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Just A Handful Of Nails? On A Million Dollar House? Are You Kidding?

By
Home Inspector with Aspect Inspection

 

Just A Handful Of Nails?   On A Million Dollar House?

Yup! A handful of nail is the answer to "what's holding the deck on?"

That's pretty shocking on a building valued at a million plus. The nails are Ramset type, a heavy duty concrete nail that is shot into place with a 22 cartridge. They are thick and hardened to do this but they are not for permanent use out doors. The will and are rusting.

They are not made to transfer weight, and certainly not live loads like people walking on decks. They are made to attach wood framing to concrete but the framing (vertical) parts are supposed to carry the weight.

ledger

In the photo above the ledger is 'shot' on to the brick. This is not a brick wall. It's a wood framed wall with a single facing layer of brick (called veneer) on the outside. So if lateral (sideways) forces move this building (earthquake) there is a real risk the ledger will be pulled from the wall, collapsing the deck. (The bricks will just come with it.)

The 2x4 support blocking show above that has been placed to stiffen and support the deck ledger. It has only 2 nails in the concrete. The difference between that an a pair of cinch anchors or through blots is huge and they can be had galvanized or in non-rusting alloys.

The other thing to take note of here is that it's only the edge/end of 2x4 pieces (several along the length) that reinforce the the ledger. Lateral movement of only 1.5 inches means the deck will fall.

 

The photo below is the doubled beam the supports the outer half of this deck. Structurally for weight transfer everything is good but there are some issues.

In this part of the continent we are averaging earthquake shock roughly every five years. This can't be predicted of course and they aren't major, usually less than 5.0 on the Richter scale.

That's nothing like what the west coast experiences and most people don't even notice. But your house does.

beam

So the issues are;

A The bracket on the concrete support is small and hasn't much grip on the beam. There are 4 small screws holding it and they are less than an inch from the edges of the wood beam. Gravity is doing the rest. There is some surface rust to be taken care of (rust paint).

B There is no blocking or bracing to prevent this beam from rolling over. This can easily be done with wood or metal parts. A few years ago here in Quebec a roof collapsed on a commercial building and employees were killed. Investigators found that the trusses did not fail or break, they just rolled over and collapsed. Bracing was mostly absent.

C The deck joists have no blocking or x-bracing (at the mid span) so they will be a bit bouncy under live load (people) and also risk rolling over.

Just picture a bunch of partying friends line dancing to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" and all 'jumping to the left' in unison. Not the 'smashing' party you want to envision.

Now this is not an emergency. Things will hold together for a while but it needs to be corrected and it wont cost a lot, but on a million dollar house, it should be there.

 

So when you need a full inspection......................

 

 

Posted by

bolg signature 

Not a real person
San Diego, CA

I’m having to type this because my voice recognition software doesn’t recognize my ROTFLMAO voice, which I’m doing because of this gem: “Just picture a bunch of partying friends line dancing to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" and all 'jumping to the left' in unison. Not the 'smashing' party you want to envision.”

May 18, 2011 05:53 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

I don't know what a ROTFLMAO voice is, but can't you just see the deck giving up the ghost right there.

May 18, 2011 06:53 AM
Tom Arstingstall, General Contractor, Dry Rot, Water Damage Sacramento, El Dorado County - (916) 765-5366
Dry Rot and Water Damage www.tromlerconstruction.com Mobile - 916-765-5366 - Placerville, CA
General Contractor, Dry Rot and Water Damage

Good find Robert. I see this kind of construction on DIY projects. Excellent job with the explanation of the potential problem.

"Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My _ss Off" Voice  - @Russel, too funny!

May 18, 2011 06:58 AM
Jeremy Wrenn
Winslow Homes - Youngsville, NC
VP of Finance, Winslow Homes

Robert, you're right:  I'd expect (as a consumer) that on a million dollar house no shortcuts were taken.  However as a repair contractor, I'd say the higher the value of the house, the more shortcuts I've seen taken!

For the rollover bracing, do you have a link to a diagram that shows that?  I'd be there is a simpson strongtie that does that as well.  Would it work?

And is the rollover bracing just for areas with earthquakes, or is that now suggested practice on all decks?

May 18, 2011 07:43 AM
Malcolm Johnston
Century 21 Lanthorn Real Estate LTD., Trenton, Ontario - Trenton, ON
Trenton Real Estate

Wow, it's amazing how people try to cut corners sometimes, even on million dollar homes. One jump to the left, and there may be no going back.

May 18, 2011 10:46 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Thanks for the explanation of ROTFLMAO Tom.

Jeremy, a piece of joist size material, reverse birds mouth notch cut to fit on the top of the beam and angle it up to the side of a joist about 4 feet away. Do it on both sides every 6 feet along the length approximately.

Ordinary solid joist blocking will secure it from rolling over. A deck is just another floor frame and blocking or cross bracing is needed on all floor frames, inside or out, they are built the same way.

Yes Malcolm and if the jump to the left doesn't do it the jump to the right that follows will.

May 18, 2011 11:28 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Robert the money spent on the home shouldn't matter, a good competent job should always be done. As you have so nicely shown, not always the case.

May 18, 2011 12:05 PM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Thanks Jim. Of course you are right the vcalue of the home doesn't count. It always had to be right and safe.

May 18, 2011 03:18 PM
Donald Hester
NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA
NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Robert,

Great explanation of the issues. As James stated money does not matter.

May 18, 2011 06:46 PM
Dan Edward Phillips
Dan Edward Phillips - Eureka, CA
Realtor and Broker/Owner

Good Morning Robert, excellent photos and explination of the concept of "a house of cards"!

May 18, 2011 09:24 PM
Vince Santos
StepByStep Home Services LC - Canton, MI
Southeast Michigan Home Inspector

I saw something similar a few months back except the 2x4 supports were actually nailed to the brick veneer. Scary to think what might have happened.

May 18, 2011 11:51 PM
Jeremy Wrenn
Winslow Homes - Youngsville, NC
VP of Finance, Winslow Homes

Thanks, Robert.

May 19, 2011 02:44 AM
Steven L. Smith
King of the House Home Inspection, Inc. - Bellingham, WA
Bellingham WA Home Inspector

Robert,

That seems to be a universal problem. I see it half the time here, regardless of the cost of the place.

May 19, 2011 02:52 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

That's right Don. The money part is not the important thing.

That's another way to say it Dan.

Hi Vince. Even on the concrete the nails don't penetrate more than an inch or so.

You're welcome Jeremy. I hope it was helpful. There surly are also 'strong tie' products that can be applied to do the same job. Just look at how they would work to find what you need.

It IS a big problem Steve. Cost of the property is not a factor but peoples expectations are just higher then. It's obvious that some think building out doors is a different standard.(lower)

May 19, 2011 03:04 AM