maseratis and a paid staff staff handles all the back end stuff, the status quo will be forever changed. The one for all and all for one community will then be a company town. Are all you mods still going to be willing to bust your tail for free?

BTW Sally, I've been following AR since Inman in 2006 and I actually joined in November. I just don't build content for others for free. Aloha.

Then why comment for "free". I don't agree with you because I don't really care how anyone makes their money....that's their business...not yours or mine. And also, I don't believe in creating "conversation" the way you are doing it. I joined this community because I have had fun. I have expanded my writing skills. What you are bringing up may be important to you or you may be just commenting to create some negative outcome....what it is I can't figure out...nor do I care to. All I know is that what I feel for this network doesn't include the mindset of "money". Sorry, but this isn't my main intent. Just like with my business. It isn't money first and client's interests after....it's the other way around.

Okay...I've had enough because it really is mute trying to prove a point to someone who doesn't care.

MF: I think I figured out this afternoon why the AR guys don't want to charge; as you know, Jonathan wrote a post saying it's free and it always will be (which presumablly means through their ownership anyway). If they charge as we've seen in the discussion, there will be fewer members

I think they won't charge because the bigger the membership the more the company is worth on the open market. Just my opinion.

Sally, I'm simply voicing an opinion. If you don't care, then why the attack? Why can't you debate an issue instead of coming after the person?

And exactly what point have you been trying to prove, other than that you don't like me?

Carole,

Yeah, I have done a 180. Actually I threw the notion out there to let other people voice there opinions to help me formulate mine. Charging will not work. Their goal is to sell, and they need members and content to do that. Without those things, they have nothing to sell. There are some interesting discussions going on out there in the blogosphere about this whole thing, and I have to say that my thoughts and feelings have been transformed by some of them.

Bob, I find your interest in AR now intriguing. You have been observing for a long time. What makes you comment now after over a year of relative silence. Don't get me wrong, your comments are welcomed here.

I have been asking the question of monetization since my first post. After Inman in 2006, I was told by many who talked to the "AR Gods" that they were not in this for the money.

I have made over 100 comments since then, so I've not been entirely quiet. I don't write many blog posts because there has been nothing in writing explaining ownership rights with regard to content and I don't build content for others for free. I have created and sold online properties for some time, so now that the Move.com issue is front and center, it's something of interest to me.

The lawsuit and the way details were leaked to Inman makes it even more interesting because it addresses the two main issues with AR - how is it monetized, and who owns the content. While I understand that many have learned and gained a great deal here, both of those issues should have always been of interest to all members.

Thanks for the welcome.

Bob, I didn't ask about the monetization plan until my 5th post in August of 2006. Nobody responded.

OCT

2007

I would pay a small fee to be here... say 25 bucks a year

OCT

2007

I think Activerain should play out the free thing and become a media asset like so many other sites. Bottom line is when you get to 1,000,000 visitors per month all around the topic of real estate, it is worth someting to advertisers. Rather than pay-to-play I would just as soon have AR continue to sell advertising and grow that side of their business.

We don't work for free.......so........

Let me be real honest,I dont feel like you should have to pay for helping not only each other but the public as well. In todays day and age we pay for to much anyway, Please dont "Rain" on my parade activerain.

OCT

2007

I vote for free and use the dynamic that myspace uses to get money. They are getting 20 million a month just to put on ads. We can do that on AR with google and some others that do not hurt us at AR.

FEB

this is a real throwback post to where the whole idea perhaps started.

I visited this post yesterday for old times sake...back now because of the new comment

Wow. I wrote this!? How quickly we forget. Castellum Realty, what brought you to this post? And MM, what brought you here yesterday?

If the idea started here, I want some royalties ;-)

Well, well Maureen a post is revived on AR. 17 months later.

Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp): Real Estate Agent in Seattle, WA

NO CHARGE!!! :)

For various reasons, today is a pretty busy day for me, but I will do my best to put up a blog post that talks about some of our planned revenue models.

09/28/2007 04:18 PM

by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)

Delete Report as Spam

well i was looking for your localism post, "localism in motion",afterwhich it would be added to our new localism compendium.

MF I was reading a post I wrote about the same time...with a link to this post, I went looking for a post I'd written because of something that was in the Inman article about AR yesterday.

Maureen, I found your comment and it looks like I'm not the only one. ;-)

FEB

(I posted this on the "New Membership Plan" post as well.)

Maureen,

In order to get the full meaning from the comment I made the reader needs to understand the context of the conversations taking place on the network at the time. When it was published there was much discussion on ActiveRain that our members would invest time into the network under the premise that it was free and then once they were committed we would start charging them to continue maintaining their blog.

In my comment I made two primary statements:

1. "We have some great business models that we have put together and they don't involve charging for participation."

This was true. We did have business models that did not involve charging for participation. Advertising is one example.

2. "Frankly, I am absolutely honored that so many of you would be willing to support this network through your willingness to pay a subscription fee, but bottom line is that it won't happen."

In this statement I was speaking to the existing members ("so many of you") and was attempting to reassure them that we would not start to charge them a subscription fee for basic service.

Our new plan maintains this commitment to not charge our existing members a subscription fee, and our new members are still offered a basic membership to ActiveRain for free.

Obviously at that time we did plan to offer subscription services for participation in certain aspects in the network - just not basic access for existing members.

We have not been shy to put our plans and commitments down in writing on our network. This is rare for businesses in this day and age when most try to leave as many outs as possible. We have done everything within our power to be transparent and forthright and then to honor our commitments. We will continue to strive to honor these commitments into the future. We will make mistakes but we will always first try to do what is right.

Jonathan,

I support your right to make money on activerain as much now as I did when I wrote this post. I did not quote you as a criticism. I quoted you because I thought it was interesting to look back in time. You kept your word.

FEB

Thank you for your follow up comment, I was worried that you thought that I said one thing and did another. My integrity is important to me.

I remembered this post specifically when we were drafting our announcement post and I KNEW that someone would take at least one old quote and bring it back. I would never even try to pull a fast one on our members - if for no other reason than I could never get away with it.

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