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Good Faith Estimates -- Loan Officer or Realtor?

By
Mortgage and Lending with Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc

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It's 2008 and you think you have seen it all. After 15 years in the mortgage business and as an FHA expert, I am baffled at what some states allow and I wanted to get everyone's opinion on a specific matter. 

Just the other day, I had a consumer contact me after reading several of my blogs. He told me that his previous loan officer pre-qualified him for a mortgage 2 weeks ago and just the other day, told him that he can't help him now. Why?  Because he just realized that his FHA license was going to expire at the end of the year and that he won't be able to help him settle next year, 2008, on his new home. I thought this was very strange, especially since the market will be shifting towards more FHA loans because of what has happened to conventional mortgages. (by Rey Gallegos)  And since this will be the case, there are lenders fighting for the chance to be FHA approved and nobody in their right mind would take the chance to lose their FHA license. This is just my opinion. But here is a good example why FHA mortgages will be much better than conventional mortgages if your credit scores are less than 680. Please read : Will Conventional loans be just like the Subprime mess?  Are the scales being tipped in the wrong direction? Please read more to find out. 

 

 

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So after he tells me that he has been qualified for an FHA mortgage but that the other lender can't help him, I asked him if I could pull his credit. After I review his credit, there are about $11,000 in collection accounts, two of them being about $4,500 and $3,000. I then question him about each collection account and find out that none of them have been paid. I then ask him if the other loan officer went over his credit or any of these collection accounts with him. He said no on both accounts. Yikes !!! I won't go there for now, in regards to shopping for a mortgage

But here is the point of this blog. I then asked him if the loan officer ever gave him a Good Faith Estimate (GFE).  He said no, but that the realtor gave him one. I said, huh?  The loan officer never gave you a good faith estimate, but the realtor did?  Are you approved or even for that fact, qualified to buy a house because of this piece of paper, the GFE the realtor gave you?

 

 

 

Conclusion :  Here's the scoop. The loan officer was giving him a rate of 7.125%, but he still didn't know what the costs were going to be. I was giving him a rate of 6.75% and he would need $6,300 out of pocket. The realtors good faith estimate reflected a rate of 6.5% with $3,300 out of his pocket. This realtor had many of the correct costs down when it came to title fees, escrowing taxes and homeowners insurance, and even a commitment fee. But she was showing no points at all. The long and short of it? Not only would I make about $700 on this deal if I were to use her rate and fees, but this realtor never reviewed his credit. Now, we can stare at the $700 and assume that this might seem like a lot to the average consumer. What's missing, in my opinion, is someone that is not qualified, giving a good faith estimate. Without knowing if this person can even afford the mortgage, let alone, qualify with their credit.

 

 

Little tidbit and I would love to hear from other realtors in Pennsylvania. This transaction and realtor are both in Pennsylvania. I was told by someone that is a state law that the realtor give their client a good faith estimate, from them. Is this true?  In all honesty, do you even think that this is a good idea? Me personally?  I think it's like puring gasoline on a fire. Are some realtors possibly capable of giving the correct numbers? Maybe, but based on what?  What knowledge?  From rates published in a newspaper?  The media?  What are your thoughts?  Opinions?

 

 

END RESULT as of 01/03/08 --  The client told me that he is still checking with other lenders. Why? Because his offer has now been accepted on the 2nd, when he was told 2 weeks prior, that he could get a mortgage. Why is he still trying after I told him it could be 5 months before he could buy. Emotions and wanting something so bad, especially after it was set in his mind that it could be done. And because the loan officer didn't properly qualify him, told him that he was qualified to buy, and because the realtor gave him a piece of paper with costs, making it sound that they should be able to buy.  THIS PART IS WHY SO MANY PURCHASES FALL APART AT THE END. THE LOAN OFFICER CAN BLAME IT ON 10 OTHER THINGS OTHER THAN HIMSELF. THIS IS A FACT.

 

 

A must read to see what else can happen when talking to certain loan officers :

 

 

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Copyright © 2008 by Jeff Belonger

 

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Jennifer Monroe
Indigo Home Team powered by Compass - Charlotte, NC
Real Estate REALTOR®/Broker/Designer
While I know I'm not a Realtor In PA, I know you still like hearing from me :) Many escrow companies give us a spreadsheet to use for calculating GFE's. Only stupid real estate brokers use them, however. I see absolutely no reason why a client cannot wait an extra day to get their ducks in a row by contacting a lender(s) qualified to offer the loan that makes sense for them. I won't show a single property until I see a GFE that I believe my clients can live with. And credit needs to be pulled as well. Otherwise, we're all just offering up shady dreams.
Jan 04, 2008 11:56 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

 

SEAN.... well, I am sure it would to many of us, but even if so, should a realtor be giving out a good faith estimate, law or no law?  

LOLA....  training and understand how loans work is one thing. But giving actual figures and advice is another. Common sense is one thing, but without the true knowledge and training is another thing. Many lawyers are smart... just my opinion. But would they give medical advice and then operate?  I hope not.... I don't care if I went to real estate school and I knew everything. If you want to be good at something, it's very hard to do 2 different jobs, that are different in so many ways. Thanks for your input.

JENNIFER....  who are you?  ;o)  I agree with your statements. Even if someone gives you the tools to work with, should you go there?  Knowing about one's job is one thing, but actually doing it is another. And if they aren't up to date on every aspect of how mortgages work, the new guidelines, new rules, and the different rates and programs... aren't you puring gasoline on a fire?  ;o)  Thanks for your feedback.  And yes.... shady dreams, in which the buyer could be devastated when they finally get the reality check of the rates and fees.

 

Jan 04, 2008 12:25 PM
Ken Cook
Content, coding, marketing, host. - Marietta, GA
Content Marketer/Creator

Realtor giving a GFE -- what a great idea. Can the borrower sue the Realtor if they don't get the rate and closing costs on the GFE? Some organizations tell agents the loan is a part of their responsibility. Okay. There's a mess waiting to happen. I don't even like a real estate agent giving an opinion on a GFE because they don't have access to lender guidelines and pricing, don't know how the borrower's finances, work history and credit stack up nor how that affects the risk. But I'm not blogging tonight so I must be going before I start making comments about telling a buyer I think the re ...

(for those of you who don't know me- I'm PLAYING with your brain) 

Jan 04, 2008 12:32 PM
Brian Corwell
RE/MAX Sauk Valley - Sterling, IL
Sterling, Illinois Real Estate
Oooo... I would no sooner give a food faith estimate than a lender should counsel on making an offer. I can figure up pretty close on a sellers net, but a buyer...nooo way.... Taxes prorates yes, insurance maybe, but the other fees fahgetaboutit. I just want to see the GFE be realistic so there are no surprises
Jan 04, 2008 12:39 PM
Danny Thornton
R & D Art - Knoxville, TN
WordPress Guru

Jeff, I have to agree with Ken on his comment. If one of my Realtors gave a GFE to one of my customers, I would probably have to shoot them. I have gotten to the point where I do not even fill it out as my processor is the expert at the GFE's and that is her field and she wants it right. So, when we present a deal, we know that is close to the penny.  

I would also say this. Would you go to a Dentist to have brain surgery? I think not.

Jan 04, 2008 02:06 PM
William J. Archambault, Jr.
The Real Estate Investment Institute - Houston, TX

Happy New Year, Jeff,

I'd really like to comment on this, but my resolutions included: 

"Refrain from suggesting the anatomically impossible to the incompetent.

Refrain from suggesting "Old Testament" type punishment for client abuse."

So I'm left speechless for at least another week or two.

I can remind you we're in the people business and you've got to enjoy something this creatively evil.

Bill

Jan 04, 2008 02:25 PM
Randy L. Prothero
eXp Realty - Hollister, MO
Missouri REALTOR, (808) 384-5645

I would never give a GFE to a client in a hundred years.  That is why we use professional loan officers. 

I also would not tolerate a loan officer giving real estate advice to my clients.  If there is a law in another state requiring a real estate agent to give GFEs I would love to hear why someone thought that was a good idea.

Jan 04, 2008 03:18 PM
Mark Horan
Resident Team Realty, LLC & Toni's Property Management LLC - Saint Cloud, FL
"The Resident Chef" - Resident Team Realty LLC &
Jeff- I would never attempt to give a GFE. Rates and fees change daily. I leave that up to a licensed professional. I don't need ill will for making a mistake that costs my client their home. Just Crazy.
Jan 04, 2008 05:20 PM
Kris Wales
Keller Williams Realty - Lakeside Market Center - Macomb, MI
Real Estate Blog & Homes for Sale search site, Macomb County MI
I would respond with a bit more to add to the discussion, but I am busy printing off pre-approval letters and GFE's from my new "Yes, YOU can buy a  home!" template.
Jan 04, 2008 07:24 PM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

 

KEN....  a mess?  nah..... you thunk?  Why wouldn't this be a great idea?  I think even worse, is if a realtor did give out a GFE, law or no law, and didn't tell the client that they really need to talk to a loan officer. Overall, I just can't believe someone would be that stupid that naive, not understanding that you need to know so much more than just what you put down on paper.

BRIAN....  I think many of us will agree on this one. And when someone asks me real estate questions or questions that pertain to law, I sometimes give my opinion and state this, but then say... but you should consult a realtor or a lawyer. I have been around long enough and know enough to give answers, but it all depends on the type of question. But I always end it with.... speak to that 'profession'.

DANNY....  at least we agree that realtors shouldn't be handing out GFE's.  But I don't understand your second part. It should be the loan officer's job to hand out GFE's. When you do an application with a client, they don't get one then for a few days until your processor does it? You should be able to do one just as good as your processor. The only thing that she might have a better edge on you is the escrow of taxes. Everything else, you should get to the penny also, as she does. Just my .02.

WILLIAM..... screw those resolutions....  lol  Bill, I would love to hear your honest opinion. That is what I am looking for here. So what you are saying is that I have to wait a week or two?  lol  Please come back....

RANDY..... how about in 200 hundred years?  We both agree on this. I would love to have been the fly on this wall, when she handed it to them. It's beyond just crazy. And you wonder why this guy was so confused and disappointed when I told him it could be 5 months before he bought. Because the loan officer didn't properly qualify him and because the realtor gave him a piece of paper with costs, making it sound that they should be able to buy.  OUCH.... rut row...

MARK....  again, many of us agree on this. And like I stated, she got all of the other fees associated with a mortgage correct.  But she gave out a lower rate. Gee, rates are even lower, but they cost money.  Now, rates just came down about a 1/4% yesterday, so this GFE looks much better than last week... but that is beyond the point.  

KRIS.....  lol  funny.  Can you print me out some money also?   PS.. what are you doing up so late... ;o)

 

Jan 04, 2008 11:31 PM
Marc Grossman
Marc It Sold! - Longwood, FL
GRI, Greater Orlando Real Estate Broker

Jeff,  Definitely something fishy as to why the other broker is giving up his FHA, but...  I'm a licensed Mortgage Broker as well, and as with Lola did it for the knowledge factor.  Actually got mine at the same time as my RE license.  I've only procurred a couple of loans in concert with a Mortgage Broker and that was only filling out the 1031.  I have never done both fully together because most of the places that wanted me to hang my license wanted too much on the front and back end and I couldn't do this to my client. 

Anyway, to the GFE, that is very strange that a realtor would do that.  To me that appears to be a conflict unelss the agent is also a broker, but then that should have been disclosed.  Just a question, could it have been that the broker gave the GFE to the agent to give to the client?  I've done that many times myself.

Jan 05, 2008 12:41 AM
Danny Thornton
R & D Art - Knoxville, TN
WordPress Guru
Jeff, actually all of ours are done the same time we do our RESPAs. And it does come from the loan officers. My processor is just really on top of the game and before I send it out, she fine tunes my GFE for me. It is not a matter of not being able to do it, it is a matter of doing it 100% right.
Jan 05, 2008 01:34 AM
Joan Mirantz
Homequest Real Estate - Concord, NH
Realtor, GRI, CBR, SRES - Concord New Hampshire

I never was of the school of being "all things to all people"

You do your job and I'll do mine! We'll even work together! That way it comes out right for everyone...

(besides...my calculator is too complicated)

Jan 05, 2008 02:16 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

 

MARC.... yes, I think it was fishy. Maybe he realized that he wouldn't be able to do the loan as it was and just decided to back out of it completely?  I truly don't believe in people to do both the job of the realtor and loan officer. One or the other. Just too many changes to keep up with. Besides, shouldn't you be focusing on one business, to make that work and excel?  I think there are many conflicts of interest, even when a realtor says.... oh, they are charging you too many fees. What about the rate?  Sure, the fees should be lumped into the points... but there are just too many facets of a GFE and lending in itself.  thanks for your feedback.

DANNY.....  sorry about that, I was just going off of your statement.  But doing it right is most important.  thanks

JOAN....   you use a calculator?  lol   Hey, nobody is perfect. I have seen loan officers screw up something simple. Here is a case of someone saying that you are qualified, but they don't go over the credit with the lates and past due amounts. That is extremely sad and pathetic. It's not knowing mortgage programs, but understanding that you need to review their credit to a "t".  I can't believe that we have loan officers out there that are so blind to this....

 

Jan 05, 2008 02:30 AM
William J. Archambault, Jr.
The Real Estate Investment Institute - Houston, TX

Alright, Jeff,

You did ask. Start by binding the offenders wrists and ankles to four strong ropes. Attach each rope to a team of horses. I prefer three abreast, for the shear decadence and awesome power! Then after reading the charges...

Sorry I almost broke my resolution.

Jennifer, I've never heard of a title company ever getting involved in a "Good Faith Estimate" cost estimate yes "GFE" NO! "Good Faith Estimates" and the accompanying "Truth in Lending" forms are specific forms, these terms have a legal meaning, and can only come from a lender. You can generate all the same information, but be careful how you label it. If you're going to quote loan cost you'd best know a lender who will deliver for what you quote, more likely your client will find some liar that says "I'll do that" only to have the truth come out at, or just before closing.

Brian, sorry to disagree, but you'd close a lot more deals if you'd consult the lender about the offer! We work best when we act like a team! I can't begin to tell you how many good buyers don't get financed because the REALTOR didn't get the offer right the first time. Generally we finance them on the next house with their new REALTOR. The clients are much better off when we consult together.

Joan, calculators are simple, their instruction books are complicated! Read: Counting on your fingers / Five factors in any Amortization Problem

I think you've got a better idea of my honest opinion, I don't think you ever doubted it.

Bill

Jan 05, 2008 04:18 AM
Jason E. Sorochinsky
M&T Bank - Binghamton, NY

Jeff-

Excellent blog!   I believe allot of Loan officers now are just throwing numbers out to buyers to please the Realtors they work with.  The end result- the LO has no experience with FHA (cant close with all those collection accounts) and now the consumer thinks private brokers and bankers are out to "screw" the consumer because a past LO has mislead them.

My other point is how Realtors today think they can do our job?  Realtors creating Good Faith Estimates or attempting to explain to consumers is WRONG.  They know nothing about these loans,  i.e. MIP, appraisal issues, etc.  yet they think they can do our job because they have been through the process before in the past.

I hope these people STOP interfering!!

 

Jan 05, 2008 01:32 PM
Christopher Ohlsen
Credit Werx, LLC. - Malone, NY
I've seen similar scenarios. It's really great when not only does someone come in claiming that they are prequalified, get permission to review credit, see that they are not qualified off the bat, and before you know if you can even do anything the prospect starts asking about closing costs... LOL, I had this happen the other day ...Once I told her that I don't even know if I can do the deal she said that she does not mind paying a high fee as she knows that he credit is bad ... Turned out I had to deny her. Good post ... Oh and yeah, I think its a bad idea for Realtors to tout numbers to our mutual clients that they don't quite understand.
Jan 05, 2008 04:42 PM
James Downing - Metro DC Houses Team REALTORS®, CRS, GRI, ABR,MRP, MilRes
Real Living | At Home - Washington, DC
When Looking to Buy or Sell - Make the Right Move

A true GFE can only be issued by a Lender.  I will always review this with a client and point out over or under "guestimates".  Sometimes I even find "hidden fees" we get removed. 

A Realtor can give estimates of closing costs - but I would never try to call it a GFE!

Jan 07, 2008 02:12 AM
Kate Crawford
Carolina Home Mortgage - Burlington, NC

It may be that the broker does not have the net worth requirement and cannot sustain or afford the audit.

However, not checking credit before telling them they can get a home loan is irresponsible.  Having a borrower shop for a home loan and not have a pre-approval is very dicey.  Tying up someone's property in a contract and not knowing if they qualify for a loan, hurts all parties. 

 

Whoever  does the Good Faith estimate needs to know what the actual rates are, and not put an arbitrary rate on the GFE. It sounded like the other broker was looking at one of those"sub-prime" fha lenders since the rate was 7.125%.   The orignator should issue the GFE since they are bound by RESPA to do so.  Quoting rates,payments andclosing costs should be done by the originator.  Quoting sales prices and property information should be handled by the Realtor. 

 

Jan 07, 2008 06:19 AM
Anonymous
Anonymous
A conventional or FHA loan estimate of costs is just math...it is childs play.  Buyers need some kind of idea, or guess if you prefer, so that they have some kind of a rough idea before they even look at their first house.  Since Loan Officers are so certain that they are the only ones who hold the math, they are deluding themselves.  Call if a GFE, call it a guess, whatever...  It is an easy calculation and one that Realtors should be able to do on the hood of their car. 
Feb 19, 2008 06:33 AM
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