Is there a buyer or not - that is the question...

"Hey NY Chic aka Christine"

Sorry about that. Waaay too many Grand Kids here. I am subject to some serious interruptions. :)

Now, as to this post. I have seen this before. As you may know we are infamous for listing homes after another Real Estate Company allowed their sign to rust in a Seller's yard. :)

The standard of practice we have seen the most on these last minute offers is that they are submitted to put a Seller on ice. :) That is not a "good" thing.  

Are you able to get us more details about this?

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...This Would Have Set Off My "Why" Flag Too. :) ROAR!

Christine,

My understanding of NY law is as long as the seller contacts you it is ok to talk to them. I believe you can discuss listing the property with a seller when the listing expires with the other broker even prior to that listing expiring.

Christine, I think your instincts are right. NY is dog eat dog.

OK...I guess I feel like some of you guys do in one of the mortgage threads.  I'll preface everything with a  disclaimer:  I passed the real estate licensing test in two states and had no broker affiliations nor did i join a board of Realtors.  I have some basic knowledge about real estate principles but very little inasmuch as it relates to being a Realtor.

I see the point of not soliciting listings as a violation of the Realtor cose of ethics; it is counterproductive to have one agent trying to seel a home and 45 other agents cutting their commission afterwards.   BUT...

Why can't a client seek advice from a Realtor about their other Realtor's practice?  Could that Realtor be hired as a fee consultant?  The Code of Ethics in many ways seems awfully protective of an old method of pricing.  Some of you may have noticed that I try to scheme up new compensation plans to be more in line with the consumer's interests; basically I try to float trial balloon.

What am I missing? 

I would not only ask for a valid contract (fully executed) but I would want to see a mortgage approval as well. This business of real estate is never easy. And one thing for sure, it is always stressful. The clients will always blame the realtor thinking that they are not doing their job. 

Phyllis pafumi

Second Opinion??  Depends on when.  If there is a contract between a seller and a broker, any broker or agent that would offer an opinion on another broker's listing is courting a COE violation.  Any advice that the seller wants from a third part would need to be with a non-REALTOR or an attorney.  Just my opinion.

Sure, you can, at an owner's request visit a property, preview it and discussing listing it once the present listing expires, but that's not giving an opinion about a pending listing or possible contract.  If the owner called and said that her listing was expiring at the end of the year and if the contract that had been promised didn't ratify, she would list with another broker, then a visit to talk about a future listing is appropriate.  That's it. 

For me, as a licensed broker and a REALTOR, I don't discuss the actions of other agents, brokers with buyers or sellers when they call, and they do call, regularly.  My response?  Contact me when you are not under contract to another broker.

Now, I'm going to write an article about the Stockholm Syndrome and how it works with real estate.

NY Law is not my territory, but I do know that in Ohio, we cannot solicit but we can certainly answer questions. Our Company contracts allow for sales to occur for up to six months after the listing period has passed, as long as the buyer appeared before the listing expired.

I agree and think you gave good advice about getting any commission reductions in writing, presumably that would show up on the finalized contract?

It's been my experience that this happens: if a listing is 180 days and that is normal market time for area sales, then a last minute offer just might legitimately come in.  Or the agent could be blowing smoke lol.

It is possible the agent does have any offer.  Earlier this month I received an offer on a property, the one an only offer the day it was expiring

I  am also in New York, and if the owner contacts you it is okay to speaker with him or her I personally would find it awkward.

Carole, 

 Yes we have that also about 6 months. That is why you need to keep a log of who you showed the property to. However, It doesn't really hold up because our REBNY rule is the customer has the right to choose whatever broker they want to work with. We have REBNY rules that contradict state law. It is a very gray area. We now have new agency disclosure laws starting in January. We have to disclose agency law. We have to tell a buyer what our relationship is with them. They are either a customer, a client or broker agency. Either we represent the seller or the buyer or the broker. This new state law is contradicting the REBNY rule that we represent a buyer if we bring them to another brokers listing. The DOS is saying it has to be made clear to the consumer.

I would never discuss another Realtor or a pending contract. But if a seller called me and said their listing agreement was expiring, I would go talk to them about listing with me after.

All of the laws in NYS are to protect the consumer not the Realtor. The attorney for The manhattan association of Realtors spoke at my meeting last week and basically said The REBNY and MANAR rules are just suggestions or guidlines but they have nothing to do with state law.

I hate these situations.  I feel torn between possibly interferring with a fellow agent vs. helping a fellow human being who might be getting suckered.

I'd just tell them to get it all spelled out in the contract.  Don't feel pressured to relist right away.  If it expires for a week or two, so what.  It's never a good idea to do something under any pressure.

Interesting how this one divided two different directions ...

A) Locally, you need to have the MLS listing extended through the COE date. Payment comes either way, but it keeps the system clean. Admittedly, the main protection is for the broker in case something falls through.

B) I lean with Lenn. Talking about relisting, great. But I'd have been very, very careful about saying anything about the way another agent does business. You can think it all you want, but commenting is iffy in almost any situation. Commenting on a particular contract would be dicey at best.

And now to flip-flop (but not completely) ... getting a second opinion wouldn't hurt in this case, but the ethics rules don't really allow for it. And also, Christine, keep in mind she called someone good-hearted when she called you. Another agent could have told her to get out of the contract because they'll get her more money, which absolutely would be a no-no. 

Christine,

Thanks for the post. What is not clear to me is, why did the seller purchase another property before selling the first? How was she advised by the agent, who helped her with the purchase?  With regard to the marketing of the listing, has the agent fully executed the marketing strategy as agreed? Has there been constant communication? Is it now sour grapes and the agent is at fault for her having two mortgages in a slow market?  Does the seller understand the market conditions? If it hasn't sold in a year, there is a problem with the price or the condition of the house, who controls rectifying those issues? you know someone has to be blamed and there aren't many sellers who operate with care (that's how we've managed to earn a living, we provide that balance). Remember we are dealing with emotions all through the process, whether buying or selling it's all emotional.

The best advice is to tell the seller to speak with their attorney. I think that even your well intentioned advice could get you into trouble even though you are trying to do the right thing.

The attorney should be involved because it adds a level of oversight that should keep everyone honest. Since you are not in contract witht he seller and you do not know the history of the seller and agent relationship you may be giving well intentioned bad advice.

The seller is already demonstrating a lack of loyalty to their agent, they will turn on you quickly and this could ruin your relationship with the agent for future transactions.

No easy answer here.

There are so many good comments on this issue, but one thing that stands out for me.  If as a listing agent, I offered to cut my commission on a deal I would immediatly have produced an addendum to either the listing agreement, or the purchase contract, stating the new commission rate and the terms under which it was being offered.  Had the agent done this, the seller may not even have called you.

What I dont understand, is how the offer was accepted without the terms of the commission being included, as a part of the escrow process. 

If I were the seller and I accepted the less than adequate offer based on my agents reduced commission I would expect to see that in the documents I was signing.  If it is not included in the documents, the seller only has a verbal from the listing agent and no supporting documentation.