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Is Shopping On Line Cutting Off Your Nose To Spite Your Face?

Line Drawn Nose Are we all guilty of not supporting our community stores? I know many or most of us who are active in the Active Rain Puddle frequently comment on how we like the sense of community we all have here; it's important to us. Now most of us here are involved in the Real Estate profession in one way or another (I am a Realtor®), so we also hear clients talk about their sense of community and we help them find communities in which to live. My take on it is that a Sense of Place, a Sense of Community is important to us, no matter what our jobs, be we Firemen, Lawyers, Teachers, or Shopkeepers! That last category is near and dear to my heart.

What got me going on this topic was my recent order of a blogging book. First instinct was to go to a famous on line bookstore and yes it's a fabulous site. And yes, I am out of books to read, and I get cranky when that happens, so I really don't want to wait too long to get this book - which I could have in several days if I get it from this famous on line bookstore. But then I thought about it again. Supporting my community (which I consider to be all of Northeast Ohio) is important, so why not buy it locally? I went to such a place, had a great conversation with the bookstore owner, who is ordering it for me and I should have it Wednesday or Thursday. Not too shabby. If I am really in book withdrawal between now and then I can go to the library!

Now maybe you are all rolling your eyes. Is she nuts? Well yes, but not about this. In order for our communities to thrive and keep making us feel like we belong somewhere, our shopkeepers need to stay in business! Let me throw out this theory: that without vibrant shopping areas communities die. Without vibrant shopping areas, no one wants to live there, the schools suffer, jobs suffer, the housing stock suffers. And yes I know, none of us has as much free time as we would like. I guess I'm not asking that we do ALL of our shopping in the neighborhoods, but I am saying, please think about it!

We have tons of cool places to shop here in Cleveland: The Lorain Station Historic District, is a long, long stretch of shops covering every kind of item imaginable. Ten Thousand Villages is run by volunteers and has several Cleveland locations. When you purchase gifts from them (and you Realtors® this is a fabulous place for closing gifts as well), you are supporting Fair Trade small business and craftspeople from all over the world. As well as your community!

As for that book I ordered, one of my favorite bookstores doesn't even have a website: Appletree Books in Cleveland Heights. But I have linked here some reviews that show you why people love it so much. Now if you DON'T live in Ohio, you might be tempted to not look at this link. I'm asking you to do it even if you live in New York or Idaho -- The sentiments expressed in these reviews, dollars to doughnuts, reflect how people in YOUR state feel about their independently owned bookstores too. I would venture to say that bookstores help me feel more lilke I have a wonderful Sense of Place than just about any other kind of store.

We all love our Internet (and thank you Al Gore for inventing it), our blogging, our websites. And yes, it is possible to develop, as we have here in Active Rain, a Sense of Community that we all would never want to live without. I'm just asking that you pause and think about how valuable your community is to you. And whenever possible, please support the shopkeepers within that community wherever you live, so your own hometown shopping districts can continue to thrive and prosper.

My name is Carole Cohen and I approve this message :-)

Posted by Carole Cohen Realtor®, ePRO on 11/26/2006 04:44 PM

Comments (57)

cleveland, communities, ar community

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57 Comments on Is Shopping On Line Cutting Off Your Nose To Spite Your Face?

NOV

2006

Carole, this is SO true! I miss those stores that you mention, since they're becoming fewer and further between. Part of the reason my town of Harrisburg NC has been fighting Wal-Mart and Lowe's and such, is that we know that they will kill the small independent stores-since so many people no longer see the value in the small stores with limited SKUs. I make a point of supporting independent restaurants and I still miss my favorite bookstore which was killed by Borders.

TY Leigh, it is so hard to 'fight City Hall,' which in this case means Wal Mart. Now I'm not suggesting that people spend an extra couple of hundred dollars just to support a local store instead of Walmart, but in a lot of cases, there isn't that much difference in the price point, is there! How cool of you to comment and it's nice to talk with kindred spirits!

I can see your point. I can order ink cartridges from Carrot Ink. I may save a few bucks and save on a high sales tax of 8.5%. I also get it delivered to my door. Its cheaper than Walmart in terms of time saved and money. I just ordered a lionel train because I didnt want ot go look for one. I doubt if any local stores would have the item. When it comes to jewelry then I go to a friends shop and spend it locally. So it depends on what you are buying.

I have no conflict with Wal Mart as many people in the area who make less tha 25k per year need to stretch their dollars. This is over half the people so they deserve the chance to stretch their dollars as far as they can. When You guys talk about the Walmart I take it like you are talking about the South. When K-mart was around it took none of the abuse that Wal-Mart does. When Katrina struck Wal-mart acted quickly and gave their food away to the various agencies to help the locals.

Its all how you look at things. I sort of view Wal-Mart as a local success story. Target is also welcome, is never trashed in Louisiana.

Eric, thank you for your thoughtful comments. My feelings about box stores aside, in many areas they are the largest employers in the community, and the employees are of course local, so supporting Walmart is to me, not the same as supporting the Internet where it's rare that the site exists in our own personal communities. When I put a new roof on my house, I ordered the shingles from Lowe's. It would have cost me much more to have a local roofer order them on his own. We also have a large Target Super Store going in about a mile from my home....you are correct that Walmart seems to get most of the bad pr and not the others. People seem to be delighted that Target is going to be here. KMART (a mile from me in the opposite direction) is closing it's doors. Now that is a lot of real estate to sit vacant.

"The Lovely Carole"

Shopping! Did someone say Shopping? Hold on I should probably read the post...

Okay. I read it. You, of course, are right. I keep our local stores in business on a regular basis.

I understand if I don't they will be gone and I will not be able to order special items from them.

The Western Wear store needs me. That's where I buy most of my hats and jeans...I get to special order the jeans...

I buy all my gas at the local gas station even though it's cheaper to get gas out on the highway.

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...See I Don't Give The Mall All Of My Allowance...ROAR!

Hello MDF, thank you for your comments. I am guessing then that the hat worn in your new photo on AR came from that local store? And it's quite loverly I might add

Carole,

We live in a small town and always try to support the local business people. My husbands father always did everything with a handshake and taught my husband the same business ethics.

Jay's dad's tomb stone reads "a man o f his word" and even to this day some 16 years after his passing people ...Gives me goose bumps hearing some of those stories... but people will talk about what he did for them and how he supported them.

Before I ordered the Blogging book I looked locally but could not find it. Ended up buying it on line. I do believe what goes around comes around.

Check out our new Chic Book Club...designed to help each other out....TLW and I are trying to set it up. Over on my blog

Scroll down the comments until you get to it and let us know what you think.

Monika what you are describing is the most personal kind of 'sense of place.' How awesome for you to have such wonderful stories and memories about your Father In Law. There are things I have to order on line. For example, once a year my Maryland Crab craving is nice to fulfill, and of course Cleveland is not the place for that. So I go on line and order some. I guess I was really talking about a balance, to make sure that we keep our businesses robust; and hey, like so many of us have blogged about, customers can come from people we meet in these wonderful shops.

And now I am on to see the hoopla about the book club!

Carole, I know most of the people in the local stores around me, many of them have become good friends, so I don't even think about where I am going when I need something. If one of these stores has it, then that is where I go, because I am not only getting what I want, but I also get to visit with a friend.

How cool George! Here is a big 'over the internet' hug!

NOV

2006

TLW.......I thought FOR SURE you were going to say gas was cheaper on-line. HAHAHA.

Carole... why am I not surprised that you and I think alike about this? I even try to patronize the non-franchise stores and restaurants whenever possible as I don't want to see the "mom-and-pop" businesses go out of business and have a community that only offers big-name shops and eateries.

My hubby, a property manager, also feels more comfortable giving business to small local businesses/tradespeople rather than the ones that tend to have TV commercials and big Yellow Pages ads. Strong relationships work better and you can count on those people more. The 'big guys' don't seem to care if they lose your business... you're just another number to them.

Thanks for stopping by Rob, and what gives you YOUR sense of place? LOL

Leanne, I'm not surprised we think alike either :-) I think in some communities, they are so new that 'chains' may be all they have. But there is something to be said for the mom and pops. We have a local chain (maybe six reataurants?) that I love because the food is fabulous; what they have done is have relatives open additional 'branches' of the restaurant in various other parts of Northeast Ohio. I think that' s entreprenuerial of them! Thanks for commenting

Carole,

Can I say "amen!"

This is a great topic. I have made it a point the past couple of holidays to purchase my gifts from Delaware city merchants. I love the fact that I know the owner by name, and they get to know you. And there are so many unique places around here to buy gifts -- things that you might not be able to find any other shop.

I'm thinking of doing an "Ohio basket" from a local shop for all my closing gifts. It would be a collection of Ohio made gifts, I love to support the local economy. And I've found that when you do -- it comes back to you double.

But I have to admit, that I've bought the blogging book from that online publisher. We don't have a good local bookstore -- and a trip into one of the jumbo bookstores costs me too much money!

Toby, thank you for the comments. I am smiling big time about the last one, how right you are! Going to the bookstore can be dangerous to the wallet!

I had another V8 moment when I read your gift basket idea; how fabulous. And besides branding you in the minds of your clients it certainly is paying it forward. Thanks for giving us such good ideas.

Hi Carole, another great post! I guess like most people I use the net a lot for the convenience and finding things I can't buy locally but... I still do a lot of shopping in town, especially for gift items and specialty items like hand made chocolates, etc...

Thanks for commenting, Marti; the first time I tried to order chocolate on the internet? A birthday present for an out of town friend; expensive chocolates; July in the Great Plains; can you spell h-e-a-t. OMG She said when they arrived they were hermetically sealed liquids! So yes, chocolates are now just a local gift!

Oooh ... this is a sore spot for me ... sorry if I get to serious... You know, my Mom was put out of business when the Wal-Mart moved in a couple blocks from her family-run healthfood store. Now her current job is being outsourced to India. The bain of anti-community support is awful.

Now, I understand that there are benefits to places like WalMart, as many people have a tight budget. But many have a tight budget because their "well paying" jobs were sent overseas.

If we were to "bring back" the jobs to the states, I believe it would take about a 2-3 year "readjustment" phase, where the "new" jobs would be affording the "new higher cost" of the goods - that would now be Made In America.

See? I'm sorry for the doom 'n gloom. (but I DO like chocolate...)

NOV

2006

Mariana, thank you so much for your comments. I don't see you as the voice of 'doom' but of reality. You say what I truly believe, I understand that there are benefits to places like WalMart, as many people have a tight budget. But many have a tight budget because their "well paying" jobs were sent overseas. I believe in Fair Trade as well. But to me you describe how communities can die. I hope your Mom is able to regroup and find a job that makes her happy and stays around for a while!

So, Carole...I'm taking the opposite side here.

In order for our communities to thrive and keep making us feel like we belong somewhere, our shopkeepers need to stay in business! Let me throw out this theory: that without vibrant shopping areas communities die.

I might argue that in order for our communities to thrive, our shopkeepers need to get competitive. Enabling bloated margins because they are selling a dog collar in a $38/square foot boutique is not my idea of promoting a thriving community, it's insanity.

It's all about self-interest. Now I buy into the Ten Thousand Villages concept. I would like to be seen as a "concerned and responsible consumer" by my neighbors. "The Hollywood Factor " at work once again. I'll pay double for the dog collar if I can look like a good guy.

Oh, I almost forgot ...bagels, haircuts, and drycleaning. I won't compromise these three items by going on-line.

and pizza. I like the banter of a neighborhood pizza joint.

Hiya Brian, thanks for coming and for commenting! Now I detect a few giggles here, but, some serious stuff too! The $38 dog collar is one thing. How about comparing the purchase of a set of drill bits from a local hardware store vs. Home Depot. The local guy can probably order you anything you want, but in reality only carries a few choices? And I bet you pay a bit (no pun intended ha!) more at Harry's Hypothetical Hardware, than you do at Home Depot. But for that extra $2-5 bucks, I am willing to make a purchase within my budget at the local store instead, because I think it helps my community. The dog collar may have some mystical powers for the dog and actually be worth $38. I prefer my haircuts be virtual. : - )

OK, Carole. I would pay for the convenience of Harry's vs Home Depot as well as the technical expertise. Everyone knows that Home Depot has turned into a price proposition now; there is no service.

But I wouldn't shop at Harry's just because he is "local".

The "Hollywood Factor" is truly something of value. I shop at the Farmer's Market on Sundays because I want to be seen as buying organic, not because I necessarily think it's better.

I'd actually say this:

Let me throw out this theory: that without vibrant shopping areas, people think communities die. Without vibrant shopping areas, people believe that no one wants to live there, the schools suffer, jobs suffer, the housing stock suffers. Shop local so your clients think you are as concerned as the community as they are.

Now, that's just a marketing expense.

PS- I'm reading too much Milton Friedman these last few days since he died. You'd think I was trying to win the Nobel Prize for Economics.

Economics is all about perception versus reality. or perception leading to reality. How about the fact that people used to watch how Alan Greenspan was carrying his briefcase to determine if he was going to raise the interest rates? Before he'd even hit the building for the meeting, stocks would be going up or down. I still believe most people seek a Sense of Place. I venture to say that even Milton Friedman did! (Good tribute to him on your blog btw).

I work part time for a non-profit newspaper. Every December we run a big feature article on where to buy Christmas gifts in our community. Whe they buy here we all benefit through sales taxes and by supporting the small businesses that provide the jobs to people in our community who in turn buy goods and services with their wages. I my family none of us will shop at Walmart stores because we beleive that it hurts the small shops in St. Paul. We figure if we support Walmart one day we will be working there.

Teresa:

Is shopping at Wal-Mart the equivalent to smoking in an emergency room? This is actually pretty funny because I abhor WalMart because it is crwoded and the average employee has the knowledge of a goat about his products. Is my disdain for the "closest thing to a Sovet Distribution Center" actually considered virtuous now?

Carole:

I agree with your description of perception becoming reality. I think there is a price to pay for "sense of place". Nice example. As Teresa notes, there might be virtue to being a snob (at least in my case)

The net is certainly convenient, but some stuff you still have to see and tpouch in person

Hi Teresa, thanks and I hadn't even gotten to the sales tax issues, glad you brought that up! Brian you are a loveable snob anyway! PS: I don't shop at Walmart either, although I am reluctant to paint them as evil incarnate. But I do not shop there. See, we all agree on SOMETHING even if its for different reasons lol.

John yes, and plus, sometimes ordering on line I know exactly what I am looking for. But personal gifting is the top priority for me, even if its a closing gift; so I can be in a store and see something I had NOT planned on buying and say omg that would be perfect.

Great post & great fun.

Carole, Great post. Good topic. I used to have many ma and pa shops in my neighborhood. The best bookstore Shakespeare books was pretty much forced out of business when Barnes & Noble came in next door and took up the whole block with an espresso bar. Everything on my block and neighborhood became a big chain. Banana Republic, Gap, Godiva, Coach, Duane Reade (drugstore) every other block. I should shop at the little ones that are still left actually I know people that could use a$38 dog collar.

The one thing the internet can't give a shopper that a local merchant can is instant gratification. There are some things I can't wait 2 days for.

Hi Mitchell, nice to see you. You got me thinking: the uniqueness of the neighborhoods disappears, and it's as if they have 'unbranded themselves. Now so many of my neighborhoods are like you describe (well, without the Coach Store! lol) My question becomes, do we lose our ability to create our own uniqueness when we seem to be so easily satisfied with the look a like chain mentality? Or have we just unleased our creative efforts elsewhere.

I know people who should be in a dog collar whether or not it costs $38 : - )

Carole,

Great post! I agree about supporting local businesses. But I do live in a very small town area...we just got a major book store only in the last 2 years and it is pretty small as far as major bookstores go. So I'm probably the queen of online shopping. But I make it up by occasionally blogging about some of our small local business owners...I usually send them a link and they are thrilled for the online publicity.

Linda hello! Holmbergs (in your link) sounds divine; that huge container of apple crisp would be good at my broker's open next Tuesday. Every time I hear you talk about your area it sounds so idyllic. I bet even the mice are happy there : - )

Carole,

I can't speak for all over but in NY I think the chains come in because the rents have become so high that only mega companies can pay the rent and can afford to have no customers.

We do become satisfied because I developed an affection for Barnes and Noble and don't really miss the little book store that I had to climb up on a ladder to get a book.

Mitchell: thanks for pointing that out about the rents affecting who can set up shop and who cannot. I have a friend who lives/works for a condo developer near Wall Street (I think the street name is Greenwich but don't quote me) and he was lamenting a few months ago about the lack of places to go there.

Now...bookstores are an entirely different story. Like pizzerias...I enjoy the banter that comes with a good bookstore. I LOVE to be seen at the bookstore, too. Hey, I guess I am a snob!

Brian you make me smile lolol

NOV

2006

Carole,

I wonder If it's 88greenwich I just got an invitation for a broker's breakfast preview next Thursday at Greenwich Club Residences. You're right Wall Street used to be where people went to work 9-5 (or 7am to midnight) so there isn't even a supermarket. Now it is a hot new place to live (the financial district) Retail should start moving in soon.

One new condo is marketing to young wall street types offering 5 star hotel ammenities. Everything is in the building. One ad for a new building in the financial district shows a guy at his desk looking up at a beautiful new condo and the headline reads: "You tell your clients not to sit on their money"

Brian,

The Barnes and Noble in my neighborhood is very social, it's like the community center for intellectuals. Also a pick up joint LOL

Hi Mitchell! It's not but it has to be pretty damn close.....its http://www.120greenwich.com I'll check out your link if you check out mine :-) I can see me saying to my client's 'don't sit on your money, honey.'

I checked out the site; it definitely has a crisp clean art deco appeal. I liked the sky deck, I imagine it gets really windy up there? I noticed the movie Wall Street on the big screen~

Carole, 120 Greenwich looks nice. both buildings are pretty close both converted older buildings. Lower Manhattan is becoming very hot. That is very funny the movie Wall Street on the screen. Very perceptive, I hadn't noticed.

Funny thing is Michael Douglas lives uptown on Central Park West around the corner from my office. I always see him walking around. I see him and Kathryn Zeta Jones holding hands walking around the block.

Here is the ad for the new condo it's 200 Chamber Street

Mitchell, so 200 Chambers is one of the new Starchitect Buildings you talk about in your last blog post? You can see a lot of neighborhood establishments from that building. It sounds very sweet to be able to see Kathryn and Michael on a hand-holding walk. See, you still have me living vicariously lol. Btw, in your blog, you have this tall, thin building, with approx fourteen cubes stacked up on each other. I kept wondering about that one but figured you had had enough of me posting on your blog lol. It's a fascinating building.

Carole,

It is 80 South street. Created by architect Santiago Calatrava from a sculpture.

12, 45 foot -transparent cubes stacked on top of each other. Glass and steel townhouses. Duplex, triplex or four story apartments. They are quite spectacular from $2.9 million

80southstreet.net

That has got to be the most strikingly interesting contemporary building I have ever seen. Bar none. It was equally interesting to look at other things the architect had done....thank you for that.

Mitchell:

As a book lover, a pseudo intellectual, and an afficianado of intelligent women, I would love the B&N in your neighborhood.

Although a good pizzeria would suffice just as well

NOV

2006

Now this is a really excellent and informative post! I'm grateful you took the time to detail the issue and at least one potential solution. Thanks for the post!

Brian, Good pizzeria's are harder to find now. I have this pet peeve about pizza. I don't know when this happened maybe early 90's. I used to have this great pizzeria Tom's Pizza. Tom, his wife, daughter and son all worked in this little place with always a line. They knew everyone in the neighborhood by name and everyone knew them.They would be flipping the pies, every minute a fresh pizza would come out of the oven and they would cut slices like an assembly line. Toms closed now it is garlick Bobs and all the pizzeria's now when you go in the pizza is sitting on the counter like its been there all day. When you order they just warm it up. What happened to FRESH Pizza?

This was a great post. Taking that moment to pause and think about the local community should result in a desire to get out and meet those local business owners to find out how you can help them grow their business! If you help them grow their business, they will help you grow yours.

Here's an example of how some Realtors do that:

Click Here

Mitchell: ewwww stale pizza does not cut it for me. Neither does chain pizza. Oddly, we have (in my neighborhood) NY Style Pizza which is not bad but you can't really hang out in there - three tables? I'm sure you might argue about whether it actually tastes like NY Pizza....

Tony and Suzzanne, ty and now here is another great idea from Jeff Turner; you all may want to click on that link it is a great way to drive traffic to your sites and also feature the locals. Thanks Jeff!

DEC

2006

So, you're telling me that the best NY pizza is in Solana Beach, CA (my hometown) at Bongiorno?

The guys are straight from Brooklyn and my favorite thing to do is call them up during a Yankees playoff game and order delivery. Of course,,,I get told to come down and pick it up.

LOL it's even a 24 hour restaurant Brian, JUST like NY. I love it. So I take it you are a Yankee and not a Mets fan? (waiting for rocks to hit my computer)

DEC

2006

If we hope that our buyers & sellers use us rather than list/purchase homes online, then we should give the same consideration to local businesses. I'm reminded of an agent who scolded her dentist for considering selling his home FSBO. She reminded him that HIS income relied on support from locals - and that he should give the same consideration. Not that many people are going to do their own dental work, but that locals could support the larger dental chains or places like Sears dental.

My opinion of Walley-world is exactly the same as Mariana's. From my previous career for a national consumer products company, I know what their requirements were for the products they purchased - IF they were to purchase at all. They've put many good companies out of business - companies where employees could make a decent wage - and not be forced to buy only at discounters. Jib-Jab did a right-on video about them that would have been very funny had it not been so true. I don't buy at Walmart out of principle.

Elaine, leave it to you to come up with the best analogy - plus your inside scoop on Walley World! I don't shop there either....out of principle. I do understand about people living in I guess more rural areas who say they have nowhere else to shop. I'm glad I have a choice.

Elaine... I found the Jib-Jab video and ya'll HAVE TO watch it! It's an incredibly hilarious parody!!!!!

Click Here: Garth Brooks - "Friends with Low Wages"

Thanks for telling us about it... LOL!

Leanne, it's only been less than 24 hours since she is back and Elaine is making my day continuously. TY for finding the link! I've never been a true Garth Brooks fan but if this is really him (or at least he allowed his face in the parody) I see him in a new light!

Carole - I am thrilled that Elaine is back! Several of us really missed her here! Elaine... if you're reading this, welcome back and I hope you stay. How's the Murph? Did you buy him a new outfit for the holidays? New Year's hat? Santa beard? LOL!

BTW, Carole... you'd be proud of me. I've been buying a few presents at small local stores. :-)

Elaine and Leanne:

The truth is that I agree with both of you about Wal-Mart. I try not to publicly state it because of my membership in the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (it violates the pure free market principles). I can't believe I'm going to put this in print (don't tattle on me to Karl Rove) but if there was EVER a company that should be unionized, it's Wal-Mart.

So...I just tell people I'm a snob and won't shop at Wal-Mart but the truth is that I don't want to contribute to their systemetized exploitation of the less fortunate.

Please...PLEASE...don't report me! I have reputation to uphold, you see.

Your secret is safe with me, Brian. Good use of the "bold" feature. ;-)

I got "kumquat" again for my word.... kumquat may.

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