I think that's hilarious!  I've started putting a line in my "agent remarks" that the buyers agent must be present at showings to receive SOC.  I hate doing that, but I'm not eager to pay somebody else for my work.  I haven't had to deal with Redfin yet, but have dealt with 2 other discount brokers in our area.

My opinion is that they fill a niche, offer a solution to a specific type of client, but they should be far more upfront about the lack of services they offer.  I don't mind discount brokerages, but I don't like that they advertise themselves as full service.

Glad to hear you got something good out of your redfin adventure, a few live conversations, way to go

That is amusing considering all the hype from Redfin. Maybe more of us should turm up at these events and get ourselves some (Redfin) disillusioned clients.

Shane

My guess is that the "scientists" at Red Fin missed the meeting because they were in the "lab" getting ready to roll out the latest and greatest in real estate news. They are not in my area yet, but my guess is that we are just too small of a market.

Thank Again

Brian Corwell e-PRO

Sterling, Illinois Real Estate

I absolutely agree...Redfin is skimming business without providing quality services.  Why a buyer would go view a home without their Redfin agent and then have them right an offer without ever looking at the home is beyond me?

Shane:

You’ve got us dead to rights, and I apologize that we missed the Meet the Agent in Seattle in mid-December.  My name is Dave Billings, and I’m the Regional Director for Redfin, so I take ultimate responsibility for the scheduling issue. 

I’m encouraged by your interest in finding out about Redfin first hand.  I certainly don’t expect all agents who meet a Redfin staffer to be converts, ut at least I know that they are working with real information, and I can respect the conclusions they draw from it.   

I notice that you are in the Windermere Eastlake office.  I was with Windermere in West Seattle for 5 years prior to coming to Redfin.  The least I can do is to meet you and your brother for coffee or lunch at your convenience, so let me know if you’re interested.  While I’m sure we’ll have different views on the industry and how it both is, and should be, changing, the discourse is the most important part. 

Thanks for bringing it my attention that we missed the Meet the Agent.  As you can imagine, it’s not the result to which we aspire, nor what we usually deliver. 

Good luck in 2008.

Sincerely,

Dave Billings

Regional Director, West Coast

206-859-2839

I quietly watch the Redfin issues and commentary from afar.  We don't have the model here.  I'm just trying to learn. 

 Unlike most of the comments I am not an agent.  I am a homeowner who likes to keep up on what is happening in the market.  I have looked at some of the discount operations and once again I am very disappointed to hear that they just can't seem to get it right.  The bottom line as a consumer is, I want good service.  If I wanted to sell my home myself I would do it.  At this time, I would not consider Redfin as an option.  I read the apology from Mr. Billings, which was a nice gesture but the bottom line is they did not have it together enough to show up at their own event.  That alone is enough to turn me away from Redfin.  At this point you still can't beat the full service of a good real estate agent and agency.  Go discount you get discount.

Good Service will continue you give you business!

Dave,

I appreciate your candor regarding the no-show meet-and-greet.  I'm Shane's brother who waited around to speak with the scientist only to watch the industry's anti-Redfin talking points come true right in front of me.  Obviously, oversights such as these will continue to hand traditional Real Estate outfits ammo in the back-and-forth PR war.

I was actually in DC working on Capitol Hill when Redfin testified before Congress, and with my background in online marketing, I've been following Redfin's moves in the industry closely since.  With the housing and Real Estate market in flux, Redfin occupies an interesting space.  With that in mind, it was unfortunate to personally witness such a cliché "service vs. innovation" interaction. 

Brett

Brett:

Thanks for responding to my post.  You're correct that Redfin occupies an interesting space.  Part of what makes it "interesting" is being in the laser site of so many people.  Any mis-step will be given the full attention of our own personal paparazzi, but unlike Brittany, we're not oblivious to this fact.  But when a mistake occurs, you'll always find that the staff at Redfin stand up, and are ready to be accountable.  It's part of the transparency that is one of our core values.

Our customers expect smooth transactions, as do we.  If we weren't producing very satisfied customers and great transaction results, none of us would be here.  We do want perfection, though, and hate it when we are less than that, as I'm sure is the case for every professional, whatever their line of work.

Again, thanks for the response.  The offer still stands for you and Shane, should you want to take me up on it.

Best of luck to everyone in 2008.

Sincerely,

Dave Billings

Interestin that with five years of experience in the Eastlake Windermere office you are a Regional Director. What I object to is the number of people who are lead to believe transparency will answer any questions concerning what is a good value in Real Estate. Is it worth the dollars or not? I've looked at and taken apart to put back together a thousand houses. What do you bring to the table? 

I am dismayed that conventional real estate agents continue to bash RedFin without really admitting that the future real estate sales model WILL be different, even if RedFin tanks.   If you have a better idea than they do, start your business right now, because the world is always changing.

When my parents were agents in the 1980's (including some very bad years, I might add) the agent brought extensive knowledge to the sales deal that could not be obtained anywhere else.  ALL this knowledge is now available to the buyer for free.  Before, the only way to see the insides of a house was to get a tour from a Realtor.  Now, anyone can see photos of the insides.  

In the 1980's, my sister saw 70 houses before she bought her first home.  This consumed vast amounts of the agent's time. 

In 2002, my wife and I looked at 100's of homes on the Internet, and visited only 5 or 6 before buying. Our agent did provide a great deal of help with the paperwork, but once we had an offer in, our agent pressured us to close the deal despite a ridiculously bad counter-offer from the seller.  A coworker told me, and I think it was true in our case: "Once you have an offer in hand, your buyer's agent becomes your worst enemy."

The Redfin model appeals to me because it offers exactly what I want.  I don't need a guy who looks like a use car salesman driving me around to see house he thinks I might like, but which I have already ruled out because I've see the internet listings and I already know they suck.  I don't need to feel obligated to a woman who has shown me 32 sucky houses, but who won't make a dime until I buy.  I don't need help staging my house.  I don't need help finding a mortgage bank.  I don't need someone taking amateurish pictures with a substandard camera and posting them on the MLS.  (The biggest single thing bringing people to a house today is GOOD PICTURES on the MLS sites, and it looks like half the Realtors in the Seattle Area can't operate a camera!  And can't be troubled to take more than 2 pictures.)

I LIKE being able to pay for house tours, because I don't feel pressured or obligated to buy if I decide the right house just isn't on the market yet.  I LIKE being charged for only the services I need, for the same reason that I fly economy instead of first class, buy self-serve gas, and skip the premium channels on cable.  And I LIKE being charged a flat fee for sales.  

BTW, who ever got the dumb idea that real estate should be sold on percentage commission?  My house is worth roughly 50% more than when I bought it.  Inflation has gone up roughly 16% over the same number of years.  Why should the agents get to split 50% more $ between them just because I picked a good neighborhood to buy in?  BTW, I will be paying a combined fee of roughly $30k if I have to work with conventional Realtors, and I just can't see how I'm getting $30k of service out of it.  This is equivalent to my wife's entire annual salary!  

In my Seattle suburb, (Woodinville) every month I receive several postcards, calendars, and even recipes, from obviously desperate Realtors.  But what kind of service are they offering?

3 years ago, when the market was booming, a local Realtor listed the neighbor's house so low that it sold in 6 hours at roughly $60k below market value  (about 18%).  And that was after the Realtor convinced them to spend 1000's staging the home.  At that price, in that market, they could have sold the house with dead bodies on the floor.  And the homeowner paid a combined fee of $20k to the Realtors.

Bottom line:  Redfin may or may not be the wave of the future, but the future will definitely be different from today.

TL--I hear people complain frequently about the money earned by realtors on selling property. What these same people do not know is that helping someone buy and sell property isn't just a matter of fiddling around on websites. There is a certain amount of expertise and experience in negotiating, whether as the buyer's agent or as the seller's agent. Good agents actually pre-view homes so that you are not wasting your time on properties which have cute pictures on the internet, but which are unsuitable for reasons not immediately apparent. It may seem as if they receive a lot of money, but there are long stretches of time when they receive nothing at all, even though they are working. The client ends up benefiting from this effort, but they don't see it until they need the agent.

For example, when you go to a store to shop, the time you are in the store and the time it takes to ring up your purchase is very little, but the store owner must pay to keep that shop open all the rest of the time when you yourself are not there. YOU are not aware of it, because you aren't using that service then, but the fact is, it is there when you want it, and you pay for it rolled into the cost of what you are buying. 

  And one other point I'd like to make is that just because you don't seem to have received excellent service from a real estate agent does not mean that outstanding agents doing a wonderful job are not out there.  You have given an example of a very incompetent agent here, but YOU chose that agent. I know many wonderful agents who are personally proactive on every sale, spend hours and hours optimizing their websites themselves, so that whatever property they list will come up on a google or msn search for "list my Redmond home" or "Eastside Seattle homes" on page 1. This sort of effort involves untold man-hours which the client does not see, but which result in attracting a much wider range of viewers and possible buyers. Some agents spend hours of their own time and their own resources re-staging houses for clients.

Not only that, agents also usually have to spend a lot of money on advertising in order to even get the chance to bid for your business. They do all sorts of other things you wouldn't imagine, such as getting professional estimates from concrete contractors, siding consultants, driving to City Building Depts. to get septic tank specs, baby-sitting dogs, picking up prescriptions, doing the work of the other agent who doesn't hold up his or her own end, hiring and supervising landscapers, weeding, watering plants, and I could go on and on.

 I haven't even mentioned the amount of an agent's time which is wasted by clients who sign up for bogus searches, or who lie about already having an agent, or who are constantly doing the web searches themselves and calling attention to properties the agent has already checked out and discarded because they did not fit the client's parameters or were otherwise unsuitable. This eats up more time than you can possibly imagine. 

All in all, my point is that real estate involves much much more than the average homeowner realizes, and very often those attempting to do all of it in order to avoid paying a professional, wind up in situations where they realize they have made serious mistakes. By that time, however, it is usually too late.

Any of the discount brokerages can only make their business models work through massive volume, which means they cannot afford to spend the amount of time necessary to do the job properly.  

FA, I found it interesting to read that you said the following about buyers: "who are constantly doing the web searches themselves and calling attention to properties the agent has already checked out and discarded because they did not fit the client's parameters or were otherwise unsuitable".

A couple of years back we worked with an agent to buy a home. I signed up with her so-called email program to have the new listings emailed. I can tell you, I had the listings checked out before she got around to email them to me. When I found a house in the exact neighborhood we wanted, I asked her to arrange a viewing. She came back to me with a very vague story about renters in the house who were difficult. I told her we were really interested, had driven by etc. But still, nothing happened, she said she couldnt get a hold of the agent etc. So I took the liberty to call the listings agent myself. No problem what-so-ever, she was nice, renters were cooperative.... We saw the house the next day, made an offer the same night.

The only reason I can think off that our agent was discouraging us, is because the house was below our max price, and so her commission was going to be lower...

The buyer of today is educated, well informed and has access to resources available to be perfectly capable of selecting their homes. Myself, I'm done with the arrogant attitudes of agents...the ones who don't show up for appointments; who show your homes you're not interested in... Real Estate Agents have become like Car Sales Men...

Guys...get with the times will you? What makes you think that the Real Estate Market is staying the same for years and years? Rather than complain about alternative business models, loose the attitude, get on board and be creative. We all have to in business!

TL: Right on!

Wow !

Some of you obviously don't get it ! Real Estate agents are not all alike.  That is like saying you are going to a doctor and then complain that they don't know what to do with you and you give them a bad reputation.   The doctor you wanted was a specialist in internal medecine but you went to a general practioner , they are both doctors right ? But one was only a $10 co-pay and the other a $30 co-pay.  I sayed all that money and cut out the middle man !!! Not a win win if you die from undiagnosed cancer !

Do your homework ! Look for an agent that has many designations by their name, A CRS is only awarded to about 2-3 % of all real estate agents in the country ! That's like hiring Mr. Mayo Clinic himself ! for no extra expense to you.

Wow, would you let the prosecuting lawer defend you in a court case against you ? No you would be crazy if you did that .  Well, for every buyer out there that calls the listing agent on a property You are just as crazy ! The listing agent represents their client only.  You are without representation ! Using the prosecuting attorney to defend you could save you money? Right ! They are already familiar with the case ! The listing agent already knows the property Right ! Let's focus on saving money...and not pay the professionals what they are worth....I can do it myself attitude...  Doctors now have patient data on laptops, realtors now have the internet and fancy MLS system, but both industry still need experts.  Real Estate is local , and has local laws that must be followed.

I used 500 Realty and loved them.  A much smaller operation that is happy with their 25%..They have an office in Tacoma, Tukwila,  and soon Redond I see.

I have been on hold for 1 hour and 17 minutes and counting after calling Redfin's 877-973-3346 toll free number to schedule a house tour in Northern San Diego County. I also hung up after about 10 minutes in my first call, and 20 minutes after my second call, but now I am kind of having fun to see if they ever answer their phone. This is definitely the worst customer service I have ever encountered, and I have held for a really long time before but never an hour and half before now. While I really like there web site, if you can't actually reach an agent to tour homes, Redfin is pretty much the ultimate empty suit.

Mark

Mark,

This a common thread I hear often.  If you would like I can refer you to a reputable agent in the North San Diego County area.  And I can assure you it wont be a Redfin agent;-)

I hung up at 5pm PDT after being on hold for 2 hours with Redfin's 888 number. I did get an email saying from an agent saying she was thrilled to show me properties, but she could not do it ono the day I am in San Diego, because it is "her day off". Between not pickng up the phone and days off there isn't a whole lot of work happening at Redfin. Very dissapointing.

It is very frustrating reading this thread. Everything is being very generalized. Not every company or agent within that company is the same. I have tried to sell a Redfin listed home and it was a nightmare! I sold another home that was listed by a different online/discount broker and it wasn't a bad experience at all. Of course I want the people I know to use me and refer me, the full service John L. Scott agent, but some people think that they will be happy doing all of the work themselves.

Let's compare Quick and low service McDonalds and a full service TGI Fridays. Sometimes when you go into Mickey D's you are treated well and depending on what you're looking for at the time, the food can be quite satisfying. Sometimes when going into a full service chain like TGI's you get terrible service with horrible food. Neither of those situations mean that one company is better than the other, or every worker in the company is the same as the one you dealt with.

It really depends on what you're looking for at the time AND the type of agent that you choose. Try to find a full service agent that comes as a referral. I don't mean your sister's boyfriends best friend, or your co-worker's brother, but a true referral because they had done a great job for that person who is referring you. I am a great Realtor and I pay attention to my clients and their needs. I am there through the entire process and after. I make relationships for life...my business depends on the referrals. I'm sorry that those of you in previous posts have had bad experiences, but saying that real estate agents are greedy and out for themselves, is a very broad and rude view on things.

The Internet has changed the way that this business works and for a lot of us, it means it is more work. We need to be on top of our game. When a client calls and says, "I just saw a home that I really like," I try to be able to say, "oh yes, the green one on 52nd st. It came on the market 2 days ago, I previewed it and it's not what you are looking for because of X reason. If you would like to look at it anyways, when would be best for us to meet?" I can't leave any stone left unturned when dealing with my clients

PSK- Did you ever think that the listing agent only called you back because you were a buyer and he was looking to take both sides of the deal?? That is still wrong and greedy, but don't blame your agent until you know all of the facts. I have had the same thing happen to me where my buyers were able to get a hold of someone when I couldn't because the lister thought he could get both sides of the deal.

What is a discounter? 

When will someone start talking about the discount service, full commission REO agents that list bank owned properties.  My gosh, they do NOTHING to sell these homes, yet they get paid a full commission as the banks take a big loss; however, real estate agents care little about this, they rather slander rebate or discount brokers.