Ar_home_b_search
 

After several weeks of telephone tag and email exchanges, I was granted a telephone interview today with Bryan Greene, HUD Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Enforcement Division in Washington, D.C.

I had earlier forwarded by email a list of questions for HUD that were submitted by Active Rain members in mid-September.  The HUD official had the opportunity to look these over and therefore he was prepared for my questions in advance.

Since so many of the questions from AR members were anecdotal, Bryan suggested that all questions related to specific incidents or how to deal with a specific request from a consumer should be directed to the HUD Discrimination Hotline, at 1-800-669-9777.  An inquiry may also be directed to the HUD website for answers, at www.hud.gov/fairhousing.

During the course of our interview, the HUD official brought up the following points:

  • HUD is actively watching the Web, looking for instances of non-compliance with Fair Housing Laws.  Mr. Greene said "if we see violations on the Web, or if violations are reported to us, we investigate".  He mentioned that there is currently a pending investigation of a real estate company which is allegedly involved in religious discrimination.  The information behind that investigation came from the Internet.
  • HUD expects real estate professionals to report others who violate Fair Housing Laws.  Mr. Greene commented that "if an individual remains mute and fails to report a violation, that may be a violation in itself".  HUD wants real estate professionals to police the industry themselves and that includes reporting "all discriminatory acts".
  • HUD says Fair Housing complaints are on the rise, particularly over the past two years. HUD gathers statistical information on complaints and they plan a 2010 study which will track changes in complaint reporting over the current decade.
  • Non-licensees are just as liable to be prosecuted as those who hold a license.  That includes people in related industries such as home staging.

Mr. Greene noted that real estate licensees should acquaint themselves with the Federal protected classes and the bases on which discrimination complaints are founded.  I brought up that many member questions dealt with issues of schools, crime statistics and other social information.  He replied that questions about social issues "are sometimes a proxy for prohibited issues" and mentioned the need to be aware when a consumer question crosses that line.

I'd like to thank Bryan Greene of HUD and Ms. Shantae Goodloe in the HUD Office of Public Affairs in Washington, D.C., for setting up this interview.  I'd also like to thank Ms. Jamie Pedraza, Director of the Minneapolis HUD Field Office, for her assistance in making the interview possible. 

You'll find information that lead to this post in the following previous posts;

Contribute Your Questions for HUD Interview - Opportunity to Ask HUD Your Fair Housing Questions!

Is it Condoning Racism to Ignore It?  It's Time to Speak Out on Fair Housing Laws and Issues!

Why is my Agent So Vague? (by Charles McDonald)

Copyright © 2007 by Eric Kodner, All Rights Reserved

 

Contact Broker Eric Kodner with Wayzata Lakes Realty about Minneapolis and Saint Paul area properties, including Lake Minnetonka. We also sell Lake Superior, including Bayfield and Madeline Island properties.  We know Minnesota and Madeline Island real estate!

Wayzata Lakes Realty LLC (Minnesota) and Madeline Island Realty LLC (Wisconsin)

Real Estate Brokerage licensed in Minnesota & Wisconsin

Phone or Text Message 612.670.2539

MadelineIsland@Gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 
Post is included in group: Wrong Right Turn
Post is included in group: African American Realtors

41 Comments on Interview With HUD Enforcement Division Spokesman - HUD Monitoring the Internet for Fair Housing Violations

OCT
15
2007
121,054 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Eric, I was really hoping for some good definitive answers, not "He replied that questions about social issues "are sometimes a proxy for prohibited issues" and mentioned the need to be aware when a consumer question crosses that line."  Yeah right! Why not specify the line because these questions do keep coming up.

Bill Roberts

7:12pm • #1
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Bill, apparently they want us to contact the HUD Toll-free number with specific instances and questions, rather than having a spokesperson try to quote a "one size fits all" answer for questions.

The most significant thing I found from his comments during the interview was the statement that "HUD is actively watching the Web".  That has importance for Active Rain members as well as the general public.

7:18pm • #2
219,012 Points 56 Featured Posts Outside Blog
As much as I understand you have to be politically correct, I don't think you received any answers from the HUD official other than "call the hotline".  Too bad, I was hoping for more direct information about particulars.  IMHO, If HUD is afraid to comment, I think it's a representation of the vague language of FH.
10:02pm • #3
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Rick & Ines, I agree that the interviewer seemed to be more interested in answering general questions.  This "interview" was an experiment for me and I learned something about attempting to get specific information and answers from a government agency spokesperson.

It was not my intention to be "politically correct".  I'm merely reporting what was said by a HUD spokesperson.  The statements and opinions in this post are not mine.

The HUD spokesperson did say that they have noticed that Fair Housing Laws are often misquoted or mistakenly attributed to HUD.  He said the HUD toll-free number was part of their effort to see that the public gets accurate answers to individual questions, from staffers (presumably attorneys) who are qualified to respond.

10:27pm • #4
OCT
16
2007
896,638 Points 20 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Eric, First of all, thank you so much for doing this! That is fantastic!

I hope the the members on AR are reading this carefully. We are being watched for our content. they did not say AR specifically, but when you have over 50,000 members and you can do a search on subjects... well, just think about it....

We are also required to police our own industry...I.E. "if an individual remains mute and fails to report a violation, that may be a violation in itself".  HUD wants real estate professionals to police the industry themselves and that includes reporting "all discriminatory acts".

Let's all do the right thing and keep Fair Housing "LAWS" in mind!

6:33am • #5
284,607 Points 37 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Eric:  such a great effort you have made on this important subject.  As I have said before, everyone should also have a Fair Housing Counsel nearby that has people who can give presentations and answer questions at office meetings.  It's usually during small group discussions that some of the best questions arise.  Thanks again!
8:34am • #6
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Charles -- Thanks for the comment!  When I asked the HUD spokesperson about whether they monitor Internet sites, he implied that the Enforcement division is monitoring many sites.  He was aware of the existence of Active Rain and I can only assume that this site is among those being watched.

You'll recall there was a guy that commented on your post last month who boasted that he had induced an agent to violate the law and that he didn't have to concern himself with Fair Housing laws.  Apparently he was incorrect about that!

Diane -- Thank you!  I wish I could have obtained more specific information from the HUD spokesperson.  I imagine they probably don't want to comment about an anecdotal incident unless they're sure they have all the facts.  He mentioned that every reported incident is different and HUD takes a close look at complaints before coming to any conclusion.

12:26pm • #7
106,170 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Great effort Eric... Unfortunately, as an Attorney, I must face the facts: an off the cuff representation by a HUD official would be counter-productive in many cases, since he would not have all details, and would be unable to investigate and advise based on "fact" rather than on "opinion" -- so we cant really blame the guy for recommending the hotline in specific instances -- that would, or should, be obvious to most on this community.

While many might have hoped for more, I believe you obtained the best information available given the circumstances.

The issue of certain questions being a proxy for underlying prejudices is also obvious... it is simply not our place to speak to topics relating to anything of a social nature... and it is clear that doing so will throw red flags at every HUD office in the country... and I believe, rightly so.

3:37pm • #8
106,170 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor
By the way, I had a post related to this, which dealt with the arcane topic of the politics of the language we use... we should be more aware of this aspect of what we do in relation to Fair Housing.
3:47pm • #9
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Paul, I appreciate your comments and insight.  I'll be sure to read your post.

 

7:22pm • #10
OCT
17
2007
455,753 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I make sure to post the fair housing logo and our anti-discrimination policy right on our website.  I am not sure about the whole policing and turning in other people though.  To me that is really not my job.  If someone is messing around with a family member or friend or client of mine, that is different.  But with an unrelated party I am not interested in getting involved. Anytime you file a complaint or blow the whistle on someone, expect to get dragged into the complaint, testify, etc.  Then of course there are all the negatives like retaliatory action, being branded a whistleblower, etc. It is kind of a double-edged sword.
7:03pm • #11
1,545,401 Points 416 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I'm really surprised when I see a web site without at least the Fair Housing logo.  But, I see them regularly.

 

7:11pm • #12
323,528 Points 45 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Hi Eric - this is a great reminder that at all times we must be cognizant of the Fair Housing Laws.  Clearly they're watching, and have been, and we all need to be very careful on not just our posts but our comments as well.  Everything we write is subject to scrutiny.

Ann

7:40pm • #13
668,958 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Great job, Eric.

I like Paul Silver's response a lot.  It actually offers clarity regarding the waffling.

Just sell houses, people, and a lot of trouble will be avoided.

8:09pm • #14
354,272 Points 137 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Thanks for posting this Eric.  I thought it was also interesting to note that HUD is interested in what is happening outside of the real estate community ie. affiliated or related industries.
9:11pm • #15
679,738 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master
I appreciate your taking the time to get this important information.  When I hear Laurie Janik about a year ago talking about where the most lawsuits against realtors(r) were coming from -- it was fair housing.  I was shocked.  But, the 2006 legal scan show the same problem.  Incredible!
10:50pm • #16
2 Featured Posts

Eric - I'm looking forward to hearing back from them.  I'm particularly interested in how this affects home stagers specifically. 

If anything home stagers go out of their way to discourage the home sellers from profiling themselves and causing potential buyers to feel uncomfortable in their houses.  Having said that, it is unreasonable to expect a home stager to stage a high end home with props that would be unbefitting for the home and likewise it would be inappropriate to use those same props in a lower end home.  I am very much looking forward to hearing how this affects home stagers.  Thanks for sharing.

Jackie

11:07pm • #17
OCT
18
2007
733,502 Points 136 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Eric, as someone who lives among bureaucrats, in the D.C. suburbs, I know it must have taken a lot of follow-up on your part to get this interview.  Congratulations, job well done.  I think the answers DO tell us something, even though they may be general in nature - For one thing, THIS department of the government look to our industry for help while another department is trying to eliminate us, and I find that ironic.  Second, that complaints are rising, not falling. And finally, that our own words in forums like this can be used to identify fair housing violations.  And finally - agreeing with one of the commenters - why aren't we using the fair housing logo on every website?  (I had to ask for it on my Tomato blog site because it is not part of the standard template.  Is it on yours?)  Again, thanks Eric!

4:43am • #18

Eric,

You've given us a good reminder to mind our professional and ethical manners here.

6:51am • #19
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Rob, you might want to reconsider the opinion that it is not an agent's "job" to report a Fair Housing violation by another party.  HUD considers it an obligation, not merely on the part of agents but an obligation of the public as well to report violations.  That obligation becomes more serious when you obtain a real estate license.  I have had several HUD staff members, as well as more than one prominent real estate attorney, inform me that failure to report a violation (if discovered) is considered complicity and the agent who does not "blow the whistle" can be charged with a violation for failure to report.  The penalties are severe.

Shantae Goodloe at HUD in Washington D.C. forwarded to me an email link to an article about a Milwaukee agent who filed a report against another agent who cooperated with a seller's discriminatory actions.  You'll find the article at

http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/enforcement/silkey-media-advisory.pdf

The article is entitled "HUD Charges RE/MAX Agent in Milwaukee With Violating the Fair Housing Act" and was published in a recent HUD Media Advisory.

7:59am • #20
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Lenn -- I'm always surprised myself when a site omits the Fair Housing Logo.  I know it isn't required by law, but displaying the logo is a very good way to reaffirm the intention to cooperate with HUD in enforcing Fair Housing laws.

Ann -- The person I interviewed made it very clear that HUD Enforcement Division is taking a keen interest in websites dealing with real estate matters (or sites that post real estate listings), particularly the big ones!  I imagine that would include Trulia, Zillow, Active Rain, even sites like Craigslist.

Mike -- Thanks!  Paul's comments are always a welcome contribution!

 

8:07am • #21
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Lola -- HUD has made it clear that they expect the same compliance with Fair Housing from everyone, regardless of whether they are a licensee or not.  Of course, the Code of Ethics and State/Municipal laws and related penalties are involved as well.  It's clear that anyone who violates Fair Housing can find themselves in a lot of trouble in a hurry!

Joan -- For some reason, housing discrimination claims have surged during the past couple of years.  These things seem to run in cycles.  I don't know if anyone has done a study that explains why the problem keeps coming back.

Jackie -- I think the HUD spokesperson's statement was a reaction to a comment made on Active Rain by a non-licensee who boasted that he is not affected by Fair Housing laws. 

8:15am • #22
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Margaret -- I agree it's ironic to find one cabinet-level department calling on us to help put an end to housing discrimination and another department bringing accusations against our industry regarding so-called anticompetitive practices.

I think it's a lesson learned that we need to remember the transparency of blogging, not to mention anything we upload to the Web.  Social communities have a very seductive way of luring some participants into a false sense of security about the privacy of blogs and comments.  But there is nothing very private about the Internet!

 

8:25am • #23
2 Featured Posts

Eric - I'm thankful I missed any comment that was made to that effect - candidly, it's unacceptable.

You have brought to light important information - we are in an industry that though "certifies" or "accredits" very easily teaches nothing about fair housing laws and our indirect role in obeying them.  Of course it makes sense we'd be held to compliance.  Thank you again.

Jackie

9:11am • #24
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Diane, thank you for commenting!  I think occasional reminders are valuable to all of us.

Jackie -- There's an awful lot of confusion and misinformation on the part of agents (and non-agents) regarding Fair Housing law.   It's too bad there isn't more uniformity in the teaching of anti-discrimination on a nationwide basis. 

Thanks for your comments! 

9:40am • #25
Localism Sponsor
Good post!  As an Insurance agent, not only are we required by law to follow anti discrimination laws, but I feel it adds to the Success and Professional focus of my Agency.  
9:45am • #26
1,303,417 Points 313 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Interesting, Eric. Guess I agree that while HUD shared a bit in their interview with you it is rather vague. No real definitive answers. Not sure we learned much other than they are policing more, problems are on the rise ( no surprise). It is good to keep in mind that the Internet is such a powerful source of information, good and bad. Great reminder to us bloggers about what we put out there.

Jeff

9:56am • #27
865,393 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

Eric.  I'm disappointed but not surprised that the HUD official wouldn't answer any actual questions.  I'm also not surprised that they would like for us to do all of the policing.  And, while I would certainly report any violation I was directly aware of, just as he wouldn't answer questions because there might be other facts, we are not compliance and enforcement officers.  We are not expected to call 9-1-1 every time we see a speeder.  If we see a suspected drunk, we won't be prosecuted for complicity if we don't report them.  It would be a responsible thing to do, better for us and the community (I have made that call on the highway more than once), but unless we are directly involved, it shouldn't be for us to report or face criminal or civil penalties.  

I appreciate the effort you went through to get this much info from HUD.  I know it wasn't easy.  I also know that you are working in the best interests of all of us.  

Thank you.   

 

10:25am • #28
Eric, I agree with Bill "I was really hoping for some good definitive answers, not "He replied that questions about social issues "are sometimes a proxy for prohibited issues" and mentioned the need to be aware when a consumer question crosses that line."  Yeah right! Why not specify the line because these questions do keep coming up.

Bill Roberts"

 

More info needed, HUD is one of those gov't organizations that is not transparant enough for my liking.  Personally I would not shed many tiers if congress defunded them.

11:45am • #29
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Terri -- Awareness of anti-discrimination laws is good for business, in addition to being required in our respective professions!

Jeff -- It's significant that the Web is being watched for violations.  I suppose there are other Federal agencies that watch the Internet for illegal activity in other ares, like Anti-trust or fraud.  Having a presence on the Web is a double-edged sword!  You have to be online to be successful, but it puts you under a microscope at the same time.

12:51pm • #30
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Lane -- Realistically, there's probably no way that any government agency can gather the information they need without the help of the public.  The good thing is that we can inform the consumer who asks us to violate the law that we are bound by law to enforce and report anti-discrimination.  If we share that information with them at the first sign of trouble and they change their attitude, then there's nothing to report.

It took a lot of courage for that First Weber agent in Milwaukee to report a colleague and homeowner recently.  I found that HUD bulletin interesting.  Here's the link again for anyone who missed it in the thread above:

http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/enforcement/silkey-media-advisory.pdf 

1:06pm • #31
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp
James -- I suppose all Federal agencies lack transparency to a degree.  We don't learn much about the inner workings of the FBI or the CIA, for example, until there's controversy that puts them in the spotlight.
1:08pm • #32
OCT
21
2007
865,393 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

Eric, I don't think that HUD needs to cling to the secrecy of the CIA or the FBI in order to operate.  At least not while stating policy.  It would be one thing if you were asking who their plants and undercover folks were.  It is another entirely to not answer questions about specific situations.  It is easy enough (as any lawyer would) to preface an answer with "based on the information as presented, it would suggest that..."  and follow that with "...but, of course there could be other facts or situations not in evidence that would lead to a contradictory decision."

Of course, it is a lot easier to just not answer questions, and try to hide behind liability.   

1:57pm • #33
OCT
22
2007
105,006 Points 6 Featured Posts
Hi Eric, nice post, great content,, I know that HUD sends people around to open houses and floor time agents, I did not think about the internet sites....Food for thought>>Mike Norvell Sr
11:22am • #34
241,923 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Lane -- thank you for your comments

MIke -- Thanks!  I think HUD (like NAR) is beginning to wake up to what's going on within the Web.  it's a reminder that we need to be thinking of best practices and the law whenever we put ourselves before the public.

11:55am • #35
NOV
02
2007
186,670 Points 7 Featured Posts

Eric, outstanding blog. Do you think the number of complaints are rising because reporting is rising, because people in general are more able to recognize and define a "fair housing violation"?

I don't think it too far off in the future that the Real Estate Agent who does not return phone calls may be found in a Fair Housing violation. Several of my past sales have been in picking up where other agents simply did not return calls. I am sure it was only coincidence that the clients I picked up were in protected classes.

11:30pm • #36
242,060 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Suzi, thank you!

I'd like to believe that the number of complaints can be attributed to better reporting.  But I have read that the FBI reports a surge in the number of "hate crimes" across the United States during the past couple of years.  So it's possible that Fair Housing violations are on the rise for other reasons.

 

11:35pm • #37
NOV
03
2007
293,614 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I find it interesting what was said about "non-licensed" people could be guilty.  I have run across more than one mortgage person or other (on A/R and other places) - who have said "Well since I am not a Realtor; let me tell you about crime in that neighborhood", etc....

It is slippery slope indeed...

9:37pm • #38
241,923 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

James, if someone claims they are somehow "exempt" from Fair Housing laws or HUD scrutiny, they are mistaken and ignorant about their duties.  HUD polices everybody, not merely licensees.  That means they have the power to prosecute landlords, homeowners, tenants, mortgage industry people, home stagers, architects and so forth. 

If someone tells you they believe themselves to be exempt from Fair Housing law, have them contact their local HUD office.

9:50pm • #39
NOV
24
2007
565,411 Points 35 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp
James, great post. Click around and reading on the Saturday floor shift. Thanks for your work on this and bringing it to the forum. I seldom see violations, but I am vigilant. It is so important for us to remember the visibility of the forum and the internet. Thanks again for this post.
2:21pm • #40
241,923 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master
Jenean -- Thanks for visiting and commenting!
3:16pm • #41

This blog does not allow anonymous comments

 
Erickodnercrs_headshot Rainmaker_large

Eric Kodner, Wayzata Lakes Realty - Twin Cities, Madeline Island Real Estate

Minnetonka, MN

More about me…

Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Twin Cities Homes

Address: 12500 Marion Ln W, Suite 4217, Minnetonka, MN, 55305

Office Phone: (612) 670-2539

Email Me

351 Old Fort Road, LaPointe, Wisconsin 54850


Overview
Maps
Photos





















$1,799,900
Single Family Home
Main Features
6 Bedrooms
4 Bathrooms
3 Partial Bathrooms
4 Units
Interior: 6416 sqft
Lot: 10.50 acre(s)
Location
351 Old Fort Road
LaPointe, WI 54850
USA

To get updates on open home dates and other property events, please click the "Like" button below:


Eric M Kodner

Eric M Kodner

Madeline Island Realty LLC
(715) 747-6500
emkodner@gmail.com
http://www.madelineislandrealty.com



Listed by: Eric Kodner

Our recent listings
Subscribe to our listing feed
See more LaPointe, WI real estate for sale


Powered By RealBird.com



Locations of visitors to this page


Listings

Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog