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In Defense of Plagiarism!

Does that title get under your skin? Good! I want to talk and you are welcome to talk back. Take off the gloves, remove the blinders and let's just sort this out once and for all. Plagiarism is OKAY in some situations.

Content theft Getting you to click that Blog Title link is the only reason for the Title at all. I'll dispense with the "defense of plagiarism" issue in this short paragraph. Plagiarism is theft and is never "Okay" or defendable. I just wanted to get you to read this article and selected the most aggravating title I could think of to get you here.

Now that we have that out of the way, I would like some feedback and ideas. ActiveRain is loaded with bright minds and clear thinkers. We have a problem. There has to be a solution (or several solutions). I'm hoping this post will act as an informal round table to problem solve the plagiarism problem. What do we do?

The Problem As I See It

The number of plagiarized post and images is increasing. I don't think this is because we have a bigger proportion of thieves, I think it is because we are growing and have so many members. In addition, any network of this size is bound to attract the spammer crowd. Some of them will do anything to build backlinks or content. I think there are 3 types of plagiarizers (plagiarists ?).

The Real Thief

Doesn't give a damn who owns or who created what. Believes the internet is a candy store where whatever can be gotten away with, should be taken advantage of. No moral fiber, lowest of low, shallow end of the gene pool. These people are playing a numbers game. They know the'll get busted. The also know they will get away with many of their activities without prosecution, so they "play the numbers". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. They get internet exposure to the sites they are trying to develop in the interim.

The Lazy Thief

Writing isn't easy for many of us. The Lazy Thief doesn't even try. It's too much bother to learn the skills and the Lazy Thief wants instant gratification. So the Lazy Thief simply copies someone elses hard work and hopes it doesn't get noticed. More than likely their Real Estate business is run the same way. Cutting corners and bending rules becomes a habit.

The Internet Rookie

This is the only group I have some empathy for. (empathy, not sympathy). The Rookie is new to the game, sees it's value, wants to play in the game and does not give forethought to what they are doing. The Rookie thinks "wow, this is a great article, I wish I could write this well, I'll use this to get started...". When the Rookie is found out, they are often terribly embarassed (and they should be), and genuinely contrite. They steal once, learn the error of their ways in a most public manner and never transgress again. It's painful to watch. These are not bad people, there are often good people making very public mistakes.

Our Current Solution

We have the flagging system. It does not seem to be working well. I believe the backlog of flagged posts is significant.

We have the moderators. We (the moderators) watch for cut-n-paste constantly. What we want to do is to read what's posted and get the good articles featured in a timely fashion. What we often end up doing is spending time playing policeman (or woman). It's frustrating, irritating and very time consuming. When we find what appears to be plagiarized content, we can't just jump on the member. First of all, we have to be sure the content is plagiarized. Then we need to contact AR. Moderators cannot delete or "sandbox" a post.

We have the members. When a member finds their own content stolen, all hell breaks loose. When a member finds a friend's content plagiarized, they notify their friend. But there is no coordinated action. A post about plagiarized content can easily get overlooked and that is not acceptable, is it?

Now It's Your Turn

There must to be a better solution! What are your ideas? Should we ask to have the software rewritten in some manner. Should we form a volunteer group (akk, I don't like that one). Should we ask ActiveRain to get the whole network signed up with Copyscape?

Let's get some ideas on the table. Simple ideas are okay. Complicated ideas are okay. Let's just get some organized brain power working here. Between the group (50,000 brains = lots of brainpower), we should be able to come up with the solution.

Remember What Mom Said

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem". Get involved. Throw out your idea. Even if it seems crazy or impossible. We are the network. You are the network. We can make it change for the better. One of us just may have a solution ActiveRain hasn't thought of .

Edited @ 19:03 -- As promised Lenn Harley posted a copy of her attorney letter to people who steal her content here.

Posted by Mark Flanders on 09/30/2007 12:17 PM

Comments (114)

plagiarism

114 Comments on In Defense of Plagiarism!

SEP

2007

Mark, I like the idea of a network of volunteers here, I know you're not crazy about that. It's because of the last line of your post "We are the network". I think we do a great job of policing ourselves here and policing others. Yes, we are seeing more and more of this crap (no other word for it comes easily to mind) going on but that is because we are growing. It's akin to crime rates in bigger cities: More people, more crime.

Getting Copyscape for the whole network would be expensive I would think and perhaps cumbersome to the servers. I could be wrong though, I'll let the techies answer that suggestion.

You broke down the 3 types of plagerists very well. The "rookies" I have patience with. The blatant thieves I have no sympathy for. It isn't only here on AR that we are seeing it, it's becoming apparant that it is happening everywhere. For myself, if it's a rookie mistake I have tolerance. If I see another one of my posts plagerized though by a non-rookie the gloves are coming off and the offender won't have to worry about AR "policing", I'll be taking care of it myself. I've grown a backbone since I've joined AR, thanks to other members for this.

Mark,

Now that the backlog of flagged posts has been cleared away, those people who flag plagiarized posts will likely go back to doing it. I generally don't read plagiarized posts and tend to just ignore them as I feel they'll fall by the wayside due to lack of readership.

I'm signed up with copyscape and I think it's an excellent program however there is the issue of what to do when you find someone is plagiarizing your posts. One guy(a mortgage broker) was plagiarizing my posts from AR in an offsite blog and all he did was laugh at me when I called him on it. He removed them, however how long had they been up as his before I caught him?

I think people on AR should be given one warning and then banned. Period.

Hey Mark,

Aren't you up awfully early! It's so good to see you back!!! Not sure if I have an idea to contribute to this dilemma. I have felt from the start that in such a huge network that there really are no original ideas and it's inevitable that people will post about the same subject. There are only so many ways to talk about the same stuff. So, unless it's an obvious cut and paste of someone else's personal photo stock or some such thing, I don't know how you fingerprint ideas. I'm no genius but I have had situations where others have stepped over me to do something that might be misconstrued as plagiarism. But I also recognize that we are in a fiercely competitive business. I think each situation has to be dealt with on an individual basis. There is no way to blanket it. Maybe there needs to be one person to oversee specifically those things that come up. Sorry but I try to be diplomatic and I'm afraid I haven't been much help here. But once again, I'm just happy to see you again in the Rain. I hope you are well!

Warmest Regards,

Lisa

To me the solution is quite simple: BALLS. The culprits should be banned by someone who has them. In many cases we know who the plagerizers are. They've been called out. They are still here. Why? Lack of them.

Perhaps something simple to start with might help some. Even though when a person has created a post, a message pops up about posting original content, those messages are often overlooked.

How many of us have simply clicked through all of the messages at the end of a task. In addition those that do take the time MAY often disregard the warning having weighed the time and effort it took to create their effort against the risk.

Small solution : After pushing the Post or New Blog Entry button to begin writing your new post entry, a warning message in Red should pop up that must be acknowledged before proceeding.

I'm with Linda...ban them. 3 strikes and your out...is very very generous. Maybe it should be 2 strikes...

I do work hard to think of posts and organize them, and definitely get angry when anyone takes a lighter, unethical route. The problems inherent here are similar to any other situation where anyone's trying to get over: the perpetrators will just go about it another way.

Off with their fingers after three strikes!

(not really, just their membership) Or turn their text pink because they type like a girl or something.

Kris: So far that's the only semi-workable idea I could think of. And I agree the the second time the "rookie gloves" come off.

Jo-Anne: I agree that this junk often gets ignored because it's obvious. I think that there must be some way to effectively patrol AR even if we can't patrol the entire intenet. It fries me when I see a plagiarized post with complimentary comments.

Lisa: I'm always up early. :) 3:00 AM is normal (for me). I just wake up and get up. After 6:00 PM though, I'm useless. I'm a real party animal wouldn't you say? It' good to hear from you too.

I agree with Monika, three stricks your OUT.

Linda: LOL...Don't hold back girl, tell me what you really think! If you know of a repeat offender, send me an email. I'll make sure it gets tended to.

Herb: I'm hoping somebody can come up with something simple yet effective. Maybe the ability for moderators to "sandbox" a post. Then the members could just send a message to a moderator and we could spread the policeman duties over the entire crowd.

Moni: I think 2 strikes you're out is appropriate. It doesn't take more than 2 to see a behavior pattern. PS - I'll get back with Jay in a little while to finish what we started yesterday. I got tied up with family stuff and then it was bedtime.

I'm loving the pink text, myself. Simple and effective!

Okay, two votes for Pretty in Plagiarism Pink!

Maybe we can make it real sparkley when they're plagiarizing already plagiarized material? Oh, Carnac!

LOL @ CEG

Can't you just imagine the righteous indignation!

Mark,

This problem must be more widespread than originally believed....

when a newbie joins they should sign an agreement to obey the rules of the community and the guidelines set forth.

Start with the serial plagiarizers, the ones that have been around for awhile. Find 10 of their posts that are plagiarized, take the point tally for each post x2 and subtract the points when you delete the posts. Give them a five day warning to amend all of their plagiarized posts and make them write a 500 word essay on WHY you shouldn't plagiarize and make it featured.

If they can't do their homework in the allotted time, then start removing their posts and taking the point tally x3 to subtract from their point total.

Some people call me "military" and I wonder why :) This would show sincere zero tolerance and clean up people's act.

Renee,

Now THERE's a unique idea. I like it.

Here's a salute

Mark My Friend...

You don't have to get under my skin to get my attention. I think about you every day :)

As far as the post itself goes...We seem to be seeing a whole lot of graphics in the comment threads that has been stolen from Google images.

But hey. I can't really complain...I stole the graphic on my last post. However, I did disclose it...

What I said is: "Image...Snatched from Cyberspace..."TM" means "Try Me" .. Right?"

I tried to locate a different graphic but it's very difficult to find balls of steel on the web. My only other recourse would have been unacceptable. LOL.

TLW...ROAR!

I think Newbies should have to read 10 posts on plagiarism and comment on each post before they are allowed to post a blog article.. if they choose to steal content after that..no excuses.. ban them.. Those of us who write original content spend way too much time to have them ripped off by some lazy twit.

Very thought-provoking.... it's just plain stealing, that's what I say!

Good timing see my blog for a blunder I made. This really helps me right about now.

Thanks!

Yes...it's annoying to keep seeing the same people utilize this network to continue posting their copy/paste stuff.

Someone suggested that we get software that the schools and colleges use to identify copy/pasters. Don't know what it is although it seems it may be something like copyscape. Funny, the ones that comment are surely ones who didn't know or don't do.

Get em...grrrrr.

1. How about training classes for bloggers--with an exam? Award points for completion.

2. Plagiarism? First offense forgiven. Second strike and you are out.

3. A software solution would help immensely.

Good post and clever title!

AR has been too busy to deal with this problem for a very long time. The offenders have been having a party here and have come to know this as a place where they could get away with it. Therein lies the problem. Until now when they have been discovered their points were simply taken away and they are the proud recipient of a red X, the content however has been left up here on AR. Why AR would leave plagiarized content up on their system has always escaped me.

The content has to be deleted.
There should be a hefty fine (points) for the first offense.
The second offense should have an even heftier fine and a 30 day suspension.
The third offense should be the last, an exit visa provided.
There should be no exception to these rules.

I don't think it is feasible to give all members access to Copyscape, but the moderators should have that as well as the ability to delete the post and initiate the fine.

A separate group of moderators should be formed to deal with plagiarism exclusively. It is very time consuming, not all moderators will have the time but it would be helpful if we all pulled a few here and there. Dealing with the plagiarized posts is very time consuming. Volunteers will be needed.

Public Spankings were considered, however we have too many members who would enjoy that way too much.

A comment upthread brought up a common misconception.

Ideas can't be copyrighted - the particular expression of those ideas IS copyrighted. So two blogs can be about the same idea (frequently are, in fact), but expressed individually, and there's no plagiarism or copyright violation.

It's the lifting of the actual words that's the problem, and that IS pretty easy to detect and prove. If you read something that's a little too "polished", that raises a red flag (though we do have some professional writers on AR who may even run their blogs past an editor before posting, to get that polish, for all I know, but it would still be their own work). If a blogger's "voice" wanders all over the map from post to post, chances are it's not their voice at all but a conglomeration of voices, and checking with google usually confirms that. Sometimes you just flat recognize what you're reading with that "deja vu" experience.

As for solutions? A group of volunteers to do the fact-checking after the post has been flagged is acceptable to me - what I don't like is the idea of a group of vigilante volunteers (hey, that sounds like a rock band! - performing next, the Vigilante Volunteers!) wandering around AR thinking they have a mandate to flag people. Way too much risk of conflict of interest there, given the nature of the forum. But if the entire AR community is the flaggers, and the volunteers merely have to check the provided URL in the case of copyright or plagiarism flagging cases, that's not so open to abuse.

An additional pop-up warning (other than the one that's already there and clearly being ignored by some folks) couldn't hurt, but given the ignoring of the one we already have, I'm not sure how effective it would be.

And I LOVE the pink text bit - three strikes, your text turns pink, four, and you're out. Seems fair.

I love Laura Manny's suggestion. :) I have only seen this twice with two different members although it apparently goes on a lot here. One of them I sent a private email to let him know (he copied a post from someone on AR) that he needed to take it down and he did, but he also laughed and called me a rather unpleasant name for calling him out. Someone like that knows what they are doing and there should be repercussions.

Hmmm. If he called you the name in writing, I'd say forward it on to the AR gods - that kind of behavior should most definitely NOT be acceptable.

"type like a girl" ??????????????? Hey now, I'm a girl and type pretty darn well. ;-)

I LOVE Renee's comments and Laurie's! I'm not sure I'm in favor of a group of members riding around in the Rain thinking they have free rein. I've seen members' posts here be called plagiarism by others and it turned out to be completely inaccurate. So, unless and until there is an accurate way to detect plagiarism that everyone will be using who may be in that group, I'd say let's let the 'flagged' post notices work. The backup on the flagged posts has been taken care of, according to Nicole's post from yesterday or the day before, so it should now only be those flagged posts that are newly flagged.

But we should certainly have some stiff penalties in place - I vote that Renee and Laurie be in charge of that mandate. And anyone who gets levied those fines should have it be public knowledge for all of us to read about and know it was dealt with.

Ann
ps - and to heck with their 'righteous indignation'! How about the indignation of those they've stolen from?? OK, back to pink sparkly stuff for those who commit that crime...... big and bold, too.

Yeah....Laurie's right...the public spanking would be loved too much by the offenders...or non offenders too..who would do it just for that purpose. :)

Scott: It has become epidemic

TLW: Aw shucks...I miss you guys too and think of you often. I have no excuse for not visiting you blog. I did enjoy the "Balls of Steel" post. It's nice to see a couple that have genuine admiration for each other.

Kaye: Not a bad idea

Robert Monk: yes it is; just plain stealing that is

Sally: any idea where to find software like that? That idea has some legs. Can we check it out? When we are done with ideas, I thought I'd bring the best of them to AR's attention to see if we can make some changes 'round these parts.

Roberta: Thanks, I'll do anything for attention :) A class for bloggers? That's an interesting idea. Would we have ethics on the agenda?

Laurie: Nice! Well thought out, simple and clear as a bell (but I was looking forward to the spanking)

Tricia: excellent point! I hadn't even thought about the conflict side of it! Does anybody have a solution for that dilemma?

Ann: I didn't see Nicole's post. I thought we still had a backlog. Thanks for the correction.

I just heard....so I emailed the gal to come comment....she had commented about that and it sounded interesting.

I too empathize with new members that do it unintentionally, and own up to it. There should be a penalty/consequence for 2nd time offenders:points and suspension time period, third time your OUT.

Morals.Morals,Morals. What satisfaction can you get from some else's work? I myself don't write well., but if I can get my message out and it is of use...I'm proud.

I feel if you are copying other's you are not getting the value or the return. Point blank. Those who do not have original thought will not succeed. I don't waste my time with them.

Mark, first off, good post.

some things I have learned:

If photo's you post in active rain or anyplace else are not copy write protected, it is not theft for someone else to take and use them. At least it is not theft according to the laws of the United States of America.
Sometimes it seems that the Flag Police here at Active Rain don't know what the heck they are doing. I have flagged about 30 posts from the same AR member which are direct copy and past from a marketing news letter which he subscribes to. No Changes at all. I have seen these same exact articles posted by 5 or 6 other AR members. This is Dup Content, and spamming of Google and the other SE's. It would not be so bad but they are using the exact same titles tags and everything.
Just because someone else has writen about a subject does not mean that when I or someone else writes about that subject, say getting a Mortgage and the home buying process in a specific town, and use the same title, that I have plagiarized the material. AR moderators don't seem to get that ether. It is very frustrating to have a blog post taken down because someone in my area is unhappy that I have writen about something specific and it is all of the sudden out ranking their website. Yes the subject matter was very similar, but how could it not be, we were writing about the same town, and home buyers doing the same thing. I even ran my article though a duplicate content filter against the article that was being referanced is the results were not highly related, yet AR took mine down. Shame on AR.

In case it is not glaringly obvious "typing like a girl" is a sophomoric (or probably more accurately, middle school) insult that implies "girls" are inferior, and to be disparaged. It is sad that this consciousness now permeates adult society to such a degree that it is simply accepted as fun, witty or cute in some way, but not cause for outrage.

On the issue at hand, I have never understood why people "protect" criminals of any sort. Why not have a special "Featured Plagiarizers" section with a jail cell border?

The plagiarism on AR has always bugged me. I hate seeing it. I think Second strike is a goner. I like the copyscape idea a lot.

Putting that plagairizing badge where the "borrowed" material once was would certainly be a wake up call.

I think they have been working on the flags. Hopefully that will put things on track.

"If photo's you post in active rain or anyplace else are not copy write protected, it is not theft for someone else to take and use them. At least it is not theft according to the laws of the United States of America."

The U.S. Copyright Office begs to disagree with you on the copyright laws of the United States (and their knowledge of copyright law trumps yours, by definition). ALL photos, ALL creative works (including emails) are copyrighted automatically upon being created (and on your digital camera or your computer counts). Which means that use of them is a violation of copyright if you do not have the explicit permission of the copyright holder (the photographer, generally) to use them, either out of the goodness of their heart or because you purchased the specific copyright for that use(istockphoto or some such).

Active Rain is slowly losing it's luster and credibility due to plagarists. In my market, I have an agent that cuts and paste a title companies daily/weekly updates and gets 'points' each and every time. I do not write tremendously long posts but I do spend the time to at least create the post myself.

I have flagged this culprit several times now and will be seen as a 'rat' but who cares, I'm a legit blogger on Active Rain (not for long though). To see an exact copy of what our local title company sends out go here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.

Here's how Webster defines plagiarize: "transitive verb : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source"

By any definition it's wrong and should not be tolerated here or anywhere else.

One clear warning and the second time you're outta here!

To All:

There have been some good comments here so far. Keep them coming please. This is an issue that all of us can get behind. We can all be a force for positive change in this environment (ActiveRain) that we enjoy so much.

I will be pursuing the suggestions on this post. This was not published because of my need to vent. I do plan to use this as social leverage in a conversation with out ActiveRain Hosts. I agree with the members who have stated the thought that AR is diminished by both the duplicate content and the plagiarism. I value highly the fact that I can drop a PR4 link (PR = Google Page Rank) at will using any anchor text I select to improve the search engine ranking of my other sites.

As a member of ActiveRain I, and every other member, wear the hat of an Author, a Blogger, an Editor, a Policeman, a Host, a Diplomat, a Student and a Teacher, at different times on different posts. All of these roles are vital to the health of our network. Some of these roles are more pleasurable than others. I don't particularly like playing Policeman. But, I'll do it to protect my content, or the content of another member. It's tedious but necessary.

AS I stated in the post, If we are not part of a solution, we are part of the problem.

We have some good ideas so far. Are there any others? I'd like to hear your ideas for solutions. Please!

There is not one single content thief or group of thieves on the network who can stand against the rest of us working as an organized unit.

We can make this change.

Great post and a lot of great suggestions. I learned a lot just reading through the comments.

Hi, Mark! To be blunt, the plagiarizers are doing it because they can. Why? There's no punishment meted out whether by taking away points or banning them. First time, take away all their points, second time ban them for life. It won't take long before the place gets cleaned up.

stopping cheating or wear the Scarlet P Mark - I wrote a post a while back and agree with much that has been written - I would love the 2 strikes and you're out too.

I learned in management you get what you reward...Active Rain has rewarded plagiarizer by giving them google juice and letting their posts stay up.

So even without points (which has been bantered on and on about) it's the SEO positioning that has "real value" - why let them steal that and get away with it?

When working to write content for Localism it's frustrating that a thief can get "eyeballs" with stolen material and the consumer will never know - on the contrary they usually copied some really good stuff (maybe even better than mine). So who's getting deceived - the consumer! There's no transparency because whoever wrote the article isn't who they're getting - they get the thief!

I joked that we should put a banner over their picture (see my sample above) that says "I cheat" or "I steal" - with the big scarlet P maybe they'd think twice but HONESTLY - why not cheat today? The system REWARDS it!!!

I know my own answer and the questions was rhetorical - you get the point.

As a society social engineering works - look how our tax code affects behaviors. When we stop rewarding it and even penalize it I believe the problem will take care of itself.

P.S. I can't imagine how awful it is for you moderator to have to sift through all the junk - thank you!!! You are the "good guys (and gals)"

The best way to deter people from doing this is to brand the post with a great big P embedded on the post. Maybe even have a footnote pointing to the original post giving them credit. It must be stopped. Great post as usual Mark.

Mark,

Obviously a major problem that is running out of control like a disease trying to keep it at bay. Unless there is a full proof way to rid AR of this...we can only do the best we can to control it. I wiish and hope something like copyscape would be the answer...but not sure it really is...looks more like sticking that alarm sign out side of your home just to deter them from doing it but doesn't really work.

Hey Mark. Great post. I love it.

For the record, I have flagged many posts and have seen positive results from my efforts. In fact, I flagged a bunch of them this morning from the same member who just copied and pasted a whole series of articles from a well known real estate on line publication that is very close to NAR. I don't believe that we are supposed to "out"anyone on ActiveRain. Giving the member the benefit of the doubt, they post a copy of the articles and then gave credit. Giving credit doesn't work.

For the record also, I have flagged numerous posts from individuals and gone back to those posts and seen the dreaded "red star". So, the idea that the flag doesn't work is incorrect. Is it possible that the person flagging a post for copyright or plagiarism is not doing it correctly. I found out after several attempts that;, in the beginning, I was doing it wrong. I was putting in the URL of the article on ActiveRain and not the URL of the post that was copied. It's a technical thing, but unless you post the URL from which the original content is copied, the ActiveRain folks have no way of knowing that the post flagged is a copy of something and, if so, what??

I have received acknowledgement from ActiveRain folks thanking me for helping.

Now, for the real reason for this comment, other than to say that I'm constantly amazed at the ignorance of folks about copyright and plagiarism. I just can't figure it. So, in the interest of education, I'm going to post a redacted copy of one of the letters that my attorney sends to map thieves when a copy of one of my maps is discovered on a competitor's web site.

I am of the opinion that we need to exercise more personal responsibility in making sure our content is not stolen and used by others. I, for one, am relentless when it comes to protecting my copyrighted content. I know the rules. I know the law and I take no prisoners. I collect damages from every single map thief that I discover. To date, I have collected over $100,000 in damages and have two copyright violators paying off judgments in monthly installments. A lot goes to legal fees which I pay monthly, but the copyright violators often have pretty high legal fees too because they are stupid and arrogant and think that they can intimidate me with their high powered attorney. They cannot. The law is on my side.

Thanks to all of my RealTalk and ActiveRain friends who have alerted me about some web sites on which they observe my maps.

Now, I'm going to post the letter as a wake up call to any lazy ActiveRain member who thinks that they can just copy content or images and paste it on their web site or blog or ActiveRain and, if they get caught, they can just take the content or image down and it's all over. It isn't always all over. Some of us proceed against violators and demand money damages. The law protects our intellectual property and provides for damages whether the property has been registered with the Copyright Office or not. The difference is that, with a copyright certificate filed, the owner of the property has the right to statutory damages. Without the copyright registration, the owner of the property is still entitled to damages, but not by statute. The difference is insignificant to me because I collect on all.

See: COPYRIGHT - SHOW AND TELL for a redacted letter to a copyright violator.

Sic 'em Lenn! grrrr!

How about a warning to all members that if they are caught, you will be expelled from Active Rain permanently. No excuses, and no exceptions. That might ruffle some feathers, but what else can you do. If someone started posting on their Blog every four letter word not in the dictionary, and dropping "F" bombs in the comments of others posts, what would you do then? Is this much different? Hmmm...you did say simple ideas were ok! LOL! Thanks Mark, great post and a real eye opener for some of us. I do Plagiarize sometimes, but it's my own stuff I do it with!! hahaha!! :-)

Mark - I wouldn't want to be the moderator who has to evaluate the numerous flagged posts. Plagiarism is never okay! I know there are many sites which give permission to use the material, it seems counter productive to me to post another's work on ones site, even with permission. People never get to know you!

Ya gotta love Lenn Harley. Her letter is a Natural Born Killer.

My goal is to create something worth stealing...

And my sympathies lie with the moderators who must be buried.

And I just don't believe that anyone thinks they are not plagiarizing when cutting and pasting someone else's work.

Speaking as a published author, it is just theft. There are no categories to theft in my book and I do believe that two tings need to happen

1. AR need to ban them and...

2. If someone steals your stuff, sue 'em! Small claims doesn't require a lawyer and it is an easy case to prove! Here is my stuff dated 9/1/07 and here is their stuff, which is actually my stuff, dated 9/5/07. Case closed.

I am on my way to bed but checked back here one more time. On my way I noticed someone who is blogging about earning 10,000 points in 2 weeks. I googled some of his stuff and it is not original. Sheesh. Can we try out some of the suggestions, like maybe the pink writing?

Mark - love the title, it did what you wanted. hate the plagiarism.

I think one warning and you are gonzo. Why give more than one chance? If it is serious we need to have a punishment that is consistent with that. Make sure everyone gets a pop-up when they post about plagiarism and they must agree that the content is NOT plagiarize (we already have to agree that is it not copyrighted).

Pink? Well, it's creative but how does that stop anything? "So what" I bet a plagiarizer would say. What will hurt more is being banned after they have been warned one time for an offense. And it keeps life simple. Any post that is plagiarized could be deleted and the points taken away for the first offense (maybe we can't do that with current writers but make it part of the guidelines that you must review and acknowledge when you join).

I would be happy to help in some way although not sure what that would be a this point. Reviewing all the potential problems posts must be very time consuming, but so far the system, whatever it is, is not working.

Jeff

I think there are a lot of good ideas here -- however, I think we need some clear guidelines where people have pointed out some grey areas -- e.g., title?? photos??? I like the 3 strikes type of idea.

How many subjects can be written concerning real estate before they begin to overlap? With over 50,000 members, it will be tough to distinguish original material to simply someone else discussing the same issue....possibly at the same time.

Colleges use a tool to determine if an essay or portion their of is plagiarized ... the problem would be pull the reference databases of other blogs and works ... a library would need to be compiled to check against.

OCT

2007

What about all the pictures and photos that someone has to own? These are all over the place. No one seems to be addressing this .. only the text.

The problem would go away if people got one warning then were banned on the second time. News would spread that it won't be tolerated.

Bob & Carolin, photos were mentioned upstream in the comments. If someone uses a photo that they don't have permission to use (remember, one can purchase the right to use an istockphoto in their blog), then it's a copyright violation, as well. This has been discussed in the past on other blogs, as well.

First warning should re-iterate the rules. Then put them under watch for a second violation. If it's blatant- they're gone.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

I agree with Chuck. To err is human. To do it again is still human but speaks to character.

When you talk about "cut and paste", I write all of my posts in Word. Then I wordsmith them, then I do a cut and paste into my blog. I hope that's not what you're talking about. Also, clip art is ok, I hope? I did all of my own photographs for a long time, then I noticed that clip art appeared to be acceptable.

I put in the last comments before I logged in!

OCT

2007

Mark,

Sorry I missed this when it was originally posted.

Ok folks, that's it.............this is going to stop. Any cut and paste stuff is going to get cleaned up. You guys are going to help. If you commented on this thread, I want 5 flags a week from you. Make sure the flags are done correctly. Like Lenn said, when you flag it, put the URL of where else you found it on the net. The posts are coming down. All of them. This is gaming the system and it is hurting the community as a whole on so many levels.

In the next couple of days, before you post a blog, it is going to say something like

"Did you write this??? If you didn't, do not post it. If you didn't write it and you do post it, you will lose 5000 points for your first offense and your second offense will result in a ban from ActiveRain"

(It won't say exactly that, but it will be very to the point, and it will be enforced)

I want the habitual offenders first. If you know one, I would expect that you let me know right away. They will get one warning (my guess is in most cases, they will disappear from the site because writing their own stuff is too tough) and I will go back and take down all the old stuff they have up that is plagiarism.

Mark said it best, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. I need you to be part of the solution with me.

Linda, I loved your comment. You guys let me know who they are, I have what Linda suggested we needed to get rid of this.

Thank you Thank you. Balls are a great asset!!!! Let's work together to clean up this place.

I'm with you!!! Like Linda said we need to work together to clean up this place!

Oh Man...

New Dad (Bob) you have made many people very happy with all of that.

There does come a point where the problem has just gone on too long.

Thanks for all that you are getting ready to do to clean up the Rain.

Personally I do not muddy up the Rain. Glad to see that those that do will have to cut the "Ka-Ka" :)

TLW...ROAR!

Sounds like a good plan Bob. There is definitely a need to clean this place up.

I didn't see this last night but I'm on board now. Love the widget Mark! And Cyndee's lol.

Obiviously if someone is simply writing about the same topic it's not plagarism. We all know what it really is. Also want to add my two cents worth of support about the system. One warning then if it happens again, gone.

People can post something someone else wrote but CREDIT has to be given! I read the comments twice and didn't see that but then I have not been up long.

PS: Good to see you Mark!

Carole,

You are right, the same topics is not plagiarism. Posting the ENTIRE article that someone else has written, without permission, even if credit is given, is not legal. There is something called fair use......and this exceeds fair use.

The way to go about doing that, is to link to it, and add your own commentary.

I agree Bob. Besides, if all you do is repost even WITH credit you look a bit silly or lazy. I think my exception to this would be announcements about events. I get emails from local peeps asking me to announce meetings etc. Then I repost their entire flyers because they have ASKED me to do so.

I think if people would look at it this way it might help: it's your blog, people are reading YOU not someone else's, so what can I do with each post to make it of value to them to want to come back to MY blog, not the person who wrote the original article, etc. That may help people realize why they need their own commentary.

And I agree completely with just posting a link otherwise (with credit of course)

Peace Out

The plagiarists could remain on the forum with a notation on each of their plagiarized posts that is LOCKED from being edited out, that says in big red letters "This content was copied from XXXXX and the writer of this blog is a plagiarist." That way the public knows as well. If the plagiarist just disappears, they can explain it away by badmouthing Active Rain. Put them in stocks in the public square. If I was a consumer and saw that a professional I was considering was plagiarizing, I wouldn't use their services.

Awe Geez...

I don't know about the whole 'public humiliation' thing.

TLW...ROAR!

Bob,

No Recycled Content image It's good to see that you found this. I was going to call you after people had a chance to throw out any ideas they had. Then I got busy. You were on the schedule for tomorrow.

I sounds like you are taking a strong approach. I think we all appreciate that. I'll help any way I can and it's clear other members will be taking this seriously too. It may take a little while, but we'll end up with a much cleaner library of content. That will improve the image overall, and should improve search engine reputation (ie. duplicate content) with time.

AR has done a fantastic job taking this network to the level it's at. Now we just need to do some housekeeping.

Looking forward to positive changes on the network!

Mark

Ooooooooooooooooo I like Bob!

Balls said the Queen, if I had them I'd be King!

Go for it! Lets clean it up.

Come on you guys.........you got me all fired up and ready to stomp out any plagiarism like a little beetle (warning, no beetle were hurt in the making of this comment) and not one person has sent me an example of it today?

Hopefully you are all out selling houses and closing loans :)

I need your help. Send all plagiarized content to bob@ you should know the rest (activerain.com if you don't). My trigger finger is getting itchy.......................

(although I did get to handle some anti-trust/price fixing stuff today which is not really that fun)

Ah Bob, you poor thing. You get to play with the biggest shiniest toy in the toybox (AR) and your expecting us to feel sympathetic because of some little anti trust/price fixing thing-a-ma-jiggy? Ha!

Some of us gotta work for a livin'. LOL . I'm busy all day today but will be on bright and early tomorrow. Keep that trigger finger warmed up.

Bob - great to hear about the clean-up plan! It's long over-due, and as you can see from all the comments here, we all really care about AR and want to help be a part of the solution.

Love the graphics in these comments!
Ann

Awe....

Come on New Dad...

You secretly enjoyed all of that :)

Okay. I am off to find you some FUN :)

TLW...ROAR!

Bob is chomping at the bit, er, trigger finger. Ok I pledge to read a lot in AR this evening. 10-4

No Plag Image Bob,

Can we have permission to put my big No Recycled Content graphic on any PLAG (slang for plagiarism of course) we find in the 'Rain?

Or this one?

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.... "PUBLIC FLOGGING"

YEAH I want public SPANKINGS!

OCT

2007

I decided to spend a few minutes looking for culprits today. It took me about 2 minutes. I didn't even have to go beyond the front page to find someone that appears to plagerize most of his stuff. I sent a link to Bob "balls" Stewart and I await the spanking.

I gave a 5000 point spanking..........started removing the posts...........then decided I would allow the offender to go in and remove the offending posts on their own. I will check back tomorrow to make sure they are all removed.

Good job Bob. You work quickly and I can tell you it is really appreciated! I'll keep viligent.

What's all the ruckus? I turn my back for one bloody minute and the dookie hits the fan! Do we need security cameras in this joint?

OCT

2007

Quite Seriously.................

This is exhausting. I could spend all day long going through and eliminating points for content that is cut and paste.

The two people that I have taken large chunks of points away from for plagiarized content have both asked that their profiles be deleted. Since I was the one that contacted them about the plagiarized content, I wonder how surprised they were when I was the one who responded to their request to cancel their account.............

Both of them 'threw their toys' or 'took their balls home?' Oh sry, you are the one with the er, well, you know LOL

All I can say is it's a necessary thing to do even if exhausting and thank you

Bob...

So what you're really saying is that if they can't cheat their way to the top...They take their toys and go home? :)

You know...That doesn't really surprise me.

...And I don't envy your job :)

TLW...ROAR!

Bob,

It's become a big problem hasn't it? Did you truly realize how much there is? i don't envy you the task. It takes lots of time and it's not happy work.

We do appreciate that you are cleaning things up 'round here. It's easy to see why many members may have become demoralized or disillusioned.

It might be a good idea to put up a post of your own highlighting what you are doing, including the points penalties and the fact that the c-and-p ers left the network. I believe you will receive much positive feedback. It would also serve as a warning that "things have changed".

Mark

PS - I think its time for one of us to come up with a spiffy new logo for Bob! What do you say folks? Anybody feeling creative? maybe something with a gorilla theme...

I think just a set of brass ones would get the point across.

LOL...

Okay. My opinion on the balls...They are actually made of steel...

As in 'steel balls'. This is funny. I wrote a post about someone having balls of steel :)

Bob...People respect the steel. I agree with Mark. Write a post and put the members on notice.

You could use this as your graphic ....

Stolen From Google Images. TM means try me :)

TLW...ROAR!

Bob, if I can be 3C, and I am lol - then you can be 3B Ball Bustin Bob. Just a thought! :-)

OCT

2007

Bonnie Erickson emailed me to read Bob's comment about 5 flags a week or maybe she meant the one to email the plagiarizers to Bob.

Here it is Monday and I had mine in for the week before noon.

Same plagiarizer who posted content from MSNBC.com, a newspaper column, CNNMoney.com, Motley Fool and a couple of other sources here has some on his Realtor.com (Move Inc.) blog and his WordPress.com blog too. I'll email Bob the AR site.

A helpful soul on ActiveRain was trying to help the newbie plagiarizer post the plagiarized newspaper column from the president of a local brokerage on Localism yesterday.

The ActiveRain member / owner of the blogs says it is someone on his team that cut and pasted the content. He plagirized something of mine on the two blogs outside ActiveRain.

FEB

2008

Hi Mark,
Yes, I'm seeing more and more here. We all need to report any and all we see, this is our community and we need to protect it.

FEB

2008

Hi Mark, How did I miss tis first time around? One solution I see is the copyscape route. Flagging must be so backlogged although we should keep that up. My pet peeve...is how plagiarized posts may have points removed but still be allowed to stay posted. This is rewarding the behavior of #1 and # 2 ''bloggers"

NOV

2008

Honestly, Mark, MOST of what I read on AR is not plagiarized - it's the rare exception. But maybe that has to do with who I subscribe to. When I see something that's blatantly plagiarized I don't comment and if they happen to be on my subscribe list, I unsubscribe. We control what we read here, so this is a topic I don't get worked up abut unless it happens to be someone plagiarizing my work - and that has not happened in an AR post, to the best of my knowledge. (and I do subscribe to copyscape).

Suggestion: Digital Watermarking - Every time we post something on AR, be it copy or photos, it receives a digital watermark. If it is used someplace else on AR (other than Re-Blogging) AR is notified and the content is removed. If it is used someplace else other than AR the original author is notified so they can take action.

I would gladly pay for this service. I would also gladly pay for a service to send cease and desist letters to offenders. I have no problem sending a c&d letter to an individual, but sometimes it is difficult to find out whom to send the letter to when it has been posted someplace like Squiddo. I see a lot of plagiarized content there.

I think the punishment for stealing content should be severe. Not only have the plagiarizers stolen my content or photos, but they have also stolen my time to track them down and write them C&D letters or send a complaint to AR or Google.

Taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong. Everyone knows that. There is no society or religion on earth that condones stealing. One warning. After that they are banned from AR.

Speaking of recycled content, how about the AR bloggers who recycle THEIR OWN content? I got tired of seeing some raise their point scores week after week by simply recycling their own content ~ usually their listings. With many properties taking months to sell, these lazy bloggers simply reposted information about the same listing OVER AND OVER again and usually only changed the title or a photo but the address was the same. Meanwhile, they RACKED UP the points just so they could get ahead of their competitors without providing worthwhile ORIGINAL content. Mind you, these UNearned points weren't strictly from recycled listings as I've noticed plenty of ways members get points by recycling content with little work. Personally, I got tired of all the crap.

I almost hesitated to mention the above because I know some types of people are always looking for (how did Mark Flanders put it?) instant gratification, cutting corners and "hoping it doesn't get noticed". Perhaps I just added to these lazy blogger's repertoire but I'm hoping I also helped some identify them so they could bring them to the attention of AR staff.

Thank you for your post. I am a fairly newbie to blogging, but do write all my original content, etc.

Like everyone else, I do research and repeat talking points etc. that are used for public information, such as synopsis of tax legislation, etc. I'm very, very careful to credit my sources, etc.

However, early on, I had a person contact me and accuse me of plagarism - seems we had the same talking points on legislative issues - She threatened to take me to the Florida Assn. of Realtors - file ethics complaint..very, very nasty. Of course I removed my entire post,.. but looking back, I should have challenged this bully.

Perhaps instead of accusations at first, a closer look into a post prior to accusations, making a call to someone, dtermining if they are new or not.. or lending a hand may be a better approach than the "pounce" and destroy. I'd like a few of you professionals to think back on how you got started, etc. and share some basics perhaps with the newbies.

Debbie Kirkland

Well, this is curious.

Can somebody tell my why this post, which has been sitting quietly on it's virtual shelf for over a year, is suddenly getting comments again?

Margaret, I agree, much of AR is unique content. Back when I wrote this there was a rising problem and I thought I might stir up some creative thinking on how to better deal with it.

Michelle, thanks for the input. I agree with you 100%. Everybody knows! Yet, here we are with a mess.

And finally, Who, pray tell, is Long Lost AR Blogger? :)

Markie Mark: It was my doing. I included your article in with several others in our newsletter today.

Debbie, that must have been unnerving as well as agravating aggravating. Yes, maybe you should have challenged your bully, but you were new at the game and I probably would have done the same as you.

Doing a bit of research before pouncing is wise council. Rich Jacobson has always promoted this approach. There have been many times a cut-and-paste post was found here on AR and when the member was contacted, it was clear the member had simply made a rookie mistake. No reason to pounce at all, there was more reason to educate than anything.

Thanks for adding to the conversation. Tolerance is a good characteristic to practice.

Good morning Rich! Aren't you still in Florida hanging out with the AR Hotties? Or was it Blogging Babes? I can't remember what we used to call the ladies.

Well Mark, the title worked. I am fairly new to AR and I have not experienced that much plagiarism. As you said, sometimes it is not so obvious to spot and it takes someone a lot of time and effort to "bust the plagiarist. I think that members of AR get caught up in trying to boost their points and just run out of things to say. I don't think that you can ever stop bloggers from doing this but I applaud you for inspiring the effort to come up with ideas to at least minimize it. Blogging has become way is too popular. My suggestion is keep hitting at the message. AR is an avenue and an opportunity to share ivaluable nformation and knowledge with other professionals and to learn from others experience. A plagiarist by what they do, is admitting they really don't have much going on in their lives, so they have to steal the lives, ideas, thoughts and experiences of others. I personally believe that everyone has something unique to share with others but first they must believe in themselves and must believe they have something to offer. What you've done is to highlight the problem and that in itself will have some impact. Keep up the good work.

I remember grade school you were disciplined for copying work and in high school and college you knew better than to try to turn in someone else's work. So as adults what makes us think we can copy and paste someone elses work and its ok.

There are some controversial and long commented posts today and it wasn't until I had nearly reached the bottom here that I realized this was a feature from last year. This tells me that plagarism is an ongoing problem. I don't know who these offenders are, but this would be a better place without them. Thanks to our moderators and the AR Team for all their hard work, what a thankless job.

I'd rather be in Orlando!

NOV

2008

I have nothing wrong with people providing a link to a full story, but I hate seeing another article cut and pasted into a blog. I don't even want to read it, even if it is good. At least write your commentary first and then provide a link. It will also keep your blog entry shorter and more likely to keep attention.

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What does the graphic say?