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Do Active Rain members understand what constitutes "hate speech"? 

Here we go again with the Active Rain Guidelines:

ActiveRain Community Guidelines

The Guidelines clearly state, "we don't permit hate speech which contains slurs or the malicious use of stereotypes intended to attack or demean a particular gender, sexual orientation (my italics and bold type here), race, religion, or nationality."

The Guidelines further state,

  • Do not personally attack another person.
  • Do not slander another person.
  • I quote the Guidelines again: "We built ActiveRain as a place for real estate professional to network and create a sense of community/belonging. This is your community! It is our members that make ActiveRain a special place."

    Nowhere in the Guidelines is it written that attacks or demeaning comments are permissible if a particular group doesn't fall under Federal Fair Housing Law.  Active Rain has published a stated policy against attacks based upon sexual orientation.

    This morning, there appears to be much controversy over a post by a member which calls upon members of the "Real Estate and Christianity" group to band together and flag another member's post as "not in the spirit of our community".  The author of the anti-gay/lesbian post recently contributed a comment to his own post, describing those who disagreed with his opinions as "Sodomites" and "Sodomite sympathizers".  This is libel.  It is a personal and public attack on those who disagreed with the opinions expressed in his post. 

    Wikipedia defines hate speech as follows: "Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views...and any other distinction-liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting."

    Attempting to organize a boycott of a fellow member's post is "prejudicial action", particularly when the boycott is based upon the issue of sexual orientation.  And yes, these comments were made in written form, in a public setting, which further satisfies the definition of libel.

    • I'd be curious to know if members of the "Christianity and Real Estate" group wish to have this individual (with his clearly-stated prejudicial views on sexual orientation) represent them and their views on Active Rain. 
    • Is the anti-gay/lesbian post by this individual something that creates a "sense of community" among members?  Are his sentiments and opinions going to help make Active Rain "a special place"?
    • Do YOU want consumers and members of the public to read posts such as the one in question and conclude that ALL real estate professionals and AR members share the same prejudiced views?  How might this affect your business and your efforts to prospect using Active Rain as a marketing tool?

     

     

     
    Post is included in group: Wrong Right Turn
    Post is included in group: The Ninety-ninth Percentile
    Post is included in group: Bloggers Choice Selections
    Post is included in group: LGBT Referrals

    124 Comments on What Is "Hate Speech"?

    Thank you Eric for taking this stand.  Bigotry must be faced head on in order for it to be relegated to where it truly belongs.  Anyone still clinging to old ideas of racism, bigotry and intolerance no longer belong in today's professional society.

    12/03/2007 11:57 AM by Tim Nebergall - Database Driven Website Design, CRM and Marketing Consultant (Will2Design)


    Tim, I belive posts which express bigoted, prejudicial views are a threat to the ActiveRain community.

    12/03/2007 12:05 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Hi Eric,

    Great Post!  Our society should be beyond this kind of behavior.  We live in the United States where everyone is entitled to free speech but not "hate speech."

    12/03/2007 12:06 PM by Leslie Bloss, Seattle Real Estate Professional (REALTY EXECUTIVES/BRIO )


    Leslie, I thought the anti-gay/lesbian post was way over the top.  Some people seem to believe their right to express political views carries with it the right to discriminate.  This is why we unfortunately need Fair Housing laws.  It's a shame we have to remind industry professionals about this over and over again!

    12/03/2007 12:09 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Hi Eric,

    I am with you buddy. If this is an  example of how a great place like activerain will turn out in the end, I do not want anything to do with it. I dislike the word "Hate"

    Sincerely

    Tom Braatz

    12/03/2007 12:57 PM by Tom Braatz, South Eastern Wisconsin (Tom Braatz)


    Is there anything we can do besides flagging his post? 

    12/03/2007 01:01 PM by Chris Fisher of StagersLIST.com Buy Stage Sell (StagersLIST.com)


    Tom, I hope the folks who run Active Rain are taking notice of what is going on.

    Chris -- There may be grounds for a libel suit here, among other things.  I'd be glad to discuss it off-site.

    12/03/2007 01:10 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Nicely done Eric.

    That the post in question could sit quietly on AR, available for the public to see (not members only) is beyond disturbing to me.

     

     

    12/03/2007 01:23 PM by Dayton Realtor ~Theresa Lussier~ (Exit Realty Central)


    Thank you so much for bringing this up, Eric! While i would disagree with banning most posts for the simple reason that banning a post is like banning a thought and does more to close the doors to a dialogue than to open them, - in a professional board it is embarrassing to be even implicitely associated with bigots, whether Christian or otherwise. I am neither gay nor religeous, but I think God Bless You, everyone, was meant meant for EVERYONE!!!

     

    12/03/2007 02:32 PM by Inna Hardison-ha media group Marketing and Advertising Pros (ha media group)


    Eric - You make very valid points. I have posted a comment on his blog and on the response blog posted by Danny Thornton There is a definite difference between free speech and hate speech. I doubt seriously that the members of the Christianity and Real Estate AR group would appreciate him representing them in a professional forum in such an unprofessional manner.

    12/03/2007 02:50 PM by Rich Dansereau Loan Officer Knoxville TN (Home America Mortgage)


    Teri -- I agree.  My concern would be that non-members would read his flagrantly anti-gay/lesbian post and assume that we all feel the same way.  This kind of homophobic, anger-driven post undermines us all in our efforts to take our message to the public.  How do you improve the public opinion of people in the real estate industry when this sort of thing is on the Web?

    12/03/2007 04:15 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Inna -- Active Rain was created to be an inclusive, welcoming site for members and visitors.  I'm sure the creators of the site wanted to see our industry put its best foot forward before the public.  That fellow's negative, patronizing, "holier than thou" post does nothing to contribute to a positive image of the real estate industry.  To the contrary, I would hate to have to explain that post to a prospective client or customer if they were to read it.

     

    12/03/2007 04:26 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Rich, thank you for your comment.  The last time I looked at Bill's post, it was around 1:30 pm CST.  Sometime in the last three hours, it disappeared.  I assume the AR folks expressed their displeasure to some extent.  I didn't see any support for Bill's opinions when I read the forty or so comments that had been contributed by early afternoon.

    Free speech is a good thing.  On the other hand, when a post is written with the intended purpose of isolating an individual or group, excluding them and their opinions from the community and organizing a boycott against them, that is over the line.

    This guy characterized another post sympathetic to the gay/lesbian community as "not in the spirit of our community".  I wonder where in the heck he got the idea that someone had appointed him to serve as the morality police for Active Rain!

    12/03/2007 04:46 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric  Great post.  The post in question has been removed.

    12/03/2007 04:53 PM by Anthony Clark (Alexander, Merry-Ship & Alt Real Estate Group, Inc.)


    Anthony, it looks like the "Silent Majority" is neither a majority nor are they silent. 

    Funny how nobody spoke in favor of his bigoted actions and statements.  All his loyal fans just ran and hid in the shadows.

    The guy thinks Don Imus is a poster child for tolerance and equal rights.  At least Imus was smart enough to recognize the inappropriate nature of his comments and apologize.

    12/03/2007 04:57 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric, I think that ActiveRain members ban together today for a great cause. It was not really my intention in writing my blog to get his removed, but instead, to give a perspective from a different point of view. Valarie did nothing wrong in my eyes and I think that people needed to hear that. Right now, we have a member of our family down and until Valarie comes back to us, we are not a WHOLE community.

    12/03/2007 05:43 PM by Danny Thornton (Home America Mortgage, INC.)


    Eric, I agree wholeheartedly! Glad to see it removed, and again, thanks for speaking up.

    :-)

    12/03/2007 05:55 PM by Inna Hardison-ha media group Marketing and Advertising Pros (ha media group)


    Eric great post. In a way I'm sorry it was removed because the comments spoke for themseleves. He was "outed" for the whole world to see.

    12/03/2007 09:28 PM by Mitchell Hall, Associate Broker, New York, NY (Coldwell Banker Previews International)


    Danny, you are to be commended for your post yesterday,

    http://activerain.com/blogsview/294087/ActiveRain-is-a-WHOLE

    I didn't expect to see Bill's post removed either, but the whole thing seemed to get out of control, with name-calling and anger.  On top of that, I imagine the AR folks feared that it presented a poor picture of our industry to site visitors.

    The saddest thing about this is what happened to the young lady whose car was vandalized.  She had to endure that and then, as if it wasn't enough, was humiliated and ostracized in a public forum by someone proclaiming himself "holier than thou".

     

    12/04/2007 06:52 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Inna, thank you.  I have mixed feelings about the removal of that post.  It permits the author a clean slate and that is not exactly deserved. 

    The removal of a very biased post is unfortunate for another reason.  There were perhaps thirty or more AR members who responded to that anti-gay/lesbian post with constructive comments, condemning bias based upon gender preference.  As bad as it may be for the public to read the words of one member fomenting hatred (and cloaking it in religion), it's good for the public to see no one supported him.

    12/04/2007 07:01 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Mitchell -- The loss of the comments was unfortunate.  I imagine the AR management may have feared a lawsuit, or a lot of negative press.  There are some highly-visible and vocal pro-GLBT organizations that would have pounced on that post if it had remained on ActiveRain. 

    12/04/2007 07:05 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric- The loss of comments is unfortunate however, the beauty or curse of blogging is that our unique personalities and views come through regardless of what we post about. And I'm sure I'm not the only AR member who took a moment to look at what else Bill was posting. He doesn't hide his opinions any more than anyone else. 

    I believe that good things can come out of bad situations and the surge of support, the increased awareness for the fagbug, the knowledge that there are many many AR members who do not think that AR is a place to vent hate, the multiple posts, like this one, that continue the conversation... These are all positives that came out this, and this will continue even without the post.

    12/04/2007 07:19 AM by Dayton Realtor ~Theresa Lussier~ (Exit Realty Central)


    Teri, that was well expressed.  If even one member learned something from this unfortunate matter, that is a positive.

    One unintended consequence was that Bill actually did us a favor by bringing like-minded people together.  After reading the comments to his post, I went back and added to "my Associates" everyone who disagreed with him.

    12/04/2007 07:44 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric, I missed this entire event yesterday and this morning.  It was not until the post had already been removed that I became aware of this storm that was swirling around the rain.  Thanks to you and Danny for taking a stand.  None of us (that I'm aware of) came here to be a part of hatred and discrimination.  Not to mention what this could do for our blogging community if brokers were to see something like that and decide that blogging could be a liability to our licenses.  Kudos to everyone who took the time to post a dissenting view and make it clear that hatred is not tolerated or welcome here.

    12/04/2007 08:58 PM by Lisa Heindel, New Orleans West Bank Real Estate (Latter & Blum Inc. Realtors)


    Thank you Lisa.  The content of that post disturbed me.  It's good to know that it disturbed a great many other members as well.

    12/04/2007 09:54 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Thank you for posting such a powerful message.  The deleted post was indeed disturbing.  What I found even more disturbing is that he felt he was speaking "for" me and others in the community.  He and his ideals are certainly not welcome in my community, that's for sure. 

    12/04/2007 10:56 PM by Jeannie Kontis - Lancaster Real Estate, Lancaster PA Homes for Sale (Long & Foster Real Estate, Lancaster PA)


    Jeannie, the author of that post seemed to be hoping for major support from members of the "Christianity and Real Estate" group.  I imagine he was surprised to find that no one there wanted to be linked to his biased views.

    12/04/2007 11:03 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric.

    Hate crimes and the stupidity that comes with it is just plain wrong.

    Thoms BRaatz

    12/05/2007 10:48 AM by Tom Braatz, South Eastern Wisconsin (Tom Braatz)


    Tom, thanks for your support.

    I owe you a phone call, buddy.  Thanks for calling me the night before last.  I'm "on the road" but checking in here when I can hitch a ride on the Internet.

    12/05/2007 10:51 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Hi Eric:  It's easy.  Hate speech is what is usually spoken by hateful people.  They are usually so incredibly insecure that the only way they can "elevate" themselves is by stomping down others.  Hope you are feeling better.  Remember... chicken soup, lots of liquids, NyQuil, more chicken soup.  Take care...

    12/11/2007 12:20 AM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    Eric:  In reading some of the posts and comments about Valerie, and some of the "goings on" recently, I wondered if any LBGT oriented blogs existed... perhaps written by AR members, or not.  What can you share with me ?  Thanks, and hope you are well on the road to feeling better.

    12/13/2007 11:39 PM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    Karen Anne, I haven't really researched the existence of GLBT-oriented posts here.  But what offended me most was the "witch hunt" that ensued when Valerie posted her story. 

    Despite all the hubbub about Bill's post, he really didn't get any support from either the "Christianity and Real Estate" group or his so-called "Silent majority" group.  I know he has a small following on AR, but they all hid in the weeds when he started to bash her.

    12/14/2007 12:36 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric:  From what I can tell in piecing it all together, it appears he thought they were all behind him, and he went off the deep end.  Then, little by little he turned around, and there were few if any of them backing him up.  And, some of that group actually have told him to tone it down since his rant.  I think he did much more "harm" to his supposed cause just by being himself.  What goes around sometimes actually does come around.  Take care...

    12/14/2007 12:50 AM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    Karen Anne -- I'm concerned that there are people on this site who feel entitled to skirt the AR Guidelines in their eagerness to discriminate against gays and lesbians. 

    Have you noticed the posts and comments from some on AR supporting Huckabee for president, even though the television networks reported last week that Huckabee proposed "quarantining" gays in the early 1990s, presumably out of fear about AIDS?   

    12/14/2007 10:06 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric:  I am fearful about most of the Republicans vying for the nomination.  I really do not trust any of them.  Things were very diferent back in 1992... fear was high and scare tactics were rampant.  I don't remember that about Huckabee, but I am not surprised, him being a preacher... which is supposed to say he is a "man of God."

    The last eight years have seen many of our freedoms be slowly chipped away, and I dread another four years of the same.  I think one very important this that I rarely see mentioned is the ability to make appointments to the Supreme Court.  One more ultra-conservative and I'm afraid that chipping away will only accelerate.  So many of these people who label themselves as christians are so very un-christian.  Who would Christ quarantine ?

    12/14/2007 10:21 AM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    One of the "meet the candidates" forums I have encountered on the Web stated that Huckabee "believes in the absolute infallibility and literal interpretation of the Bible".  Sounds scary to me.. 

    12/14/2007 10:33 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric:  That is all the more reason why I wish these silly Democrats would quit taking shots at each other and concentrate on moving into the White House.  It would be such a tragedy to see someone like Romney in there.  A real tragedy indeed.

    By the way... I see you have the e-Pro designation.  Has it been helpful ?  Do you still feel it was worthwhile getting it ?  I have been considering it.  Please share your thoughts.

    12/14/2007 10:36 AM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    Karen Anne, great way of putting it. It is, indeed, scary. For all the conversations and posts (won't mention names) on how we are 'spreading FREEDOM across the World", we have hardly any freedoms left to speak of; none that are absolute or don't change on a whim of some fanatic or another...
    Scary... We seem to be forgetting our history in the only ways that matter-

    12/14/2007 10:46 AM by Inna Hardison-ha media group Marketing and Advertising Pros (ha media group)


    Karen Anne, the best thing about the e-PRO was that it made me more aware of technology.  I've had my e-PRO for almost five years and at the time I got it, the certification was relatively new. 

    I've read complaints by some that the e-PRO course is pretty basic.  Having taught tech courses myself (in Minneapolis and in Wisconsin) I can say that it's difficult to come up with a "one size fits all" curriculum for technology.  I recall education supervisors asking me to make sure my courses weren't "too technical".  They were afraid if the subject matter wasn't basic enough, I'd lose half the class before we were midway through the syllabus.  It's sort of like saying "do your job, but don't do too much of it"!

    The other problem is that technology courses have a shelf life.  Technology advances rapidly, forcing any instructor to have to update and freshen the material if it is to be useful. 

    With all that having been said, I believe e-PRO has value.  But that depends largely upon your personal degree of technology skill. 

    12/14/2007 10:58 AM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Hi Eric:  I have just done some extensive research regarding some possible causes for some of the negatives thrown around recently by some in many of the posts in question. 

    I am sure you are familiar with the quote I paraphrase... "Surely he doth protest too much."  Sometimes there exists in the lives of those who are the most vocal against something... sometimes there may be a hint or a clue that may explain certain actions.  Well... I think my research has uncovered something.  One of these folks who "protests too much" is somewhat of a "closeted" Barry Manilow fan.  Need I say more ?  Ahhh... the imagination runs wild...

    12/21/2007 03:34 PM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    Karen Anne, the haters are really out in force as we enter a presidential election year.  I have read posts by a fair number of real estate licensees who seem to mistake themselves for politicians.  Of course, there is no law against politicians scapegoating various groups in order to fish for votes.  But in real estate, which is a public service profession, jumping on the prejudicial bandwagon is not an option if one wants to keep their license.

    I just posted to my blog about the shopkeeper in Philadelphia who put up a "speak English" sign in his restaurant.  The guy seems to think he's Rudy Giuliani.  I'm sure he's enjoying all the media attention he's getting, badmouthing Hispanics and others who don't meet his literacy standards.

    12/25/2007 07:47 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    I guess I'm glad I missed the post in discussion. There seem to be more and more inappropriate posts here on AR. I say inappropriate because they have nothing to actually do with Real Estate, not even in the sense that they could lend humor about a transaction. There are a lot of opinions and beliefs floating around that probably shouldn't be published here....

    12/30/2007 07:04 PM by Michael La Fay & Sara Edwards (Meadow Lakes Supply Co.)


    Sara Lee, I've found that once in awhile, you run into posts written by people who really have an axe to grind.  It's a bit scary.  And yes, there are some bizarre opinions here that are completely inconsistent with the real estate business and the concept of serving the public. 

    This is a tortuous business for people who want to discriminate and for those who love to pass judgement on others whom they deem to be inferior.

    12/30/2007 10:32 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric-I’m wary of jumping into controversy because I really think Active Rain should be about real estate. I also have to admit that I never read the blog in you referenced, but a while back I refuted a post warning about the “threat” of gay marriage, which also appeared on Christianity in Real Estate. At that time I was told to stop “trolling” that group. It seems like the heated political rhetoric there has been toned down since the offensive post was removed. (Although it has to surfaced elsewhere.) There are some people who don’t want to hear someone else’s viewpoint. It is unfortunate that people like the one who wrote the blog or “Reverend” Fred Phelps of the Westoboro Baptist Church express their hatred under the guise of religion. I certainly don’t think it is representative of most religious people. Leaders such as Jimmy Carter and Father Andrew Greeley have been warning about mixing religion and politics. Other mainstream leaders should begin to speak out as well. I recently read a quote from Sinclair Lewis that said “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross”. It is the responsibility of true Christians to make certain that their faith is not hijacked.

    01/07/2008 10:53 AM by Rich Quigley CRS, GRI, ABR, SRES (Baird & Warner)


    Rich, that's a great quote (the one by Sinclair Lewis).

    Many people forget that some of the most despotic political movements in history have hidden behind patriotism and religious fervor.  During the McCarthy Era, groups like the Ku Klux Klan, the John Birch Society and even the American Nazi Party engaged in much the same behavior.

    01/07/2008 09:31 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Wow, I guess I have been away for a while.  I know there are plenty of people out there with such biggoted views, but I am frankly surprised (even though I shouldn't be) that they feel comfortable putting them in writing on this site.  Even more disappointing is the thought that people walk around with such hatred in their hearts and on their minds.  Even though this raised it's ugly head here, I am constantly encouraged in what seems to be a growing number of folks waking up and simply embracing life with all of it's tolerance and diversity.  My greatest hope is that my 4 year old son's generation will be the one to grow up not noticing the differences people seem so bent on pointing out.  A whole generation that doesn't even give a second glance to two men or two women walking hand in hand and showing their affection. 

    01/08/2008 01:24 PM by Kristen Wheatley (Keller Williams Realty Mid Maine)


    Hi Kristen: What a great attitude you have. This world would be such a better place if more people felt the way you do.  Thanks for sharing.

    01/08/2008 04:55 PM by Fort Worth Real Estate - - - Karen Anne Stone (RE/MAX Trinity)


    Kristen -- I think the fact we're in an election year makes people bolder about expressing their views.  Politicians enjoy the ability to speak their mind about pretty much anything.  There is no one to take their license away.  But I'm appalled to read comments by agents that are bigoted and outright foolish. 

    01/08/2008 04:59 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Eric, VERY GOOD Blog, hate speech also happens right with in our own community on AR or outside of of AR, either covertly or overtly. it is hard to expect the rest of the world not to use hate speech when with in our own community it is used to silence our speech . this has happened here on AR as well out in the community and other RE Agents. this is very sad... maybe someday this will not be a concern but until then we just have to speak up and not let the bigots of the world either str8 or gay  suppress our voices for together we stand and we can grow stronger and work to end this type of behavior

     

    01/25/2008 11:16 PM by Allen Kavanaugh (Keller Williams SWM)


    Eric-The person who put up that post is still at it, in a different venue, this time bashing both Al Gore and gay marriage. People who feel the need to write bigoted posts have some pretty deep psychological issues. I read his most recent post and wanted to comment on it, but felt it didn't deserve recognition.

    On a positive note, check out the public service announcements "be an ally & a friend" on www.glaad.org. They are great and include people like Jamie Bamber from Battlestar Gallactica, Jerry O'Connell (I remember him from Sliders), much of the cast of Grey's Anatomy and Ugly Betty. Come to think of it, having a show like Ugly Betty on TV is progress. Of course, BBC is ahead of that with Torchwood, starring openly gay John Barrowman who plays the bisexual leader of the organization that protects earth from interplanetary threats.

    Progress is never as fast as we would like, but there are lots of good people out there. Unfortunately there will always be neanderthals that write homophobic blogs. Of course they don't believe in evolution either. Maybe that is why they have not evolved.

     

    01/27/2008 10:19 AM by Rich Quigley CRS, GRI, ABR, SRES (Baird & Warner)


    Eric, and all,

    Free speech is defined by the content of the discourse and the character of those involved in it.

    As we talked in the past, Realtors have a license that holds them responisible for their actions and words.

    AR members-for the most part-are striving to build a community that supports debate and engagement.

     

    They certainly are holding this person accountable. Enough said. We are all hoping that person is listening.

     

    Steve 

     

    01/27/2008 12:30 PM by Obeoman Steven Stearns (www.obeo.com)


    Eric: I did check out the "Christian" group and was sickened by that particular person and his "Al Gore endorses sodomy" post. I actually did a post in this forum critical of them, but then deleted it. I did appreciate the one gentleman who had generally positive comments regarding civil unions. Maybe a little cross (no pun intended) posting by some of us could do some good? Maybe more harm than good? 

    Amazing what passes for Christ-like these days. 

    01/28/2008 05:31 PM by Scott Smith - Gloucester & Rockport, Massachusetts (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage)


    Allen -- It still amazes me to read an occasional post on AR which openly advocates discrimination.   This is an example of people confusing what they perceive as their "right to free speech" with their obligations under the law as real estate industry professionals.

    01/28/2008 08:11 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Rich, I'm aware that a handful of right-wingers have their little forum on ActiveRain.  I don't bother reading that stuff.  And the so-called "silent majority" is neither silent nor a majority. 

    01/28/2008 08:14 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Scott -- Yes, I've read bigoted statements made by someone who professes an ardent belief in Christ. 

    I'm reminded of the quote by Mahatma Gandhi: 

    "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ".

    01/28/2008 08:20 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Great Ghandi quote, Eric. Fanatics in any religion are what cause most of the trouble on the planet, and they apparently don't see the irony in the situation.

    01/28/2008 11:38 PM by Rich Quigley CRS, GRI, ABR, SRES (Baird & Warner)


    I just joined the group about 10 minutes ago.  I missed the blog in question. Just reading your comments and responces has gotten me a bit anoyed.  Anoyed at him not any of you.  We all have to deal with people like this from time to time.  I didn't think that I would have to see it in a Professional Public Forum like this.  Shame on Him!  I wonder if he would say the same thing to any of us face to face?  All the Best-Mike

    01/30/2008 05:07 PM by Michael J. Gallo-ABC Mortgage Funding (ABC Mortgage Funding)


    Rich -- These guys are so worried about anything they consider "left-wing".  Funny, but they have absolutely no problem with extreme right-wing beliefs. 

    Anybody remember the little Austrian guy with the mustache who caused all that trouble around the middle of the last century? 

    Michael -- The individual in question is still actively blogging on AR.  I try not to read any of his posts.  I find such opinions far too reactionary and hysterical.

     

    01/30/2008 10:29 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    Michael-Welcome to the group. It is unfortunate that you ran into the comments on this persons post right away. Eric's got a point that it is probably best to avoid reading this guy's blog. It's like seeing a train wreck, you try to look away but somehow see it anyway. Most of the posts in this group are very positive.

    01/31/2008 09:38 AM by Rich Quigley CRS, GRI, ABR, SRES (Baird & Warner)


    Rich, you can drive yourself crazy reading some people's rants.

    Looking at it is one thing, but it takes self-control to resist commenting!

    03/14/2008 08:57 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    Eric, I'm glad that this post was featured on the Spotlight by Jason Sardi.  Congratulations!  This topic is so important.  Sometimes, it is helpful to leave a post like the one you mentioned up so that the truth can be exposed by bringing the discussion to full light.  I can also see why it was likely taken down by AR.  So, although, I never read the original post, I do appreciate the thoughtful reasoned discussion challenging the opinions expressed.

    03/17/2008 01:15 PM by Lola Audu~ Audu Real Estate~ Grand Rapids, MI Broker


    Lola, thank you!

    These discussions get heated once in awhile, especially when the subject matter touches on politics or religion, but I think everyone did a pretty good job of keeping it constructive under the circumstances.

    03/17/2008 01:38 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    Eric,

    I, like Lola, was not aware of this issue until Jason's post...I'm glad this whole issue died a quick death, at least here on AR...I'm afraid that human nature will always find prejudices on both sides of a debate about 'prejudice'! As a Christian, I am obliged to love everyone, while I may not agree with their viewpoints, their lifestyles, or even their sexual orientations! JMHO, Thanks,   Fran

    P.S. I am a member of both the Christianity and Silent majority groups, and although I speak only for myself and not for the groups, I am proud to be associated with the members of both groups!

    03/17/2008 01:49 PM by Fran 'The Title Man' Gaspari Title Insurance-PA & NJ (Patriot Land Transfer, Inc.)


    Eric-Excellent reminder...and oh so true.  We wonder why our world is in the state it is in.  Doesn't make sense to me..  Honestly I want you to know what a great writer you are!  This is without a doubt a excellent post and it is timely!  Boycotting, Fair Housing, are they crazy????  Great post and congrats this post was selected for the blogger's choice selections!

    03/17/2008 01:56 PM by Midori Miller-Daytona Beach Florida Real Estate Trainer (CENTURY 21 Sundance Realty)


    Fran, I appreciate your perspective on the subject.  It is human nature to have opinions on politics, lifestyle and religion.  As real estate professionals, we have to remind one another at times that laws compel us to serve and be tolerant of everyone, regardless of such differences.

    03/17/2008 01:58 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    Midori, I am honored by your compliment and by the blogger's choice award.  Thank you!

     

    03/17/2008 02:00 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    That really irks me....and it is these sorts of people that push their views and values on others that I disagree with as well.

    Intimidate is a good word you used to describe what is going on. We all have or opinions.... but it's another thing to push an opinion on someone or try and MAKE people think as them. Control issues through intimidation.

    Wonderful writing and writer you are!

    03/17/2008 02:11 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), e-PRO HAWAII Real Estate & HAWAII Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


    Eric-Congratulations on the "blogger's choice" award. You truly deserve it. Sometimes good deeds actually get rewarded!

    03/17/2008 03:47 PM by Rich Quigley CRS, GRI, ABR, SRES (Baird & Warner)


    Sally, the concern that generated this post was about a member who (1) attempted to organize a boycott against another member who was advocating tolerance of gays and lesbians, and (2) accused all the members who commented in her defense as "sodomites" and "sodomite sympathizers". 

    Not to dredge up unpleasantness that has been dealt with by the AR gods, but this incident points up the need for us all to observe the ActiveRain Guidelines.  And at the same time, there is a message of tolerance that should not be forgotten.

    Thanks for the compliment!

    03/17/2008 04:35 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    Rich, thank you!  I'm a big fan of your own writing and your contributions to AR!

    03/17/2008 04:36 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    My response to "Kathy" from Orlando, Florida follows (I have deleted her comment):

    I have taught Fair Housing and ethics courses in the Minneapolis and Saint Paul area during the past several years.  When you teach Fair Housing or ethical practices, I believe you have to walk the talk.  I live by what I write and the folks who know me will tell you the same.

    Okay, this is my blog and therefore anonymous comments aren't acceptable here.  I'm not sure what you were trying to say, but unless you wish to go public and stand behind your comments, it's my judgement to hit the "delete" button.

    03/17/2008 11:26 PM by Madeline Island Realty - Eric Kodner Sells Madeline Island


    When all this controversy started at the beginning of December last year, I had been a member of AR for barely one month. It made me really questioned why I was here. The post which started this seemed so unprofessional and out of keeping with what I had heard about AR and experienced on AR. I quickly came to realize that this mean spirited voice was NOT the voice of AR. Thankfully, I quickly realized this was the voice of a vocal and vitriol filled minority that did not represent the spirit and collective voice of AR. I am pleased to say that my decision to remain has lead to some great professional and personal relationships. 

    FYI, I fully support your decision to delete any comment for any reason as this is your post. I also know that I am in the minority when I say that I am glad that the offending post was removed by the powers that be. While I understand that it showed the positive manner in which the AR community came together to fight discrimination and hatred, leaving it would have allowed the hate and ugliness to remain. I think that the removal of that post helps to foster a positive and supportive AR atmosphere through the elimination of such a nasty and negative voice. While the Christianity and Real Estate Group and the Silent Majority Group have been mentioned numerous times throughout these comments, I did want to point out that there is an LGBT Referrals Group Link! Group as well. 

    03/18/2008 04:41 PM by Rich Dansereau Loan Officer Knoxville TN (Home America Mortgage)


    Rich, I've always found it a bit astounding that Fair Housing issues remain a controversial topic with some folks in our industry.

    When I took real estate licensing "Course One" in Wisconsin, one of the first things we were told is to respect and comprehend the need to extend services and treatment of others on a completely non-prejudicial basis.  Our instructor (an attorney) said "if you're not planning on adhering to this, you might as well leave right now".

    Why does the concept of equal treatment bother some in our industry?  It's a mystery to me why someone with an inclination to discriminate would choose real estate as a career in the first place.

    03/18/2008 04:51 PM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


    Eric...Why does the concept of equal treatment bother some in our industry?  Why does it bother people in any area of our lives???  That is the bigger question and the bigger puzzle. 

    Take care,

    Kathleen