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ARE WE STILL IN 2004?  THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME

                              * * * *   HARD CORE REAL ESTATE TALK   * * * *

Monday morning, I spoke with a prospective home buyer who is interested in buying a home in the $450,000 to $500,000 price range in my market area. I looked at the homes he selected to tour and then asked him, "How did you determine your price range?  Have you spoken with a mortgage company??   I usually ask a buyer if they've been qualified because, if they haven't, I have my handy calculator and can "do the numbers" quickly. "Yes, I have been pre-approved for $475,000", he said.

I'm relieved when the buyer tells me that they have been "pre-approved" because it means that a lender has  pulled a credit report.  Even when, as is this case, the "pre-approval" is really only a "pre-qualification", it's helpful.  As it turns out, the buyer's income is $67,000 which sent up a "red flag" in my mind about his ability to buy in this price range.  The lender used monthly real estate tax and hazard insurance estimates that are only about half of actual costs.  Since the loan officer is not local, he is guessing and the buyer has no knowledge of these costs.  Is this an argument for using a local mortgage company?  I'm not saying that, but I've seen too many Good Faith Estimates from Internet lenders that underestimate costs.   

HOW DID THIS CONSUMER DETERMINE HIS PRICE RANGE???  He did what so many hopeful home buyers do.  He looked at the homes for sale on the "Search Listings" page on my web site.  Home buyers don't always start with what they are qualified to buy.  A home buyers will often begin their search with what they want in a home.  This gentleman simply searched for homes with 4 bedrooms or more, 2 full baths or more and a finished basement, and nothing built before 2000.  At that point, I was just glad he wasn't looking for acreage too, although he mentioned a large yard.  He had searched for "Frederick County real estate" and "Frederick County homes for sale".  My web sites have #1 position for these search terms.  Fortunately, he called and I answered the phone.  I love speaking with home buyers.  Home buyers are very responsive to agents who will take the time to help.  I spent over an hour on the phone with this buyer.  That's my job. 

DON'T ASSUME THAT THE CONSUMER UNDERSTANDS HOME FINANCING.  This is a gentleman with a family who wishes to move from his crowded apartment and buy a home to suit his family needs.  He has no conception of qualifying income.  This gentleman believes that he can manage a mortgage payment of $2,000 a year because that is what he is paying for rent.  He has savings of about $10,000.  This is not an unusual scenario.  Families who are living in an apartment can often manage to save if they are frugal.  In a rental, the consumer has the monthly expenses for rent and utilities.  However, they are not putting money into home repairs, real estate taxes and hazard insurance, both of which have escalated dramatically in the past 2 years.  He will also incur significant transportation costs in the new location.  Gasoline and even the train are very costly today.  Closing costs in the county of his search, even without lender fees or points would be about $10,000 - $12,000 depending on the real estate tax pre-paids.  His wife will not be going into the job market for at least 5 years, so their planning must be with his income only.  No doubt we can negotiate some closing cost credit with the seller in this market, but our buyers are going to be limited by the type of loan they have. 

AM I LIVING IN A TIME WARP?  Are we back to 2004 when the buyers were taking interest only loans to qualify, knowing that they would be refinancing in a year or so?  Could be.  This buyer would qualify for an interest only loan and could keep his payments down to his comfort level.  However, he cannot, in this market rely on appreciation to make refinancing possible.  The difference between 2004 and 2008 is market value.  In 2004, homes in the area of this buyer's search were appreciating at about 1.3% a month.  As of now, homes in the area of search are down almost 2% for the past year.  Sales volume is down 40%.  Homes are selling at about 91% of list price.  What are his chances of refinancing before his loan begins to reset?  With his family, his income isn't high enough for the mortgage interest deduction to be sufficient incentive to go into debt for $450,000.  I'm not comfortable selling a home to a buyer that I know he won't qualify for when the loan resets.

WHO HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO QUALIFY THE BUYER??  We have already established that the consumer are the victims.  The government have determined that the public are victims and have come to the rescue of about 150,000 borrowers whose loans are resetting to payments that the home owner can't make.  I suspect, as with all government programs, that the Devil is going to be in the details.  Some of the details that I've read about appear to eliminate a large number of consumers who are going to default this year because their loans are resetting and they will not be able to make the payments, however, because they don't fit into the narrow window of opportunity the government opened, they will not qualify for the interest rate freeze. 

IF THE CONSUMERS ARE THE VICTIMS??  The question is, victims of whom???  In the end, it is the loan officer who takes the loan application, runs the ratios, looks at the loan instruments available.  It doesn't stop there, though.  That loan officer has got to sell that loan to someone who is willing to put money   

What ever happened to qualifying ratios????    Am I so old fashioned that, when I qualify a buyer, I use some limit of qualifying ratios????   I suppose so.  I was blasted once for mentioning qualifying ratios by an Active Rain member loan officer who commented that I wasn't qualified to look at ratios and loan types because I don't know of the 31 types of loans that he offers.  Mmmmmmm.    O.K.  I'll accept my lack of qualification to qualify a buyer if the loan officer will accept the responsibility for knowingly putting a buyer in a loan they can't make payments on in a year or two????  The Good Faith Estimate from the loan officer that "pre-approved" this buyer clearly underestimated the costs taxes and insurance in the mortgage payment and didn't account for MI or MIP anywhere. 

 THIS WAS A PLAN DESIGNED TO FAIL.  Seems to me that this typifies one of the problems that have gotten the mortgage industry into the present quagmire .  They have a loan for every buyer, even the buyers that don't qualify for anything.  This isn't rocket science.  Qualifying this buyer to squeeze him into a home out of his price range is simply bad business and worse public policy. 

What to do for the buyer who wants to buy a home for which he is marginally qualified today and will not likely be able to make the payments next year?  I've gone through the financial scenarios with him including taxes and insurance and he has agreed to look at older homes in a lower price range.  Who knows?  He could even get some acreage.

 

Fact is, most consumers are going to buy a home for their family.  Seems to me that the consumer is better served to buy a home that won't put his family at financial risk.   If loan officers are going to qualify buyers, they have a responsibility to present a realistic picture to the consumer. 

Courtesy, Lenn Harley, Broker Homefinders.com, Lenn Harley, 800-711-7988, E-Mail 


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34 Comments on RELUCTANTLY RETURNING TO THE MORTGAGE MESS. IT'S STILL THERE LOOMING.

DEC
26
2007
Gee Lenn, sounds like we are still in 2004 as I must have wrote I don't know how many blogs concerning debt ratios and qualifying factors for clients.  As a long time Loan Officer I felt honesty was my best way to go.  I now know it was as my foreclosure rate is zip, as I placed a borrower in a home they could afford, not what they might have wished for, but what they qualified for with a fixed rate.  I can count on my right hand how many ARM loans I made in the last twenty nine years.  I could go on and on here, but will save it for a later time.  Your post here is as usual right on track.  I wish you much success in 08 too.
10:38am • #1
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Lenn, your buyer is a classically good buyer- with vultures looking to turn him bad.  If he's aware of the likely outcome, and accepts it, he's to blame.  If the lender is simply tantalizing him in an effort to get him in a buying mode, it becomes our responsibility, at the very least, to make him aware.  Which begs the question:  "what ever happened to qualifying ratios" that often prevented disaster?  Great post- thanks.
10:41am • #2
You are right , you want to deal with a loan officer that cares for the customer and wants to seem them in there house long term . that is what is good for your referrals and the over all realestate industry 
10:43am • #3
128,015 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog
Lenn:

Hope you had a very Merry Christmas.  I am looking forward to 2008 and seeing what all you bring to the plate for us!

I said this before on a Broker Bryant post: We (real estate agents and lenders) have a Debt of Honor to the consumer to not put them in harms way when buying a home. 

Your 2nd to last sentence really summed it up IMO.  Good job.

10:48am • #4
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Lenn... what's sad is that I don't care what lender you are and what this clients score is. With that income, you won't even come close to that house price. A lender in town or out of town is not even the question here, even if they used low taxes, because his payment is still going to be too high. I agree with Laurie, that some loan officers will bait you to get into that buying mode and then poor it on you, that's if you ask. I could be here all day... 

On another note, I was talking to my dad's friend last night. The automated system is just as much to blame for some of this as the subprime loans were to blame also. Too many people have put the emphasis on high rates, when it just came down to poor spending habits and the economy. 

Overall, this mess will be out there for the next year, because those loan officers that don't care and whom are struggling will pray on the average consumer because they are also struggling with business. You just won't be able to stop this, but we can certainly educate the consumer by writing and talking about it.

jeff belonger
10:49am • #5
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Bob.  Thanks.  My foreclosure rates is not ZIP.  However, out of about 500 personal sales, only two of the buyers that I sold homes to were foreclosed.   One in 1994 and one in 2005. 

The first was a caused by divorce and the second one had the money but just wanted her rich ex to make the payments for her.  The first was a fully qualified FHA buyer. 

The second was a sub-prime borrower that just wouldn't pay her bills.  The worst buyer I ever had.  She was referred by my attorney which is the only reason I went through it.  When she called and said she was going to foreclosure, I wasn't surprised.  She wanted me to help her sell.  Thanks but no thanks.

Laurie.  YES, this is a classically good buyer.  Now, of course, we, as the agents, have to overcome the unrealist expectation reinforced by the loan officer.  He's looking at homes today.  I'll see how it turned out later. 

 

10:53am • #6
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Well, being a listing agent of a home that's been off the market for a month (under contract) with a wonderful pre-approval letter from a huge company, I'd say the victims can also be the sellers.  We're on hold right now, in upper-level review for an FHA loan that has a 50/50 chance of making it through.  I'm honestly irked, because we had no idea it was this close and could have chosen another road had we known the true financials at the time of the offer.  (We had another offer we could have gone with). 

ALSO, think of the pain the buyer must be going through, not knowing what the future holds because some one said they could "make it work."  I do hope it works out, if the buyer can actually make the payments...I guess it's a waiting game...Thanks for letting me vent!

10:56am • #7
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Lenn

Great post raising any number of poignant issues.  The simple truth: as a real estate professional, you can't save everyone from themselves.  This is, however, a prime example where an executed disclosure in your file could eliminate possible headaches for you should these buyers loose their home to foreclosure. 

What could it hurt to have them sign a document stating that there are loan options available, even if it means locating a more affordable home, and that you recommend that they explore alternatives?

Should a regulator or a class action litigator show up in the future, the disclosure would exculpate you immediately from any and all liability.

Ed

11:21am • #8
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<SIGH> we come across this so often that it really gets old.  At times the customer tells the Loan officer to make the numbers work no matter what the ratios are but most of the time, it's really a matter of not knowing and trusting.  I tell you what Lenn, I would pick you to represent my real estate purchase any day.
11:21am • #9
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Lenn - who could say it better than you?! It needs to be said again and again.

Jeff 

11:38am • #10
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Raj.  Indeed.  The public are not served by having loans that are going to adjust to a payment they can't make.  It's our job to give them the facts.  I recently refused to help a couple because I knew that the home they had selected was out of their range. 

Jessica.  Thanks for dropping by.  Folks would stop complaining about how much money we make on a home purchase if they knew 1/2 of what we do to earn it.

Which is why, by the way, I don't negotiate my fee.

Jeff.  You are absolutely right.  I've seen AU approve buyers with ratios in the /60s.  It's almost all based on credit scores.  There is some validity to that, I admit.  But, when you really know a buyer's finances, you have a better chance of getting through underwriting.

Natalie.  Lots of folks think me crazy but I train agents to require a financial statement for the buyer on any offers in addition to a lender's letter that says the buyer has been (1) credit reviewed (2) income to qualify verified and (2) money to close verified.  Less than this, sellers should not take a home off market. 

I get buyers agents who say we can't have the financial statement because it's privacy protected.  HA!  What financial privacy is a buyer entitled to when they expect a seller to take their home off market.

Ed.  Thoughtful comments.  I save e-mail records for everything I tell a buyer.  If we talk, I follow up with an e-mail memorializing the conversation with a confirmation that they received it.  Voluminous e-mail records are a pain, but they saved me when one buyer complained about a home inspection matter saying we didn't pursue the remedies properly.  It was a first year law student who got mischievous.  The e-mails from her directly contradicted the statements in her complaint to the commission.  Dismissed.

The facts are always in the documents.  I agree completely.  Hey, didn't I write about that?  I remember posting about taking notes and saving e-mails.  Can't find it.

 

 

12:03pm • #11
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Rick and Ines.  The best of compliments.  Thanks.  Now if I ever get to Miami Shores. . . . .

Jeff.  it's time for us to start beating this drum about qualifying buyers again.  I want agents to take some responsibility in this matter.  Loan officers want me to mind my own business and leave it to them.  How can I when I see what I saw Monday???

 

12:06pm • #12

"O.K.  I'll accept my lack of qualification to qualify a buyer if the loan officer will accept the responsibility for knowingly putting a buyer in a loan they can't make payments on in a year or two????"

Great post, Lenn.  But I think you'd get plenty of  loan officers willing to "accept responsibility" for this mortgage, especially when they'll probably be in a different industry in a year or two.

12:23pm • #13
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Lenn got out the hammer again and hit the nail right on the head.  I haven't had any previous buyers face foreclosure yet but since I am a listing agent, it just means that I haven't done enough buy side deals.  What has happened is the occasional reality check discussion as soon as I heard the false promises couples make to each other about not eating out so much and cancelling HBO in between seasons of Soprano's in order to afford the higher house payment.  Buyers tend to not realize that the newness of a home fades as soon as the maintenance begins and just keeping the air and water filters changed is more expensive than watching a guy get whacked on TV.  Every body wants to put blame somewhere and I have to wonder what happened to good old fashioned personal accountability.  Nevermind, I know where it went.  It got cancelled when the credit lines were tapped out and the bill arrived. 

 

12:52pm • #14

From time to to time potental buyers come in with similar info.  They want a 4 bedroom, but truth of the matter is that they can't afford one.  I'm just straight with them--I tell them simply that they presently don't have the right income for a 4 bedroom in they area that they are looking in.  I've lost a few buyers this way, but I've also worked with buyers to re-think what they can buy, and ended up closing an escrow.

1:05pm • #15
210,996 Points 14 Featured Posts

when i started, many years ago, our adjustable rate programs had 25/33 ratios and usually had to qualify either at the fully indexed rate or the first change date.

many buyers who call me today, and have been prequalified by another loan officer, actually don't know what their monthly payment will be only the maximum mortgage amount.

this must change.

1:29pm • #16
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Lenn, the only loan programs that I see this Buyer being able to do, if he only has access to $10,000 is a no money down program.  Maybe someone knows of a 100% financing Interest Only Loan Program out there, but I do not have one.  Even if this Buyer had no other debt he would not qualify for any Interest Only Loan Program I if realistic taxes, insurance, and PMI were used. The highest Ratio that I have ever been able to get someone approved for through DU is a 65% Back Ratio, and this Buyer would be over that.

But having said that, let’s say somehow he was able to get himself to a Ratio under that, and somehow got an Approved/Eligible through DU, a Loan Officer would only be able to try to educate him on what a 65% Back Ratio means, and keep on emphasizing his monthly payment to him.  If this Borrower after FULLY KNOWING what his financial position would be, still insisted on going through with the loan, the Loan Officer would have no other choice but to put it through.  Because if he does not, this Buyer could take him and his company to court for discrimination. 

The only safe guard is for Automated Underwriting to lower the Ratio's for Conventional Loans down to the Automated Qualifying Ratios for FHA Loans, and even then a Buyer could still be stretching themselves.

This Loan Officer definitely did a bad job here and you did a good job of keeping him from heading down a bad road.  But even a good Loan Officer can find himself in an uncomfortable position if the proper changes are not made to the Automated Underwriting Systems.

1:44pm • #17
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George.  I agree.  I could qualify him.  The gentleman isn't in a position to spend his last dollar for housing.  He's the sole support of his family.

He can't do a loan like this.

2:11pm • #18
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Lenn, this is a good follow up to your posts on homes in foreclosure.  A good agent has to know enough about financing to help keep buyers out of trouble.  This, I believe, includes using ratios, be the ever so "outdated", to help buyers establish a price comfort zone.  I've found that lenders are virtually always willing to lend far more than a buyer is willing to be responsible for paying back.  

There is more to life than making mortgage payments.  If stretching your limits to get into a bigger place means eating soy beans and spending family vacations in the back yard, something is amiss. 

2:57pm • #19
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Thanks Patricia.  If this gentleman buys a home that the lender says he can buy, he'll be eating the grass in the back yard.
3:09pm • #20
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Amanda.  Thanks for commenting.  In this real estate market, it behooves agents to try to keep their buyers' head out of the clouds. 

A smart buy today will do this family well for some years.  A dumb buy will make the house poor for years.

Jim.  Thanks.  Actually, we can find some wonderful homes in the area for this family.  It will just be a little older.

Jay.  That is worth repeating.  "This must change".  Thanks.

3:14pm • #21
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Excellent! Beautiful! Yes, it is the loan officer who is responsible for qualifying the borrower and I thought all the part timers and temps were gone. Most LO's with experience would have used the ratio to qualify for a fixed 30 loan and not used the ratio to determine which product she should sell the client on. We have a few more weeks of "getting worse" before it "gets better". What I keep pounding on, however, is that the government would like to say "if their weren't any mortgage BROKERS we wouldn't have these problems". Honey, if you lose mortgage brokers you just gained more problems than Dick Nixon could "fix".
3:27pm • #22
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Excellent post as usual Lenn. I truly hope this guys listens to you and lets you find him a home he can afford. Assuming he can afford anything in your area.  But whatever happens he needs to really understand the cost of home ownership. It ain't cheap!! This guy is at crossroad in his financial life and really needs to pay attention.
3:39pm • #23
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Ken.  Thanks for commenting. 

It's amazing when I actually speak with buyers about they budget that most have never done one.  The number of buyers I meet who are not capable of paying for anything other than by credit card is amazing.

 

3:44pm • #24
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Lenn, you've given me great advice and I'm bookmarking this and changing the way I do things.  Yep...I'm going to p* some agents off, but it'll be what's best for my sellers! 
4:37pm • #25
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Lenn,

What a moral and ethical way of looking at 'home buying'...I'm afraid it's too simple for many to digest!!! Thanks,   Fran

4:46pm • #26
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Natalie.  Good for you.  How can a buyers agent object if you protect your sellers by requiring that an offer be from a qualified buyer??? 

If more listing agents qualified the buyers who made offers on their listings, fewer contracts would fall apart before closing. 

If more buyers lost their earnest money when they defaulted, agents would be more careful about writing.

4:48pm • #27
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Fran.  You know that I'm the most simple minded Realtor in the country.  To me, the simple minded one, if a buyer isn't qualified, they shouldn't be writing on that house.  If the buyer isn't qualified, the loan officer shouldn't be financing a property.
4:51pm • #28
543,347 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn,

And our title underwriters tell us that we are not 'finders of fact', but merely 'documenters of fact'...It's hard to turn a blind eye to some of the assinine things we see taking place in the real estate marketplace! Thanks,   Fran

P.S. I think we need to voluntarily control/limit numbers of licensees, such as CPA's and Lawyers do!!!

4:57pm • #29
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As usual you said it all...what more do I have to add to this but.....yup. :)
5:01pm • #30
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FRAN.  I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR YEARS.  I actually said "like the AMA does for physicians".

I agree.  I agree.  I agree.

Sally.  Thanks.  Yup says it all.

 

5:49pm • #31
121,054 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn, As usual you open up things:

  • You SHOULD qualify your own buyers, not trust any LO to do it right
  • Higher standards would be one way to limit the number of people in our business

If you are going to invest your time and effort in finding a house for your buyer, you want it to be able to close. Just because some LO pre-qualified someone doesn't mean it will get past an underwriter. If you know your ratios then you won't be wasting time on a house they can't afford.

We call ourselves professionals but are we really? All professions have standards for entry. Some are higher than others, but ours are virtually non-existent. What's wrong with this picture?

Bill Roberts

7:09pm • #32
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I've been advocating high entry standards for years.  The arguments agains higher entry standards are just bizarre and illogical.
7:28pm • #33
DEC
29
2007

I just thought I would say Thank You for one of the points you have made so many times:

Buyers can usually afford to pay more for a rental than a purchase.

I read one of your posts I don't know how long ago and it was an AHA moment for me. As a homeowner and agent it was as plain as day that a homeowner has to save money for things like a new roof or water heater. And that there is nobody to call if the deck is falling apart. That translates to less for a money going toward a monthly payment.

But Buyers don't always get that point.

So now, I use some of your examples and it really Clicks. I was always encouraging my Buyer clients to be frugal and conservative if they could, but now they understand Why a whole lot better.

Thanks for sharing in the Rain.

 

9:05pm • #34

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