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Hi, I've mentioned quite often that I post sporadically on Active Rain. Why? I am always afraid of being inundated by comments from a very enthusiastic loyal corps of AR bloggers... and I think very highly of the community because of this. My problem is I can only respond during certain hours of the day due to my busy schedule, usually between 9:00 and midnight.

In any case, I did post my thoughts on the Active Rain / Move.com imbroglio over at Transparent Real Estate. Feel free to leave comments (I do learn a lot from them, I just unfortunately sometimes can't reply in a timely manner) at either site.

Here's the first part of my post:

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Watching the Active Rain / Move.com imbroglio from the blogosphere sidelines has been fascinating... here's a strategic take on how Active Rain can move forward:

Active Rain's Asset

Active Rain has one asset that differentiates their social network from any other real estate site: it owns the bloggers. This core group of real estate professionals represents the social networking hubs, the influencers that are prized by viral marketing advocates. They are intensely loyal to AR and in aggregate, the voices of these bloggers have been underestimated because the consumer has yet to discover their existence.

If you believe blogs and other Web 2.0 constructs will eventually be adopted as the new marketing platform for agents (and we think so), a real estate futurist has to project when consumers will realize that blogs and blogging agents are go-to sources for their transaction needs. From this perspective, AR's management may be premature in selling AR because the market that will develop between the bloggers and consumers hasn't happened yet. Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg famously did not sell out to Yahoo for $1 billion last year, and then re-created Facebook this spring with its wildly successful F8 platform and established legitimacy across the masses beyond its college ranks (and now it's contemplated to be worth about $10 billion ).

AR may potentially evolve as a smaller real estate Facebook story - leverage their network by providing the membership with ways to develop lead generation and revenue opportunities, and traffic will increase. But it does have a few hurdles to overcome.

Active Rain's Challenges

1) AR owns the bloggers, who owns the content?

A lot of commentary running through AR on this, but I consider this is a non-issue as long as AR sustains credibility with bloggers (and I think they will based on history). The mutual and beneficial co-dependence between Active Rain and its authors will continue to provide value for both sides: for AR, enhanced value based on traffic and for the bloggers, online presence and potential lead generation.

References:
Reaping The Fruits Of Others’ Labor? Or Adding Value To It? - 3Oceans
Elephant in the Rain - CEO Jon Washburn's response to AR's relationship with its network

Here are the four main problems facing AR that need to be addressed in order to qualify for expansion capital. It goes without saying that AR needs to address the standard criteria universally used for venture capital investment - business model, traction, competition and management.

2) Developing the proforma revenue model - all RE 2.0 properties from Zillow to Trulia grapple with the dearth of immediate cash flow and are on spec with their investors to eventually monetize on advertising as opposed to transactional revenue. What's important is the direction of the business model, and AR needs to address how to build the consumer traffic that will create the demand for advertising from RE professionals who want to access consumer leads. I should mention that sites like Realtor.com and Housevalues have been able to demonstrate preferred ad placement and lead selling revenue models, but are not proving that these models will be acceptable to agents going forward as less costly Web 2.0 alternatives are adopted (see Housevalues stock price chart below).



3) AR needs to augment their relatively puny consumer traffic. The Quantcast comparison graph below illustrates what real estate bloggers already understand - consumers comprise an overwhelming majority of traffic to real estate sites but they still don't know about the existence of blogs and bloggers, including Active Rain.



4) Management - Although AR's management deserves kudos for successfully creating a compelling and growing network property, the latest faux pas with Move.com exposes some management inexperience. I'm all for transparency, but even the online exposition of lawsuit documents puts both management teams in questionable light. Venture capitalists tend to invest in proven internet startup management, and will want to reshuffle management. Investors also shy away from dirty laundry.

Reference: Where's Caleb? - is an indication that AR has been great training for greener pastures.

5) Competition - forget the new real estate social networking sites that are popping up everywhere... the biggest Real Estate 2.0 fish - Move.com with their blog platform,  Zillow and Trulia with their Q&A products - and soon, the brokerages will play the blogging/social networking game and capture "market share" of bloggers away from AR.

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 In the second half of the article over at Transparent, I discuss what Active Rain should do. Please continue there... (thx!)

 

 

32 Comments on What Active Rain should do now

Excellent post Pat!  I look forward to the second half.  And thanks for posting it here.

"as less costly Web 2.0 alternatives are adopted" LOVED that line...ain't it the truth.

09/30/2007 11:01 PM by ARDELL DellaLoggia (Coldewell Banker Bain)


Great points ... one that even as a real estate professional we must consider ... who owns the content?  When a listing agent writes a description of a house ... does the Broker own that content or is that property of the seller who has contracted with the agent to perform?

You bring up many interesting points.

09/30/2007 11:05 PM by Allen Wright CNS, AHS, REPS (RealtyU)


Thanks Ardell... oops, please continue reading my recommendations for Active Rain over at Transparent Real Estate... Allen, there are many great posts about who owns the content around the blogosphere... Kevin Boer addresses it at
Reaping The Fruits Of Others’ Labor? Or Adding Value To It? and provides more links on the topic.

09/30/2007 11:09 PM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Extremely interesting post for me as the president and founder of www.agentopolis.com .We are watching the AR vs. Move situation very carefully and trying to learn as much as we can from it.  I was a little surprised at what Move was willing to pay, there must be a lot more to the equation than meets the eye.  I look forward to reading part two on your blog, which we link to from our Agentopolis blog.

09/30/2007 11:17 PM by Ken Horst (Metropolitan Financial Mortgage)


Thanks for your insightful information, greatly appreciated.  Interesting analysis. 

Do you think it would be a good opportunity for the AR Membership to try to buy AR.  If not that, then to at least receive some priority opportunity to participate in future ownership of AR?  I have started 2 blogs to try to get folks interested in becoming owners, but they did not get much 'traction'.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/220397/SHOULD-WE-TRY-TO     <<< Short version

http://activerain.com/blogsview/219056/IF-ACTIVE-RAIN-IS      <<<  Long version

The most active blog concerning the 'MOVE sale' at the moment seems to be busy with Compliments, Complaints, In-fighting, Counter-punching, etc.  To me, they are missing the opportunity.  I view this as a great opportunity to become involved in the long term benefits of this site.  As well as the opportunity to have some control over our future as bloggers.  Price and mechanics, not being the important focus for the moment, do you think having the community as owners has any merit? 

 

09/30/2007 11:44 PM by Dwight Wolfe (Emerald Coast Realty, Inc.)


Just read your 2nd half over at Transparent.  More good insight.  AR definitely needs to be more consumer friendly, that is for sure.  But Heaven forbid that we end up trying to be bloggers for the major brokerages.  Shudder at the thought!!!

10/01/2007 12:00 AM by Dwight Wolfe (Emerald Coast Realty, Inc.)


Thanks Dwight... you may shudder at the thought of agents being bloggers for broker... but blogging agents will do so for marketing purposes. Look at how many agents are writing on blog.EWM.com and providing content to their broker. If they leave, poof, they have no individual blog to show for it. That's why I always recommend that bloggers, even AR bloggers, also have their own blogs they can keep the rest of their career.  

10/01/2007 12:14 AM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Price and mechanics, not being the important focus for the moment, do you think having the community as owners has any merit? 

10/01/2007 01:42 AM by Dwight Wolfe (Emerald Coast Realty, Inc.)


Oops David, the second half is over at Transparent Real Estate and you can read it now.

Dwight, as a former investment banker, I'll just say that co-op ownership of AR sounds like an impossibility for the following reasons:

1) Who manages it? And whoever / whatever group manages it would be responsible to maintain value for its shareholders. Can you imagine the uproar of a weak or bad decision by a governing body?

2) A co-op price will never approach the value AR's owners would expect. Asking agents for money? Have you tried doing that? Ask any vendor how hard that is.

3) One possibility is for AR management to offer a minority equity stake, say 10%, to its members, but the paperwork and resources to raise such small capital just doesn't seem worth it. I would doubt that any individual investor would contribute to a passive share at a valuation of $5 million, let alone $33 million... it's akin to purchasing stock in a pre-IPO startup, and a big risk. I'm not ascribing a value to AR, I'm saying an AR share would be worth much more to an investor with strategic objectives than some agent blogger in Tulsa.

10/01/2007 02:05 AM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Interesting post, and something that I am keeping a very close eye on.

10/01/2007 06:00 AM by Bradenton Real Estate - Linda Reynolds


I definitely felt that Calebs departure and the sudden announcement were somewhat a coincidence? Interesting to know the real facts.

10/01/2007 06:25 AM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Pat -- Whatever you wrote over on Transparent, must really be "transparent"  I keep getting this -- both in FF and EI7  <s>  Maybe later today, I'll be able to see and read it.....

10/01/2007 08:44 AM by Cheryl Johnson, Bob Taylor Properties, Inc., Los Angeles, CA


Me too, I can't get the second half to appear. What's the deal?

10/01/2007 09:43 AM by Janet Guilbault, California Mortgage Expert (Peregrine Lending Company)


Pardons, my hoster GoDaddy has Transparent somehow down right now... I am working on it...

10/01/2007 09:48 AM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Excellent and thourough post. I hope this went straight to the top.

10/01/2007 10:24 AM by Chuck Willman, Arizona Realtor®, ABR, TRC (Gentry Realty)


Transparent RE seems up for now...  

Thx for the feedback all!

10/01/2007 10:40 AM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Patrick - I was thinking more of equity ownership, sell stock to AR members.  I guess that would end up as equity-coop?   I just think there is so much opportunity here and how unfortunate that almost no one here is even considering this as something they/we (AR Community) should be thinking about.  And considering how bad NAR, MOVE, and REALTOR.com have managed things for us as real estate professionals, I seek and search for the emergence of a new organization that will truely have our best interests in mind.  Wishful thinking I guess. 

Great to hear that you are/were an Investment Banker.  I will look forward to talking / blogging with you in the future.   THANKS !

 

10/01/2007 02:30 PM by Dwight Wolfe (Emerald Coast Realty, Inc.)


Pat -- I got it now.  I haven't visited Transparent live for a while.  Looks like you've redecorated a bit since my last visit.  <s>  Looks good!

Yes, for AR to be a useful destination for consumers would probably take a redesign.  Unfortunately some of the redesign would probably cause it to lose that easy comfortable feeling that has made it such an accessible place for agents to gather.

10/01/2007 03:13 PM by Cheryl Johnson, Bob Taylor Properties, Inc., Los Angeles, CA


Patrick, I'm off to read your post on Transparent RE, one thing I noticed in your post.........Facebook held out and got more. I believe that is the strategy the owners of AR should take note of.

Blogging for my broker.............nope...never gunna happen. I'm stupid but not that stupid. Besides I've only got a few agents in my office to do profiles. LOL

I would invest in AR if someone came up with a plan, absolutely. Regardless of what people think over at bloodhound, more than 500 members contribute here and we love it !!!  If you've followed all the post here, everyone wants the owners of AR to make money............just not with Move

Thanks for posting here.

10/01/2007 07:18 PM by Missy Caulk Ann Arbor Realtor Ann Arbor Real Estate (Keller Williams Ann Arbor)


Hi Missy! Thanks for your enthusiastic ping... I think your words speak volumes about the loyalty of the AR network.

10/01/2007 07:34 PM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Missy -  See my reply on this page, I am the 5th one down.

Patrick -  I may have found my first ally with Missy.

Thanks for you other responses, 1, 2 & 3.  As far as asking agents for money, we have all dropped a lot of money on 'vendor' products that did not perform.  So I guess we are a little skeptical. 

Is Transparent Real Estate your own site?

10/01/2007 07:58 PM by Dwight Wolfe (Emerald Coast Realty, Inc.)


Dwight, I've been reading your posts and comments everywhere, but I have yet to see a plan. The kind of money Matt and Jonathan can make we can't come close too. Invest yes, but no where near what this place is worth.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/198117/Because-of-Activerain-I

Sorry Patrick for chimming in.

10/01/2007 08:04 PM by Missy Caulk Ann Arbor Realtor Ann Arbor Real Estate (Keller Williams Ann Arbor)


Pat - thanks for the mention of our broker blog.  I thought your post was well thought out and right on point. 

I do want to respond to the notion that someone blogs for their broker - they don't.  Agents blog for themselves, question is on what platform.  A company blog, much like AR provides a simple platform for the agent to get the SEO benefit from blogging without having to reinvent the wheel or make an individual long term effort to build recognition of their own site. 

Companies, unlike AR, have spent millions of dollars and many years to build a recognizable brand in their respective local markets - this is advantageous to any of the agents that are associated with that brand. 

AR is full of bloggers that hung around for a couple of months and then dropped out.  Blogging is a commitment that many agents do not have the time, the inclination, or the skill to make it a successful tool in their business. (In fact, I think you posted something similar) Larger platforms aggregate the effort into one collective push, lightening the load for any one individual blogger.  Kudos to those out there, like Missy, who have been successful on their own - it is not something that most agents can or will undertake successfully.  Building readers and viewership is an uphill climb for even the most dedicated bloggers. 

As to the content and who owns it... I would guess the answer to that is as varied as the platforms themselves.  In our case, agents are free to duplicate the content if they leave.  

Sorry for hijacking your post... but you did invite me in ;)  Thanks 

10/01/2007 08:19 PM by Beth Butler - EWM Realtors


Hi Beth,

 The EWM blog is fine for developing the SEO and traffic profile for a broker blog... and you're right, a blogging agent is really doing it for their own marketing and online presence. I applaud EWM the broker for their foresight in developing an SEO property.

 I should mention that there is another way to construct a multiuser broker blog so that each agent gets their own blog property, whether on their own domain name or even on Active Rain. The "uberblog" broker website is layered over the individual agents' blogs similar to EWM and the individual agents' articles get excerpted into the uberblog.

 We're developing these uberblog broker websites in the SF Bay Area now. Why is the blog architecture better? Agents continue to blog for themselves and develop their blog property that will last them their entire careers, while getting the same SEO and traffic benefit from traffic that is flowing through the uberblog directly to their blogs. I understand explaining this architecture is difficult because it hasn't yet been seen.

 In laymen's terms, if an agent blog for the EWM blog and they decide to leave EWM, they have no individual blog to show for their work. With the construct I'm explaining, agents can take their blog with them if they leave the brokerage. Our first example of the uberblog will hopefully launch around the time of the California Association of Realtors conference on October 8. I'll keep the network filled in because this will be revolutionary.

10/01/2007 08:34 PM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Hi Pat:

Love the idea of the uberblog and certainly see it's potential.  Having done the broker blog thing, I totally understand where you are going with this and it is brilliant. I guess the real difference between the two is branding vs content ownership, personally I see both models have much merit.  Now where does that leave AR?  Thanks for your support of our efforts.  Maybe someday we will get a chance to compare notes.

10/01/2007 08:53 PM by Beth Butler - EWM Realtors


Patrick,

A little peek into the future.  If Broker Blogs become the next step, you will witness a major portion of blogging Realtors getting their Broker licenses and breaking away from the large companies, it is already starting.  Why would Realtors want to build Broker brand blogs SEO, or send leads to them by blogging on their system?

Looking into the future beyond this lonely step in the chain I see Brokers, not unlike several now, selling these same Realtors back their own leads for 35% referral fees over and above the cut they already earn.  Sound familiar?  

What I find disturbing about this entire episode is that NAR's shadow looms over Realtor.crap and Move.shlock.  Monica McGillicutty posted about a trip to NAR several months ago, how to handle bloggers was on the agenda, but was shelved until the November meeting.  Funny timing there.   Bloggers do not want to be handled. 

Blogging has had an incredible affect on the real estate population nationwide.  Among other things it has liberated us in ways that were never possible before.  I don't think a reigning in will be tolerated.  

 

10/01/2007 11:52 PM by Laurie Manny, Long Beach CA Real Estate (Main Street Realtors Long Beach California)


Yes Laurie, brokers no longer offer value to an independent agent... you're a testimonial. We're telling brokers that providing an "uberblog" platform (read third comment up) does two things: it generates good will / unpaid lead traffic to your blogging agents who have their own blogs, and two, allows you to recruit more blogging agents who want to have the benefit of an uberblog helping to direct traffic to their blogs. We tell brokers don't be disingenuous... agents don't want to blog for your broker site to pay you for leads...

10/02/2007 02:11 AM by Patrick Kitano (Transparent Real Estate)


Laurie  - guess I must be doing something wrong on my broker blog - leads are going directly to the agent.  Never even considered selling leads back.  We don't do that on our website either. The only thing we parcel out is IDX leads.  I realize I am on my own little island down here, but we can't be the only ones who have this policy.  

 

10/02/2007 07:15 AM by Beth Butler - EWM Realtors


Beth, Laurie. Our brokers in Remax do not require any referral fees on the leads we get from any remax.com. site, local, regional, national. The leads come to us, no referral fees. So Beth you are not alone. I think more of the traditional companies ( in my area ) do that. But, I know here Prudential does require a referral fee of 35% then the normal broker split because of their partnership with Yahoo. . Even on their own listings, which is why Prud wasn't an option for me, 2 years ago when our former franchise owner did not renew.

10/02/2007 07:32 AM by Missy Caulk Ann Arbor Realtor Ann Arbor Real Estate (Keller Williams Ann Arbor)


Thanks for sharing Missy - I am sure there is a good cross section of both practices.  Since this post is really about revenue models it does provide a little insight into one facet of revenue sources for brokerage companies... referral fees, splits, desk fees, etc.- there are as many different practices as there are companies. 

10/02/2007 07:46 AM by Beth Butler - EWM Realtors


Beth and Missy,  I know that Remax passes leads through without a fee and I appreciate that Beths company does as well, it is not those models that I was addressing.  Missy hit it on the head, I wasn't going to mention names, and they are not the only broker taking excessive fees whenever possible.  

I feel that blogging is personal, between the Realtor and the consumer.  While I understand broker involvement in trying to inspire their agents to blog, it just seems to me that the broker should not be between them.   I also understand that it will take broker involvement to make that happen or in some cases a cattle prod. 

Vendors and brokers have had their hands so deep into Realtors pockets I guess I am just a bit sensitive about it.  It is one of the things I like so much about blogging and AR.  We can get our message out for free and get it out loud and clear.  

10/02/2007 12:55 PM by Laurie Manny, Long Beach CA Real Estate (Main Street Realtors Long Beach California)


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