Special offer

FHA: Abandoned Fuel Oil Tanks-"The Green Monster"

By
Real Estate Appraiser with Michael S. Bolton,Inc.

The Green Monster

When I was appraising a house the other day I came across this fuel oil tank in the basement, which is slightly uncommon given where the house is located. I asked the homeowner about it, in which she replied, "You mean that dirty old Green Monster in the basement, we quit using that years ago."

So now it's gone from being just a fuel oil tank, to an abandoned fuel oil tank. So what is the appraiser going to do, well I'm glad you asked.

The MN State Department of Public Safety (State Fire Marshall) does have very specific guidelines for abandoned fuel oil tanks:

  • The tank has to be completely drained.
  • It has to be completely disconnected.
  • Residential heating oil tanks don't need to be filled with an inert material, however, they do have to be permanently capped to prevent filling.

This is a truncated description, please see the following link for a complete set of guidelines.

So what does FHA have to say?  Well HUD's handbook doesn't have any specific guidelines for abandoned home heating fuel oil tanks (see this link for HUD's guidelines) . So it's going to come down to being a safety issue, does the appraiser feel that this may be of some safety concern. It's very hard to argue that having an abandoned fuel oil tank in someones basement  isn't a safety issue. Most of the time HUD has the appraiser refer to the state or local municipality for guidance. In nearly all instances when I've come across this, which isn't very frequent, I've conditioned the appraisal stating that the abandoned fuel oil tank be sealed or removed in accordance with state and local guidelines. Always bear in mind that the underwriter does have the final say, but no one is going to want to be responsible if something bad were to happen-like blowup!

Posted by

 

If you are a real estate professional, mortgage consultant or real estate attorney please subscribe to my blog to get news and updates on residental appraisals, estate planning and tax changes:

subscribe to real estate appraisal blog

       

If you have any questions, or Minnesota real estate appraisal needs (divorce, bankruptcy, tax appeal, or estate planning) please contact Michael at 612.599-2581, or use the form on the contact page.

Comments (39)

Doug Bullwinkel
E Mortgage Capital, Inc. NMLS 1416824 - Roseville, CA
Mortgage Loan Officer NMLS #281609

I haven't had to deal with any of these so far in California.  How would you get something this big out of the basement?

Nov 17, 2011 06:23 PM
Brian Schulman
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage, Lancaster PA - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster County PA RealEstate Expert 717-951-5552

Good advice, Michael.  In our area, the Green Monsters are mostly dark red.

Nov 17, 2011 09:21 PM
Brian Schulman
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage, Lancaster PA - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster County PA RealEstate Expert 717-951-5552

In answer to Doug #24, sometimes fuel tanks have to be cleaned out and cut up to be removed.

Nov 17, 2011 09:23 PM
Michael S. Bolton
Michael S. Bolton,Inc. - Zimmerman, MN
MN Appraiser

Lloyd-That's why when I do an appraisal with a fuel oil tank I collect my fee upfront.

Reuben-Thanks for the info, good to know.

Patricia-I would think it would be costly to have to remove a leaking underground storage tank.

Dale-You'll never know when one is going to show up when you least expect it, now you'll know what to do, especially with everyone's comments about underground tanks.

Marge-We have a lot of propane tanks in our outlying areas, but I've never come across a buried propane tank-interesting.

Ross-I think when there inside most people don't want to spend the money to have them removed until they have to.

Rosalie-It would probably be a could idea to have it removed first-then you don't have to deal with the objection.

Tom-You're welcome.

Doug-Like Brian stated in #26, my question is how much does it cost? It can't be cheap.

Brian-Thanks for your input, very much appreciated.

 

Everyone have an awesome day!

 

 

Nov 17, 2011 10:00 PM
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

This is good information for consumers looking to buy a home with an abandoned oil tank.

Nov 17, 2011 10:49 PM
Keith Lawrence
Christie's International - Mahwah, NJ
ABR, SFR

At least the tank was in the basement and not underground.  I am surprised that the oil company supply the fuel did not recommend removing the tank when they converted.

 

I would have done it just to get the space in the basement.

Nov 17, 2011 10:53 PM
Eileen Hsu
Douglas Elliman Real Estate - Manhattan, NY
LICENSED REAL ESTATE SALESPERSON

I would think that having the tank above ground sure makes everything a lot easier to determine the structural integrity of the tank. 

Nov 17, 2011 11:22 PM
Jeff Pearl
RE/MAX Distinctive / LIC in VA - Lovettsville, VA
Full Service Full Time Realtor

So ridiculous. For one, it doesn't have to be declared " abandoned". They could just keep it for emergency storage, or in case they ever install a new oil furnace. 2). The dumbest thing you can do is permanently cap it. That's just creating a potential explosion in case of house fire for example. (3) It's really none of the appraisers business if I have a oil tank in my basement that I'm currently not using. It has nothing to do with the value of the house. (4) Same goes for underwriter. If you want to get rid of one, just call your local fuel oil company and many time they will remove it and dispose of it properly in need be.

Nov 17, 2011 11:48 PM
Susan Jackson
America's Network Realty Group, Inc - Sandy Springs, GA

I can just imagine those that are buried can cause a nightmare, for if they were buried and leaking how would you know.

 

Nov 18, 2011 12:07 AM
Michael S. Bolton
Michael S. Bolton,Inc. - Zimmerman, MN
MN Appraiser

Gita-Thanks for the comment.

Keith-I think many times people convert over to a natural gas furnace, and just don't want to deal with in until they have to.

Eileen-From everyone's input your right, underground tanks seem to be a big hassle.

Susan-A leaking tank sounds like an environmental disaster, and expensive.

Jeff-1.) In MN there are specific guidelines for when a fuel oil tank is considered abandoned, the attached link gives the details. 2.) I have no idea if capping an abandoned fuel oil tank will cause them to blow-up, my guess is if they follow the state fire marshal guidelines it would be fine. 3.) You're right, abandoned fuel oil tanks have nothing to do with value, I never said it did. Appraiser's are the eyes and ears for the mortgage company, lender, investor, and/or the GSE's. If a buyer wants FHA financing then the property has to meet FHA's health and safety guidelines. My goal with this post, and others like it, is to educate those in the real estate business to potential issues, so they don't become last minute problems or deal breakers after the appraisal is completed. Your input is appreciated.

Have an awesome day!

 

Nov 18, 2011 12:47 AM
Michael Setunsky
Woodbridge, VA
Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA

Michael, this is good information pointing out there may be a potential problem for getting the loan for the buyer. Thanks.

Nov 18, 2011 01:00 AM
Scott Godzyk
Godzyk Real Estate Services - Manchester, NH
One of the Manchester NH's area Leading Agents

Here in New Hampshire the above ground ones are much easier to deal with. The most important things are it is empty and is capped so it can not be filled from the exterior or interior. It is then often checked for leaks, i fno leaks it can stay as is, if it has leaks, it should be removed. I am more scared of the under ground takes.

Nov 18, 2011 01:21 AM
Lindsey Hasford
Edina Realty - Elk River, MN
Bringing you home...

Yup. That's a pretty big green monster. I've seen a few of those over time.... glad that as an appraiser you are doing your job!

Nov 18, 2011 01:57 AM
Michael S. Bolton
Michael S. Bolton,Inc. - Zimmerman, MN
MN Appraiser

Michael-Thanks for the comment.

Scott-Thanks for the info. I agree, the buried ones offer more of an unknown.

Lindsey-Thanks for stopping by and the kind comment.

 

Have a great day!

Nov 18, 2011 02:32 AM
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
Real Estate Broker Retired

I've never seen one 'first hand' above ground. I've seen where they've been in basements. As the others say, I'm worried about the ones buried outside close to the house.

Nov 18, 2011 09:45 AM
Shar Sitter
Rooms With Style - Minneapolis, MN
Home Staging and Redesign Minneapolis/ St. Paul, M

We had one of those in our home in ND and my Dad hauled heating fuel when I was little as  side job. I didn't really think about what happens to them when homes are converted. Yikes. Congrats on the feature!!

Nov 18, 2011 09:49 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I run across the buried variety in VA from time to time and every so often a seller, with a heat pump, doesn't realize they have one in the yard!  "Oh, that's what those pipes are in the marigolds!"

No kidding...

Nov 18, 2011 07:34 PM
Chuck Carstensen
RE/MAX Results - Elk River, MN
Minnesota/Wisconsin Real Estate Expert

I want to be the first and last to comment on your post Michael!!!  Congrats it again!  Keep cranking them out.

Nov 19, 2011 02:35 AM
Michael S. Bolton
Michael S. Bolton,Inc. - Zimmerman, MN
MN Appraiser

Lyn-Let's hope that you don't run into one of the those "Green Monsters" in some dark, dirty, cluttered basement, you'll never know what might happen. :)

Shar-Thanks!!!!!

Jay you're a hoot! Where did they think their heating oil was coming from?

Chuck-I think with this reply, I for once will get the last word. Thanks for your support, very much appreciated!

 

Nov 19, 2011 02:56 AM
Mike Young
203kOnLine.com, covering the USA - Stallings, NC
FHA 203k Consultant 916-758-1809

I used to do allot of appraisals for a large Bank in CA and once they were about to make a loan on a commercial/industrial site that came with an appraisal by and MAI and a Certified General Appraiser. When I pulled up in front of the place you had to go one way or the other around the fueling station with underground fuel storage tanks.. I called when I arrived and asked if they changed their in house rule about lending on properties with these, I was told to send them a bill in full and cancel the order, they had not changed their rule. What was odd to me is how a Certified General Appraiser and an MAI could miss mentioning it in their report.

Jun 16, 2013 10:49 AM