Kathy, this is an excellent post and a subject that can never be discussed too often.  We're fortunate in the United States that we seem to be able to deal with prejudice fairly well.  The "melting pot" has helped to do away with much of the friction between ethnic groups in this country.  That doesn't mean prejudice doesn't exist here, though. 

The European Union has done a pretty remarkable job of pulling together a lot of nations with differing goals, ethnic backgrounds and traditions.  Ethnic violence is certainly a setback to that achievement.

Kathy, These type of problems unfortunately happen everywhere.  I am glad we have laws that protect certain classes of citizens from our ignorant.  This is what makes the United States so awesome. 

Eric-Thanks.  I lived in Romania for 4 years, and I remember most of my clients were Roma, and the Romanians are very very prejudiced against them.....but then again even here when I still had my address there my web host denied my payment and said it was because there was too much fraud from that country.

Yes, the EU has done a good job, but they weren't overly thrilled with the last countries to join, and have now made it harder for the other few that are still trying to comply for admission.  and this was before yesterdays fiasco.

Gary- Amen Gary, amen......we should all be very thankful we have our protected class laws.

I must point out that the military is not an ethnic group so it is incorrect that the church protesting military funerals is prejudiced against an ethnic group.  Having said that, I'm ashamed to read of a church of all places  having any prejudice.  I would encourage it's members to leave it immediately.  How shameful!

Kathy -like I said before: you read a person's blog -you pretty soon know important things about the person. Your post is the best example. I don't need much more to know that you are person of high moral standing -speaking up against bigotry and oppression like you did.

I lived the life of the oppressed people - there are few things worst. I am forever grateful to this country for allowing me to escape. This country is not some person granting immigration visas. To me this country - is people like you. If it's sounds too patriotic- it is.

Hi Kathy,
First off let me say, I think it is sad we need "laws" to dictate that we treat people fairly and without prejudice.  God's law commands us to do that.  Of course that applies to many of our "laws".  What I am saying is that it is not the legal system that causes me to treat people fairly and without prejudice.  But unfortunately everyone does not abide by God's laws so I am glad the law exists.  I am proud and thankful to be an American. 

Tchaka- I might not have been clear, as I didn't want to write a "book" on the church....but that particular "Church" wasn't protesting an ethnic group...they were protesting at Military Funerals for what they perceived was Punishment to the Soldiers....they used this protesting to spew hate messages against a protected class, and stating that the soldiers were thusfore punished. Old world tactics for sure.

Fortunately or unfortunately (as in this case) one of the rights of being an American is we  can have our own beliefs, and can form a "Church" with certain protections granted by our Constitution.  Personally I think some people have gone way too far in this....but see, I am allowed to have my opinion.

Faina-I understand perfectly......I know many people that have tried to "escape" but couldn't......and I know many that have.  If you really want to see my blood boil just let me get started on people that hate others for Political, Religious, or any other reason......

I lived in a "red zone" for almost 4 years, and was just amazed....I learned more about being an American and our freedoms from the people of Romania than I ever did here.  It is only when you have been oppressed that you appreciate what so many of us take for granted.  And no, your comment didn't sound too patriotic.....it sounded exactly as I would have thought you would say.  Thank you, and you do know exactly what happens when a Government does what Italy is doing today......and many other countries as well.

Kathy, I think Predudice is still very much here in the United States and I'm sorry to have to say that. I see it in all areas including peoples lifestyles and I find it very sad.  I know other areas are terribly oppressed and thankfully haven't had any experiences like some but we are all PEOPLE; having a whole country pay for the mistakes of a few IS awful, but that's they way I've seen it work, unfortunately.

Cynthia- I couldn't agree more.....a collective consciouswould indeed be better than needing a law, but unfortunately many don't abide by moral values, therefore we need laws.  Heck, look at our small community here....look at all the drama over gaming, points, profiles, etc.  and this community is a tiny speck in the world of humanity.

I also remember being in situations where being an American wasn't very easy (overseas).  There were many times I felt the weight of the country on my shoulders when I was repeatedly questioned on why we did x or x......

I remember the fear....and actually stating I was a German or a Canadian as it wasn't safe to be American. And I remember being kicked out of Church because the Priest didn't like the Roma kids (and the others) we worked with, and didn't want them in "their" church.

And I remember when the current Administration took over, the embarrassment of trying to explain that no, not all of us were that ignorant, nor did we all do x or x.........you just can't judge  a whole people by the actions of a few.

Carole-Yes Prejudice is indeed alive and well here....Monika's story was just one example.....I had a man come into my office yesterday and I had to ask him to leave.  The hate that was coming out of his mouth floored me.....not so much that he had it, but that in today's world that he still felt it OK to say it.

Every year people say they want Peace in the World......well, it all starts within.....

The world is a beautiful place because of its diversity in cultures and customs.   I wouldn't have it any other way.    I am not one to sit by silently and listen to people generalize a group of people for one thing or another.     Hence my father calling me "big mouth".

I will never change - you can count on me to point out the people being "ugly" and bringing it to their attention.

Great post..... 

Desiree- More "big mouths" to say this is BS is always welcome in my book :) :)  Thanks.....oh, and my big mouth is alive and well here in California....:)  I just prefer to say it is Honest Talkin'

Kathy -- Very well said by you -- "Every year people say they want Peace in the World......well, it all starts within....."

Here's to the big mouths --kudos to you and Desiree!

Ahhh...Hawaii....rich in so many ethnicities and cultures... the prejudice is still prevalent worldwide and no getting away from it. If it's one thing that stands out here.....

You said, "you just can't judge  a whole people by the actions of a few". 

and I am in total agreement....."one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch".....  :)

Kathy - I work with a refugee organization and the horror stories that some of them have to tell really make you appreciate the freedoms we enjoy here in North America. As Nov 11 rolls around we all need to remember those who lost their lives so we can enjoy the rights and freedoms we have today.

Lest We Forget! The Canada we have today is a gift from those who have gone before us.

Kathy - Yes we had little misunderstanding, but what you're saying is clear to me now.  After posting last night I did Google this and found out that the group in question is anti-gay and not only is that a prejudice against a protected class but they are foolish enough to allege that September 11th happened because it's God's way of punishing the US for allowing homosexuals to exist.  They cherish the death of soldiers as further punishment of our pro-gay stance.  

I'm not really sure what to call these people as "ignorant" doesn't accurately describe them.  "Loony" might be best.  One day a veteran who is on edge might go over and it won't be pretty.

Wow, there are some concerning things happening in this world!

Kathy - It's amazing that this stuff goes on and will probably continue to go on for years.  It's ridiculous, ignorant, unethical, foolish, absurd, and a whole lot of other adjectives that are less than flattering.  And a Church protesting a Military Funeral, if I was a part of that Congregation....I wouldn't let the door hit me on the behind on the way out.....

Aziz- thank you.....acceptance of diversity should always be more than just empty words :) :)

Sally- The Islands really are a good example of diversity, and now especially with the Internet more and more people are getting information....and I hope this helps all of us, everywhere, be more tolerant.

Kathy C.-  Ahh you are Canadian....thank you to all Canadians for being so liked in the world, saved my butt a few times, when I claimed to be a Canadian after America bombed Pristina......(the Kosov war).  And I commend you for working with refugees, I've met many and the stories are tragic at best.

Tkaka-You just showed true character ( in my book)......you went and got the information yourself. That is one true way of being "open" and not just allowing what someone says to control your thinking........and for the Roma, it has always been that prejudice....because people listen to the stories, and don't think for themselves.  that is what the Peace Corps was all about....learning, sharing, and understanding of differences, but appreciating the similarities.

Rey- Yes there are....and with the expansion of the EU and what Russia is doing right this minute we need to pay attention as it affects all of us in one way or another. As a Lender the dollar overseas has profound effects on all of us. 

Jason-Excellent list of adjectives....and add every other one you can think of that is negative to that list :)  Oh, and don't worry about "That" church door....I doubt you would have ever graced it with your presence anyway. Tkaka stated it best "Looney"..... that ole' Hell and Damnation stuff that keeps hate alive.

Boy, am I going to wade in here...

Prejudice is acceptable and even positive.  I think that what you want to argue against is bigotry.  They are quite different.  Bigotry is actual hate or distaste for someone based on them being in a particular group.  Prejudice is looking at a person or situation and pre-judging them or it.  

It is neutral.  I can look at a situation and see it as positive prior to experiencing it.  Or, I can just as easily look at a person and determine that I don't want to do business with them or spend my time with them.  If I give a questionnaire to a seller, and they tell me that they don't NEED to move, but are willing to if someone will pay their price, I may pre-judge that I don't want to waste my time or marketing dollars on doing business with them.  I might be right, or I might be wrong.  If I see a roller coaster that looks fun, I am pre-judging that it might be something I want to do. 

You might think it is splitting hairs, but words can have meanings beyond what we immediately think of.  I know that your heart is in the right place, but I think that bigotry was the word you were looking for.   

Lane- Thank you very much and you are correct in that the words do matter......it was even mentioned above but I have never used that word, and had not even thought of the difference.  Thanks for the clarification....

Kathy - Thanks for the compliment.  I have never allowed anyone to control what I think....I question just about everything (to the point where I can be annoying).  Most importantly, I enjoy learning and I'll take the time to take in other people's thoughts then formulate my own assessment.

If intolerant, venom-spewing homophobes hiding behind the guise of a church constitute a 'particular group', then I'm a bigot for having a great distaste for them.  >:-)

Great Post Kathy - Your worldly experience give you a global perspective!

I learned along time ago - the color of Blood For everyone is RED ( taking care of all patients who needed my help as an RN - regardless)

The only prejudice that should exist in Real Estate is GREEN (financial ability)!

Have a great weekend - your vacation is right around the corner :)

Sincerely,

Grace Safrin 

Tchaka- The compliment was justified.....I have seen what happens when people just blindly follow, and do not question.  After the fall of communism the first thing so many wanted was "Information".......look at the countries that still control what information people are allowed. We just don't realize how this small basic task of going to "Google" is denied to others.

Now to your tirade on that "Church"...let's not give them any fuel for their own fires of hate........

Grace- Indeed the color for all our blood is Red,and the color of money is whatever it is for our Market :)   One of my recent escrows was in Euros, and they are quite colorful :) :)  But your message is the whole basis of our Fair Housing Laws.....are they qualified financially should, and has to be the only criteria for Real Estate.

Oh, and yes....three weeks and I am off to Hawaii.....you have a good memory :)

Ahem, it's Tchaka.  I'm prejudiced (but not bigoted) against those who misspell my name!  I think i'm having too much fun with this.  Hahahaha!

Enjoy your trip to HI!  I've been there several times and loved every visit.

Tchaka-you're a good sport :) LOL..  sorry about that...I have fixed the spelling :) :)  OK, now for my own edification how do you pronounce your name.....I have to do everything phonetically..

Oh, I plan to enjoy my trip, am going with my Daughter and 5 Grandkids.....to a new Island this time. Thanks.

  Everyone:  go read this and then tell me that hating a whole group of people is OK:

 What does being an American have to do with real estate? 

BTW, Kathy, the group of "church people" that inspired this post are despicable.  The lawsuit is a symbolic victory, since the court can't bankrupt the "leader" of these schmucks.  on another board I am a participant in, we determined that the guy that won this lawsuit should help bankroll future lawsuits.  While the court can't take away the pastor's home, cars and other belongings (reputed to be over $1m), his lawyers can and will liquidate him to defend him.  

It would be a fun sort of justice for the guy to be bled dry by his own lawyers.   

Kathy....You said "you just can't judge  a whole people by the actions of a few" I agree wholeheartedly with you.

While I saw hatred 1st hand from that group from Kansas, saw that they hated all of us and that they did not care who they hurt  as long as they got their hateful vile message out...I realize that I can't treat everyone from Kansas with distaste. It is not the fault of everyone in Kansas that these creeps... that this church is allowed to function.

Romania...Germany...you name it...we can't be held accountable for a few. Last I looked we all bleed the same color.

Lane-Your comment really goes into Monika's Post....that is the kind of follow-up that her post should have.  I apologize for not leaving a link...me, I am concerned with the experiences of Faina...see link above, and all the people that this happens to on a daily basis, whether overseas or here. 

 Monika's post isn't about everyone in Kansas (see her comment above) while the events in this Post are against a whole Country....a whole ethnic group.

Monika- Amen to that.....and I have now included a link to your Post....sorry guess I should have put it earlier.  See my comment to Lane above.

"Romania...Germany...you name it...we can't be held accountable for a few. Last I looked we all bleed the same color."  I hope everyone has  read Faina's post...link above......this is what this is all about....  thank you....

Kathy...although I agree the intolerance and violence taking place in Europe right now is totally unacceptable...we cannot absolve ourselves from like behavior though it be to a lessor degree!

What about the hate crimes towards Arabs and Muslims after 911...and the remnants of that today. The intolerance against Mexicans...because they "might be "illegal. The wave of homophobia that has taken over our country and the class gap that widens on a daily basis. The continued "silent" but tangible race discrimination!

 Are we just more subtle?

I fear we have a long way to go....

Joan-what you say are indeed problems.....  I do think we are "more subtle" and also that we have our laws for a reason, obviously because people are still discriminating, hating, and profiling.  That is worldwide.....but to my knowledge we do not say people from another country cannot travel here, with proper documentation, and proper visas.  Yes, visas are limited after a certain amount are issued...but that is a different story.

Now to illegals....My Degree is in Administration of Justice, and the person that is here "illegally" has broken the law; which fits the premise of this post.....do not discriminate against a whole group, because of the behaviors of a few.

What a powerful post! This topic is close to my heart as well.  I can read from the passion in your words even before I read the comments that you knew of which you wrote through personal experiences.  I have as well and spent many years on a Fair Housing Council board trying to fight these very issues.  Thanks for this truly powerful message.

Diane- After spending years myself tyring to help right the wrongs I know it can be very emotionally draining.  Fair Housing......some people just don't care, and that is the saddest part of all.  Thank you for the time and effort you give to make sure everyone is treated fairly!!!!

Prejuduce is an ulgy thing and after reading Faina's blog I am sitting here with tears running down my face. I am so lucky to be in American and choose and accomplish whatever I want. Sometimes we all can take this for granite. THank you Kathy for the moving story.

Vickie-Faina's story is very moving.....I too cried...so many people I have worked with over the years have similar stories, and no matter how many times I hear them, I am always moved.  It wasn't until 1997 when I lived in a former communist country that I really saw first hand the type of bigotry/discrimination that Faina experienced.

We are indeed so lucky here, even when we have nothing, we have more than so many. Thank you for reading and reading Faina's post.

Thanks Kathy for adding the link. This is a powerful post as is  What does being an American have to do with real estate?

Excellent posts!

Monika- Thanks, and thanks for being you.....

Kathy - It breaks my heart to see the injustice that humans inflict on one another. I don't believe prejudice is EVER acceptable.

Tom- Very simply, I too believe that Prejudice is not justifiable.......although many try to justify it.