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65 Comments on A Coin Has Only Two Sides
Ed, Thank you for such an informative and concise post. I used to shake my head in wonder before I entered real estate and began to listen to business news. In my "housewife" days I used to throw my hands up and say, there is SOMEONE SOMEWHERE, maybe a group of men who have the "formula" of just how to squeeze any small increase we manage to get into a cd or savings account, they know how to make life hard just to squeeze those of us in the middle class. We pay for everything.
I never liked Alan Greenspan. I used to sit and watch him and hear his name and wonder, how does this man rule all the gold in our nation, direct every dime towards housing costs, insurance costs, cars credit cards. It my less than enlightened days I was right, it was Greenspan.
It's discouraging to know one man has that much power. Who appointed him anyway. Was it Clinton?
By the way I live in a tourist/retirement community, Drummond Island Michigan, and Rene, I heard all about your wonderful state, and it's coastal resorts and communities. S.C. was visited by my co-worker and he said that so many Floridians are moving to your state. You must be busy. Hey send some of your residents to Michigan for our wonderful cool summers!
Thanks again Ed, your post was indeed very enlightening and interesting.
Terri - Thanks, I appreciate your insight.
Randy - I'm concerned that a relatively minor attempt at regulation by the feds will morph into something very restrictive. It's almost obscene to think that a bankruptcy court could have the authority to alter mortgages to make them affordable to borrowers. Lenders must be concerned about instability in the future. I'd like to believe that a normal correction could correct the problem, but fear that it's too widespread.
Vivian - Greenspan was appointed by Reagan and served until two years ago. You're right, the middle class will ultimately foot the bill for the current crises.
Ed,
I know the area, I used to work at GBMC. I agree with your post. Florida is still a wonderful place to live, even in this market. I moved here in 2003, and now consider myself as a Floridian...The cold weather bothers my back. I do agree though NC and SC are beautiful.
I also joined your blogs...great post!
I agree, Greenspan, jumped ship...
OK. I'll give this a shot. Here's some of my perspective.
I think that Alan Greenspan was (is) a pretty smart guy. Just because he failed to predict the ultimate consequences of one of his policies does not make him any less intelligent to me. Overall, I think his policies have been very good for the economy. I believe what we are in now is a market correction, brought about by market action. In my eyes, a classic example of "Supply and Demand", with a bit of greed thrown in.
For most of the 90's, we enjoyed historically low interest rates and people were buying homes. This is a good thing. Historically, when the FED raised interest rates, mortgage rates raised in lockstep. During this period, a curious thing happened. The FED raising interest rates did not have as great an effect on mortgages as it had in the past. The housing industry was attracting large financial institutions and many mortgage companies were born. This caused a great deal of competition and a resistance to raising interest rates. A good thing for the consumer. Home ownership is now at an all time high.
During the 90's, all the best customers, the one's with good credit, jobs, down-payments, etc., were buying homes. I am a Landlord and I noticed that the quality of the pool of renters during this period declined. All the best ones were buying! Then when the pool of qualified buyers with downpayments started to dry up, the financial markets came out with new products: 100% loans for people with good credit. They had to continue to make loans and this was a reasonable approach.
During the early 2000"s, the mortgage industry was employing more people than ever and they all had to be paid. The pool of qualified buyers was shrinking and somehow this pool had to be expanded. So along comes these new products (loans) that practically anyone could qualify for. Poor credit, a historical indication of the ability/willingness to repay, was not much of an obstacle to obtaining a loan and these products opened the door to fraudulent loans. Not a good idea. Basic financial principles were being ignored. It was hoped that double-digit appreciation would cover this risky approach. This is the classic "house of cards." When appreciation slowed, and, surprise, when these credit risks could not make their payments, the house of cards collapsed.
I do feel sorry for the innocent people who got caught up in this. I have no sympathy for the "investor" who was flipping and got burned.
I think that the people who perpetrated the largest loan frauds should go to jail. I predict that virtually no one will do jail time. I am not keen on the Government finding a solution to our current problem. I would like the financial markets to take their lumps and learn a lesson. I am conflicted that innocent people are victims and will suffer. I am not against new safeguards that prevent this from happening again, if they do not restrict market competition for loans.
I predict that 2008 will not be that bad for the national housing market, (partly because it is an election year), and 2009 will be back to a more normal market. There will be regions that are still behind, but improved, probably Florida and California. Fuel prices are a wild card that will affect spending and jobs. If we start to loose jobs, all bets are off.
I sold my place in 2005 because common sense told me real estate that doubled if not tripled in 7 years was wrong. Now I live in a 900 square foot house taking care of my handicap mother. Anyone with any common sense could see things were out of control. I am sorry Ed.. but your sister is not a victim. They have 60 years of history to make decisions from and everyone knows what goes up fast will come down faster. Who is the real victim?.. Me living in a 900 sq. ft. house in the middle of Michigan or your sister. Furthermore when did our society start thinking that children were entitled to inheritance.. GIVE ME A BREAK.. The best thing that could happen is 1/2 this country and mostly baby boomer's become poor leaving no backup for the spoiled children running around with 500 dollar jeans and ipods hanging from their heads.. I have been saving and not spending and living a very frugal life even though I was promoted and make a good living to.. If I can do it your sister can do it to.. Personal Responsibility will finally become the "word of the year"
Bob & Carolin - Thank you!
Wayne - I want to offer my thoughts in two respects. I am still something of a Greenspan fan though my views changed with the recent release of his book and a series of interviews. The man clearly admits to being an informal fiscal adviser to Clinton. His behavior during the 1990's reeked of impropriety. I agree that global forces often compel markets to react differently than expected when interest rates are altered. Still, in my mind, Greenspan artificially held rates low to portray a perception of prosperity that didn't exist. While the policy itself didn't cause the current crises it certainly laid the groundwork for abuse by lenders, Wall Street, and real estate insiders in general. I feel that we're dealing with something much different than a normal market correction at this time. It's certainly not part of a historical cycle. Like you, I favor federal convictions for those who commit mortgage fraud. I also support the prosecution of those guilty of predatory lending practices. Thank you for offering such an insightful comment.
Annon
It just so happens that I live in a 900 sq ft condo. I applaud your commitment to your mother. Like you, I sold a house in November of 2000 because of a sense that something was very wrong. I had a concern that housing values were escalating faster than incomes and a market collapse was inevitable. It's surprising to me that the crash didn't happen much earlier. Interestingly, the couple that bought my house sold it a year later for $100,000 more than they paid for it. I would have done well to hold until 2005. But, who knew!
I believe that our economy and our social values are highly dependent on stability in real estate markets. For one thing housing is concerned. One might argue that the stock market is analogous. The vast difference is the ease with which one can trade stocks compared to the difficulties of selling a home. Although, I have to admit that I don't disagree with you entirely. Prudent adults should have enough sense to recognize patently disastrous situations. The scenario is equivalent to the S&L crises of the 1980's. S&L's were offering substantially higher returns on investment vehicles than other institutions. The writing was on the wall for anyone who cared to pay attention.
While I agree that society, in general, is spoiled and that a dose of poverty is probably a good thing, I do believe that accrued wealth should stay in families.
I've read your comments on other blogs and appreciate your sarcastic wit and honesty. You're welcome here.
Ed, I've read your article twice and each time not only am I struck by the human side (your sister and her family) but at the country and industry wide reality. I'm one of those who didn't purchase "up" when I had the opportunity to. I chose not to for very specific reasons. That doesn't mean I look at others who saw an opportunity to enrich their lives and their families lives as being naive or shortsighted. I can sympathize with them and think "That could have been me.."
I'm not crazy about more federal regulation or intervention. But I am open to a solid economic solution/s to a path of recovery for my area and our nation.
Hi Kris
Thanks for your kind comments. It's strange, but the devaluation in housing markets has effectively penalized many households for attempting to move up and realize the dream.
I'm not at all convinced that we're contending with a normal cyclical correction. For one thing, some aspects of the problem were created by the feds holding rates artificially low for an inordinate length of time. Also, the industry itself appears dysfunctional in many respects. Mortgage fraud is a part of the problem as is predatory lending, but licensing and continuing education requirements are at fault at well.
Even if a miraculous self-correction were to occur, what has changed to keep the crises from heating up again quickly? We can't cling to a business model that's miserably failed the citizens of this country in the recent past.
I'm possibly the greatest proponent of capitalism and free market enterprise, but intervention appears to make the most sense in this case. It's reassuring, at some level, to think that the pending foreclosures would somehow purge and purify the system. But, the head count would be staggering and the scars permanent. Shouldn't the industry pay a price if consumers are expected to?
I think a wait and see attitude is fatalistic since we're dealing with something in desperate need of emergency care. I say "stop the bleeding," then diagnose the symptoms and make recommendation. Thanks again.
The artificially created perception of prosperity had become a reality for a nation that believes that bigger is better and every debt can be settled tomorrow
Ed that one statement in this brilliant, and I do mean brilliant peice says volumes. I would offer that the seeds were planted in the 80s. By 1984, just about every person I worked with wanted a Mercedes....including me, and for most of my life a car did not determine who I was. It was the glorious days of consumerism. I suppose others could argue that the 'keeping up with the Jones' mentality has been around since the Fifties. No matter, it all led as you said, to me standing in a yard in Rockville Maryland in 1985 as two buyers tried to outbid each other for a perfectly nice but not mansion-like colonial in a community called Woodley Park. We had gone to an open house there. Needless to say we did not participate in the auction. I think that was when Maryland started entering the 'real estate IS life' arena that Brian Brady and other California peeps have been discussing.
It has to end but how do we end it????? Education yes but will anyone listen? Again, thanks for a BRILLIANT peice that is getting lots of link love from me now.
Ed,
With China and other countries backing away from buying our bonds and securities because of our faltering economy, this problem is clearly more widespread than just housing and isn't going to clear up quickly.
Save your cash for purchases and leave your equity alone would be a great start for many who want to stay as unscathed as possible through this time. With three kids in college, I won't be able to follow my own advice, though.
I have a family member thats story is similar to your sisters, only "keeping up with the Jones'" has put them in a very compromised position where they clearly stand a chance on losing it all. Living a lifestyle that is financed by credit cards and home equity is a recipe for disaster.
Carole - I'm really at a loss for words except to say "Thank You!"
Fran - People need to understand that home equity isn't something to tinker with on a daily basis. I appreciate the broad view of the crises espoused in your comments.
Chris - Without a doubt, 911 plays into the equation. It's so difficult to sort through all the variables.
While no one really wants to waste time on blame, it is probably just as important to understand how we got here as well as where we need to go. The former constricts the latter to some extent.
Greenspan certainly made choices, starting from his early days as Fed Chairman under Reagan (he was appointed in 87). If you recall, we were then in the throes of the S&L debacle created by lax lending rules precipitated by Reagan's deregulation of S&Ls. The RTC bailout created a model for government response to huge national crisis with extensive tentacles. Will they do so again? Stay tuned - but my bet is a qualified yes.... qualification being the bailout will be aimed elsewhere than the borrowers who will be met with the chant of "personal responsibility". These same borrowers are tax paying citizens who will fund the Wall Street bailout.
Remember, the ruling crew in Washington live by the mantra "We want to shrink government to the point that it can be drowned in a bathtub" (Grover Nordquist). This means that any program with a positive effect will be systematically destroyed so they can tell us "see what a bad job government does when it tries to do anything" and we will say amen as we always do. Do not expect a bailout that massively helps citizens, as that can only happen at the expense of Wall Street.
I closed many deals in the RTC days. I was involved in the largest piece of dirt the RTC held by doing a deed in lieu. I then got to enjoy closing the property some years later to a Saudi investor. The difference in the original loan to what the investor paid was $231.5million. This was almost $1 out of the pocket of each man, woman and child in America. We paid it then and we will pay again when, as someone said above, the Government comes in and removes the handle from the door.
Sorry to be so dark. I would love for someone here (and I am very happy to see the number of extraordinarily bright and succinct comments) to help me out of this funk!
Tim
Isn't it great to see so much interest in such a complicated topic. I wish I had thought to direct Title-opoly readers here sooner. A provocative comment - by the way.
If there are answers to be had (and I pray there are that include a minimal amount of bloodletting) it is going to come from the folks on the ground. And that's what I love about participating in the threads you start. It will not come from Baltimore, or Denver or Sacremento and it sure as h**l isnt gonna come from Washington. These places are populated with folks who only know how to close the barn when the horses are already out.
Good job.
Tim
Thank You!
"I do feel sorry for the innocent people who got caught up in this. I have no sympathy for the "investor" who was flipping and got burned."
My sentiments as well.
"Sorry to be so dark. I would love for someone here (and I am very happy to see the number of extraordinarily bright and succinct comments) to help me out of this funk!"
Darkness is part of the cycle. Sunny skies 24/7 is not a natural occurrence, even though many in this business seem to think so. Deceiving ourselves by pretending that all we have to do is click our heels like Dorothy and say "The market is good, the market is good" isn't going to make it happen. The devastation caused by the RTC (as illustrated by your example) can easily be replicated in the coming months, and I believe is now unavoidable.
Time to act as fiduciaries and not push people into next year's disaster. Not everyone who can buy should buy.