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Who Cares if You are a Realtor? Nobody it seems!

In the last ten days I have performed an unofficial poll regarding Realtors. I polled two sets of people, real estate agents who are Realtors and people who know I sell real estate but are not in the real estate business. I asked one question of each set of people. The realtors were asked "How many times has a client or potential client, who knew you were in the real estate business, asked if you were a Realtor?".

About a dozen agents from my office as well as a couple of agents I am transacting business with now were posed this question. Not one has every been asked this question. Not one. Combined there were approximately 90 years of experienced represented by the polled agents. Not one single time was it important enough to a potential client to ask this question. A couple of points to make regarding this finding. It didn't take into account that maybe some one had investigated before contacting the agent whether or not they were Realtor or not. It also doesn't take into account that maybe the client saw the Realtor symbol on a business card or somewhere else and therefore didn't need to ask the question. I personally do not have the symbol on my card and neither does anyone in our office so I can't see this being to prevelant. So the question I asked myself is "Why did I become a Realtor?". Obviously I am only speaking for myself but my reason is probably a common one. I was told that after I passed the licensing exam it was the next step. In order to get a lockbox key, access to the MLS and a copy of Autocontract I had to go sign up with the local association. In this case it was Northern Virginia Association of Realtors. And when I went to sign up it seems I had to also join the Virginia Association of Realtors and the National Association of Realtors. I have no idea why I had to join all these different associations. I just paid all the dues and got my lockbox key so that I could be a "Realtor".

The second group of people, the non-agents, were asked "What is the difference between a real estate agent and a Realtor?" The answers to this question ranged from "I don't know", to "Nothing", to "You Joined an association", to "I'm not quite sure". Not once did anyone mention ethics, higher standards, code of conduct or anything resembling the correct answer. Or at least the answer that the NAR would have us believe. The message that we are better than the normal real estate agent has been completely lost on the people that matter, the general public. According to them, being a Realtor does not matter. There is no value to them. I'm not sure how much money the NAR spends on educating the general public on the benefits of using a Realtor, but it seems to be a complete waste of our resources. Much like the last marketing campaign that said it is a good time to buy or sell a house . That one cost about $40 Million. Who is holding these people accountable? I think we need to start doing a better job or at least elect people that will.

Posted by Tony Arko on 01/10/2007 06:43 AM

Comments (92)

realtor, nar, nvar, var

Post is included in group: Loudoun County Agents

92 Comments on Who Cares if You are a Realtor? Nobody it seems!

JAN

2007

Tony, this post may get you some heat. Then again maybe not. I'm not a realtor or an agent but daily contact with clients tells me you are right. Most of them don't have any idea what the difference is.

PS - Love your tagline!

Your post was just nominated for some extra exposure!

Mark, thanks for the exposure. I knew when I wrote it that some people would disagree or take offense. I just was surprised at how much indifference there is in my area. Maybe it is different in other places. Thanks again for the comment.

Tony you are right. Nobody knows what we do and why we are here. Who's fault is that? The Industry's? or our own?

Even as a Realtor, who has paid all my dues, I am a firm believer that there is not much difference between a Realtor and an agent. Yes, we're supposed to be held to a higher "standard" but that doesn't mean that "just agents" don't act according to those same ethical standards. Nor does it mean that all Realtors act according to that standard. The truth of the matter is that we JUST joined an organization and paid our dues. Regardless of whether we're an agent or a Realtor, we still have to abide by the same state laws (which are, in effect, the same as the Realtors ethical standards).

Here, the main reason we join is that we're required by our broker - why? because our broker gets charged by the Association for our membership regardless of whether we join or not. (I won't even go there in regards to that!).

I know I'll get some heat for this, but I think NAR has tried (in ads) to make it seem like we have more experience, are more ethical, etc. - if anyone truly looked into it, I think they could get it some serious trouble for false advertising.

Tori and Mark, both of you mentioned getting heat for this post and its comments. I had the same thought in my mind when I wrote it. My question is where does that feeling come from and why? Isn't it our organization. Without our dues and membership there is no NAR. Is it the fear that they will kick us out for speaking up about what we see as shortcomings? Or is the fear of the largest PAC in the US? I'm interested to hear more comments on this topic. Hopefully it will get featured.

Tony, I'd say you bring up some interesting questions that are healthy to ask. I don't know about heat, because I feel it can only make the organization stronger to examine and confront this issue.

Tony - I agree that for the most part, the only folks who realize there is a different between a REALTOR agent and a non-REALTOR agent are agents.

Yes, unfortunately, the public isn't aware, and I don't think there is anyway to make them aware. They do need to use the funds on a different campaign that would produce some results. NAR is supposed to be our organization, and it is our dues that funds them, but I don't think they work for us.... Perhaps if we got agents together to protest it would help...however, it might just lead to another new organization that doesn't work for the people that created it as well.

Tony, I have never, ever heard anyone, except a REALTOR® or someone in the real estate industry, who understood the difference. This is not to say that there is no difference, just that the consumer, the one you're trying to reach with the message, has no clue. None. That's not a slam, that's just a fact. Your post clearly illustrates your anecdotal experience and others in the comments are confirming it with theirs. The question that must arise from this is what are you going to do about it? Is it important to YOU. If it is, and it should be, then action must be taken.

Hi Tony,

I'm a Realtor. I enjoy many benifits of being a Realtor, group health insurance, legal updates access to legal help if needed. The general public unfortunately thinks we are all Realtors - I think this comes from the fact for as long as I can remember we let non members have access to the MLS as MLS participants only.

As Realtors we need to point out the differences to our clients.

I agree...most people don't know the difference...a REALTOR- a real estate agent..one and the same for many people, sadly that tells me that NAR's image campaign still has a long way to go.

I truly believe that self promotion rests with me and I make sure I tell the people I work with that there is a difference. Personally I get a lot out of my membership BUT it is far from perfect and I'm with you about the waste of money! Drives me batty! As for accountability...your state and local associations have directors that serve on NAR that are supposed to express your interests...Let them know and let them know over and over again your feelings.

Like every large organization there is a lot of good and a lot of bad just like individual agents some are good some are bad and wearing a REALTOR pin isn't gonna make a difference if your a bad agent.

it doesnt matter what the difference is....

it matters what the client thinks it means.

if i wasnt a realtor.... and somebody asked why not, i would say: "because joining their club doesnt really benefit my buyers or listings"

easily deflected

now, in regards to getting your lockbox, i dont know anything about it. LOL

Tony

"Not once did anyone mention ethics, higher standards, code of conduct or anything resembling the correct answer."

.....................................

I think suggesting agents have a lower set of ethics, standards and code of conduct is really taking this 'I'm a REAL Realtor" position to an extreme.

Tony, A Featured Post! congratulations. I knew this was a good one. Well done.

Tony- I think the reason most consumers do not know the difference is they assume we are all Realtors. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say "We are getting ready to move, the first thing we do is contact a Realtor" I have never heard them say "We are contacting a licensed real estate agent.". I think most buyers (thats all I work with) do understand the difference to some extent.

I also believe that Realtors are held to a higher standard of ethics. Our local Board has a very strong ethics committie and most of the cases we handle are referred to us because the Real Estate Commission deems them not within thier relm of concern. Most of these cases involved the customer/client and the complaint was brought by the consumer. Without the Realtor ethic committie the consumer would have never even had a hearing. That is one area that it does pay the consumer to transact with a Realtor IMO.

I know before I became an agent and a REALTOR, people called real estate agents REALTORS. I didn't know there was a difference. I thought they chose to be called that because it was easier. It wasn't until I got my license that I leaned the difference. I don't remember having a choice in either PA or here. I was ok fill out this form and pay this.

I'm with Tony. The subject of Realtor® or not has never come up. I suspect our "difference" is equivalent to a CPA vs someone that works a few weeks for H R Block. Do all Realtors® make sure they use a CPA to do their taxes? The CPA has spent extra time and money for that designation, just like us. I think we all know that there IS a difference to someone with a CPA designation. Now we just have to figure out how to convert that same "difference perception" to the general public for Realtors®.

In our area, an agent (or affiliate) must join the local MLS in order to access it or get a keypad to enter homes. I'm not sure whether they are required to join the state and NAR in addition to the local Board. My broker belongs to all three, therefore, we must as well.

Shake those trees Tony! It is a great way to se who is out there reading! Well done and an interesting question. Most people think it is still pronounced Real-A-Tor . Health insurance??? I would like that!

Tony,

I thought your question was very sad, then I read Tori's comment. That is sad!

I haven't been a REALTOR® (it is REALTOR® not realtor) in over twenty years now, but I still prefer REALTORS® to non-REALTORS®.

It's not that most bad real estate agents are in the NAR they are, only because most real estate agents are REALTORS®. Most good real estate agents are also REALTORS® for the very same reason. It's that the consumer's cranch of finding a good real estate agent go up drastically when they deal with a member of the NAR.

It's true that all real estate agents REALTOR® or not work under the same law. It's also true that laws get stretched, abused, and broken. Lawyers and the courts have priced themselves beyond afford ability for minor claims and even major claims in many cases. Only the NAR through their local boards offer any affordable (free) protection for the average consumer.

Most people believe that REALTORS® have more real estate education than non-REALTORS®, that's not true of individuals, but it is true of the masses! As a REALTOR® if you participate even just socially you'll learn thought osmoses. If you want to there is no better source of real estate education than that offered by the NAR and their Boards.

Tony you say not one of your colleagues has ever been ask if they are a REALTOR®! Well "da" you work for a very large franchise know far and wide as REALTORS®! Despite all the NAR's adds I believe most people assume real estate agents are REALTORS®, and that asking isn't anymore necessary than asking your gender.

Who cares?

The buyers care, They want access to all the properties and they want representation they can count on. Justified or not they assume that it will be better with a REALTOR® and they're normally right.

The sellers care, they want their property sold, quickly and at top dollar. Again they assume that a REALTOR® is their best choice, and they're normally right. When you let some stranger in your home there is a lot of comfort knowing they are REALTORS®.

As a lender I care, REALTORS® with their long contracts that say they are not libel for anything play fewer games that others.

Tony your last paragraph is a tragic example of the sorry state of education in America. It's bad that people don't understand the difference between members of a profession and members of a trade association, but understandable they are being taught by NEA members who may or may not be professional teachers. It's incredible that even working real estate people don't know or don't believe the American Dream and American history. There have been very few times in our history when it wasn't good to buy real estate, and when it's good to buy it's always good to sell. We have had an long run of great times and it may have been better to sell two years ago, but it's still a good time to sell.

This is just my opinion, I know I'm bias the best group of people I've ever known (the old Farm & Land Institute) and the best educated group (the CCIMs) were all REALTORS®.

Tony any blog that gets people thinking is a good blog.

Bill

William J Archambault Jr

The Real Estate Investment Institute

http://www.reii.org

Shannon jumped in while I was responding. One of the problems NAR has is protecting the brand name, REALTOR®. It's the same issue that Kimberly-Clark has with its brand name, Kleenex® vs the generic term, "tissue". It's a constant fight for them. And if KC doesn't constantly go after the offenders, they'll lose their trademark protection.

We can help NAR by never using REALTOR® without the use of the 'circle R".

Very well said Bill. I think it is also sad that many REALTORS believe the only thing they get from their membership is MLS...there really is so much more!

Wow... I just paid my dues and this blog is a little upsetting. I am a Realtor and I include that in all of my mailings, handouts, websites, etc. I would hope that this means something to my clients and customers. Your home is your largest investment and I would hope that more consumers would decide to put their faith in a Realtor. I guess I am somewhat surprised at the response.

Great post! We Realtors don't do a good enough job of educating the public.

Yes, It would seem that A Realtoe shoudl be held to a higher standard. Just think and agent who flunks the test 50 times get's the same status as those ( 20% or less ) that pass it on the first try. The DOJ and there lawsuit seems to exemplify those that would like to also break down any possibility of Realtors actually being better trained and or equiped to handle the publics business. yes folks there are outside forces trying to break these walls down. And they are succeeding......

Tony, I did a previous post on what it took me to become an agent who is a REALTOR®*. I agree with you that no one really sees a difference. It's nice that the NAR advertises the values of using an agent but I think people are kidding themselves if they really think that they can use that designation in order to screen out agents who aren't good.

Elaine is right about using the term REALTOR® correctly. I went to the NAR site to try to understand exactly how to use it and try to use it correctly. Unfortunately, most of the agents making comments are not using it correctly. If so many agents are proud of the designation and the qualities it implies, why do so few try to use the term correctly? Yes, it's a pain in the butt using it correctly, but I think it should be the minimal standard in order to say that you are an agent who is a REALTOR®. If you don't want to be bothered with that small detail why would you want to be bothered with any bigger details?

* REALTOR^® is a federally registered collective membership mark which identifies a real estate professional who is a Member of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS^® and subscribes to its strict Code of Ethics

Needed to be said. I agree that the great majority of buyers really don't know that there are agents out there who aren't realtors. They don't care. What does it mean to them? sounds like it might cost them money and perhaps they would rather not. They just want access to houses. That's all and don't care who has the key.

Ladies & Gentlemen:

NAR is US.

There are literally thousands of your fellow Realtors that work tirelessly and often to make our national association, our state associations, and our local associations better for us and the people that buy and sell real estate.

The accomplishments we (NAR, state, & local associations) have achieved to keep real estate affordable, keep our costs & expenses low, and make this profession better for us and the ones that will follow are way too numerous to mention.

I agree with most all the comments; anything that starts and continues good healthly discussions is a good thing; however we do need to make sure we're in complete possession of all the facts before coming to any conclusions.

NAR, state, and local leadership positions are open to any and all qualified members; so anyone with better and/or different ideas need to step up to the plate and let's hear about them.

BTW, while this is a great forum to talk about what might be wrong, what could be done better, and how you feel; actions, i.e. volunteering for a leadership position, committee, or council (CRS,ABR,ETC.) at your local, state, and national associations achieve far more.

Because the Code of Ethics has been brought up, this prompted me to post the following.

Recently I was reading where another professional association with a Code of Ethics required of it's members is changing it's enforcement procedures, because of the litigation issue. In other words if a member were found guilty of a violation of the Code of Ethics and their membership revoked, they could bring forth litigation against the association in court to try and reverse the action. However, this would be costly on the associations part and they opted to stay away from this possibility.

So my question would be how are the Code of Ethics enforced if you have the designation of Realtor?

I have to agree that the general public doesn't know and probably doesn't care about the difference between Realtors and real estate agents. They think we're all Realtors. It's kind of like a brand name...like not all facial tissues are Kleenex and not all hot tubs are a jaccuzi.

I'm with Jim. We all need to know the full story of what NAR does before concluding that our fees are a waste of money. Yes, we should educate consumers about what makes Realtors different from real estate agents-we should all be doing this constantly. And I'll once again promote RPAC-the more you learn about what NAR and the local and state boards are doing, the more you'll realize that your input is valued and important.

I am a REALTOR. Always have been since licensing. Always will be.

The NAR, the State Association, the local associations do a lot fo me and for all real estate licensees.

Folks who practice real estate sales without R membership receive the benefits of the Associations efforts too. They just don't pay for it.

Lenn

I'm a REALTOR® and also an Associate Broker. With all due respect to NAR, Realtor is a brand name for members who pay dues to an organization in Chicago. There is no additional educational requirement other than paying dues to NAR to be a REALTOR® than a licensed sales person in New York State.

However to become an Associate Broker, you have to have 2 years experience and a certain amount of real estate transactions, 45 additional hours, you have to pass a school exam and a state exam. The dominant Real Estate board in my market is REBNY the real estate board of New York which has no affiliation with NAR.

The main benefit of being a REALTOR® to me is that I can put my listings on REALTOR®.com non REALTORs® can not.

If I was a consumer and choosing an agent, If I was a seller REALTOR.com might be a good reason for me to choose a REALTOR®.

Otherwise I would choose an experienced broker vs someone being allowed to use a logo, I personally would choose the more experienced one with the more important license.

Amazing! We wonder why the term REALTOR® doesn't mean anything. Just look at the comments in this article and see how many didn't use the ® and how many use it as a generic term to imply real estate agent. Adding the ® isn't difficult.

Hit your NUM-LOC key.
Then hold down the ALT key.
Using the keypad numbers, type 0174. These are the numbers that share a key with "mj&u".
When you're done the ® will show up.

In reading through the comments several things stand out. One is the protection the consumer has when they deal with Realtors versus Non-Realtors by way of an ethics committee. The question is "Does the general public know this?. Second is the notion that the general public is under the impression that if you sell real estate you are a Realtor. Has the term Realtor become generic much like the word Kleenex has, or Xerox use to have? Interesting and definitely possible. But is that a good thing? Also, a point was made that these blogs are great but action is better. I couldn't agree more. I appreciate everyone's comments on the topic. Somehow I think this will lead to a better profession, I'm just not sure of how quite yet.

While I agree with everything about the NAR. I have to wonder why "You joined an association" isn't the right answer?

Beyond paying our ~$800 per year what are we required to do to be a member of the NAR? Now we have to take additional an additional ethics class by 2008, but that is just coming into being. Now, I think that the addtional ethics and if they continue to implement additional requirements to be a member -- then maybe the difference will be more pronounced.

Elaine, what does it mean if you don't use the ®? And is it our fault or the fault of the NAR that we use the term incorrectly.

Elaine :: you wrote:

"Adding the ® isn't difficult.

Hit your NUM-LOC key.
Then hold down the ALT key.
Using the keypad numbers, type 0174. These are the numbers that share a key with "mj&u".
When you're done the ® will show up."

That sounds ridiculously hard to me, because I'm not a PC guy, I'm a Mac guy, and adding the ® on a Mac only requires hitting "option-r". I know there is one slightly simpler way on the PC - hold down then alt key while typing 0174 on the numeric pad. Still, not that simple and hard to remember, given all the passwords and other stuff forced into our brains.

Just another reason why I love my Mac. :) (That's for Craig Bartels) If there is an easier way of doing this on the PC, can someone share it?

Be proactive...get involved and let your voice be heard Tony.

Elaine is right... REALTOR® a trade mark for all REALTOR®S to use. I always use the trademark ® in my printed material...in my comments/conversation...I let it slip. I also always use it in all Caps..as it should be. Casual conversation like in these comments it doesn't bother me but in main blogs/advertising and on signatures it is wrong.

Elaine you need to fix your sig line :)

Jim said we are NAR..all of us and volunteering for a leadership position, committee, or council at your local, state, and national associations achieves far more.

I've been a REALTOR® for 22 years..I blogged about my feelings here if you'd like to read it. You look hard enough you'll find bad everywhere...just depends on what you want to find.

Tony great discussion.

Tony, the average customer that I've dealt with never ask that question before. So I think to them that it does not matter. What really matters to them is the fact that we can help them.

Great responses...I'am surprised not one comment regarding the dues we all pay as opposed to no dues for non RealtorsR, and the R pin. I guess not many consumers recognize the R or we are not wearing it enough, or maybe that ad campaign needs to be rethought

Thanks Elaine for letting me know how to add the ® to my blog. I've been trying to figure that one out for a while.

As for the status of Realtors®, it will be whatever we decide it will be. We are members of the organization, vote on our leaders, and can participate in or at least communicate with leadership. If we hold ourselves and other Realtors® to a higher standard then eventually that standard will filter down to the general public. If we rely on advertisements to do this, we are destined to failure.

Some have said to hold yourself to a higher standard and to become more involved. I agree that the former produces results, but not so much the latter.

Though I have tried to figure out how little 'ol me can communicate my feedback to NAR and get proof that someone actually read my input, I have yet to get a "Thank you for your feedback" or a follow up to my correspondence.

Has anyone else shared the same fate as me? Has anyone actually heard back from NAR?

Interesting and timely subject.....

There's a lot of "educate the public" comments when there should be more discussion about "educate the Realtors". I'm a consumer and NOTHING I've experienced lends me to the conclusion there's any difference between a Realtor and a real estate agent. How you conduct yourself defines a professional; not any organization and unless the organization holds their membership ACCOUNTABLE, what difference will membership make in the eyes of the public? I didn't even know the term was a trademark until I read where the NAR was trying to enforce it's use. It's laughable for them to guard a term that has little or no meaning to the general public; but it is theirs so maybe someone can add the "circle r" so it's used properly in my comments....there's no "circle r" key on my computer.

My opinion, and that's all it is, was formed by experience; not something I read or someone else shared. I could list specifics but what good would it do and you probably wouldn't believe me anyway.

Regards,

Stan

Just saw the comment on how to do the "circle r".....thanks.

Tony,

My response here:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/33629/Can-one-be-both

I needed to twist the subject a bit to answer in full. But let me say that unbundling the MLS from the Realtor Organization, as we do here...is the first step. Then the Realtor Organization will stand on it's own merits. More areas need to do that.

I say this in memory of Lois Hekker...who died trying.

® ® ® .... I did it !! I learned something new !! Thank you Elain Reese !!

When I tell my Buyers that I am a Realtor® they give me a blank look....They don't understand that there is a difference. I have high standards and ethics whether I'm a Realtor® or not....

Great Post !!

OMG, Monika caught me!!!! You see it's the new computer - it's NUMLOC works different than the old computer. Or at least, I'll blame the computer. It's been fixed, but apparently it doesn't go back to change the sig on prior comments.

®®®®®®®

I copied and pasted :^)

A "Circle R" does not an accountable professional make. We can all look around us and see those with "Circle Rs" that do not personify the standards that the organization puts forth. To me, the standards of practice and Code of Ethics embodied in that "Circle R" are for our benefit as real estate professionals, in terms of our communication, dealings, and expectations with and of one another. They have little, and should have little, to do with perception by the public. The consumer will know, before, during, and after their transaction whether you are a professional of high standards and worthy of any designations. Great blog!

I was sitting in a waiting room today and I made a call to one of my clients talking about a deal we're doing and how I needed some information from him. When I hung up, the lady sitting across from me says, "Not to be listening to you or anything, but are you a Realtor?" I replied "Yes, yes I am."

I think people, average Joe and Jane, think the terms are interchangable and a realtor is the same as a real estate agent. The good news to being early for my appt and running into her is that she's going through a divorce and needs a place to live!!! Bingo!!

Sorry Eliane:) I couldn't help it.

It looks much better now.

Most clients don't know the different? Realtors likely need to do a better job marketing just what that title gets their client over just a real estate agent....

Wow! Being a rookie (less then 12mo licensed) it felt like a stroll down memory lane reading these posts. Like Tony, I live in VA and had to follow very similar procedures when i became licensed and joined my firm. My firm does believe in the power of being a REALTOR®(thanx Elaine) and REQUIRES each agent to join and maintain membership. New agents also MUST complete post cont. ed within 3mos to ensure our firm can be held not only to the strict levels of ethics and laws bound by VREB but to our customers and future clients.

In my area, there are a few different MLS boards. One in particular REIN, is currently not operated under a REALTOR® association and non-REALTORS® can join to use their lockbox, key, and access the MLS to list/sell. It just annoys me to pieces to listen to non-REALTORS® use OUR trademark because they consider the public too stupid to know the difference because all the public remembers are NAR's ad's promoting higher standards and so they blindy trust that the entire real estate career holds the same trademark and standards. Well shame on those real estate agents, how dare they con a consumer! Talk about code of ethics at state level ,let alone NAR level, deceiving the general public, lying about who you are should send red flags to the consumer that if they lie about a trademark..what else will they lie about?

The smartest thing I did while I was in pre-licensing class was read the NAR's flyer on how to correctly use the trademark. I was shocked and have corrected and education anyone in my path who questions the trademark and or incorrectly uses it. Some have said "Autumn, if you were a man you'd have some pretty big balls" as I have defended the trademark use against some very prominent real estate agents who didn't being to a REALTOR® assoc. OR who did and didn't correctly use the term.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Help me educate the public by printing the REALTOR® code of ethics and when is a real estate agent a REALTOR® and put these print outs in every relocation package, contract package, advertising, websites, etc.

http://www.relocatingheroes.com I am proud to be a member of the Virginia Pennisula Association of REALTORS®, Virginia Association of REALTORS®, and the National Association of REALTORS®

In my over 10 year career, I have never had anyone (client or associate) ask me if I was a "Realtor®"? I am, but I truly don't think it matters to anyone. Just another way for them to collect fees and sell our name's for a profit.

Tony- Facinating post. Not much more I can add to the remarks here.

On my blogs I've been able to use the trademark. I type REALTOR® Ive been trying the num lock and alt 0174 and nothing types.

Rob, copy and paste...thank you REALTOR®

Tony, Brava, Encore. Amazing that someone else has the backbone to speak up. I speak up and question at every turn. I've been in this business for a year. I've done everything I was told to do. Except one thing. I did not become a Realtor. I didn't see the point. I know what my ethics are; I know that I'm a brutally honest person. I believe that it would be the stupidest thing in the world for me to not educate myself so I don't make a mistake that's so bad it needs to be argued before a faceless board. The other reason I didn't join was because as a new agent the prospect of shelling out $400 was outrageous. I went to school, I got my license and I was paying dues to my office already. It was either make my house payment or join the local Board. I don't believe in PAC's, I don't believe in heavy handed governance. To me that's all NAR is. I'm a Libertarian, as such I believe in personal and moral responsibility. I took responsibility for my schooling (paid for by me), I took responsibility with accepting the state license (paid for by me), I've risked my own property and lifestyle in order to build a better future for myself and I'd be a damned fool to not practice real estate with the utmost integrity. I'm an adult, I think I can be trusted to do the right thing. I also know there are consequences to doing the wrong thing. I certainly don't need a glorified political association to hold me to the standards that are even less than the ones I set for myself. I certainly shouldn't have to pay money just so I can tell people I've taken an ethics course. I display my ethics with my work. Thank you for posting this. I hope I haven't run on with my comments too long.

Tony, I have had a few clients ask me, "Are you a Realtor?". I let them know that I was, and they never brought it up again. It happened right after our local paper posted the top 10 questions you should ask your agent. To me they should have followed it up with "What are the benefit of working with a Realtor?". I find most people assume a Realtor and a Real Estate agent are the same. They don't even understand it is an association.

I agree with the fact we need to get the NAR educating the general public about the benefits of working with a Realtor. They already do alot, but doing this would benefit both parties. The more people want to work with a Realtor, the more agents want to join the association. Great post!

Mitchell - sounds like you're not using the right key pad. If you have a full size keyboard, use the numbers on the right hand side. If you have a compressed key board, such as what I have on my laptop, you should use the numbers that are found in the alpha portion of the key board. These numbers are shown with the alpha letters M-J-7-U. Hold down the ALT key while typing these four letter/numbers.

Hey there Tony - I wrote something similar a week or two ago... I got a little heat but not so much - and I was a lot more caustic! Maybe you were one of those who joined in the fun!

Today, I'm having another bash... on the subject of whether or not Realtors are still relevant? This was one of the questions posed at this week's New York Connect real estate conference. With all the chatter about Realtors, you might be suprised to find out that not all agents even know the difference!

Jim Lee hit the nail on the head. Me? I am not a realtor, but go back and read his comment. I would have to agree that you, the realtors, are NAR. Sure, it's an organization which key people that over-look it... but use your voice, stand up...and challenge it.... making people understand it more. It's called, educating..

JAN

2007

Is it true that a Realtor is more likely to be ethical in their real estate transactions than a real estate agent?

Sounds a lot like Band-aid to me.

oops, sorry I forgot that little symbols after the word realtor. oops, did it again :)

I need a kleenex, I mean tissue........

Still, you have to admire NAR's business model. Take a group of people, used house salesmen (and yes, I am one, and a Realtor® too), who are frequently despised or disparaged as unethical, and charge them good money for a designation that supposedly makes them more ethical than they would have been without the designation.

I call their business model "Reputation Laundering".

That, as you point out, they can charge so much for it and deliver no results is even more a "credit" to them -- if you consider that creditable. We at least sell shelters that people can really live in.

Ethics is an internal option for all of us regardless of the coat we wear. We run into this with selling memebership to the Mortgage Bankers Association. Fact of the matter is a smelly crook in a nice suit...still stinks.

Great post.

Great Post. I agree that most people have no idea that the term REALTOR was coined by NAR and that not every agent is a REALTOR, nor what it means to be one. I believe an educational campaign is in order to create better awareness of what the difference between an agent and a REALTOR is. I know NAR has had campaigns like that, but maybe they need to roll them out again and in a little more extensive manner.

Thanks for not being afraid to take a little possible heat Tony!

I want to thank everyone for the comments. I have been enlightened with regard to a couple of areas by several of you. And some of the comments made me go to the NAR web site and read what they think the benefits are of being a Realtor. It is interesting that on their list of 7 benefits, ethics is 5 and consumer awareness is 6. Maybe that is the problem. I have sent a link to this post and it is now in the public affairs department inbox. Let's see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

Maggie & all - you and the rest of the Realtors (R) :^)...... can start right here on education. What are the significant differences between an agent and a REALTOR (R). ? Please, not the 'higher ethics' line....I mean "the meat". What are the significant differences?

I approach each position the same from a Title perspective. The consumers I know, do the same.

This blog is FILLED with suggestions of 'better education to the public' by NAR..... but very little substance as to what TRULY differentiates an agent from a REALTOR (R) . So, how and why should I treat one different from the other?

Regards,

Your Favorite Ignorant Title Guy

Tony - thanks for the link. I'm normally a 'search guy' but was following this thread and its various comments as opposed to finding out on my own. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the #1 benefit. From a CONSUMER standpoint... this is why I chose a member versus a non-member?

Representation

Making sure that your voice is heard is one of the primary advantages of being a member. From lobbying to grassroots advocacy, the power of being part of over one million members works for you on Capitol Hill every day. Learn more about NAR's Government Affairs activities and RPAC, the largest and most influential PAC.

Okay, I've heard enough of this nonsense about using the ® when using the term realtor. I can tell you that there's absolutely no need to bother in this kind of forum. So get your kickers out of a twist and worry about something other than the notion that you might get sued because you can't find the ® on your keyboard.

Rob, It's kinda scary, isn't it. Also, the whole REALTORs are more ethical argument makes me cringe. I took ethics classes in college and a code in a magazine does not make your members ethical. I haven't been to one required ethics class since I became a REALTOR, but I am no more ethical now than I was before.

Question,

Isn't the ® supposed to be in Superscript? If so...are many on here using it correctly?

And Marcus - I agree with you 100%....BUT...I'm not a Realtor.

Ok, how about this: All the non-realtors - let's get together and start a class action lawsuit against NAR for libel, by constantly suggesting that non-realtors are not ethical/not as good/not to be trusted. Email me at Marcus@condometropolis.com (Ooh, this one's sure to go down well!)

What I hate about many agents is how they play with words and meanings. By using a little word, they can change the entire meaning of something and technically get away without lying.

I went to the NAR site where it defines what a REALTOR® is and have pasted it below. Look closely at how they describe designations. A normal person would think that they are describing what it takes to earn the designation of REALTOR® , but they state "to earn a designation" instead of "to earn the designation" . This small change of a word misleads the public to think that a REALTOR® has demonstrated specific skills, performance and knowledge in a particular area of the real estate industry when we all know that it isn't true.

This is just on par with all of the little things that agents do to lead the public to mistrust what they say. I'm ashamed at this misrepresentation.

When is a Real Estate Agent a REALTOR®?
The term REALTOR® is a registered collective membership mark that identifies a real estate professional who is a member of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION of REALTORS® and subscribes to its strict Code of Ethics.
Read more >

Designations
To earn a designation, a REALTOR® has taken coursework and demonstrated specific skills, performance and knowledge in a particular area of the real estate industry.
Read more >

Tim I read your posting above and went to both parts of Realtor.org you reference (which are two different pages about two different subjects)

A REALTOR® is a member of NAR; it's not a designation.

A designation would be something like the CRS or ABR designation NAR confers; they are apples and oranges.

I don't see where anything has been misrepresented; could you please point it out to me?

Tony said: In reading through the comments several things stand out. One is the protection the consumer has when they deal with Realtors versus Non-Realtors by way of an ethics committee. The question is "Does the general public know this?.

REBNY The Real estate board of New York has an ethics committee. REBNY members do not have to belong to NAR. REBNY is not a REALTOR® organization. REBNY is the dominant real estate board in NYC and is not part of a national organization.

Jim- Here is the link to the page I reference. It's titled "About REALTORS®"

After reading all of these posts lately, I wanted to find out what exactly a REALTOR® meant. So I went to that page where it describes a REALTOR® to find some good marketing points that I could use. Upon reading the page, I thought that maybe I had skipped some classes or something. I knew I didn't have to do anything special. It doesn't say that many or some or most REALTORS® get extra designations which involve extra training and specialization. It makes it sound like extra training and specialization is required to become a designated REALTOR®. It's a fine point, but I think this is how the public is lead to believe something that isn't necessarily what the reality is.

Mitchell, you bring up a good point and it made me go back and do some research. If there is protection for a consumer who does business with a real estate agent who is a REALTOR it is not readily apparent anywhere I could find on the website. If I was a consumer I would have no idea what to do if I felt I had been treated unethically. The website states that you can count on a realtor during a transaction. But that is it. No explanation why, just a link to the code of ethics. The implication is that if we have a code of ethics we must be ethical. I don't think it is that easy. In fact, I know it is not that easy. I can't find any channel on the website for a complaint about a REALTOR. Or any explanation as to how NAR makes sure their members are ethical. I stand corrected. Thanks for the comment.

Tony-

I followed your link in your post to Mitchell and at the bottom of the page is a link to the Pledge of Performance. On the POP it states the following:

"The National Association of REALTORS® adopted the Code of Ethics in 1913, following the professions of medicine,law,and engineering. REALTORS® are real estate professionals who have chosen to join the National Association and abide by its strict Code of Ethics. What does that mean to you? It means that any REALTOR® with whom you work has voluntarily agreed to abide by the Code of Ethics, based on professionalism and protection of the public. REALTORS® are subject to discipilinary action and sanctions if they violate the duties imposed by the Code of Ethics. (THIS IS SHANNON, I AM SKIPPING THE MIDDLE BECAUSE IT IS JUST EXPLANING THERE ARE 17 ARTICLES AND SO ON) Please note that the following is not a substitue for the Code, but simply a general overview of the Code's key principles. For additional information about the Code of Ethics and its enforcement, speak with a REALTOR® or contact the local association of REALTORS nearest you."

So there is proof that the consumers have rights through the COE, but that should be on the front page of the website not buried and I think should be a mandantory SIGNED disclosure for every transaction.

Well put Shannon. Thanks for your comment.

I serve on the professional standards committees both locally and on a NAR level.

I have sat on hearings that were brought by the members of the public ...I have been assigned to be a liaison for the public as well. So I know that if the public has an issue they will call our Local Board office or our state association and they will get help!

In NH the public uses our code as does the court system. It is a valuable piece...and I am bound by it. Most of the REALTORS in NH use the code in their marketing...cma presentations and buyer tool kits. It benefits the public as well as REALTORS. I use our R in ads...I wear my REALTOR pin nearly all the time and have gotten business because of the pin. I use my REALTOR membership...I get more than my monies worth from my membership. And I personally know that the public uses it too. perhaps you should call your board office and ask if they ever have had ethics hearings that involve the public...you might be surprised with answer.

Nice topic.

I like being a Realtor because of Realtor.com. It is an easy place for folks to search for listings all over the country without going to many sites.

I agree that the public thinks all real estate salespersons are Realtors and that is ok with me. I like being able to tell my clients, yes, I am a Realtor and here is what that means. This is more positive than having to explain why I am not a Realtor.

The name Realtor® has a great sense of professionalism to me. To most of my counterparts, as I have read, feel the same way. We often take pride in what we do and how we conduct our business. It is very true that there are bad real estate agents as well as Realtors®, but it is our duty as Realtors® to further promote our brand and our profession.

The general public, in my opinion, doesn't know the difference. I find it amazing when people don't know that they don't have to call the person who's name is on the sign and it's 2007! Educating the general public will help our cause, but we are the foundation. I live by the statement, "Don't complain about it. Take the steps to CHANGE IT!"

Here is a quick idea of what the public thinks about us as real estate agents. Now I understand that we aren't all REALTORs but the blame for these horrendous numbers cannot lie solely on the non-REALTOR agents. These numbers speak to the associations, the state licensing boards and each and every one of us.

HARRIS Poll July 26, 2006

On a list of "Most Prestigious Occupations", real estate brokers/agents came in 23rd out of 23. DEAD LAST.

HARRIS Poll May 10, 2006

On a list of "Most Trusted Professionals to Give Advice", real estate agent came in 10th out of 11, just ahead of stockbrokers. Sad.

Improving these numbers should be the goal of the NAR. Not policing ® symbols, and giving money to Congressmen, who by the way, finished higher than us in the first poll.

Those numbers have improved...I remember the days when we wouldn't even make the lists... we were so low down!

We have a long way to go that is for sure...but we are at least we're making some steps in the right direction albeit slowly. New Gallup poll just came out didn't??? Anyone have it?

You know, I must shamefully admit I would be in the handful of people that had no clue what the difference is. I had to pay a fee and move forward. Thanks for opening my eyes!

You can't buy morality. You can't buy the inclination to ethical behavior. You can pay dues and buy the label, but you can't buy the integrity. I was the same person before I began forking over dues that I am today. Not only does the public see us all the same way, the perception is enhanced by the fact that there is relatively no policing of the membership. You can send checks every year, you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

There should be no "heat" for this blog. I have quoted Pogo before - "I have seen the enemy and it is us!"

All listings show on Realtor.com that are in the MLS, regardless of whether or not the listing agent is a "R"

This is to whomever said they like being an R because their listings show on R.com No distinction made in MLS feed to Rcom as far as I know.

JAN

2007

The National association of realtors takes our dues and fights for things like not having our commissions drop (oops), lobbying to keep the banks out of the real estate business (very close to happening), separate us from the “Rogue Agents” who feel they aren’t getting any benefits from NAR (See it works.. Everyone is a Realtor according to the poll). I have been a part of NAR ever sense I started in this business because the two brokers that I have worked for told me I had to. It’s very funny because if you ask a REALTOR what are the benefits of being one, most of them get flustered because they don’t even know. They use the money to Lobby on our behalf, and like someone else posted they give us health insurance benefits, and other things “I really don’t know for sure”. The majority of the world thinks we are all REALTORS but only half of us are footing the bill. Because of all of the discounting, slashing of prices and cutthroat crazy things we do to each other as real estate agents to get business, the NAR will never have enough money to help us. I believe we will all eventually become employees and the NAR will be getting paid by the companies and performing a completely different roll in the real estate industry. It’s a shame because we as a group of agents have turned a good association, reputation and business into the lowest bidder, least amount of work, look like car sales people business.

Jarrett, the NAR cannot fight to protect our commissions. This is called price-fixing. It is illegal. With that being your first sentence, it is difficult to give any credence to what you have to say.

JAN

2007

Ok a little humor for a serious Blog. According to Will Rogers here is what a REALTOR® is.

"A Realtor is an old fashioned Real Estate man with a neck tie.
A Real Estate man sold you what you wanted, a Realtor sells you what you don't need.
A Real Estate man showed you what you could raise on the land, a Realtor tells you what you can build on it."

FEB

2007

Love Danny's comment. I'd rather be a real estate man for sure

APR

2007

The lockbox comments crack me up. The exclusivity arguments RE the lockbox are a false bastion. Any real estate agent has only to call to make an appointment for their client to see the home. You can't deny him as you have a fiduciary responsibility to the seller. The ® isn't much different than UL or BBB, in fact it's less compelling, less recognizable, and is diminished even further by it's commanality to 'registered.' It becomes an anal compulsive obsession rather than a meaningful symbol. Let's face it, the industry is in for a serious revamping. It is more important to lift the noses out of the trough and see the future of real estate than to embrace the 'buggy whip ®' business it is becoming. There is no shortage of web based programs that will both gut and redefine the the real estate business of today. Much innovation is needed to continue in any semblance of the historical model. Think outside the box, and outside the trough.

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