James - Hi! I was wondering where you have been and now I know...you are writing that book, aren't you.

Good reminder for all the newbie's in town. I am wondering if a link to the source is good enough?

Sheron, yes, a link essentially just takes the person to the originally published material. So, for example, a You Tube video is OK because it plainly states it is a YouTube video on the screen and it is a link to You Tube. Also if I were to quote you for instance and then provided the link to that quote it is giving you credit and does not look like I am trying to pass it off as my own material.  Additionally, even if one paraphrases material, it is just good manners to acknowledge the source. All of us who write and blog deserve to get credit for our hard work.

Recently Maureen Henry posted a great blog on how to find out if your website is being ripped off using Copyscape When Plagiarism Strikes. Many people were shocked to find out that their website work had been ripped off. It is a pervasive practice but that does not make it OK and ignorance is not much of an excuse either.

Yup... this has been a common point of discussion for quite some time now on Active Rain.

The messages bares repeating over and over... as new members jump into the puddle.

Me

James - Excellent points, all.  Not to mention the fact that once people realize you are a plagiarist you ruin any chances you had of growing your business through that social network.  Well done.

I can't believe this would even be an issue.  ; )

Good to have the reminder then!

Susan

James, I am guilty as charged.  However, I sometimes use an article I've seen online because there is no way I could write as articulately as the author.  I do however, give credit for the source.  And I do know, there are people who plagarize just because.  That happens in two ways here on AR.  Either verbatum, or someone will post a blog on a topic and voila! someone else posts exactly the same topic, and often times not being careful enough to at least change the title.  Its just a human nature thing I believe, or a form of admiration, or laziness, or whatever, but it happens here, there, and everywhere, and will never stop.

Terry,

Perhaps we have all been guilty at one time or another. I do think, however, that we will enhance our professionalism if we simply give the reference if you can't get permission. As I stated, it is usually acceptable to quote a few lines as long as you state the source and place them in quote marks with proper referencing. It is really quite simple. If you got the information from a website just link to it or at least state where you got it. For example, "according to Mrs. ABC of CNN news the following is true....'  or cite the author's name and the link like: James Frazier accessed Nov 25, 2007 James@ADefinedDesign.com

What I am carping about is people wholesale copying material and posting it as if it were their original material...this in spite of the glaringly obvious fact that Active Rain specifically requires you to verify that the material is original or that you have permission if not. Additionally, it is perfectly acceptable to paraphrase someone but why not give the truth by acknowledging that this material came from them originally, albeit, with your particular spin on it.

James, stealing is stealing. Intellectual work is indeed work! One does wonder how hard this can be to figure out. Like Terry says I've seen some posts which are simply a cut and paste of other blogs but I've also seen magazine articles used as blogs. Too weird. 

© This little symbol means something. I'm glad you will be vigilent with your group.

James: I may be guilty as charged (unintentionally) at one time or another. I really hope not. But, that is no excuse. I am going back to source some of my Trivia and postings to all my groups. I stay out of the BIG groups (like Stage it Forward) just for reasons (ambiguous criticisms) like this.

I read blogs for knowledge and try to impart some of my own. Even with a title like "Group About Absolutely Nothing", your "watchful eye warning" has now made it less enjoyable. 

James, Nora has a made a very valid point.  Finger pointing here is not what we're all about.  We all know there are infractions of the AR rules, and I would imagine all of us are guilty of having violated the "AR code of ethics" at one time or another.  Why do we have to be having this conversation?  There are, somewhere, people in AR that are there to do that for us.  I agree with Nora.  This group used to be fun.  Now its going to be a matter of having to watch everything we say.  Not fun!  It smacks of the "military commissions act".  Tapping of our phones, reading of our emails.  Bah humbug!

Hum, I don't know what who caused James to become upset with the copying of other peoples writing. I can only believe that it was one of those grand moments for him which resulted in him saying what has (by his own admission) been said before. But, I must say that his saying it is not a bad thing.

Good grief! It seems to me that there are very few rules around this place. The one most important rule is that we don't put something on our blogs that belongs to someone else and call it ours. The reason that rule is so important to the masses is it is illegal to plagiarize. The reason that it is illegal to plagiarize is that intellectual property is still property. If we claim as our what is not ours then we are stealing.

What confuses me Nora and Terry is your belief that it will be less fun to post in a particular place if there is a rule enforced against theft. What is it that I'm not understanding about your position? Why is it wrong for James to say he is going to enforce a rule which has always been in place? Surely neither of you is copying and pasting from the writings of others. So if you don't have to change your behavior how can it become less fun to do what you have always done? I'm truly befuddled. 

Well, it disappoints me that this strikes you as draconian or "ambiguous criticisms". I just happen to think that it is not fair

1-for people to copy other peoples work

2- to present it as their own

3- ignore the active rain button which specifically requires one to acknowledge that the material is their own

4- to not cite the source when copying something

Surely you have things to say without resorting to  and paste. Admittedly, there are many things out there that can and should  be posted that are not original but all I am asking for is that you cite the source. Why is that taking the fun out of it?

Although the group is titled Group About Absolutely Nothing that does not translate into anything goes.

If you can explain to me how you can feel OK with cutting and pasting at the same time you push a button that requires you to acknowledge that you are not doing that then maybe I'll understand how I am taking the fun out of it for you. Is it that difficult to cite the source? Does it so annoy you to be forced to acknowledge another's work that it takes away your fun?

I quite purposefully did not point to any individual nor did I give any examples. I figured that I could simply state the complaint and let the chips fall where they may. Did I think I would upset some folks? Yes, I knew that would likely upset some people but I am willing to take that risk to bring an issue to light even if it is an old one. Do I think that I will singlehandedly stop this practice? No- I am not that idealistic but if it causes a few people to be aware of the issue then it is worth it to me.  Intellectual property rights are a serious matter to me.

It strikes me as odd in the extreme Terry that you have reacted to this issue by accusing me of "finger pointing" when I have not named anyone, and that you label what I am saying as "It smacks of the "military commissions act"."  and "Tapping of our phones, reading of our emails."

I hardly think asking for proper recognition of a writer's work, proper referencing, being honest when answering the direct question every time you post about the originality of the material or asking for acknowledgement of others rises to the level of "tapping our phones" and "reading e-mails".

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222-230 ...Shakespeare

http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/lady-doth-protest-too-much-methinks   accessed Nov 26, 2007

Yes, protests too  much.  Have fun and just write your own thing.  Post the source if quoting and continue to contribute.  Never thought of quoting Shakespeare here, but another source...ahhh.  thanks for the post.  Always good to refresh on the rules now and then. 

Oh my gosh - I can't believe the thread on this post.  What is the problem with agreeing to quote sources and not copy and paste?  How is that less fun?  No finger pointing going on here.  Jeez...it's a rule and a site rule at that...agree and move on.

Jackie

"Please let this serve as notice for the Group about absolutely nothing . If you post non-original material and fail to give credit for it you will be warned and then if you fail to correct it by citing the source, your post will be removed."

Direct quote above. This says it all. We are not disagreeing with "give credit, where credit is due", it is the above line and threat that we object to.  This was supposed to be a fun group about absolutely nothing!

Integrity is everything and we appreciate keeping AR viable and most importantly full of "valid" comments.

James, relax.

Nora, perhaps the next time you post something you might take the time to carefully read the content of the button you are required to click before you can post. It contains just as strong a wording as my statement, or "threat" as you put it. I'll quote it here to save time. "Please confirm that this entry does not contain copyrighted material. Posting copyrighted material without permission WILL result in being removed from Active Rain. Post entry?" now compare this to mine: If you post non-original material and fail to give credit for it you will be warned and then if you fail to correct it by citing the source, your post will be removed."  Correct me if I am wrong but it actually appears that my warning is less "threatening" than Active Rain- at least I am willing to give you a warning. Active Rain "threatens" to remove you from Active Rain- not just your post.

I guess if you interpret this as a threat it is from your point of reference. I can certainly respect that you have a different point of reference. My point of reference is that as founder and moderator of said group it is my responsibility to see that the post conform to the stated Active Rain policy and my own sense of ethics.

My "threat" is exactly the same as Active Rain's policy-if you cut and paste and fail to give credit your post will be removed. And finally, please read the following which was the original post announcing the group

Welcome to the Group About Absolutely Nothing

"This group is about absolutely nothing. Anything can be posted here as long as it conforms to the rules of Active Rain....any post that does not do so will be removed. Additionally, any post that attempts to be too serious will also be removed."

This post has been at the top of the page since the group was founded. And, yes, I do realize that according to the above, it could be argued that even this post should be removed for being too serious but since it addresses the issue so stated in the first part of that blog, I am going to leave it up.

Anybody else following the writer's strike?  This is much of what the dispute is about. 

The writers write the episodes, but only get credit (payment) for the episodes that run on tv.  The executives (those who did not contribute in any way) are now posting episodes online where the writers get no credit (payment) because their contract does not specifically state they should.  The executives gather dividends through advertisers that sponsor those episodes created by the writers.  They are - in effect - copying and pasting and not giving credit where credit is due and it has pretty much shut down an industry.

If you are going to create a blog off of someone else's work, give them credit.  That is all.

James,

I absolutely agree with you. What would happen if everyone decided to do their own thing all the time without following the rules. We would have people panicking in this world. We have rules and regulations for a reason and I for one always try to follow the rules of the game. 

Thanks to everyone who has commented so far and especially those who disagree with me. I am always open for a good debate and, although I might disagree with you and will argue with you till the cows come home, it is my sincere intention not to have my remarks taken as any kind of personal attack. Nor was my broaching the subject meant to single out an individual as evidenced by the absence of naming any particular party. As Mark Twain is reputed to have said, "Differences of opinion is what makes horse races".

This is a sensitive issue and some would say it has been treated ad nauseum but I would submit that it needs discussing every now and again precisely because it is a practice that is so prevalent. I know that many people think that any material published on the net is "public domain" and act accordingly. What one does on one's own blog is a personal matter. But I contend that Active Rain has a standard and I do not feel that I am being overly controlling with an effort to remind people of those standards.

Geez, this has gotten way out of hand everyone.  I think I said in my two previous comments I have no problem giving credit where credit is due, and if fact when I do a cut and paste, which has been like twice, I have given credit to the source.  I never said I found it to be a problem.  What I do find problematic is the "citizen patrol" here on AR.  I don't need to get emails or even phone calls from fellow ARer's about how I should go about posting.  Trust me that has happened.  I also don't feel that in some groups its fair to keep off topic posts of some and remove off topic posts of others.  Either all off topic posts are removed or none are removed.  Sorry I even commented in the first place, as my comments have apparently been misconstrued.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.  Thanks for the post.