Members: 114,245 - 2,007 Online Now  Login
 

SO YOU THOUGHT YOUR HOME BUYER WAS A GOOD RISK?  THINK AGAIN. 

         * * * *    WARNING, HARD CORE REAL ESTATE TALK * * * *

If your home buyer has a FICO Score of less than 680 and a down payment of less than 30%, the cost of mortgage money has increased significantly. 

Unlike the "subprime" loans of the past several years that have been processed by "subprime departments" of mortgage institutions or brokered to subprime specialists, these loans will be handled routinely.  While borrowers with FICO scores of 620 to 680 may not be considered subprime, their scores are "rated" for additional pre-set premiume of from 2% to 3/4%.  Further, this "rating" of loans by credit score will encourage many lenders to "push" marginal borrowers into subprime loan instruments as they have often done in the past. 

Fannie Mae's most recent report states that the average FICO score for the bundled loans that they buy is 721.  That alone indicates a system of "creaming" of loan packages.  The new rating of loans based on credit scores alone, is likely to make mortgage financing much more difficult for borrowers with scores of less than 680. 

If you think a home buyer with 20% down is a good risk, think again.
The changes in the fees Fannie and Freddie will be requiring of borrowers will, as of March 1, 2008, apply to home buyers with FICO scores of below 680 rather than the former score of 620 or below.  Further, and very important, these new fees will apply to home buyers who are putting down less than 30%.  That's right, not the  traditional 20% required for Private Mortgage Insurance, but 30%

FOR A $300,000 PURCHASE WITH 10% DOWN:
FICO
620 or below, the premium will be 2% of the amount borrowed and the home buyer will have an additional fee of $5,400. 

FICO 620 to 639, the premium will be 1.75% of the amount borrowed.  The home buyer will have an additional fee of $4,725.

FICO 640 to 659, the premium will be 1.25% of the amount borrowed.  The home buyer will have an additional fee of $3,375.

FICO 660 to 679, the premium will be 0.75% of the amount borrowed.  The home buyer will have an additional fee of $2,025.

Of course, borrowers can elect to roll these fees into the mortgage interest rate, thereby raising the interest rate by up to 1/2% or more.  Add the higher cost oAmerican Dreamf PMI and it's likely that rates will increase by 1% or more. 

HIGHER MORTGAGE INSURANCE PREMIUMS
Sure to follow will be an increase in Private Mortgage Insurance premiums.  Some in the industry predict an effective doubling of the PMI costs for conventional conforming loans, those purchased by Fannie and Freddie.  On a $300,000 home purchase with a 10% down payment, the Private Mortgage Insurance cost will be about $4,590.  Further, many private insurance providers will no longer insure loans with less than 5% down.  If your home buyer has a FICO score of 659, their increased cash needs for settlement will increase by about $7,700 or an increase in interest rate to finance the increase cost.

THE AMERICAN DREAM JUST BECAME MORE COSTLY.

RATE SHOPPING AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER.
One thing is for sure.  Buyers will find it more and more difficult to shop for lenders with the lowest rate because  rates will become much more FICO Score sensitive than before.  It will be difficult for any lender to quote a rate without looking at the prospective borrower's credit score.  How will this affect the mortgage companies that advertise rates on the Internet??

BUYERS AGENTS:  It will also make it much more difficult for real estate agents who are writing a contract to prepare a Buyer's Estimated Closing Cost document.  How much additional closing costs for lender fees can an agent estimate without knowing the credit score?  When determining a prospective buyer's price range for search, the answer will have to be "depending on your credit score", based on your income and cash available, you area in an approximate price range for initial search of $XXX."   Price ranges will be much more credit score sensitive now than in the past when income was the factor used. 

Since these additional fees apply to buyers with less than 30%, more buyers will have larger 2nd trust financing or HELOC lines which also carry a higher interest rate than the underlying mortgage loan.  Buyers with limited cash are going to be faced with significantly higher monthly payments or will be limiting their searches to lower price ranges.  If buyers can't find homes that suit their needs and wishes in the lower price ranges, they are not likely to buy. 

DO THE "RISK BASED" CREDIT SCORE PREMIUMS VIOLATE THE FANNIE MAE MISSION??
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are Government Sponsored Enterprises and as such, enjoy a $2,250,000,000 line of credit from the U.S. Treasury Department.  Fannie and Freddie are also exempt from state and local taxes (except property taxes).  Although Fannie and Freddie are government sponsored, they are shareholder owned corporations and are regulated by HUD.  To enjoy the special previleges of a GSE, Fannie and Freddie are required to operate in a financially sound manner in the performance of their MANDATED mission.

THE PUBLIC PURPOSE OF FANNIE AND FREDDIE MISSION
Under the Government Sponsored Enterprise Act, Fannie and Freddie have a mission, under the law, to devote a
percentage of their business to three specific affordable housing segments:

Low and Moderate Income Housing
Special Affordable Housing
Underserved Areas

The most recent goal levels were implemented in 2004 and are effective through 2008.

Low and Moderate Income Housing 56%
Special Affordable Housing      27%
Underserved Areas       39%

HUD has no requirement for the total number of home purchase mortgages that Fannie and Freddie must buy.  However, they are required to buy a percentage in each category.   If Fannie buys a million mortgages, 470,000 of them must be for low and moderate income families.  Perhaps Fannie and Freddie do not know that low to moderate income home buyers are not the group with the highest FICO scores. 

NO HELP FROM FANNIE AND FREDDIE FOR HOME BUYERS.   "Fannie Mae has a federal charter and operates in America's secondary mortgage market to ensure that mortgage bankers and other lenders have enough funds to lend to home buyers at low rates. Our job is to help those who house America."  Fannie Mae Mission Statement.

Fannie Mae's stated mission is NOT to help the home buyers who finance the purchase of the homes in America.

UPDATE:  Since publishing this article early this afternoon, Washington Mututual, the country's largest Savings and Loan, slashed it's dividend from $0.56 to $015, plans to reduce it's home loan positions by 2,600 employees, plans to set aside $1.5 billion and $1.6 billion for loan losses in it's 4th quarter.  Finally, WaMu plans to discontinue it's subprime division.  They don't need to discontinue the subprime division, any borrower with a FICO score of below 680 will be subprime. 

 

 

64 Comments on FANNIE AND FREDDIE REDEFINING THE MEANING OF "SUBPRIME".

Lenn, this is the type of solid real estate info I've come to expect from you.  Holy cow, it's going to be even harder to qualify for a loan. 

12/10/2007 11:18 AM by Palmetto Bay | Redland Real Estate | Maggie Dokic (EWM Realtors)


FIRST sign of trouble:  "HI, I am from the government and I am hear to help you. By the way, what is PITI?"

12/10/2007 11:36 AM by Amanda Hall * Texas Real Estate Broker * (Hall Team Homes )


I sent a warning out to my entire buyer database a few days before the new rules hit on December 3, and how many of them actually read and heeded the changes?  2.  sticking one's head in the sand doesn't grant immunity. 

12/10/2007 11:46 AM by Leigh Brown Charlotte NC Broker/Owner (RE/MAX Signature Properties)


Lenn-  Yet ANOTHER one of your EXCELLENT posts I have to bookmark.  Thank you for such excellent info and content!

12/10/2007 12:16 PM by James Downing - REALTORĀ® - Washington DC Real Estate (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage)


Lenn,

As for rate shopping...it never worked anyhow!!! And just when the consumer needs a transfusion...they're taking more blood!!! Thanks,   Fran

12/10/2007 12:17 PM by Fran 'The Title Man' Gaspari Title Insurance-PA & NJ (Patriot Land Transfer, Inc.)


Lenn - You are a wizard that is stuff...great post. I have grown to come here when I need solid information. Thank you.

12/10/2007 12:37 PM by Gilbert Arizona Real Estate - Candace Robinson (HomeSmart )


Lenn, Well said.  This is another reason it is so important to protect one's credit score.  Good and timely post.

12/10/2007 01:23 PM by Bradenton Florida Real Estate - Dan Forbes (Sarasota Metro Properties)


Because it's not hard enough to get the buyers qualified already...

Thanks for sharing this info Lenn.  At least we won't be taken by surprise when clients start getting hit with these fees.

12/10/2007 01:23 PM by Lisa Heindel, New Orleans West Bank Real Estate (Latter & Blum Inc. Realtors)


Maggie.  Thanks.  This is what we need to know to work in this hard market. 

Amanda.  You are 100% correct. 

Leigh.  I have the same experience.  If our sales suddenly got hot and heavy, agents would be surprised at how qualifying has changed. 

James.  Spread the word.  Everyone needs to be on top of these matters.  Thanks.

Fran.  I have always shopped rates for my buyers.  I will continue to do so.  I will simply have to use a lower qualifying rante.  Or, I'll just have my buyers pull their credit report and we'll deal with it. 

Gilbert.  Thanks.  I have seen other who posted the new premiums but not in any detail.  I'm going to put this in Localism soon.  Since it didn't get featured, I'll just put it out on Google.

Krista.  My pleasure.

Dan.  You betcha.  I plan to review mine next week.  It takes me a week to build up to it.

Lisa.  Thanks.  You focused on why I did the research.  We agents need to know what we're dealing with.

 

12/10/2007 03:29 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


What a challenging year this has been! The new Fannie guidelines make it even more so.

That is the first time I encountered the Fannie Mae mission statement, interesting....

 

12/10/2007 03:54 PM by Sean Wheelan (The Mortgage Group, Ltd)


I just sent this information to a client of mine that thought, based on a pre-qual letter they had from 6 months ago, that they would get a sub 6% interest rate.

Think again. Times have changed and those new laws went into effect 11/30.   

 

12/10/2007 04:05 PM by Tracy Santrock-Cary NC Real Estate Blog (Fonville Morisey)


Lenn,

 Sounds like consumers or homeowners  need to get really, really serious about their FICO scores and America has to start practicing deferred gratification!!  I have always said our public schools need to start teaching a whole semester or year of managing money!!!  Great terrific post!!

12/10/2007 04:09 PM by Camille O'Donnell (Coldwell Banker Waterman Realty Company)


Lenn, It just keeps getting uglier and uglier. We are in for some very interesting times these next few years. Affordable housing in Poinciana ain't going to mean squat if folks can't get a mortgage. I guess I need to brush up on lease/purchases, wrap arounds and owner financing. 

12/10/2007 04:27 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


Tracy.  I believe the Fannie, Freddie new fees kick in March 1, 2008, but many lenders are already charging it.  While actual quoted rates are not high, even lower than some weeks ago, the fees are adding higher cash needs.

Sean.  Interesting that Fannie and Freddie's mission is not to serve the consumer.

Camille.  It would be interesting if some level of financial management was taught in public school.  I'm not aware that it is.

Bryant.  I would imagine that you have a goodly number of mortgage free homes.  Owner financing doesn't mean a lot except for FHA and VA mortgages which are assumable.  The good old land contract that I've used over the years is just too risky these days.  That "due on sale" clause makes it too risky.

 

12/10/2007 04:36 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Thank You - Thank You - Thank You for this post.  You are really on the ball.  I'm sure I would have not known about this until a lot later.... and I would have found out in a way that is not as easy to understand as your post is!

12/10/2007 04:36 PM by Debbie Cook (Long & Foster Real Estate, Inc)


We got the email informing us of Fannie's plan to add these "risk" based premiums going on about a month ago.  Though it's not supposed to be implemented on loans that close and are delivered after March 8th, 2008, most investors are pricing their loans with the premium now.  

Also, on CNBC this afternoon they started talking about political pressure being brought to bear on Fannie and Freddie to resend these premiums.  We'll see.  

Being that Fannie and Freddie were created to encourage home ownership, my gut level is that these premiums will not stand.

 

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

12/10/2007 04:38 PM by ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.


Lenn - I am a better informed agent because of you. I am a better agent because of you. Those two facts ultimately make me a better person..........because of you.

thank you

12/10/2007 04:48 PM by John MacArthur The MacArthur Group (Long and Foster Real Estate, Inc.)


Debbie.  I don't like bringing bad news, but if I were in your place, I'd want to know the details about buyers putting contracts on my listings.

I know that I'm going to be more careful when helping buyers determine price ranges from now on.

Bob.   My guess is that the stockholders of Fannie and Freddie will prevail, not the home buyer.

John.  I love your posts too.  They are thoughtful and make me think.

 

 

 

 

12/10/2007 04:55 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Thanks for the heads up.  very, very important.  These are going to be tough times indeed.

12/10/2007 04:56 PM by The Best Spot Realty/Waterfront Real Estate/Ooltewah Real E


Thank you for the "heads up" on upcoming challenges Lenn.  This could certainly make a what is beginning to turn into more of a buyer's market in Seattle change into a stagnate market if many buyers are not able to qualify for loans, or only with difficultly.

With these mortgage changes we are seeing, it seems that going forward that future buyers will be bearing the cost of all these changes to help previous buyers.

Forewarned is forearmed, now let's think proactively....

12/10/2007 05:06 PM by Deborah Burns ~ Seattle Real Estate Agent (BRIO Realty)


Thanks for putting this together in one easy to read post. I had heard about the premiums, but not the 30% down issue. I was expecting an increase in PMI due to the market insanity as well.

I also found the mission statement interesting.  Thanks for doing the research on this one. It's bookmarked for me for easy sending to clients.

12/10/2007 05:21 PM by Melina Tomson, M.S. Salem Oregon Real Estate Specialist (Tomson Burnham, llc)


Lenn,

You really put things in to perspective, getting a loan just got a whole lot harder! Thanks :)

12/10/2007 05:27 PM by Suzanne Sands-Somerset, MA Real Estate (Century 21 Associates Realty)


Lenn, this post goes right along with the one you wrote earlier.  Rates are now even more sensitive to FICO scores; hence, rate shopping now will be even less useful than before.

12/10/2007 05:29 PM by Brian Schulman - Your Lancaster County, PA Real Estate Professional (Coldwell Banker Select Professionals)


Gayle.  At least we won't be surprised when a loan officer says to a buyer with 20% down that they will have to pay a premium for their 80% LTV loan.  Good grief!!!!!

Deborah.  Bingo! ! !

Melina.  I found the 30% down matter very disturbing.  It's very hard for consumers to save money in this economy.

 

 

 

12/10/2007 05:30 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Great post Lenn!  But don't forget to factor in the census tracts for declining markets.  Before we can even get a pre-approval letter we will have to have a specific address and we are seeing some buyers denied because the home they want to buy is in a declining market.  Doesn't seem to matter that they are qualified to buy it.  This is turning into a bigger mess than we ever imagined.

12/10/2007 05:32 PM by Donna Quanrud (Coldwell Banker Burnet)


Donna.  I've read about lenders denying loans based on locality.  IMO, that is clearly "Red Lining".  But, they'll probably get buy with it on the basis of home values patterns and not race. 

Sounds like economic red lining to me.  For goodness sakes, why even have FICO scores. Why not just eliminate declining markets from home loans and let the communities go to blight? 

What a monstrous practice. 

12/10/2007 05:44 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Maybe this is a partially a good thing? Getting back to the "value" of maintaining good credit. Our business may change a bit, but I think it might make it easier for a buyer to understand why they are being charged a certain rate. It is obvious though that those that make money by lending money are pricing higher to recoup their losses. The cost of money is going up.

12/10/2007 05:48 PM by Craig W. Barrett - Hughesville MD Real Estate (RE/MAX 100)


Lenn.... you present this all too well. I agree with many that this was easy to read. But I do disagree on one thing. You said, "If your home buyer has a FICO Score of less than 680, they will be considered subprime."  

Subprime is subprime and conventional is conventional. Even with these adjustments, the rates will still be lower than subprime. Most of subprime starts with 10% down or more.  Here is an example... All based on a 619 credit score at a 90% LTV and loan amount of $200,000.   SUBPRIME :  A 3 yr fixed rate of 9.20% with no mortgage insurance. Your payment would be $1,638    Now, a conventional deal : 30 yr fixed rate at 6.375% with MI, your payment would be $1,334 per month. Both these loans are at par with no costs to compare apples to apples. 

I totally understand what you are saying, but it's how its being stated. Even classifying the fannie and freddie rates as risk base pricing, they still will be lower. It's where FHA will be better at this example. The same par rate would be 1/2% lower than the conventional deal. If you remember my post from over the weekend in regards to the two differences, FHA & Conventional, this shows the difference.

Overall, I didn't miss your point.  You said,  "RATE SHOPPING AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER."

And then went on to state that it will be much harder.... you hit the nail on the head. I just wanted to point out the perception that so many will have. As I stated in my post the other day, if you have a credit score of 679 and less with less than 25% down, your best bet might be FHA...  meaning, the consumer will need to shop this since it is not 100% fico driven. Not will all lenders.

In any case, you did a good job of dissecting this and making people aware of what the dangers might be. I just wanted to clarify the term 'subprime'.

jeff belonger

12/10/2007 06:12 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages -- Mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Lenn,

Great info. Good to see the numbers in black and white so the true impact can be seen.  I'm glad this post got featured...the word needs to get out.  Most of this info is not exactly front page news for the average consumer, and buyers are oblivious to these changes.

"Sure to follow will be an increase in Private Mortgage Insurance premiums."  You are correct. This is already in the works..MGIC just announced plans for score driven risk based pricing for mortgage insurance.  FHA is also considering doing the same thing. 

"Also, on CNBC this afternoon they started talking about political pressure being brought to bear on Fannie and Freddie to resend these premiums.  We'll see.  

Being that Fannie and Freddie were created to encourage home ownership, my gut level is that these premiums will not stand."..I hope Bob is correct.

The mantra is pre-approval,pre-approval,pre-approval..more important than ever now.

 

12/10/2007 06:24 PM by Cheryl Hale - South Florida Mortgage Lady (Boca Raton Mortgage Broker)


Jeff.  I understand what you're saying.  However, as long as any score less than 680 will carry a premium fee in addition to the "prime" for 680 scores and above, they are, by implementation, if not by definition "subprime", IMO. 

In the past, "subprime" has been described as scores of less than 620.  However, rates were higher for borrowers with scores of less than 720.  But, they were, at least to my knowledge, not  "FIXED PREMIUMS" as Fannie is now planning to implement March 1, 2008 and which many lenders have already implemented, to what degree, I don't know. 

I believe that by "codifying" these premiums at specific amounts on specific scores, these scores, below 680 will, in effect, be subprime. 

It may be semantics, but when you have a 679 credit score, which has not been considered "subprime" in the past, but will now carry a premium, that is the definition of subprime.

Fannie Mae doesn't offer a definition of "subprime".  It merely states that they purchased loan that were Alt-A or Subprime "labeled". 

It appears that Fannie and Freddie are, indeed, giving loans for credit scores of less than 680 a "subprime" treatment, even if it doesn't label it as such.

All things considered, the loan limits for FHA limit its use in my market area for many areas.  Of course, that's changing too.  If FHA wants more FHA loan to be used, they need to change the appraisal requirement for government loan comps.  It's almost impossible to find them around here.  You can have a contract for $290,000 and if the highest government comp the appraiser can find is only $230,000, that's going to be the appraisal value.  We can't put buyers or sellers in that predicament.

 

12/10/2007 07:33 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Lenn,

What great info you posted here...certainly changed my though's for my customers! Thanks again!

12/10/2007 07:49 PM by Karen Monsour,REALTORĀ® Broward,Palm Beach,Miami/Dade! 954-464-4194 anytime! (Coldwell Banker Fort Lauderdale Beach)


Lenn,

It appears that the investors who are buying mortgage-backed securities are forcing the Fannies and Freddies to improve their loan portfolios before they'll purchase them. That was expected. More might be coming, too.

12/10/2007 08:10 PM by Esko Kiuru - Las Vegas NV Mortgage Consultant (Sinifox Financial)


Ouch Lenn, I didn't know that about them raising the credit scores to qualify. Now that's a good idea. LOL

12/10/2007 08:26 PM by Missy Caulk Ann Arbor Realtor Ann Arbor Real Estate (Keller Williams Ann Arbor)


Lenn, buyers that five years ago HAD 30% down didn't "have" to use it.  They're likely back to square one, with their house value 15% over market (if they didn't take a second).  How on EARTH, with current pricing that is stubbornly sitting, are buyers expected to come up with 30%, or a double whammy with PMI?  I'm thinking that they won't in the present circumstances.

12/10/2007 08:54 PM by Options Realty


Do these changes really surprise anyone when you consider what has happened?  There's enough greed and culpability to go around on both sides of the equation.  First, you have lending side by getting so quintessentially "creative" with their financing options that has allowed people to qualify for a mortgage that would have been incomprehensible just 5 years ago.  Zero percent down.....2 percent down?? The banks and mortgage lenders would have laughed them right out of the office.  You want what?  When?  Just absurd!  I don't have a crystal ball, but the mortgage lenders that we deal with regularly, believe that there is more to come - possibly much more to come - and that this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Then, on the other side, you have the "instant gratification" generation - the "I, Me, My" crowd.  "I've got to have it all and I want it all RIGHT NOW".  What ever happened to "paying your dues" and saving properly for those big expenditures in life - like a little thing called a home?  Who's really to blame here?  People need to learn how to manage their finances properly and to live within their means - today!  I hate to seem cold and heartless, which I'm certainly not, but how do you feel sorry for individuals who got into the housing market with attractive, ADJUSTABLE teaser rates - and knew perfectly well what the consequences could be if the rates adjusted upward - and at their maximum rate (and never refinanced along the road to ruin)?   However, they were able to get what they wanted and get it NOW by doing so.

I never had a personal finance class when I was growing up.  I learned the value of money.  I learned the value of saving and investing and its importance - no matter how much or how little money you're making at any given point in your life.  It always seems to be someone else's fault these days.  People need to stand-up and take responsibility for their actions.  No one made those people take those risky loans.  I doubt that there were too many guns held to folk's heads when they were signing those mortgage papers for that home that they really couldn't afford (other than right then and there).

Maybe the change in the requirements for qualifying for a mortgage, the largest expense and debt in most individual's lives, will return some sanity and stability to the lending and housing markets - and to people's finances.  It should be somewhat tough to qualify for a mortgage.  People should have to have demonstrate some semblance of fiduciary control in their lives.  I'm certainly not saying that it should be impossible, but it should require saving, thrift, and some firm financial stability before people are qualified and able to purchase a home - and they don't need to start with something close to the "home of their dreams".  I want my Clients to be properly qualified and truly able to afford a home - today and 3-5 years from now.  I don't want to be part of helping them get into an unstable situation with a risky, low interest loan that they can "qualify" for today - but won't be able to afford tomorrow.  That's part of the relationship of trust and integrity that we build with our Clients.  As Real Estate Agents, and the mortgage companies and lenders that we choose to have business relationships with, I believe that we owe this to our Clients.

12/10/2007 09:35 PM by Jeff Noe - RE/MAX Consultant Group - Granville, OH


I think you will be seeing a lot more FHA loans and Non-profit down payment assistance.

12/10/2007 09:43 PM by Overland Park Homes & Real Estate:: Michael Russell (Overland Park KS Realty Executives )


Do these changes really surprise anyone when you consider what has happened?  There's enough greed and culpability to go around on both sides of the equation.  First, you have lending side by getting so quintessentially "creative" with their financing options that has allowed people to qualify for a mortgage that would have been incomprehensible just 5 years ago.  Zero percent down.....2 percent down?? The banks and mortgage lenders would have laughed them right out of the office.  You want what?  When?  Just absurd!  I don't have a crystal ball, but the mortgage lenders that we deal with regularly, believe that there is more to come - possibly much more to come - and that this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Then, on the other side, you have the "instant gratification" generation - the "I, Me, My" crowd.  "I've got to have it all and I want it all RIGHT NOW".  What ever happened to "paying your dues" and saving properly for those big expenditures in life - like a little thing called a home?  Who's really to blame here?  People need to learn how to manage their finances properly and to live within their means - today!  I hate to seem cold and heartless, which I'm certainly not, but how do you feel sorry for individuals who got into the housing market with attractive, ADJUSTABLE teaser rates - and knew perfectly well what the consequences could be if the rates adjusted upward - and at their maximum rate (and never refinanced along the road to ruin)?   However, they were able to get what they wanted and get it NOW by doing so.

I never had a personal finance class when I was growing up.  I learned the value of money.  I learned the value of saving and investing and its importance - no matter how much or how little money you're making at any given point in your life.  It always seems to be someone else's fault these days.  People need to stand-up and take responsibility for their actions.  No one made those people take those risky loans.  I doubt that there were too many guns held to folk's heads when they were signing those mortgage papers for that home that they really couldn't afford (other than right then and there).

Maybe the change in the requirements for qualifying for a mortgage, the largest expense and debt in most individual's lives, will return some sanity and stability to the lending and housing markets - and to people's finances.  It should be somewhat tough to qualify for a mortgage.  People should have to have demonstrate some semblance of fiduciary control in their lives.  I'm certainly not saying that it should be impossible, but it should require saving, thrift, and some firm financial stability before people are qualified and able to purchase a home - and they don't need to start with something close to the "home of their dreams".  I want my Clients to be properly qualified and truly able to afford a home - today and 3-5 years from now.  I don't want to be part of helping them get into an unstable situation with a risky, low interest loan that they can "qualify" for today - but won't be able to afford tomorrow.  That's part of the relationship of trust and integrity that we build with our Clients.  As Real Estate Agents, and the mortgage companies and lenders that we choose to have business relationships with, I believe that we owe this to our Clients.

12/10/2007 09:51 PM by Jeffrey Noe (RE/MAX Consultant Group)


Lenn... I know we are both on the same page.  I just don't agree with using the word subprime in regards to the fannie/freddie changes. It's just like saying Historically Low Rates... lol   Remember?  It's what the client will relate it to, their perception based on previous years.

Web definitions for Subprime  and Subprime lending - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  and subprime- WordWeb dictionary definition

Overall, what you talk about has some truth to it. These definitions are all varying and include some of what you talk about. Just as the term 'historically low rates' do. Just as I describe in here when mentioning your post.  Historically LOW Rates - FHA or Conventional -- The Misconception

Summary... certain words and key phrases use in this industry always have some truth to them, but can give false meaning to the average consumer that doesn't know any better or the difference. That was my main point. Again, I don't want to take away from what you said...  as I stated, I loved what you said about shopping and I am using this in my next post tonight.  thanks

jeff belonger

12/10/2007 10:22 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages -- Mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Starter homes in my area are about twice the $300,000 mark.  Our market has had a much lower rate of foreclosures than most, but we will probably cacth the brunt of the cure.

12/11/2007 01:47 AM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTORĀ® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Thanks for this plus the update.  I have nothing substantial to add (perhaps not enough coffee yet) except the comments in your hard core real estate talk posts are always as phenomenal as the article itself.  Thanks again Lenn!

12/11/2007 07:50 AM by Renee Burrows - Las Vegas NV Real Estate (Nevada Realty Solutions)


Randy.  $300,000 doesn't buy a condo in many of my areas either.  I used that number to represent a price that agents across the country could identify with.  If I used your market or my market, many would just say, we don't have houses in that range and not consider the significance of the fees. 

Jeff.  You're technically right of course.  Fact is, Fannie claims that the average credit score of the loans that they buy is 721.  I believe their doing some "creaming" which will permit more and more unscrupulous lenders to "kick" buyers into really subprime rates.  That may not have been their intent, but, knowing what we know about the mortgage industry, it will be the effect.

 

12/11/2007 07:52 AM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Thanks so much for the insight. So glad I stopped by today and caught your blog. It's a scary place today for buyers.

12/11/2007 08:34 AM by Stacey McCarthy @ KW for Philly and Bucks Real Estate (Keller Williams Real Estate)


Renee.  Thanks.  I agree.  The comments broaden a post and make my offerings a dialogue.  I revised some language after Jeff's post.  He is right.  It's semantics, but in the interest of accuracy, I agreed with him. 

Either way you look at it, the very act of Fannie adding these fees is not good news.

Jeffrey.  Your statement that "you never had a personal finance class" applies to just about every American home buyer.  Which is why we must have honest mortgage companies and institutions that manage this part of our economy. 

Michael.  In time we'll see more FHA.  The FHA appraisal guidelines need to be updated.  I don't know about the non-profits.  The IRS is trying to kill them off. 

Laurie.  It's like Congress slapping a new tax on everyone.  They do it because they can.  Problem is, Fannie has the power.

12/11/2007 08:41 AM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Stacey.  You are absolutely correct. 

12/11/2007 08:42 AM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Jeffrey.  I couldn't agree with you more about the importance of having and dealing with honest and forthright mortgage companies and institutions that manage this important part of our economy.  If my Clients are looking for a mortgage lender and don't know where to turn for advice, I have a handful of companies that I know they can rely on for honest answers and sound direction that meets their needs and their financial situation.  I guess that my point with the comment "I never had a personal finance class" was more related to the fact that people can and should take the initiative to learn the absolute BASICS about managing (or simply just understanding) their own financial picture.  It gets back down to people taking responsibility and owenership for the actions that they take and the circumstances that they allow themselves to get into.

12/11/2007 09:25 AM by Jeffrey Noe (RE/MAX Consultant Group)


Great post....got to come back & read it again

12/11/2007 09:52 AM by Katie Evans (RE/MAX Preferred Realty)


I caught that article in the local Real Estate section this past Sunday.  It seems like it's getting more and more difficult for the buyers to purchase a home now.  How much harder can it get?  The American dream seems to be going up in smoke. 

12/11/2007 10:02 AM by Brigita McKelvie - Lehigh Valley, PA, Residential, Rural & Horse Properties (Vision Realty Group)


Brigita.  It is, indeed, getting harder and harder.  I don't know where we're going with this.

Jeffrey.  I am of the opinion that we need more experienced REALTORS serving home buyers with zeal.  WE should be able to guide them to good reasources.

 

12/11/2007 04:31 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


The newspapers like to write about "doom and gloom"  there is always a story in bad press! I think the market is pretty good and where it should be. Interest rates are good and qualifing for a loan should be somewhat restrictive. Like the no income, no documentation, no assets loan.  What the he__ are people thinking. Why would anyone give a mortgage to people w/ no income, no assets?  Come on, please.

It's always easier to sell news with the "doom and gloom"

 

Patricia Aulson/Hampton NH Real Estate   www.patricia4realestate.com 

12/11/2007 06:12 PM by Patricia Aulson (PRUDENTIAL RUSH REALTY)


Amanda :  piti = Principle. Interest , Taxes Insurance

12/11/2007 06:48 PM by


Lenn,

Thank you for the detailed information.  The broker I work with has been warning of changes such as this for the past couple weeks.  That fed rate reduction today won't mean anything with the changes going on in the lending industry.  Keep the good, beneficial information coming.

12/11/2007 08:21 PM by Heather Fitzgerald (REALTY WORLD-Harbert Company, Inc.)


Great post Lenn! All I can say is "This too shall Pass", given time. Once markets start to stagnate and the country finally goes into recession, I wonder if they will rescind some of this stuff to get the market going again. Sometimes taking away too much just makes things even worse. The next five years should be very interesting to watch.

12/11/2007 10:40 PM by Jennifer Kirby, the Luxury Agent (Exit Realty Eden Prairie)


Ouch!

This is more of the predicable same-old, same-old.  Overrational, irresponsible exuberance turns into unmitigated paniced fear.  The pendulum of extreme overreactions swings from one side to the other but never seems to rest in the middle...

12/11/2007 11:43 PM by Gabriel Silverstein, SIOR, e-PRO (Angelic Real Estate)


Lenn -- excellent post! Lots of good information for sellers to take into account as they consider offers.

Unfortunately, it came to my attention because it was copied verbatim by a new Rainer and posted as a comment on my blog!

I have noted your good work and provided a link to this post blog in the comments section of my public blog at Mortgage Rates and Cost on an Upward Trend.

 (And, I suggested to the new guy that in get with the program.)

12/12/2007 08:56 PM by Ann Heitland, Associate Broker, CRS, GRI , ABR ~ Flagstaff Real Estate/Community (Team Heitland at RE/MAX Peak Properties)


And once again, Ann, I will thank you for the public tongue lashing and mention again that I did reference that the information was pulled from Active Rain.  My apology to Lenn for not attributing it directly to her and never was it my intention to take credit for it as my own.  Just for your information, Ann, the "newbie', "new guy", "new Rainer" may be new to the blogging world, but I have 25 years of Fortune 500 business management experience and, along that journey, know how to treat people properly and with respect and dignity - not publically berate them for something as insignificant as your precious blogging rules.  What a peach....

12/12/2007 09:48 PM by Jeffrey Noe (RE/MAX Consultant Group)


Jeffrey -- If you have THAT much experience and such great credentials, I guess I was wrong in assuming you were making a naive mistake.

Now, we're violating another rule of Active Rain -- taking over someone else's post with our own little argument. Sorry, Lenn.

12/12/2007 10:17 PM by Ann Heitland, Associate Broker, CRS, GRI , ABR ~ Flagstaff Real Estate/Community (Team Heitland at RE/MAX Peak Properties)


Ann - wow, what venom.  And yes, I did make an honest mistake by not "linking" back to Lenn's original blog instead of indicating that is was from Active Rain.  You might have taken the high road, contacted me directly, and tried to help someone new to Active Rain.  THAT might have been a nice way to approach the situation rather than use a berating attitude and assume the worse.  Thanks for completely turning off someone who thought that Active Rain was a positive thing and was just trying to help with some information for others on your incomplete post - of which the information was publically available about 10-14 days ago and passed along to agents by all of the better mortgage lenders in our area.  Enjoy your little world of blogging and thank you very much for such a completely negative experience - how utterly sad.  Feel free to report me to the King of Active Rain if you like - my account is cancelled.

12/13/2007 06:06 AM by Jeffrey Noe (RE/MAX Consultant Group)


All this is so sad since my comment did not identify Jeffrey, he outed himself by replying to it.

12/13/2007 07:51 AM by Ann Heitland, Associate Broker, CRS, GRI , ABR ~ Flagstaff Real Estate/Community (Team Heitland at RE/MAX Peak Properties)


Lenn, Just had to let you know I emailed this post to clients. And included link to this article in a fun post about emailing others' posts. (I had not realized we could email blogs until I stumbled upon that feature after reading this post).

12/15/2007 10:15 AM by Suzi Gravenstuk, MS Broker License # 17787 (MGC Realty, LLC)


Suzi.  Thanks.  You can e-mail a "snippet" and link to the article.  As long as the e-mail client supports hyperlinks.  Most do.

 

12/15/2007 10:40 AM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Lenn, I am talking about clicking on the little email hyperlink right below your original blog. Have you ever used that? I think its another answer to being totally upfront, honest--"kind of like, hey MR./MRS Client, One of my mentors at AR posted this great blog I thought you might benefit from..." (Its not like we are competing in the same market). Am I off base now for talking about this?

12/15/2007 11:32 AM by Suzi Gravenstuk, MS Broker License # 17787 (MGC Realty, LLC)


Hi Lenn,

Beautiful post. Fannie's prerogatives are adjusting temporarily, I think. They can't maintain their mission if they cease to exist. Pleasing the end-investor right now is a high priority item for obvious reasons and stricter (albeit short-term) guides should better the mood of investors abroad who's buying up our debt.

Beside, could they actually bolster loan limits across the board next year without safeguards. Probably not. And I see this to be their next move. Just a hunch ofcourse.

12/18/2007 03:24 PM by Michael Tarabotto (Certified Appraiser) Santa Clarita, San Fernando, Westside (California Appraisal Solutions Corp.)