Lenn, Since the lot represents about 20-25% of the value a $60,000 discount is still better for the builder than getting nothing for the lot unless of course he could get $100,000 premium for the bigger lot.

However it goes, the MLS description should be accurate and not misleading.

Bill Roberts

Lenn,  I don't understand what people are thinking when they present some photos in the MLS.  Actually, let me take that back, I do understand.  But what do they think, that we're not going to see what they are trying to hide when we drive up?  More importantly, do they not think that I won't be wary next time I come across one of their listings?  Do they not think that I may also have to wonder what else may be hidden?  Do they not think that my time is also valuable?  OK, you obviously get the point, but this does infuriate me.

Lenn, we have the exact same listing here in one of the country clubs. It was atrocious. Took forever to sell after it went into foreclosure.

Lenn - what was the "wooded view"...the fence on top of the retaining wall? LOL

My gut reaction is to discount AT LEAST 10%.  This is a permanent flaw and there is nothing the buyer can do to change the topography after the fact.  YUCK....Are there at least woods BEHIND the house???  Sometimes you just have to give up on that extra lot and work with the topography that you've got so that the home built is actually desirable. 

Such poor placement for a premium home is thoughtless. 

Homes below street level only make sense in urban areas where land is at a premium, and there are buyers willing to buy if well (lower) priced because of demand.  Of course when inventory is high, then these will languish longer on the market unless significantly lower priced. 

What a shame that the builder did not think this through...kind of makes the neighboring homes less attractive if you have to look across the street and see the house there sinking into the landscape.  Not what I would expect for a home in a neighborhood of gracious homes on large lots

There is nothing at all like setting realistic expectations.  People are going to see the retaining wall sooner or later, and if it's later, they are more likely to be annoyed.  And I applaud you for previewing first.  This way, you can prepare them for the bricks.  This is what being a full service agent looks like!

Discounted or not....I would not want to look out to a .....wall. Yuk. Maybe a better description would have been....wooded area to the side lol!

Lenn,

I personally don't like the wall...when buying a 3 acre lot you don't expect to see a wall within a few feet of the house...however, the wall itself is not the worst solution to the problem...if they could have some professional landscaping done to integrate the wall more naturally into the surroundings I think it could redeem the home, and maybe even build some 'character' unique to the area! JMHO, Thanks,   Fran

Lenn - I am not qualified to answer if the discount is enough since I don't know the area or the comparable sales. I am sure you know the answer anyway :)

Bill.  If the listing had said "discounted for retaining wall or something, it would have been honest.  For that wall, $60,000 is insufficient.  But, they have no concern for out time.  At any rate, I sent the photos to my buyer and he isn't interested.  Can't blame him.

Marc.  It infuriated me too.  Actually, my buyer and I laughed about it.  But, I'm not going to be wasting his valuable time even driving to the place.  We'd lose about 45 minutes out of our one day for viewing.  That's why I preview for out of town buyers.  Their time is limited and I want to make the most out of the time we have.

Missy.  The builder is going to lose money on this one.  It may have sold in 2004, but not 2007 or 2008.

Linda.  That's funny.  Actually, there was a "grove" of trees to the back left of the house.  Not exactly wooded.

I think its a creative use of framing the picture.  An unrepresented buyer looking at the internet would snap that up in a heartbeat without looking at the property.  Glad I am not the listing agent.

Ruthmarie.  The builder did the cheapest fix imaginable.  He could have "terraced" the hill in front of the house and achieved the same result.  Actually, I'm not sure what result his was looking for.  The nearest house in front is a good 75 yards away and the hill isn't that steep.  I couldn't figure it.  Bad engineering I suspect.

Deborah.  Exactly.  Not only that, but this house is going to be a very low comp in the community when and if it sells.  The builder needs to move in it and look at that wall every time he looks out the front window.

Patricia.  Thanks. Previewing saves so much time when showing homes.  My buyers appreciate it.  I preview, take photos, put them on the Internet and if they still want to look fine. 

Sally.  I don't know what they're thinking.  Did they think I wouldn't notice.  I spoke with the builder's rep before previewing to make sure the keybox was on.  These are inventories that the builder really wants to sell. 

Fran.  There is not way that wall could be redeemed. Perhaps if they planted fast growing Evergreenss in front, but that doesn't provide any vista.  On a 3 acre lot, one expects a vista. 

Bill.  The discount isn't enough.  $150 would be more in line with the loss of the frontage.. 

Ruthmarie.  You bring up an excellent point.  I walked that wall very carefully and couldn't find any "weep holes".  We have a LOT of ground water around here.  I could picture that wall buckling in a few years.  Just too risky in addition to being just plain ugly.

Gene.  I'm sure they get calls.  It will be interesting to see what it sells for and when.

My first inclination was to just write blech.  But then I get annoyed that the builder couldn't figure out the long term problems of this on his own and fix the issue when they were at the very first stage.  They had 3 acres to work with!!

I still say blech.

I had the same issue last weekend while showing a buyer around.  The MLS indicates it's close to an acre lot but a retaining wall very similar to the one in your photo is placed about 15 feet off of the backdoor.  From the curb, we could see it and the seller's were outside to welcome us.  My buyer vetoed it on the spot and the seller's were VERY offended that we weren't going to tour the inside.

In all fairness, the retaining wall wasn't in the MLS listing and I don't fault the listing agent for it one bit as it would have killed showings.

This makes an excellent case for pre-viewing properties.

Isn't that just lovely? Not! How many people actually go into the house after they make an appointment? I'll bet they get in the driveway and say, no thanks, before ever going inside.

Well that fence IS made out of Wood... What's the problem??   -Sorry bad joke; it's been a long week!

Yes that IS a monster!  Could they not have turned the house so that wall was on the side of the house?  Who wants to see that out their front window?  I agree the builder should have done something else that what they have done.

Josette.  One thing I learned long ago is that you don't waste time talking with a builder's rep about things like this. 

Their eyes glaze over and they look at you with a blank look on their face.

Amanda.  No need for buyers to get upset when folks can't get by the outside.  Just keep going.  Unless they're serving a gourmet buffet, there's nothing to go in for.

Kelly.  I'm glad I was just previewing.

James.  Who knows.  On three acres, with a 1/2 acre drain field and a well, they had plenty of room.

I couldn't stand to look at that, discount or no.  The inside could have been dreamy but it would have become a day/nightmare for me every single morning God allowed me to wake up.

If this example isn't a great one in regards to previewing homes for clients nothing will be.  I'd much rather be the one "surprised" then to have my clients view the "surprise".   

I'd love to see that house in a couple of years after someone has purchased it.  Wanna bet that the whole fence on top of the retaining wall will be decorated with lights at the holidays? 

Lenn, If your clients like the house inspite of the wall then it would seem reasonable to discount it by 10%.  It is a good thing you previewed the property.  It seems that listing agent was not honest with the mls description and that is putting it mildly.

HAHAHAHA!  Thanks for the laugh, Lenn.  This will be the white elephant until it's given away to someone that, out of desperation, has to have something right now, and it's the only available house.  Uh-oh.  Could be a while.  Can you imagine if you'd not previewed it?  Great lesson.

Latonia.  Needless to say, that house wasn't on our tour today.

Kris.  Thanks.  We had 4.5 hours to tour today.  We didn't need to spend time looking at walls.

Pat.  This buyer is very particular about lots.  He wouldn't go for it. 

Laurie.  I always preview.  Out of town buyers don't have time to mess around with homes like this.  Not a problem.  I sent him the photos yesterday.  He agreed that we didn't have to spend time looking at it.

I'm thinking about how much fun I would have had as a small boy with that wall!  :-D

Shucks Gregory.  The only thing a person could do with that wall is **^%$%^*(  it.

Of course, small boys could jump off and have their first broken bone.

If they use real photos, no one comes.  The "Cast A Giant Shadow" comes to mind!  Sometimes, if I view as if I would buy myself...no matter how big the discount, the negative remains.  I look at it as..."If the sellers call me back in 2 years to resell it, could I?"

Jim.  This home site is one of the worst I have ever seen.  I was shocked when I drove up.  You couldn't tell from the street.  The reason it came up in my search is because it has a porch.  My buyers want to have a home on a large lot with a porch.  They're looking for rural ambiance after some years in the NJ urban atmosphere. 

Some ambiance, huh???

Hmmm.....no discount would be deep enough for me. 

Lenn,

Maybe it is there for safety reasons...when the graded the land they must have had a reason to build the wall. I imagine so nothing comes running down into the house...or a short cut instead of leveling it lower? I can't tell.

Neal. I couldn't figure it out.  Our countryside here is full of rolling hills and many lots have rather steep hills in front of or in back of homes.  That's not unusual.  Without the retaining wall, if the county require that the house be situated where it is, there will have been a steepish hillside near the front of the house.  THAT would have been preferal to the wall.  It could have been landscaped.  The driveway isn't steep at all. 

On a three acre plus lot, I believe a better siting solution must have been possible.  Or, the lot should just have been "taken out". 

If I were a buyer in that community, I'd be outraged when they put that wall in with that lot because all it can do is drag the overall prices down.  At least for a short while.

You're right, Lenn, and I would have jumped off it! :-)  The only thing I can imagine is buying some hardy climbing rose bushes.  They'd have to do something to make the view prettier.  Happy Holidays!