Points, dashboard changes and other stuff...

Some of you (ok, many of you) already noticed some changes to the Blog Dashboard this morning and have noticed some changes to how blog posts are scored recently.  This is all part of our continuous evolution to try to keep things fair to members, both new and old.  Handing out points is our way or rewarding those who help built the ActiveRain Real Estate Network.  Having lots of points will result in lots of additional exposure on ActiveRain.com and Localism.com both to consumers and your peers.

While points result in a lot of complaints have also been one of biggest contributors to building what The Network is today.  As a side effect they also help to encourage good business and blogging practices among members. 

One of the hardest things to deal with is people who "game" the point system by doing things that are detramental to the success of this network to earn points.  No one of the network appreciates that, and when we find it happening we will move to prevent it.  As a rule of thumb we generally don't go back and historically adjust points (exception below).

We've gone through many evolutions of how we hand out points for blogging, each time has resulted in complaints from one group, or people finding another way to game the system.  We realized the biggest reasons was we tried to be too transparent on how the scoring worked, which basically provided rules on how to game the system.  In response, several weeks ago we moved to a computer algorithm to do it (kinda like a search engine).  This looks at over a dozen different factors to come up with an overall score.  Since almost none of these factors we know when the post is actually made, we give the post 200 points and then points for that post adjust over the next week or so (usually upwards).  We will often tweak the how this computer algorithm works to prevent abuse, but like Google have learned that total transparency just doesn't work.  Interestingly enough, we've had by far the least scoring complaints during this time period.

General rules of thumb for scoring points...

  1. Write posts that a human will actually want to read.
  2. Write posts that generate discussion.
  3. Will be heavily wieghting informative consumer content up soon to help build Localism.com
  4. Don't make lots of posts with no redeeming value for the sole purpose of earning points.

Now back to the Blog Dashboard...

The dashboard has become a point of very heated contention, because everybody likes to be there but only 20 stops are shown.  You wouldn't believe how many emails we've gotten regarding it.  We had some wacky algorithm to choose who got displayed that used a combination of ratings and comments to let the system attempt to choose who were the most active/popular/controversial bloggers to be highlighted.  It only used posts in the last 30 days to choose these bloggers to provide some turn over and keep people active.  In this latest update we changed it to only include posts in the last 15 days to get even more turnover and variety, and also changed the ordering so that is uses the average score of the blog posts.

By the way you can also click the By State link on the blog dashboard to see an extended list with 50 bloggers or to view the top 50 in each state.

On another note...

Automated scoring of photo uploads to Localism will go live soon, and everybody who's uploaded photo's previously will get your points then.  There will be several additional ways to earn points in connection with building out Localism.com soon.

-Matt Heaton (ActiveRain CEO)

 

72 Comments on Points, dashboard changes and other stuff...

Thanks for the update Matt, I knew this had to come up soon. This is about the 5th time in a row that the direction you seem to be taking parallels what Rich J and I are talking about. Nice job once again.

PS - can we get a spell-checker soon? :)  TinyMCE has 2 of them.

01/02/2007 02:56 PM by Mark Flanders (Olympic Northwest Mortgage)


Localism.com looks great. Do we use the same login & password?

01/02/2007 02:58 PM by Brian Foxworth (Palmetto South Mortgage )


Matt ~ what I want to know, "when do we get the point vouchers to redeem for new shoes?"  Caleb promised!  ;)

kk

01/02/2007 02:59 PM by Kristal Kraft ~ Denver Real Estate (The Berkshire Group Realtors)


Brian: Localism uses the same username and password as ActiveRain.  Because there two different domains you'll have to log in to each seperately.  Right now the only reason to log into localism is to upload regional photos.

Kristal: I'll have to smack Caleb around for making promises we can't keep :)  Points result in more exposure on the network and you MAY be able to redeem them for things such as advertising placement at some point.

01/02/2007 03:01 PM by ActiveRain Corp.


Great ideas, I've only been a member here a short while, but have noticed some great repsonses and lots of traffic, also helps other people with the posts etf. that I make.

 

Keep up the good work.

01/02/2007 03:03 PM by Rob Parker (Leaf Tech Web Inc.)


KK - just let it go!

Matt, thanks for answering the question of the week. As always, I trust your judgement and direction. And I agree on the need NOT to divulge too much. Someone will always try to find a way around the system, and if you're too transparent, it just makes it that much easier for them. Thanks again for all you guys do!

01/02/2007 03:05 PM by Rich Jacobson ~ ActiveRain Community Builder (ActiveRain Corporation)


Matt ~ Rich says he'll buy me shoes,  Caleb's off the hook.  Thanks!

kk

01/02/2007 03:07 PM by Kristal Kraft ~ Denver Real Estate (The Berkshire Group Realtors)


Hey Matt, clear as mud now:) It's a shame you have to deal with all the manipulation that you do. I commend you guys for all your efforts to "even" things out. I hope this new way of doing things will help alleviate some of the load you carry. Hey, I know, why don't we just try to write quality stuff?    

01/02/2007 03:09 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


Hey. Hey. I called that one right. :)

Using the post scoring is an excellent idea. This might just work to prevent the manipulation that has been an ongoing issue.

I have a question, if you don't answer it I am going to send you an email. :) You don't want any more emails...Do you? :)

My question relates to folks that set up more than one profile. We all know that there are members that have done this. I understand the reasoning behind different profiles. But how will this effect the dashboard status? Will the members Blog post scores be combined? etc...

TLW...ROAR!

01/02/2007 03:10 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)


Matt - I was totally confused - have been at number 4 and 5  and all of a sudden dissapeared.  It makes a lot of sense now and hopefully we will see new faces up there!  Thanks for keeping it fair.

Ines

01/02/2007 03:24 PM by Rick & Ines - Miami Shores Real Estate (Coldwell Banker)


Thanks for always being so responsive to our questions, needs and complaints...   In this ever changing world it is nice to see you taking a very proactive approach.  I look forward to seeing the next evolution here.   Congratulations on a wonderful site(s)!   I am very proud to be a part of all of this!

One questions -- the photos on Localism.com -- can you stop people from right clicking and copying it?  Don't laugh, I really think this could be a problem....

Rich you are giving out shoes????!!!  I could use a new pair!!!!

01/02/2007 03:26 PM by Western New York Home Sales | Colleen Kulikowski (Hunt Real Estate ERA)


Matt,

Thanks for the update and the explanation of the processes. I for one am very appreciative of the efforts to enhance the site, as well as the timeliness of the responses to rainer inquires. Great job!

01/02/2007 03:27 PM by William Collins, Broker Associate (ERA Queen City Realty)


Rick & Ines: I saw quite a few changes to the dashboard when the changes went into effect this morning.  Almost all are simply due to it now only using 15 days worth of posts instead of 30.  This will mean A LOT more fluctuation.

01/02/2007 03:35 PM by Matt Heaton (ActiveRain Corp.)


Hey Matt, please consider posting the explanation of a change before the change is made-could save an old man from apoplexy. The first thing I did when I noticed the change (I think I like it, say I guardedly) was come here to this blog, and found nothing.

For the Codgers,

Jay

01/02/2007 03:47 PM by Boomer Jack's Conversations & Cheesy Stories (Saturn of Saint Paul)


Thanks for the update Matt.  Looking forward to localism.com. 

01/02/2007 03:50 PM by Keith Jeppson - Salt Lake City Real Estate (Keller Williams Utah Realty)


Matt, Activerain just keeps getting better and better. Localism looks great so far.

KK, From the looks of Denver it doesn't look like you will be needing regular shoes for quite some time. lol

Colleen, That is a really good question about disabling right clicks on localism photos.

01/02/2007 04:15 PM by Mitchell Hall, Associate Broker, New York, NY (Coldwell Banker Previews International)


I love the idea of the 15 days. In the "blogging" world 2 days is a long time and 3 is an eternity. So I think 15 days is plenty long to make it work.

01/02/2007 04:30 PM by Toby Boyce, MBA, Delaware Ohio (Keller Williams The Realty Firm)


How cool! My average score matches my FICO!!!!

01/02/2007 04:38 PM by Jonathan Dalton (RE/MAX Desert Showcase)


Fluctuation is a good thing, right???

KK - thanks! Now I've got women calling me left and right asking where their shoes are?!!? Imagine trying to explain THAT one to the wife!

Matt - and so the whole point is,...."Blog often, blog well." Sounds like something Gandalf would say.....

01/02/2007 04:42 PM by Rich Jacobson ~ ActiveRain Community Builder (ActiveRain Corporation)


LOL Rich ~ tell them to  email...you can handle it!  ;)

kk

01/02/2007 04:50 PM by Kristal Kraft ~ Denver Real Estate (The Berkshire Group Realtors)


Matt ~ I have a LOCALISM Question...

When we are uploading the photos there is a "description box."  I noticed the descriptions are not showing up anywhere.  Am I wasting my time by inputting a description or is that being used for "keywords" or future plans?

Thanks...

kk

01/02/2007 04:53 PM by Kristal Kraft ~ Denver Real Estate (The Berkshire Group Realtors)


I noticed the change and like it very much. Kristal, Jacqui is right there with you on the shoe issue. Right now her "summer" shoes are in storage. ;) -Charles

01/02/2007 04:53 PM by Jacqulyn Richey - Las Vegas Real Estate (Prudential)


Hey Matt, as usual I figured out the answer to my question.  I see when one takes the time to open the larger format the description shows up.  Glad to know I'm not wasting my time being creative.  I only have 35,000 more photos to upload.  Today Denver, tomorrow the world...

01/02/2007 04:57 PM by Kristal Kraft ~ Denver Real Estate (The Berkshire Group Realtors)


This is really exciting, guys - It ALL is. Thank you for putting all this work into it.

01/02/2007 05:15 PM by Mariana Wagner ~ Colorado Springs REALTOR® (Wagner iTeam -Keller Williams Clients' Choice)


Have the limits on posting changed? I thought we were limited to a total of ten per week (from Sunday through Saturday), but I've seen some that have posted more than ten just this week. Are we still scored on just the first ten, or has that been revised? Please clarify.

01/02/2007 06:02 PM by John Novak - REALTOR®, Las Vegas and Henderson, NV (Keller Williams Realty The Marketplace)


I guess as a newbie, I didn't even consider that you could manipulate the system.  It never crossed my mind. 

But with Localism, I too wondered if the photos were going to be protected.  (that is why I haven't uploaded them....) I  have a few great shots that I would hate to be used all over. 

01/02/2007 06:07 PM by Debi Braulik (Tacoma Real Estate) (John L. Scott Real Estate)


Do you take the number of page views into account?  If not, you should.

Personally, I think any algorithm that doesn't put Broker Bryant at #1 and Scott Daniels at #2 is flawed, as they are by far the most interesting bloggers here, IMHO.  Something is seriously wrong when Daniels doesn't even show up on the top 20. 

And while I'm complaining: there is a problem with the search box too (on this page: http://activerain.com/bloghome).  If I type in "Scott Daniels", I need to scroll through many irrelevant results before I finally find his entry.

 Lastly, I have no connection to either of these bloggers, other than that I am a fan.

01/02/2007 06:30 PM by John S. (RealtorRatingz.com)


Matt,

Two thoughts - first since rating has such an impact on things like the dashboard, maybe the point system could be changed to add additonal points if you both comment and rate a post. For example, 25 points for a comment, 35 for a comment and a rating. That might get folks like me to rate on a more regular basis and this might eliminate some of the manipulation. I tend to read a lot of blogs but unless they are outstanding or totally terrible, I usually don't rate them. Second thought, maybe add to the FAQ page what the rating system is and what sort of things should be rated. I think in the past you said that if we came upon copyrighted material for example, we should rate it low and this would flag it for the AR gods. This might be helpful for newbies to know.

01/02/2007 06:48 PM by Melissa Kruse (Gryphon )


Melissa and John: The scoring algorithm already takes into effect the things that you both mentioned, but there done in ways to try to put in checks and balances against manipulation.  For example simply someone writing a ton of comments on there post won't have a significant impact on scoring. 

Also the Dashboard is expanding to 25 since there is room, and it won't include Caleb, The ActiveRain Blog or me to open up more space.

01/02/2007 07:01 PM by ActiveRain Corp.


Will update all the FAQ's soon too.  I just created a bunch of work for me tonight...

01/02/2007 07:02 PM by ActiveRain Corp.


Matt, Way beyond my comprehension...I never even got the deal with the other person who manipulated the dashboard so you can change it all you want as long as we can all still blog! What I can't get over are the stats on our own pages (I think something new)...how is it possible to have sooooooooooooo many people view an article and not even leave a comment? WOW

I'm sure what ever you guys come up with will be just fine. We all appreciate everything that you do.

01/02/2007 07:09 PM by Sacramento Real Estate and Luxury Homes, Assoc. Real Estate Broker,Gena Riede (Remax Gold, Assoc Broker)


Gena: It's very normal in the blogging world to have a great post that gets very few comments.  It's usually controversial ones that generate lots of comments.  Even looking at some of the most read bloggers that get tens of thousands of views a day on their personal blogs, many of them generate few comments.

01/02/2007 07:13 PM by ActiveRain Corp.


Matt, sorry to create more work for you. We really do appreciate everything you all do. Thanks for keeping us all up to date on what is going on and for trying to make it as fair as possible for everyone.

01/02/2007 07:16 PM by Melissa Kruse (Gryphon )


I thought I was on top because I'm sooooooooooooooo good looking. Didn't know there were algorithms and stuff. I guess I don't have to shave in the morning now. Yippee :)

Hey Matt why noy place the AR blog in the top spot so every one can find it?

01/02/2007 07:43 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


BB - that sounds like a good idea. If the AR blog was at the top, we would always know what was going on etc.

01/02/2007 07:46 PM by Melissa Kruse (Gryphon )


When you guys close your eyes in sleep, do you like -- see little raindrops with gear knobs and cogs turning all together to keep this machine going?

  • love the stats too
  • noticed the different numbers
  • haven't understood rating, but just did it anyway!

Please do not get to working so hard that you all self-incinerate.   We want RAIN, not little piles of ashes when we come in some morning.

(oops, had to come back to rate you.)

01/02/2007 07:54 PM by JudyAnn Lorenz, PREVA (Bar JD Communications)


Thanks for the updates and the continued improvements. I think it would help to perhaps circulate this sort of info before a change occurs rather than after, at least when it makes sense to do so. But thank,again, for your continuing efforts to improve. It's great to see how many members there are, although it seems like a large majority are not actively participating or commenting.

01/02/2007 08:25 PM by Jeff Dowler ~ Carlsbad Real Estate (RE/MAX Associates)


Don't worry I won't ask any more questions. :)

I second or third the motion to put The Active Rain Blog in the #1 position.

That is an awesome idea and will really help everyone keep up with all the changes that are going to be made as AR rolls along.

TLW...ROAR!

Bingo: Checking out (good way of putting that) with the PASSION.

Sorry guys, that's just a little game I play with my Passion fruit. :)

Don't look at me like that. Melissa gets it. :)

01/02/2007 08:32 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)


Matt, you don't have to work late tonight, you can just point everyone to my most recent post "Dashboard Confessional"

01/02/2007 08:53 PM by Rich Jacobson ~ ActiveRain Community Builder (ActiveRain Corporation)


This is great!  Thanks for explaining how the changes will work.  I agree that an announcement before the change would be nice, and I did look for other blogs that might have mentioned the change first. When I didn't see one, that's when I asked my questions.

I also second the motion to have the AR blog at the top so we can always find it easily for any changes like this.

01/02/2007 10:06 PM by Donna Harris, ASP (Re/Max HiNet)


You guys have a tremendous job before I joined AR and thereafter.  I do like the idea of not automatically getting all those point if what I post is not that great.  Thanks for all your hard work and for trying to make everybody happy!

01/02/2007 10:08 PM by Blanca Cholewczynski, XCO (U)


I think that leaving the AR blog as a sticky somewhere is good.  What about right next to the top 25, in a column of its own?  I think Sharon simms suggested that a while ago.

01/02/2007 10:33 PM by Maureen Francis & Dmitry Koublitsky, SKBK Sotheby's - Metro Detroit (SKBK Sotheby's International Realty)


how about adding the ability to use source code for embedded video?  The Ramble Biltmore  

01/02/2007 10:40 PM by Jeff Link "The Asheville Real Estate Guy" (Keller Williams Professionals Asheville)


So my question is... is the AR blog algorithm anything like the FNMA DU algorithm?  We know that things have to fit in the box, but no one is quite sure what that box really looks like. J/K... I have no problems with the points.  I know that you guys do everything that you can to keep thing fair.  Thanks for the update.  And I will be getting some photos of Lake County Florida uploaded soon for Localism.com

01/02/2007 10:46 PM by Knightlines Mortgage Services, LLC


Jason, LOL (that was a great analogy!) we don't have to like it but it works well!

01/02/2007 10:49 PM by Blanca Cholewczynski, XCO (U)


Points?  We get points?  When did that start? :)

01/02/2007 11:16 PM by Andrew Cox (Cox Property Services)


thanks for working so hard and taking people's comments in. do you actually sleep? ;)

cheers,

cindy

i love staging and all things staging!

i stage to sell, live & work in san francisco bay area

www.staged4more.com

http://stagingtipsandmore.com 

      

 

01/03/2007 12:46 AM by Cindy Lin @ Staged4more, ASPM, IAHSP, IRIS (Staged4more Home Staging & Redesigns)


I just looked at localism.com for the first time while reading this post.  I looks good.  Thank you for continuing to improve the system.

01/03/2007 01:35 AM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Hi Matt, Thanks for addressing this situation. Although I'm not a complainer I was concerned about some of the things I saw happening.  I'm constantly striving to improve what I write and how I write. Aloha, Kelly

01/03/2007 02:08 AM by Kelly Mitchell (RA) BBA, Top 5% PRUDENTIAL USA (Prudential Locations Honolulu/ Kelly Mitchell Group)


Matt,  I think someone also asked the protection from duplicate content penalties if data from AR is on Localism.  Care to share?  Unless I missed a post somewhere...in that case can someone post the link?

01/03/2007 05:16 AM by Chris Elizabeth Griffith ~ Bonita Springs Fl Real Estate (Keller Williams Elite Realty, Bonita Springs, FL)


Matt,

 

Did we ever get points for local photos on localism.com?  I never saw any points comes through.

01/03/2007 06:13 AM by Craig Bartels (Crager-Bartels Real Estate)


Matt,

There is no doubt that AR is evolving.....and for the better.  There has been a large learning curve for everyone and it's my opinion that you have done a superb job in adapting to a myriad of issues. Bottom line is you will never satisfy all the people all the time.  I believe that the success and overall popularity of AR is largely in part due to your commitment and insight which many of us will never totally understand. Blind faith in what you are doing will lead most of us!

01/03/2007 07:23 AM by Ron Withers (Town & Country Mortgage Services, Inc.)


Sorry to bug you again Matt but at the bottom of the dashboard it reads:

* Only counts posts in last 15 days
** Only counts posts "For real estate professionals"
*** Must have made 3 qualifying posts to show up

What does "3 qualifying posts" mean?

01/03/2007 08:40 AM by Rick & Ines - Miami Shores Real Estate (Coldwell Banker)


Sorry to bug you again Matt but at the bottom of the dashboard it reads:

* Only counts posts in last 15 days
** Only counts posts "For real estate professionals"
*** Must have made 3 qualifying posts to show up

What does "3 qualifying posts" mean?

01/03/2007 08:40 AM by Rick & Ines - Miami Shores Real Estate (Coldwell Banker)


Ines,

Posts that cannot be read by the community are not a part of the dashboard process.  So a post that was labeled associates only is one that wouldn't qualify.

01/03/2007 09:48 AM by Caleb Mardini (M2M)


Thanks so much for clearing that up Caleb!  much appreciated!

Ines

01/03/2007 10:02 AM by Rick & Ines - Miami Shores Real Estate (Coldwell Banker)


 "The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order."  -Alfred North Whitehead

Thank you afor all that you are doing, guys! (p.s. Are there any ladies involved in AR? I keep referring to you "guys" and do not want to "assume"...)

01/03/2007 10:35 AM by Mariana Wagner ~ Colorado Springs REALTOR® (Wagner iTeam -Keller Williams Clients' Choice)


Just an FYI, the More... link in localism that is supposed to take to see more agents' profiles is not working properly. 

01/03/2007 12:10 PM by Blanca Cholewczynski, XCO (U)


Suzanne tells me that the points for photos have kicked in - just under 50 points per shot.  Time to go out and take some photos!

01/03/2007 05:16 PM by Tony Marriott, Associate Broker, CRP, CLHMS, CRB, CRS ~~ Phoenix Arizona (Keller Williams Realty Professional Partners)


that is great!  I have tons of photos I take of different areas, need to upload some more!

01/03/2007 05:21 PM by Craig Bartels (Crager-Bartels Real Estate)


Thanks so much for the update and for explaning everything.  I love Localism so far, and I think it's going to be GREAT!!

01/04/2007 03:43 PM by Jim & Maria Hart ~ Charleston, SC Real Estate (Agent Owned Realty)


good post, points well taken, I've tried my best to wite stuff with meaning and only write when I'm in the mood.

01/07/2007 03:50 PM by Netta Blackwood - REO/BPO Expert (Keller Williams Realty At The Lakes)


Thanks for the update, always looking for ways to make your site better, I like that

01/13/2007 02:39 AM by Daniel Lowery CNS, e-PRO, Broker/Sales (Coldwell Banker Gordon Co. REALTORS)


I recently placed a blog on one of my listings.  I really took the time to put in lots of links about the neighborhood etc.  Virtual tour.  Where is the best place to post that?  Only on Localism? I want agents to see it too.  I do ask for comments in the blog etc.  I would like it to show up under Lucas Co, Ohio and also the City,Neighborhood. or Can I only place it in one place? 

Also, I was then told we do not get points for thid blog?  is that right?  it was a really complicated blog, not just photos and room descriptions. 

By the way thank you for all the work you do!!  http://activerain.com/blogsview/37145/5236-Westcroft-Sylvania-Ohio

Nancy

01/26/2007 03:05 PM by Nancy Lohman (Re/Max Preferred Associates)


Nancy,

No points arent awarded for those posts.  If you'd like to learn more about posting to locations and to Localism check this page out.  http://activerain.com/blogsview/36033/Posting-To-Localism

01/29/2007 01:49 PM by Caleb Mardini (M2M)


thank you - I have been on for about a month without really reading the newbie section. I thought I could wing it.  I don't even know what localism.com is or about but will now check it out.  M.

02/01/2007 04:28 PM by Marcyne Touchton (Domaine Staging)


Thanks for the info, I don't relish your job in this case. I'm working my way through these blogs that are recommended for newbies.        

03/09/2007 09:58 PM by George W. Miller Naugatuck and Beacon Falls Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty)


But, what are the points for?  Do we do something with them or they just badges of honor?

11/28/2007 09:35 PM by Christine Loschiavo (West USA Revelation)


Hi Matt,

I am searching for information about how blogs get points.  I am a newbie and have posted 6 blogs but have not gotten blog points...just wondering what I am doing wrong...thanx

03/05/2008 04:46 PM by PATRICE BRICE (PB APPRAISALS)


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