Hi folks. Let's talk a little bit about professional courtesy. I hear this term quite a bit on AR and in my business. Usually, it goes something like this:
"The listing agent should have told me he had other offers on the property, as a professional courtesy".
"Even though my buyer's offer was a low ball the listing broker should have gotten back to me before the offer expired, as a professional courtesy."
You get my point. Anyway, let me see if I can shed some light on this professional courtesy "thingie". First, I want to say, that anyone who has ever worked a deal with me will tell you that I am very professional in all that I do. I treat my peers with respect. I am always willing to help "newbies" in anyway I can and if I say I'm going to do something, I do it.
But, and it's a big but, sometimes what you are expecting me to do, as a "professional courtesy", is completely against what my customer/client is telling me to do or not do. Last time I checked, I work for my customer/clients NOT my peers.
My job, as a listing broker, is to look out for my Sellers and do everything I can to get their property sold in a reasonable amount of time and for a reasonable price. Sometimes, that may require my Seller and I to "sit on" your Buyer's offer. We may even choose to ignore it completely. We can do that. We may even use your offer to negotiate a better deal with another Buyer. We can do that too.
And you know what? I don't have to tell you I'm doing it. There is nothing unprofessional about that. Your Buyer is NOT my concern. What may seem like my lack of action or response, from your perspective, may very well be a negotiating strategy from my Seller's perspective. Don't jump to conclusions about my professionalism or lack of.
I completely agree that we should all work together and that we do not have to work in a disrespectful manner. We should be professionals in all we do. If you want to be a professional then please remember who you are working for and who is paying you. Your "professional courtesy" could very well jeopardize your customer/client's position. How professional is that? What say you?
***The video is the property of ROAR! Productions and if you take it TLW will shoot you! I know it has absolutely nothing to do with the post but it's my blog and I like it:)
I totally disagree with you. When a low ball offer comes in and you and your seller decide to sit on it, you are deciding for the buyer that he will not come up to an acceptable offer. I believe you are doing a disservice to your seller...this is not professional.
I always have my sellers counter-offer, no matter how low the offer is. We send a message with our counteroffer, but the counteroffer gives the selling agent leverage with which to bring her buyer up to an acceptable offer.
And you can still use the offer that is on the table as a carrot to bring in better offers from other people.
I think you should rethink the various angles any offer can bring to the table.
Gail, The problem is you are making way too many assumptions in your comment. As a buyers agent you wouldn't have a clue what other offers I have on the table. Remember it's not always about the price. I too almost always recommend to my sellers that we counter BUT sometimes it is not in their best interest to do so. Every deal is different. I actually have no problem with low ball offers but negotiations are between the buyer and the seller it is my sellers choice how to handle it not mine. My job is to give them their options.
Hi Brad, Thanks for stopping by. I've had buyers agents give me their buyers entire history including telling me where to counter because they know their buyer will come up. Now assuming their buyers have told them to say this there is no issue but if they are doing it as a "professional courtesy" well....they are wrong and have just cost their buyer some bucks in order to get a deal.
Bryant.. Well done. We often forget who we work for in the interest of "getting" along. I would rather be respected for what I have done for my clients than what I have done for my peers.
Okay...I was going to chime in that sometimes....people don't read the WHOLE thing and start harping in. Because I thought you already said that....."it's the sellers choice how to handle it...." okay...words a little different...here's yours:
But, and it's a big but, sometimes what you are expecting me to do, as a "professional courtesy", is completely against what my customer/client is telling me to do or not do. Last time I checked, I work for my customer/clients NOT my peers.
In any case, thanks for bringing back the PROfessional video. Is that TLW's tank top that you stretched out with that busty bust?
Hello WooHoo, You like my tank top? I think TLW tie dyed that one about 25 years ago when we were playing around with the boys. 25 years ago I weighed 167!!!! I'm now 265!! It's a gravity thing. By the way our 11 year old grand daughter will be here next week with her family and she will be getting a WooHoo Sally hula skirt package. I hope you don't mind but I know she will LOVE it. Bertha's hula days are over.
Chris, You are correct of course. We do at times cross the line. I've done it and I'm sure we all have at one time or another. It's not intentional, most of the time, but we do get caught up in talking with our peers and things can slip out that we shouldn't have said. When that happens to me I pick up the phone and call my seller and let then know I may have screwed up. Best to own up to it and case it gets back to them.
Good point Karen.
Hey hun, I put this video in here just for you. Hope you like it.
This really needs to be said often. A lot of agents in my area think it is about the comraderie between agents and totally disregard the relationship listing agents have with their clients. I recently had a bidding war on a property, we had an accepted offer, and another buyer came along with a substantionally higher offer. We did go back to the first who didn't budget. Now comes the comment from the selling agent that she hopes I never have an offer on one of her listings, a threat. We did what was in the seller's best interests and she acted like I should be working for her buyer. Instead of stealing the video I would love to borrow the whole post, but I won't. Thanks for saying this and saying it so well.
Yep. Seems to me that if there is an expiration clause in the offer, that pretty much takes care of any responses. If the seller counters, it's going to be known quickly because we present offers and counter offers "as quickly as possible". However, that doesn't apply to an offer with an expiration clause. No response, the offer expires and is dead. Finis.
Unless I'm mistaken, the Code requires that we answer inquiries about other offers. If the question isn't asked, there is no need to track everyone down and announce that there is another offer.
Agents need to do their own job and not expect others to do their work for them.
As for the expiration clause? That's what I call the "cutting your nose off to spite your face clause". Agents use it to try to control the actions of the other party. It doesn't work with me. When I write an offer, my buyers and I continue to look. We don't wait for someone else to make things happen for us. I also have a signed "Cancellation of Offer to Buy. . . . " in my file which I can fax to the listing office if necessary. Don't tell anyone, but, I've been known to write on several homes for out of town buyers.
As for all the talking back and forth? I believe that the less said the better. If something is worthy of comment, it's worthy of being written and signed by a party to the contract. Never did get comfortable with that telephone negotiation stuff.
The exception being bank offers because they control the process.
If your market is as bad as mine, and it seems to be, I would hope that any offer should lead to some negotiation. That is how I advise my clients.
Even though the offer contains an expiration, I would call the other agent. Even if this offer fails, I would like to have them willing to write on this or any other property I have without any attitude on their part.
My commissioner (Arizona) would say reveal the other offers. That is presumed to be in the seller's best interest. How much you reveal would be up to the client.
BB - most, if not all of the time, professional courtesy in the context that you use it here and our care for our clients does not come into what another agent would call conflict. I can't think of when it last actually did. It's been a while since we've had multiple offers on anything, so we haven't been in a situation where we've had to work an offer to leverage another that I can particularly remember.
We recently made three offers at the same time from one Buyer on different houses, all fully disclosed up front as required, and all agents appreciated how we handled it, though they didn't like it much.
Most of the time these days it is both agents working together that brings deals together. Know that's not really what you are talking about here, but client care always trumps other agents wishes every time. If we do that right, and then tell another agent about it thereafter, if necessary and helpful, that always keeps the possibility open for us to work well with each other in the future.
Oh BB.....u dun stirred the pot now.....but again, TRUTH HURTS!!
Equally on the financing side, I only release that which is necessary to satisfy contingencies as I particularly do not need listing agents having privileged knowledge about the buyer of their home.
Lenn, Actually the COE says we CANNOT disclose multiple offers with out our sellers permission. We do have to disclose accepted contracts. You are correct though that one of my sellers options when they receive an offer is to do nothing. They don't have to respond at all. That's rare that my sellers take that route but it is certainly their right to do so. The "time for acceptance" clause in an offer is nothing more than part of the offer. I get offers sometimes that give me 2 hours to get a response form my sellers on a work day no less. It just ain't going to happen that quickly. Especially since they usually come over with have the paper work missing and no pre-approval. However, if the offer is presented properly and my sellers are available I prefer to get deals negotiated quickly.
Jim, Are you saying you have law in Arizona that states you have to reveal multiple offers? How can they pass a law like that. Are you sure? That just doesn't make any sense to me at all. It's the sellers property and they should be able to negotiate the way they choose. Jim I do advise my sellers to counter all offers. And I do normally make a courtesy call to the other agent but there have been times when I was asked not to. My customer/clients instructions trump ride my "professional courtesy". That was the point of this post. Many REALTORS make too many assumptions about what we can and cannot disclose and feel if it's not what they are expecting then we are being unprofessional. And that's just not the case. If an agent chooses not to work with me anymore because of something I withheld, per my sellers instructions, then so be it.
Thanks Miriam, You get the point of this post.
Standard of Practice 1-15
REALTORS®, in response to inquiries from buyers or cooperating brokers shall, with the sellers' approval, disclose the existence of offers on the property. Where disclosure is authorized, REALTORS® shall also disclose whether offers were obtained by the listing licensee, another licensee in the listing firm, or by a cooperating broker. (Adopted 1/03, Amended 1/06))
Standard of Practice 3-6
REALTORS® shall disclose the existence of accepted offers, including offers with unresolved contingencies, to any broker seeking cooperation. (Adopted 5/86, Amended 1/04)
Richard, I've actually had multiple offers several times recently. Don't know how but it happened. They either get nada or they get a feeding frenzy. Sure wish I could figure this market out.
Bill, We can all use a reminder every now and then. I hope all is well with you.
Oops! Hey Mana I missed you up there. Good to see you my friend. Yes buyers certainly believe they own the world right now. Unfortunately they are right!!!
BB - Good reminder that we need to remember who hired us. Although, I do think that in this market, if we get any kind of an offer, we need to try to negotiate to see how we can make it work. Somethings, that just can't happen, but we need to give it our best shot.
BB - You are right on point with this. As a listing broker myself, I can certainly relate. Often times I am asked to do things a certain way by my client and the other side may not like it. I may even prefer to do it another way myself but that is not up to me to decide. They are my clients and I need to respect their wishes.
Bryant - I am glad I read this. I am mainly a buyers agent at this point, although I am building up my listings. I have felt that the listing agent has done a disservice on more than one occasion by sitting on my clients low offer. It's true that I didn't know what else was going on, but I figured we were being used in some way. I guess from the LA's perspective he was doing his job. From my perspective, her was pissing me off. The more I work with listings, the more this perspective will change, I'm sure.
If my offer has expired without any acknowledgement, how does that work in your client's interest? How is your seller harmed by calling me to say, "Thank you for your offer. My client has decided not to act on this offer."
I am assuming that it would be "unprofessional" to use an expired offer as leverage with another purchaser.
Excuse my ignorance, but what does it mean to "sit on an offer." I certainly wouldn't expect a response much before the offer deadline. Where I work, it's no longer an offer after the deadline.
My thoughts are from past experiences since most of my clients are the sellers. All sellers are different...with different agendas...it is their final decision on what they want to do ...and it is not always about the price...it could be the best price with the worst terms to the seller. It's either accepted...rejected or counter offer. You can't force a seller into making a counter offer not matter what the numbers are...you can suggest with your opinion but in the end ...the sellers are the ones who make the final decision. We can only advise them. The buyers agent s do not really know all that goes on being the scenes. It goes on all the time. Agents are usuing other deals to negotiate with other parties. There is nothing written in stone.
Great discussion topic here. Early in my career, I had agents ask me after viewing one of my listings if I would call them if I received offers on such and such a property so they could inform their buyers. No, I could not, if the buyer is not interested in offering on the property now, why would Mr. & Mrs. Buyer be interested later when offers come to the table. How crazy is that? I'm not in the businesss of babysitting their buyer clients. They are representing their clients - so go to work for them!!!
Couldn't agree with you more...Some agents tend to worry about themselves rather than who they are representing. After they deal is over do you tell the other agent why you did or did not take action. That may calm the home front.
BB, great post as usual. You're right about it not always being about the price. In my business dealings, I have rejected an offer because I thought the offerer was a jerk. Yes, I lost a small amount of money by doing it but it was my decision to make, and believe me, it was worth every penny.
John S., Good to see you my friend. I has a seller a couple of years ago that had multiple offers on his property and accepted one for 20k on a $150,000 sale. The buyers were a very young couple with a new baby and the sellers were in their late 70s and did not need the money anyway. They sold to the young couple because they wanted them to live in their house and they liked them. They even offered, with out being asked, to pay all of the young folks closings costs!!! The agent for the other buyer couldn't understand why my seller wouldn't accept their offer since they were willing to exceed any offer on the table. It has nothing to do with money. This buyer was an investor trying to buy a rental.
Brandon, I'm very diplomatic in my dealings with my peers and usually always end up on good terms. Sometimes I may tell them why and sometimes I can't.
Denise, I get that all the time. It's certainly not something I have time to do. I'm with you, if they want to make an offer them make an offer.
Neal, You're right on the money. These are not our decisions to make. There are any times when I don't agree with my sellers decision but that really doesn't matter it's their decision not mine. I think quite a few REALTORS(R) forget that. Negotiations are between the buyer and the seller not the agents.
Norm, I have had sellers completely insulted by an offer and have asked me not to respond. And since that's what they wanted me to do that's what I did. I've also had buyers submit another and better offer after not hearing from us. Silence IS a negotiating technique. The point of this post is not what does or does not work, the point is, it's our customer/clients decision how to handle negotiations. As long as their instructions are legal and ethical then I will carry them out. Even if it's against my advice.
Fran, Our perspectives are definitely different depending on what side of the transaction we are on. And they should be. Things are not always what they seem.
Bill, You get it. I have had times where I strongly disagreed with my seller's tactics only to find out it worked and they were right.
Hi Marlene, In this market I'm just happy to see an offer!!! I always counsel my sellers to counter but again it's not my decision to make.
Bryant - I have one client that is a bankruptcy trustee. HE has given me some very specific instructions so WE follow HIS instructions. In some instances we will reject outright. If the offer does not meet certain criteria, there will be no response. "REASONABLE" has been determined by the client. If the offer is within reason to HIM there will be a counter.
Like you point out, it is about OUR client, not what the buyers agent thinks is right.
Actually, I must not have been clear, I ws referring to "shopping offers" to run up the sales price. Regarding disclosure of multiple offers by the buyer, I was going to get an answer on that this morning anyway, forgot to do so, but I will check tomorrow. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. We have had multiple counter offers from sellers, why not multiple offers from buyers? First to accept wins. One would have to be careful how the offers were worded to prevent buying multiple properties, but I don't think it is against any law or rule.
Ok, I am not going to get into this debate, I just upset someone else, but I do have to say your videos are awesome and keep doing them. They always make a point and if they don't, they are at least entertaining.
Jim, When you do find out your states laws on this come back and let us know. I'm curious now:)
Gary, Glad you like my videos. My blog is a place where you can come and debate and disagree any time you want. I like discussions. It's how we learn. If it helps I'm not always right. Just most of the time :)
Rich, Are you saying it's not your job to make all your competitors feel warm and fluffy? :)
Hello Lisa, Clueless agents? Never see one of those in my area. :)
Proper representation does not include compromising your client's position. As you state you can be professional and still be courteous. We do work for our client which is something every agent should know when they enter the business.
So true, while I don't try to be unfair, the bottom line is that our job is to represent our client's interests and that may mean not always being the nice guy or gal.
Bryant--You are so right with this...Agents and others call asking for information on properties that I have listed that I cannot give out...Will they take less? It is in pending so what did you get? etc. The seller makes all the decisions not me. I cannot as a professional courtesy give out information in conflict with my fiduciary duties.
Also when I do wear the buyers representative's hat, I sometimes will not tell you what I think the home will sell for when the buyer might write an offer. Sometimes the buyer will want a 2nd showing and will want to think about it so I don't run to the phone to let your seller know the status because it has not changed.
If you want professional courtesy, try patience and understanding as you are representing your client.
BB, Arizona doesn't have a law or rule prohibiting buyers making multiple offers. Since I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I am not sure what wording to put into the offer that 1--discloses multiple offers are out there, 2--How to protect the buyer from being obligated to buy more houses than the buyer wanted. Comments anyone?
Re: shopping offers. Seller must give written permission/instruction to do so.
Jim, If your buyer is making offers on multiple properties at the same time, you may suggest submitting then unsigned. Or you could just use a letter of intent. You could even make them subject to final approval from the buyer. Any kind of an out clause would work.
BB: have you had any luck with letters of intent? The few I have seen here are poorly written photocopied pieces of crap, and nobody seems to take them seriously.
I have been reading your posts since before there was an Active Rain. I really feel that training is the answer and it should be tougher for a agent to get a licence. The glut of people with a License is part of the problem, and the Internet marketers are making it worse on consumers, not better. Giving too much information to consumers who don't understand is like buying a book entitled surgery for Dummies. We don't do surgery on ourselves, even to save money, because we are to fearful of not getting it right, and besides it would hurt like crazy.
Real Estate should be the same way, just because there is an information overload available doesn't mean the consumer is protected or Knowledgeable. The same, but worse applies to new agents. My thoughts are that it should be like an apprenticeship program, like carpenters and plumbers go thru. What we do impacts lives, and should not be turned over to someone with fresh ink on the license.
If you want some real changes, then thats what I see should happen. A broker could hire you only if they decided to invest the time into training you hands on, until you passed an actual competency test. Imagine doctors getting their license and starting on real people the next day. I have worked in the insurance field, its very much hands on training, very intense, and then you get placed with an experienced field agent trainer for at least 30 days.
Oh well then, thats enough for now, I will come down and buy you lunch one day while things are tough in Poincianna
Jim, I rarely work with buyers so have only used a letter of intent for some personal purchases. I have received some on my listings though and I agree the presentation is everything. If it was a form letter my seller pretty much ignored them. If they were well presented and had all the pertinent info to make an offer we would certainly look at them and counter back on a contract if it looked interesting.
Brent, There is a fine line indeed and we do not want to cross it at the expense of your customer/client.
;)
Links;)
Archives
Reserved Parking For "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR!
Blog Boy...
Yup. We work for our customers not our peers. But you know that.
You also know that assumptions and the drawing of conclusions are the Momma of all screw ups :)
I think the vid goes great with this post. You're talking about Professionalism. Right? :)
TLW...ROAR!