Home : Blogs : Gary Miljour - Mortgage Lending for Tempe Arizona : Gary Miljour's Blog: Mortgage Lending for Tempe Arizona

GET MOTIVATED? or GET SCAMMED?

Phoenix, Arizona

Today I went to the GET MOTIVATED! event presented by Peter and Tamara Lowe at US Airways Center in downtown Phoenix. This event comes into town about once a year, and the event is your normal inspirational, motivational speaker event to re-energize the batteries. Now, I really enjoy these events, and this year they had some great speakers. The 6 big headliners were Brian Tracy, Suze Orman, Lute Olson, Zig Ziglar, Michael Eisner and Colin Powell. My favorite speaker is still Zig Ziglar, and except for his deteriorating health, he is still such an inspiration to hear him talk and communicate. This man is powerful, and the information received will have a long term impact on my business. All the Key Speakers were great, and the last key Speaker was Colin Powell who is an incredible man and American.

Now I noticed in between these big headliners, they had smaller speakers. These other speakers were also great, but most of them tried to sell you on some system. These systems were not cheap. Now I understand that these events make most of their revenue from bookings these other events and if the coaching is good and helps people, then I am all for that.

Then something happened that I just could not stomach, they had a guy sharing with the group of how you can pay your home off in half the time of a regular mortgage. I knew right there they were pushing the Multilevel Marketing Product called the Money Merge Account.

Let me share what I know about this company, and I will let the links attached support my position that I think this product is dangerous and overpriced. I had the luxury of being invited to a United First Financial Seminar. My mind start thinking how great this would be to benefit my clients. Then they share that their product costs $3,500.00 but not to worry, the cost can be financed into the loan. After this event my friend Christoph Schweiger who attended this seminar with me investigated their program and found another person who offers this same service for $24.99. Attached is the blog he wrote back in July of this year: Accelerated Mortgage Payoff Program: Harj Gill demystifies Mortgage Acceleration with his Speed Equity® System

Also I found other articles written here on Active Rain to also support this position. Hayden Gerson wrote 2 posts about this same thing and he felt the same way I feel. Attached are his 2 posts: Mortgage Acceleration Software is a Waste of Money: The Truth about the "Australian Mortgage Model" and Look what happens when you expose a Multi Level Marketing Company: United First Financial Threats. Now the only thing that scares me about writing this article, is the hate mail that Hayden received for exposing this company.

I personally felt I had a responsibility to inform everyone about the dangers of this product. Last, for the record, I am NOT writing this to condone the principles of this company, primarily just the cost.

I also do not know understand why Peter and Tamara Rowe from GET MOTIVATED would endorse this product, unless they expect their patrons to be scammed.

Posted by Gary Miljour - Mortgage Lending for Tempe Arizona on 10/31/2007 12:08 AM

Comments (29)

mortgage guidance, mortgage news, tempe mortgage lender, mortgage lending advice, arizona news and community

This post has been included in Arizona Information
Post is included in group: Realtors®
Post is included in group: Mortgages
Post is included in group: True Mortgage Professionals
Post is included in group: Arizona Homes
Post is included in group: Almost Anything Goes

29 Comments on GET MOTIVATED? or GET SCAMMED?

OCT

2007

Thanks for the warning

Very well written blog. Be prepared for some guys to send you countless e-mails trying to prove that you are wrong and they are right. More professionals need to stand up to these guys and tell them to take their scam somewhere else.

David- You are welcome

Hayden- I am ready to stand up for what is right. I knew you would like this post.

Gary,

I just wanted to comment on your post. I also felt this offering was to pricey. I really liked the concept, but I didn't see why it cost $3,500. I saw some other companies that were offering similar products and charging anywhere from $24.00 clear up to $8,000 (that is the cost to refi into a first mortgage HELOC that my friend was quoted) that I found through a company called CMG.

After doing considerable research on this subject, I found that there are some significant differences between these programs and the customer support and service they provide (who all claim that they are the best). After I did my research, I came to my own conclusions of who I felt was the best option, and I have included some of the links that my reaserch led me to:

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=slash_mortgage&refpage=issues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OInzS7elbQ

http://www.brokerbanker-digital.com/brokerbanker/2007_vol108/

Here is a more recent one that came up on the internet today:

http://onesharedebt.blogspot.com/2007/10/should-you-pay-off-your-mortgage-faster.html

The 2 main reasons that I found UFirst to be the best possible option for many homeowners is 1. Their customer support center, and 2. The fact that the homeowner does not have to refiance their fixed mortgage into a variable first mortgage to participate in the concept. I understand what it takes to make this concept work in real life and UFirst has over 200 trained client support coaches that service the homeowner for life. Also, The Speed Equity system you have mentioned does not have a customer service center what so ever. After looking closely at UFirst, I have come to my own conclusions that they have already saved homeowners hundreds of millions of dollars in interest, and that is no guess.

Sorry for the long post, but I have also found that there are tens of thousands of homeowners currently using UFirst's service without a single complaint from an "actual" consumer anywhere! I could understand no complainst if this company had "scamed" a few people, but with thousands of homeowners using it across the US, and all I can find is compliments, I have a hard time believing that some of the nay-sayers don't have their own agenda's (not implied toward you what-so-ever).

Thanks!

Jay- I appreciate your comments, and I believe both sides have a right to be heard, however I am not convinced. I am sure this organization means well, but for such a drastic cost in other programs, I cannot justify the $3500.00 cost. I am not supporting one over the other, it just seems pretty expensive.

Also, I am a little bit of a skeptic about your view, since you have 150 points as an AR member and probably just found this article on the web.

Gary,

I respect your comments and view point. I am new to the AR community, but solid integrity is important to me. I wont debate your opinion, all I would say is take an honest look at what this company "actually" provides the homeowner. In the beginning, I pegged this company as being much less than what they actually are. If you would like, schedule a personal tour and detailed introduction from the homeoffice in Utah. I have been through their entire facilities, have seen exactly what they do, and I think you may have a little different view once you look a little closer.

I would be happy to give you the right contact info if you would like to take a personal look at their operation. The service they provide their clients does cost more to operate than just clicking on a software program. The service is what makes a difference between just "selling something" and actually helping the homeowner to gain the maximum advantage. I belive you will see what I did once you look closer.

Please don't take any offence to any of my comments, none was intended.

Thank you

NOV

2007

Scam? I sell the MMA. The tone of Gary's message is one of disdain--complete with URLs for people who have their own interests to look after or own axe to grind. And when someone deigns to question Gary he uses "MLM" epitaphs-as though his commission structure does not include over rides. Do most of the readers have a commission structure that pays the over-riding broker of record?

"Does the MMA work as advertised?" is a question not asked because the answer is clear: yes it does. So, why the whining about the $3500? Is this too much for a product that does exactly what it says it will do: Save 10's and possibly hundreds of thousands of $'s off a mortgage. As one post mentions: this is the free market--decry the cost to be sure, but all so be sure to accurately mention the benefits.

To summarily dismiss is to admit ignorance. You went to a single presentation and disagreed with the price and the marketing structure. Good for you. Please tell the audience how well you're doing with whatever program you're on.

Also please tell us all exactly how the MMA fails in what it promises or hold your water. The self-righteous tone you take is amusing given all the mortgage scams that have really happened--did you don your cape and protect all those clients, too? Tarring a new product and anyone associated with it-a product without a single complaint lodged against--is weak and insipid. But as with all things, time will tell. I'm certainly saving this string and we'll talk again in a year.

this string and we'll talk again in a year.

Jay- Lets just agree that we disagree. Also, thank you for realizing that I am not trying to get a client to buy into any system I am selling. Thanks for you feedback.

Steve- You personally do not know anything about me. I was pointing out to consumers that they have choices. They can pay $3,500.00 for your product or pay about $24.95 for another product with similar benefits. Its just seems that your price is not competitive. When I sell someone a loan product, my fees compared to my competition is very competitive. Now there are lenders who are charging 3 to 4 times of what I charge, and they are called "Predatory Lenders". I agree with letting the consumer make their own decisions. I am all for free enterprise. However, it seems when anyone at United First Financial is debated on their cost structure that you guys get all worked up on this. Also, I just cannot agree with the organization "Get Motivated" for having a group like yours at this event. It quite frankly turned me off.

Gary,

I can respect the fact that we disagree, that is one of the beauties of America. I just wanted to say that selling someone a book for $24.00 vs providing an engineered product and service that holds the clients hand for the life of their mortgage and helps them to maximize their benefits of the concept are two completely different scenerios.

I am sure we can agree that an experienced investment broker can guide the average homeowner on which investments are better than others, vs the homeowner just buying a book for $24.00 and attempting to do it on their own.

Once you take an honest look at what this product and service provide, I am sure that you will see this comparison is extremely accurate.

Thanks again for your time.

Jay Michaelson sells United First Financial products and the links he is providing you are those that are promoting the in my opinion a huge scam called the MMA.

Hayden- Thanks for taking some time to come over here and catch up on the conversation. I do not like to criticize Free Enterprise, but this is very expensive compared to the competitions product. It would be like buying gas. One gas station has gas for $2.75 a gallon, but the guy across the street will sell it for $387.75 a gallon. Oh, but this gas comes with Internet support and a customer support line. I mean if someone wants to pay $387.75 a gallon for gas, be my guest, but do not get upset when a critic comes along and states that he feels the product or service is a scam. This is at least how I see it.

Gary good point. Imagine though if those guys were selling a product called "G.A.S." and in fact is was not really what you call gasoline but "gasoine alternative savings" and it was a link to a website that told you how to get better fuel economy and 8 people would get paid on the sale. Then telling you it was the best investment ever.

NOV

2007

Hayden,

Your comments against UFirst wouldn't have anything to do with having a legal run in of Slander and Defamation with UFirst would they? They also wouldn't have anything to do with you working for a competing company that has charged clients anywhere from $8,000 to $15,000 to refinance into their HELOC, called CMG would they? Please dont deny the truth.

Jay, I am a licensed mortgage broker, and for my job I sell mortgages. I have many options for clients and one of them is CMG, although I have many others that I offer. I would never compare UFirst Financial a competitor of CMG as one is a bank, the other is an overpriced MLM spreadsheet. The fact that you would compare the two just shows your complete ignorance.

If you would compare the amount of money one spends on a refinance to the amount of money spent on your spreadsheet, one would truly understand how overpriced United First Financial is. The amount of hours that goes into a refinance compared to the 2 seconds it takes to allow someone access to the ufirst website would really make your company look worse then it already does. Why don't you tell us a little about your credentials and tell us about any state licensing that you might have.

Jay and Hayden: Look this is how I see it. Some people are going to buy into the UFirst system, plain and simple. If they choose to spend that much money, its really the consumers choice. Jay has made it pretty clear that he believes in his service and cost structure. Hayden I think you and I can agree that we do not agree with the cost structure. Its now up to the consumer to make the choice.

Hayden,

I refuse to "bare my teeth" with you simply because you are trying to tear down UFirst.

I have included one of your previous paragraphs regarding how much "time you spend" with your clients vs how much UFirst does:

"If you would compare the amount of money one spends on a refinance to the amount of money spent on your spreadsheet, one would truly understand how overpriced United First Financial is. The amount of hours that goes into a refinance compared to the 2 seconds it takes to allow someone access to the ufirst website would really make your company look worse then it already does. Why don't you tell us a little about your credentials and tell us about any state licensing that you might have."

How much time would you say that you spend on an average person's refinance? 3, 4, 5, 10 hours? How much time would you say that you spend helping that person after the loan is done to help them save the maximum amount of money under your "program".

Now, how long does UFirst help their clients after they are on their program? The answer is for the life of their loan, at no additional costs. Coaching, questions, and lifetime version upgrades. Then they offer coaching, and questions for each new version. They continue to follow up with their clients on a regular basis to help insure that they are gaining the greatest possible advantage. They point out different steps that can help on an individual basis. Sounds like just a little more time than the "2 seconds" that you have implied. And no, I would not compare CMG as a true competitor, seeing as though the CMG program has far more risk to it. Taking people out of a fixed rate mortgage and putting them into a monthly variable HELOC on their entire mortgage is an Apple to Orange comparison, and it does not justify $8,000 to $15,000 in closing costs.

Your not talking to a new "spring chicken". I have been in the mortgage industry for over 13 years, and in the financial services industry many years before that. I have read your other hate blogs against UFirst and it is obvious what you are trying to do. Stating your Slander as "Opinion" does not go a long way with your previous legal situation with UFirst.

Jay, you have no idea how long the average loan officer or myself spend with clients after a loan closes.

"Now, how long does UFirst help their clients after they are on their program? The answer is for the life of their loan, at no additional costs. Coaching, questions, and lifetime version upgrades. Then they offer coaching, and questions for each new version. They continue to follow up with their clients on a regular basis to help insure that they are gaining the greatest possible advantage. They point out different steps that can help on an individual basis. Sounds like just a little more time than the "2 seconds" that you have implied. And no, I would not compare CMG as a true competitor, seeing as though the CMG program has far more risk to it. Taking people out of a fixed rate mortgage and putting them into a monthly variable HELOC on their entire mortgage is an Apple to Orange comparison, and it does not justify $8,000 to $15,000 in closing costs."

1. Do you personally do all of this after sales "customer service" or does United First? What would happen if they go out of business?

2. CMG has a fixed rate option where the rate can not go up, but if the rates drop then they get the lower rates. All of the clients that I have sold the CMG product to have enjoyed a 1% drop in their rate since due to the Libor index going down. Should it climb up, they are covered. My average client who has closed on that loan is under 5.5% right now. I am not sure of any heloc with a rate near that.

3. Can you tell me where you came up with the $8,000 $15,000 in closing costs number? My average client is paying anywhere from $2,000-$5,000 in fees for this mortgage, including third party costs such as escrow and title. I would love for you to add up the $3500 the clients pay for Ufirst plus the cost of a Heloc. Any day of the week Ufirst is more expensive, and remember that HELOCS are adjustable typically with no rate cap.

You claim to have been in the mortgage business for over 13 years yet I see no record of you having a license in California the state you claim that you reside in. In regards to a "legal situation" I have no idea what you are talking about.

NOV

2007

Boys- I will let you 2 fight it out and the last man standing wins. You already know my opinion.

Hayden,

I will be happy to answer your questions point by point:

"1. Do you personally do all of this after sales "customer service" or does United First? What would happen if they go out of business?"

I provide a lot of the after sale customer service to my clients, but UFirst has a large client support super center set up to specifically service my client. From coaching, answering questions and training on bigger and better versions of the user system, they help to see the client through to the best possible outcome until the mortgage is paid off in full, at no additional charges. So, if it's me personally and/or UFirst's client center, the client gets the best coaching possible under this concept. If UFirst goes out of business, the clients user site stays up, and the client gets a back up copy of thier software in a downloadable format and on CD. The client also has access to profesionally recorded training videos and learning tools. These are all of the same things I included in my due dilligence when I took an "honest" look at the company.

"2. CMG has a fixed rate option where the rate can not go up, but if the rates drop then they get the lower rates. All of the clients that I have sold the CMG product to have enjoyed a 1% drop in their rate since due to the Libor index going down. Should it climb up, they are covered. My average client who has closed on that loan is under 5.5% right now. I am not sure of any heloc with a rate near that."

In the above paragraph, are you talking about the rate the client gets before or after they buy it down? Are you talking about 7.75% without any rebate, 8.25% with 1 point, or are you talking about 6.5% after the client has paid thousands to buy the rate down?

"3. Can you tell me where you came up with the $8,000 $15,000 in closing costs number? My average client is paying anywhere from $2,000-$5,000 in fees for this mortgage, including third party costs such as escrow and title. I would love for you to add up the $3500 the clients pay for Ufirst plus the cost of a Heloc. Any day of the week Ufirst is more expensive, and remember that HELOCS are adjustable typically with no rate cap."

I am not saying that "you" charge clients $8k to $15k, I am saying that I have heard from CMG clients that that is how much they have been charged. You say that UFirst is more expensive due to their fee plus Heloc closing costs? What Heloc closing costs? Homeowners are able to get Heloc's from most banks with no closing costs. Also, with the secondary MMA Heloc system, it does not matter if rates go up on the Heloc because there is never enough owing on the Heloc to matter. You can go from 9% to 19% and it only adds a few months to the homeowners total pay off time. But, most of the Heloc programs that these homeowners get on do have a rate cap of around 12%. Regardless, it makes virtually no difference in the homeowners payoff time, and I think you already knew that.

"You claim to have been in the mortgage business for over 13 years yet I see no record of you having a license in California the state you claim that you reside in. In regards to a "legal situation" I have no idea what you are talking about."

I have been in the mortgage industry for over 13 years, ask me any mortgage related question you would like. Dont worry about my license, that is information I choose not to go over with a person with a certain history of Slander and Defamation. I guess that answers your question of "In regards to a "legal situation" I have no idea what your are talking about". -Sure you do, you just choose to play dumb rather than owning up to it.

Bottom line, I feel that CMG's product does have it's place for the right homeowner in the right situation. I belive that CMG has integrity and believes in what they are doing, and they are doing a great job for many people. I just dont have much respect for a certain CMG rep spewing venom in a dirty attempt to try and tear down someone he views as a competitor.

All I can say is that I do like CMG, and I respect their "professional" agents.

Thank you for your time.

Jay what is a "cmg agent" or "cmg rep" I would assume you would realize that a MORTGAGE BROKER works with MANY BANKS, I work with about 30. I broker MONEY while you broker MLM WEBSITE ACCESS? I will let you hide behind a profile with a fake name, a no picture, and no phone number. It is obvious you are providing fake information, what do you have to hide?

Please go ahead and present some documentation regarding this "legal situation" you keep talking about. I am waiting, I am not playing dumb, rather I have no idea what you are talking about, a little proof would go a long way. I am not going to go over rates to someone who can not realize that the par rate of the CMG HOA is well below the average 30 year fixed rate. Your understanding of how much a customer is charged with the HOA is based on how many so CMG clients? Would you care to tell me a name of one or two of them? Since I can easily call up Chris M George (the owner of CMG) and verify these names are really clients. Your numbers are off just like your thinking. I am not going to respond to you unless you start providing some proof of what you are talking about as of now you are a trolling.

NOV

2007

Hayden,

Please dont misunderstand me, I dont care if you "respond" or not.

I dont understand why, but you keep trying to rub it in my face that you are a loan officer. I am also a loan officer and a PLM. I can broker loans to over 50 lenders in all 50 states, SO WHAT. That doesn't make me any better than you, and it doesn't make you any better than anyone else.

Are you actually asking me to list the names of the people that have come to me and complained about the fees that they were charged by a CMG agent, on the interent? As a licensed loan officer I am sure that you know what a "Privacy Policey" is, and the obligation you are under with it. You know, it's that form that you send out with the 1003, the TIL, GFE etc. etc. etc.

If you would just slow down for about 2 minutes, you may find that a lot of your clients that dont qualify for the HOA, may actually benefit from this other program. If it pays the homeowner off in the same time or less, then I think they may actually thank you. With tens of thousands of satisfied clients currently using this service across the US, I think your pretty safe trying 1 or 2 clients out on it to see how they like it. Over 10,000 loan officers across the US are helping their clients with this program.

It's been great chatting, I wish you success.

HI Guys,

Hope I am not interfering too much, but in reading this post has anyone considered that it is a Network Marketing Company..the best way to move good and services. There are commissions paid to their reps....hence the probable cost set for the product. A network marketing company is illegal and a SCAM if there is no product or service involved, and people are being paid for bringing in reps/agents and not for selling a product or service. See the Attorney Genera's criteria. I haven't checked this company out but this might help to clarify the situation.

I hope I helped

Anne

Anne,

Thank you for your comment. There is NO comission paid out with this company for recruiting anyone. The only time a comission is paid out is when a sale of the product is made. No other comissions or bonuses are paid out.

Thanks.

Anne,

Nobody is stating that the sevice is illegal. I called it a scam based on its price and its just my opinion. Thats all. I am also not endorsing one product over another, I just want all consumers to know that they have options in the cost. Thanks for your comment.

From what I understand -it is just a mathmatical frmula....

Lewis- You are 100% correct its just a mathematical formula, and you can pay $3,500.00 for that information or $24.95 depending on what the consumer perceives as value.

NOV

2007

Gary, very good point.

APR

2008

ALL of these accelerated mortgage payment systems are at worst fraud or at best a way for someone else to make money selling what should be obvious: the only way to pay off your mortgage faster is to a) pay additional principal as often as you can and/or b)reduce your interest rate (which should be a FIXED rate in my opinion - it's just too risky to have an adjustable rate mortgage if you have to watch your budget).

No matter how much complicated piping you build around that problem the solution DOES NOT CHANGE! Get a part time job and 100% dedicate it's take home pay to paying off your mortgage if that is your #1 concern.

Oh and by way - you would have paid of your mortgage sooner if you had paid the $25 (or however much is charged) to your mortgage principal INSTEAD of to some opportunistic builder and purveyor of complicated piping that he hopes will obscure the obvious solution sufficiently to reduce your finances to his benefit.

Leave a response…

Name:

Email:
(optional)

Comment:

What does the graphic say?