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Warning! Spray Foam Will Void Your Roof Warranty!

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Criado Realty 0548772

I'm the kind of person that I don't quote facts until I can find something verifiable, not even if it might help somebody because if it'a a hoax, it could be detrimental.

I have a favorite community with 6 builders in it, 2 are right across from each other so they tend to talk against each other, in a professional competitive way.  Mr. New Home Sales Rep informed me that the other builder's choice to spray foam will void my client's roof warranty. He even had a hand out from a roofing association.  I told him that Resnet recommends it and he deflected.  I'm not happy about the possibility of a voided warranty.  I love the other builder.  They have won green building awards for several years.  I've got to investigate for myself!

I am not a builder, nor do I profess to know everything, but I am in the remodeling business as an ancillary part of my real estate business and I take the time to research facts. I know we are to sell the dream, but by being a GREEN Realtor and an Ecobroker I hold myself to a high standard of green knowledge, which means knowing something about environmental building sciences; the envelope so to speak.  If somebody asks me what's better, cellulose or spray foam? or asks about re-barb or post tension?  I try to stay in the know to best answer the question. 

I contacted my resources and had a difficult time.  The crux of the matter is that roofers know roofing, and insulation knows insulation, but they don't drill down into either side.  How then can anyone state "Warning, you may not have a roof warranty."  Handing me a piece of paper from a roofing organization doesn't mean ALL roofers void them and there are special circumstances.  Fortunately, I came across a Q&A session from a spray foam association.  I so appreciated the credentials of the person who answered the question, a 40 year veteran of the American Society for Testing Materials - Roofing Committe, not a spray foam guy!  Here is what he had to say, and I now fully believe that some roofers are just looking for an "out" from servicing their warranty and that some builders, of the ones who don't use spray foam, are closely watching their margins very tightly and trying to survive in a highly competitive marketplace.

THE ANSWER:

Carl Cash, former Chairman of ASTM Main Roofing Committee

American Society for Testing and Materials

Most shingle manufacturers will warrant shingle roofs with sprayfoam installed to the underside of the roof deck without ventilation. But there are still a couple of shingle manufacturers who do not.

The theory was that the insulation would not allow heat to go into the attic and would increase the shingle temperature, thereby reducing its life expectancy. But, the researches determined that many other factors affected the shingle temperature much more than having insulation to the underside of the roof deck, such as:

1. Climate, How hot is it? Arizona vs Minnesota for example

2. Orientation: Which direction does the roof face, east, west, north or south

3. Color of the roof, dark colors absorb heat, white reflects.

Researchers, engineers and building scientists such Carl Cash, former Chairman of ASTM Main Roofing Committee and Anton Tenwolde of the American Forest and Paper Association, and Joe Listiburek of Building Science Corporation have demonstrated that installing insulation to the underside of the roof deck without ventilation does not affect the life of the shingles and that there is on average only a 2-3 degree F temperature difference of the shingles even in the hottest of climates.

Carl Cash reported that a shingle manufacturer could not legally void a warranty based on not ventilating the insulation installed to the underside of the roof deck. He stated that a warranty exclusion has to be reasonable and consistent with other policies of the warranty.

If order to be consistent, they would only be able to warrant shingle roofs in climate zones similar in temperature to Minnesota, painted white and only facing north. He said he would love to testify in court in opposition to a manufacturer trying to enforce that warranty.

So, let the roofing contractor know that there are other shingle manufacturers, (such as Elk and others) who specifically state that sprayfoam applications are acceptable.

Posted by
Cathy Criado President & Founder
MBA, REALTOR, BROKER, NAR GREEN, EcoBroker
Published Author
Your Real Estate Consultant!
 
999 E Basse Rd. #180-425, ​San Antonio, TX  78209​
​Direct:  (210) 560-1891
 
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Jen Bowman
Keller Williams on the Water - Holmes Beach, FL
Realtor - Anna Maria Island & Bradenton FL

I was told it was so the warranty wouldn't be voided on the shingles.  It's also there in case the roof does leak, the foam won't get wet and maybe that's what you're thinking of for the mold?  Feel free to contact the company that did mine, EnergyDefenders.com.  They're based here in GA, there may be different applications in TX.  I will say that it makes a huge difference in the temperature in my attic. 

Jun 22, 2011 12:12 PM
Kwee Huset
Kwee Huset Realty - Venice, FL
Venice Florida Homes For Sale

Cathy, thanks for sharing your great informative post, I bookmarked for future reference.

Jun 22, 2011 12:28 PM
Steve Stenros
Poway,La Jolla,Del Mar,Mira Mesa,Carlsbad,Escondido,Temecula - San Diego, CA
CREIA MCI, ICC, ACI Home Inspector,San Diego

Cathy, I was reading your post and one name jumped out at me- Joe Listiburek! I have attended several of his seminars. He is the best building science guy out there! If he says the spray foam will not affect the life of the roof, you can bank on it!

Jun 22, 2011 12:46 PM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Kwee, thanks! Please consider hitting your "suggest" button to vote it as a featured vlog, and subscribe.

Jun 22, 2011 12:49 PM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Steve, thanks for the confirmation!  Please hit the "suggest" button so others can see it as a featured post.

Jun 22, 2011 12:50 PM
Bridget "Mortgage Mama" McGee
SWBC Mortgage 410-960-2061 - Baltimore, MD
Maryland Mortgage Mama NMLS#196068

Cathy,  The question becomes who will fight the roofer if they are trying to void the warranty?  Does it become a long, involved battle?  Will homeowner's bother to fight it?  

Maryland Mortgage Mama

Jun 22, 2011 02:52 PM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Bridget, very interesting point.  Hadn't thought of that.  Unfortunately, like with everything else, the crappy companies will take advantage of il-informed consumers.  That's the bad part about capitalism.  Thanks for commenting.

 

Jun 22, 2011 03:33 PM
Joan Cox
House to Home, Inc. - Denver Real Estate - 720-231-6373 - Denver, CO
Denver Real Estate - Selling One Home at a Time

Cathy, this is very interesting information, that I will have to do some checking here in Denver on foam insulation!

Jun 23, 2011 03:07 AM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Super, thanks Joan!  In Denver it doesn't get as hot as it does in Texas so I can't imagine how the roofers can aruge that point there. 

Jun 23, 2011 03:09 AM
1~Judi Barrett
Integrity Real Estate Services 116 SE AVE N, Idabel, OK 74745 - Idabel, OK
BS Ed, Integrity Real Estate Services -IDABEL OK

Sounds complicated and confusing.  It is difficult to get the same story from both sides sometimes.

Jun 24, 2011 01:31 PM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Judi,

My point is this, the builders shouldn't be throwing around wild accusations that are not widely supported or researched. That's what gives sales people a bad name! Just be a friend and a consultant to your buyer. Bookmark it then refer to it if there is ever a question about one of your builders.

 

Carl represents both sides!  That's the beauty of it!  Thanks for commenting!

Jun 24, 2011 01:41 PM
Dale Baker
Baker Energy Audits and Commercial Properties Inspections - Claremont, NH
New Hampshire Relocation Real Estate Information

Howdy and evening to you Cathy

Cathy,
I know a lot of top builders across our Grand Country that use spray foam on the underside of the roof deck, and they nor the owners of the homes have ever had a roof warranty void because of it being done.

Even the guys that do the TV show This Old House, have even used spray foam on the underside of the roof deck of homes they have worked on.

By the way, seeing that you are in San Antonio of the Grand State of Texas, you might know my mighty good friend Carl Winters.

Have a good one
Dale in New Hampshire

Jun 24, 2011 03:35 PM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Hey there Dale!  So glad you're still checing in on my blogs.  I so appreciate the comments & reinforcement of what is becoming a controversial issue in green.  Glad to know it's just a bunch of whooplah from builder reps & not fact!

Jun 25, 2011 11:31 AM
Adrian Willanger
206 909-7536 AdrianWillanger-broker.com - Seattle, WA
Profit from my two decades of experience

Cathy-very good information and research you've got excellent points from two heavy weights in the building science field. Well done. 

Jun 26, 2011 08:35 AM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

Thanks Adrian.  Are you following me yet?  Hope so.  I think we have a lot in common!  Glad you liked the post. 

Jun 26, 2011 12:06 PM
ASHEVILLE REALTY REFERRAL RESOURCE 828-776-0779
REAL ESTATE REFERRAL NETWORK - Asheville, NC
CONTACT janeAnne365@gmail.com

Cathy~

FAB post...so informative and delivered with your special style  that combines professionalism with the sense that you love the work you do! THX! I'm Suggesting " this post!!

Jul 02, 2011 03:05 AM
Cathy Criado
Criado Realty - San Antonio, TX
Making Real Estate Profitable

JaneAnne - thanks.  That really means alot to me!  I spend alot of time researching for my own benefit, but alot of time writing for others' benefit. I know people see the value, but I don't have the exposure that I want.  Thanks for helping & greening up our world. Yes, I am passionate about it.

Jul 02, 2011 03:41 AM
1~Judi Barrett
Integrity Real Estate Services 116 SE AVE N, Idabel, OK 74745 - Idabel, OK
BS Ed, Integrity Real Estate Services -IDABEL OK

Cathy, Did NOT mean that your post was confusing..no, to the contrary. 

My statement was to agree with this part of your post:

The crux of the matter is that roofers know roofing, and insulation knows insulation, but they don't drill down into either side.  How then can anyone state "Warning, you may not have a roof warranty."  Handing me a piece of paper from a roofing organization doesn't mean ALL roofers void them and there are special circumstances. 

Jul 16, 2011 06:19 AM
Anonymous
Johnson

Rebarb?

Dec 27, 2016 04:46 PM
#21
Anonymous
John

Shingles are made of asphalt and they have adhesives that seal them. If you look at homes in Houston, you will notice about 1 in 15 have the adhesive melting, thereby the seal broken, and thereby allow water to a nail which leaks to the deck it is anchored in. Rot of deck will mean deck and shingle replacement. Additionally, lack of seal will cause shingle blow offs as the shingle will be an air dam. Only Owens Corning (Duration with nail strip) would not blow off. The idea that a shingle, which absorbs heat, and transfers that heat by conduction to the wood deck and thereby attic (which is super heated) is not affected by sprayed foam to the deck underside is incorrect. The heat from the shingle is now prevented from dispersing to the deck/attic, thereby the shingle will have a higher temperature. The life expectancy is determined by granulation.
Insurers inspect roofs, and loss of granulation will require homeowners to get a new roof to be insured, or by a sharp home inspector to sell the home. I could name some cheaper shingle manufacturer's for an example of the later without spray foam and from a properly vented roof, which is by square inches of intake and exhaust vents of airthe attic holds. The vaccum is what draws the air out, so multiple levels of exhaust can also prevent the change of air necessary to warranty roofs.

Roofers warranty the installation, manufacturer's warranty the product.

I am a roofing sales person and well educated by Sears, Houston as to warranties and properly vented attics. The proper R Value (for your area)
in Houston means 17 inches of blown in attic insulation on the ceiling according to the DOE. I strongly reccommend this because we do not know the costs yet, as spray foam is too new. I do know, where they use on mobile homes, it is very hard to remove substrates as it acts as glue. The tear off of decking sprayed with this product would be at least 200% more. I never buy the first year model of a new vehicle (see Cavalier) because all the bugs have not been worked out. Rolling Dice is chancy.

May 08, 2019 08:44 AM
#22