question mark

 

Aren't mortgages confusing enough? It doesn't matter if it's a FHA, conventional, VA, or subprime mortgage. Let's add some more confusion. Most of us know what the rate is in regards to mortgages. Rate :  A charge or payment calculated in relation to a particular sum or quantity: interest rates. (from answer.com)  APR (Annual Percentage Rate) :  Is the cost of your credit expressed as an annual rate. This is a federally required formula, designed to help the borrower compare the cost of credit. The APR rate is different from the note rate of your mortgage and is usually higher than the note rate. Why is this?

The APR is usually different than the rate because the APR includes certain fees which are calculated into the actual rate. The problem with this is that so many people tell you to use the APR as your measuring tool when shopping with other lenders. And each lender by law is suppose to send you a Truth in Lending disclosure which shows you the APR. I'll be breaking down what a Truth in Lending disclosure is in part 2. 

So why does comparing one companies APR with another can be misleading or incorrect?  Because the lender is suppose to include certain fees in this calculation. Not only do some companies leave some of these fees out, but there are other fees that don't have to be included that some lenders might include and the rules are not clearly defined. Sound confusing? Yes and I will talk about this later.

 

So, what fees are included in the APR? These fees are generally included :

  • Points -- both origination and discount
  • Underwriting, loan processing, and document prep fees (these are generally true junk fees)
  • commitment fee
  • attorney or title closing fees
  • PMI (private mortgage insurance) or MIP for FHA (Mortgage insurance premium) financed
  • Prepaid interest - Interest that is paid from the time that you close to the end of the month. The problem here is that some lenders put 1 day or 5 days down on your good faith estimate. Even if they don't know your closing date.

Sometimes included :

  • Application fee
  • Tax related service fee

Generally not included :

  • Appraisal fee
  • Credit report fee
  • Title fee
  • Recording fees

 

 

Conclusion : The overall function of the APR is to measure the 'true cost of the loan'. It's suppose to create fairness and a level playing field amongst other lenders. Getting back to why I think comparing APR's from different companies is a bad idea? As mentioned, some lenders don't know how to compute the APR. Others leave out certain fees that should be included. Lastly, many lenders use programs that help compute the APR and not all of the programs are the same. Blame this on the government for not making it all the same.  

My opinion?  Use the TIL (Truth in Lending disclosure) as a helpful tool to ask questions why it might be higher or lower than another companies disclosure. But go back to the good faith estimate as your real tool. Why? Because all fees are supposed to be shown on this form. I would compare rate, term, and fees and here is a good example of this. (don't compare an arm with a fixed rate or a 30 yr with a 15 yr) Good Faith Estimate -- What to look for when shopping......   Just one word of advice, not every loan officer will be truthful when it comes to the good faith estimate. Some lenders will not show all costs or confuse you by mixing up the different costs. *** And remember this, most of the costs are 3rd party charges which are estimates. You need to decipher what these are in order to shop accurately. Finding a trusted mortgage consultant is very important. 

 

 

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Copyright  © 2007   by Jeff Belonger

 

28 Comments on FHA - Conventional - APR vs Rate -- Understanding the difference.......

OCT
05
2007
3 Featured Posts
Nice Post, Jeff. In Colorado, the closer at the Title Company tries to quickly explain the difference between the two when she gives the APR disclosure. I've heard ALL KINDS of explanations, but this is a good one! I think I'll use it at an office meeting for my agents if you don't mind!
10:39am • #1
260,423 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog
JB - The APR is the Government's way to confuse folks:-)  Good job explaining here though!
10:40am • #2
477,401 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lania.... thank you for the compliment. And no, I don't mind at all if you shared this. Just a hint, I can do loans in Colorado also. Seriously though, I see so many use the APR to shop and it can be very misleading at times.

Jason.....lol  well, we can certainly blame it on the gov't. But what about those lenders that take advantage of this loop hole?  thanks for the polite compliment. 

Missy.... thanks a lot.  <blushing>   Enjoy your weekend.

11:01am • #4
396,164 Points 17 Featured Posts Outside Blog
This is off topic, but I'm distracted by news I just found out about some friends of mine. I just found out they refinanced their house after having significant damage during the '04 hurricanes, when the insurance company wouldn't cover everything. They then took out a 2nd mortgage to pay from some emergency expenses. Long story short, one of those loans has a balloon payment due in less than a month and of course an ARM that will start going up at the same time. And since they co-signed a car loan for their son, who feel behind in payments, they can't refinance and the house is now worth less than the 2 mortgages. They've tried everything and keep getting turned down, and now they're afraid they're going to lose their house soon. I know this is not a unique situation, but this one is hitting too close to home.
11:18am • #5
4 Featured Posts

Jeff,

Awesome explanation!! I love your FHA posts, they really help me, and I greatly appreciate it :0)

Tom Weiss

11:24am • #6

I enjoy your FHA posts, Jeff. Keep 'em up.

Can't fault the aim of the TIL. I rather liked a post some time ago from a MB who has his own (additional) spreadsheet presentation to borrowers to compare exactly what they would pay for a loan if it lasted a certain number of years. Full term has to be rare enough to be meaningless.

As an aside, I understood that the 'sometimes included' should be and the 'generally not included' were excluded. Do I have a choice?

4:55pm • #7
OCT
06
2007
257,279 Points 26 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff - I just sent your blog to a client - I tried to get him to call you - but he is shopping like none I have ever seen before - he keeps focusing on the rate - and only the rate and is believing a lot of BS to be honest - ugh I wish he would listen
1:00am • #8
Thanks for the info! keep up the good work!
1:19am • #9
167,280 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff, Glad to have you back.  Great post. Nice way of explaining the ABC's. congrats on the gold star
6:31am • #10
211,913 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Nice post Jeff. I think this is a great blog for people getting a loan now. Great info.
7:19am • #11
443,097 Points 28 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Jeff, I'm sure your blogs help many people understand loans and what they may be getting into.  I'm sure trying to understand and get a lot of information from you.  Watching Suze Orman the other day she advised against ARM loans for the very same reasons you just posted.....And Congrats on a well deserved feature!!  Have a wonderful weekend.
7:35am • #12
297,457 Points 15 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Good morning Jeff,
Ok, this is bookmarked for study.  I can't absorb all of that in the quick reads I do here.  Thanks for providing me with more "leisure reading material".  LOL. 
8:38am • #13
129,753 Points Outside Blog

Thanks Jeff.

I have a client that is shopping for the best deal out there and he is comparing the good faith estimate to everyones. He is a realy treat to work with. He shops for the cheapest all the time and not the quality, until I mentioned that maybe he should care if they will get him to closing on time. That sparked interest and I believe he sees the light.

9:17am • #14
477,401 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lisa....  don't worry about being off topic. It's great that you are worried about them and willing to help them. Let me know after you spoken to them to see if they want to talk to me. As I mentioned, I only see one way of possibly doing this.

Tom W. .... thanks for the compliment. This was actually a general post and not just FHA. I put FHA first just for searches.  thanks again...

Alan....  thanks for the polite comment. And yes, you can't fault the usage of the TIL, but it can be very misleading with so many lenders. And yes, depending on your LOS system, you do have a choice and can play with this.

Thesa....thank you very much. There are people out there and you can't blame them, can you?  For shopping and thinking that the cheapest fees with a lower rate is always the best deal. We know that this is not always the case and that sometimes the offer is not worth the paper that it's written on. Time will tell on this on. Thanks again for mentioning my name.

Richard.... thanks for the kind words and for stopping by.

 

11:22am • #15
477,401 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Matt...... aka Coach Matt.....   thanks for the polite comments. 

Joe....  thanks for the compliment. I hope it helps others.

Carole....   you don't have to understand everything about mortgages. I do appreciate you taking the time to read this and to comment.  thanks and thanks for the compliment.

Cynthia.....  my pleasure. I hope it helps some.

Susan.....   glad that he sees the light, I hope. So many people just look at what's the cheapest on paper. This is not always the case. But in all honesty, can you blame someone for trying to get the best. It's easier for us to judge since we are in this business.

4:24pm • #16
477,401 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 

PS...  I wanted to thank the moderator who featured this. Thank you.... 

 

4:31pm • #17
122,136 Points Outside Blog
Jeff, Very informative.  I am going to bookmark this because I am confused when it comes to loans.
10:39pm • #18
165,869 Points 17 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff,

Amen to your statement, "Finding a trusted mortgage consultant is very important."  Great post.

11:50pm • #19
OCT
07
2007
257,938 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog
This is one of the more comprehensive explanations of APR I've read.
1:58am • #20

hmmm. about the best post I have ever seen about the APR...I actually give a class about it to Realtors...Your explanation is excellent....except

The items that you might have forgotten about are:

1. This loan MAY have a PREPAYMENT PENALTY...an FHA loan won't have it...

2. The Adjustable Rate Rider - This loan may adjust when you least expect it!...An FHA loan won't have it!

2:21am • #21
477,401 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Roberta L. ....  thank you very much and thanks for stopping by.

Fran....  yes it is and thanks for that warm comment.

Brain.....  thanks for the kind words, especially coming from someone that knows so much about the mortgage business.

John.....  thanks for that polite compliment. But you have me semi confused.  # 1 would be listed on the TIL. I was not explaining the TIL here but just the APR. The TIL is going to be explained in my next blog. And the adjustable rate rider???   This is about the APR, so you lost me there also. In any case, again, thanks for the compliment and for stopping by.

2:35am • #22
Excellent way of simplifying a difficult concept!  Its a great post!  Congratulations on the feature! 
3:22am • #23
1 Featured Post
Jeff, your post is terrific!  I love how you explain things.  Thanks for helping me be a little smarter!
10:37am • #24
OCT
08
2007
Jeff, I am in the process of doing a refinance cash out, I recieved a refer and my underwriter is saying that the most I can do is 85% LTV and I needed 92%.   I do alot of FHA purchases notmany refis, is the underwriter quoting FHA guides or lender guides?  I would appreciate it if you couold answer, thanks  Kate Crawford.
8:11pm • #25
OCT
10
2007
274,913 Points 29 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Jeff, this is simply a great explanation and so well written and easy to understand!  Would you like to post it on my own Lake Norman blog?  I have guests post on it.  I don't know if you can do loans in NC but let me know what you think!  diane.aurit@earthlink.net
7:26am • #26
OCT
13
2007
126,250 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

this is precisely the point of what I counsel when people are looking at dealing directly with a lender

when the rate is a hair off mine but the APR is more than a hair higher, that means there are some fees that aren't being disclosed

plus when lenders don't have to disclose all fees up front that are associated with closing, it is easy to hide fees that a borrower will just have to accept at closing or risk losing a contract or worse

this post helps people to understand that there is some real math to the number and rhyme to our reason when we can look at another lender's work and give a fair critique

the APR is the real cost of your money... the Rate is just what you're paying monthly....

the example I like is when the TV comes on with a 6.25% fixed rate at a 6.45 APR.... the .2 spread seems insignificant... in a $300,000 loan, the .2% on the payment is a few bucks a month ... but on the APR it can be as much as $20K in fees!

Don't let a lender hide fees... and when you're dealing with a broker, have them explain the GFE line by line...

10:56pm • #27
JUL
04
2008

That is what I call a detailed post on APR.  It's scary that some lenders don't know how to calculate APR.  TIL compliance is a big thing these days with loan workouts.

Great post!

6:08pm • #28

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Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages - USDA loans

Cherry Hill, NJ

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