Reserved Parking For #1 "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR!

Hubba! Bubba! Wink. Wink. SVW.

Here we go a dollar short and many days late. :)

I say YES. But what the hell do I know? Wink. Wink.

Don't you dare answer that or you'll be making your own breakfast in the morning.

It is a rhetorical question. LOL.

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...I Want To See What Others Think About This Deal. ROAR!

Starting see this happen up here. I think it will get worse as the market continues to adjust. Noticed the foreclosures picking up as well.  Opportunity time for buyers.

839 of our 20,724 listings are currently short sales.  I would say this is a rising trend also as last year I believe the percentage was about the same with short sales + foreclosures.

I think you negotiated the best deal you could on your client's (and the bank's) behalf.  Put on your lawyer hat (that's sexy, oh, I mean, TLW will think that is sexy) and let the bank know this is the best offer they will get!

Way to go! !

Recognizing the downward TREND in market value is, I believe, the key to making these things work.  Hopefully, the 1st holder will cooperate.   I'm certain that Countrywide has their stats to know that this short sale will save them a lot compared to foreclosure. 

Watching the market TRENDS has been important for the past year here.  My target at this time is 12% below market which should protect buyers for about 1 1/2 years. 

Let us know how it goes.

Lenn

wow...Bryant..... that's a tough call, because nobody is in business to lose money. You mentioned that the house might have been pushed in the appraisal section the first time around. What about when the 2nd mortgage was done?  Maybe two different companies pushing value?  I am wondering if someone directly from Countrywide and AHM did the mortgages or if it was a broker that did them and then sold them to these Companies.

I would ask the client for the copies of both HUDS. I have never experienced this before, but my thought is if it was done by a broker who then sold this to both companies, it might give you more of a leg to stand on, to get either company to bend. Sure, AHM would be the first to bend and break, because they are in the 2nd lean position. But possibly pointing blame on a broker and the appraiser.

My sister who referred me her good friend locally just went to a settlement on a refi, that I couldn't help them with, because I got to appraisals , not 100% complete, but comps, showing a $325,000 to $330,000 value. Their house came in at $350,000 with this other company.

Anyhow....  just some food for thought. Keep us posted.  thanks

For the second lien holder it is kind of a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation. The primary lien holder will only worry about getting their costs out and not worried about any scraps left over for the second lien holder. But 28 cents on the dollar for the second lien holder would be tough to swallow. The loss mitigation department will ask for a couple of BPOs and you will probably be at the mercy of those guys. If they come in high they might risk foreclosing and trying to get the higher price, if they come in low they will prolly try to figure out why they were underwriting such a loan to begin with.

The second mortgage market on high LTV financings was never properly pricing risk for the last few years (because risk appeared so low due to the hot market), now we will see the return of PMI due to the increased risk premium (higher interest rate) and the unwillingness of the primary mortgage underwriters to underwrite loans with seconds on them (or at least unwillingness to do so on such low rates).

If you don't ask, you will never know.  Considering that you can validate the the offer with the current trends, and the fact that Florida's foreclosure rate seems to be higher then the average, I say you have a shot. 

Hi Broker Bryant:)  In my experience it depends on who you are dealing with.  Getting someone reasonable to handle the case and putting your phone on non-stop redial helps. Unfortunately I have not found any rhyme or reason to what they are choosing to accept and/or not accept, so like Ann said just throw it out there and see what sticks.

Do the seller's have a valid case as to why they can no longer afford the home? If they have any other assets, the bank will ask for them and/or ask them to carry a note and make payments on it.

Good luck:) If anyone can do it YOU CAN!

Hey great comments everyone. Thanks. My Seller actually made a very good move, based on my advice, and hired an Attorney to negotiate with the Lenders. I was concerned that the Seller was not understanding the repercussions that could happen with a "short sale" i.e. 1099 and being held personally responsible for the amount of the short. So to be on the safe side he hooked up with an Attorney to handle that part of the transaction. Gets me off the hook too, so that's a good thing.

I've handled several "short sales" so will be curious to see how the Attorney does.

I have two other properties listed right now that will be going through the same thing. I expect to have quite a few of these this year

Bryant, I don't see where the Seller has much choice but to take the offer.  If the comps are what you stated, the bank only stands to loss more money in my opinion if they foreclose, so I don't think they have much of a choice but to accept also. I will be interested to hear what they end up doing.

Bryant,

Great job getting the offer up $11K!  Sounds to me like you've got them the best deal they'll see.  Smart move referring to an attorney.  That saved my clients and I on the last one that I did.  The acceptance terms of the offer they sent was not signed by the lender (just name typed in).  The attorney required them to sign it.  When they sent the next one, which was signed, the lender tried to pull a fast one by changing the deal that they negotiated over the phone. They had first agreed to having no liability to my seller for the shortage (deed in lieu of foreclosure).  Then they sent the signed agreement with my sellers being personally responsible for the shortage!  After threatening them for two days with having the sellers staying put and not making house payments, taxes, insurance, and sewer liens for 6 months they finally caved in.  Personally, I think the sellers should have been held responsible since they borrowed the money.  However, I was representing them and had to negotiate on their behalf.  Besides, it really p***ed me off that the lender outright lied to me!

BTW, BB, you left us all hanging on my blog about abbreviations with your "IAROTFLWPIMPA".  What in the world does this stand for?  Please drop back and explain.  Rob made a guess at it.  Is he right?

Thanks!

Lucky :)

Darlin' (Broker Bryant) I forgot to show you this...

It is my new signature and I intend to use when I feel like it. Jeff Turner made it for me. :)

TLW...ROAR!

I am just curious, do they 1099 foreclosures too?

I Am Rolling On The Floor Laughing While Peeing In My Pants Again.

What a riot!

These acronyms never cease to amaze me!

Thanks!

Lucky :)

1099s for the "forgiven" portion of the debt is one of the secrets of short sales.  It's a good thing to warn your clients about.  They may need to figure out how they are going to pay their taxes!

As to whether you'll win.  Who knows.  The sure thing is that if you did not try, you definitely would not get it accepted by the lender!  So keep on trying.  Your statistics support the short sale! 

We really haven't seen much in the way of short sales in our market.  I am just now starting to see a couple of them.  I am following your posts to get an idea of what we may expect from the lenders in the future.

How did we get into this situation of inflated sales prices on homes?

Think you identified one of the reasons - bogus appraisals.  Who's to blame?  The appraisers?  How many appraisals do you think they will do if they consistently tell lenders that homes are not worth the contract price?  The lenders?  How many loan applications will they get if the word gets out that they are not approving loans because of poor appraisals?  The agents?  Should they write contracts with prices they know are inflated?  Is that ethically proper and/or equitable?

Wow folks, I have just had an idea for a new posting here on AR.  Got to go!!

BB,

Like someone said; you never know unless you ask.  My thought is that there is a fair chance your short sale will fly. Countrywide will come out smiling. American Home could come out worse if there is a foreclosure and they don't buy out the first to try to protect their position.

Ron raises an interesting point. Buying out the first to protect their position. The attorney was a smart move on your part. I would have done the same. You know your area better than anyone BB what is your gut telling you?  With your experience are they (the second lender) likely to take the loss?  I had success in  situation on a property I purchased the day before foreclosure in NH many years ago-the second position holder took the loss. But down here??? I have no idea! Please let us know how this one plays out.

Broker Bryant I agree with George, it seems like a very good market value offer. I am always amazed, and shouldn't be anymore, at how many of these are going on now. We were told via the State's Attorney General's office (in a newspaper article) that Cleveland short sales and foreclosures were more tied in to mortgage fraud than almost anywhere else in the Country and they are prosecuting quite a few 'peeps' this month. But back to the topic - I hope the two lenders work it out!

BB,  It will be interesting to see how the lender handles this.  Based on your information it seems that the logical thing to do would be for the lender to accept this offer as the lesser of two evils.  Unfortunately the lenders are not all choosing the logical route right now.  Please keep us informed on the progess.

BB,

I'm curious if you could share whether the buyer is another flipper or someone who's actually buying a house to live in it.

Regards

Hi Stan,

He was a flipper. This particular builder was a little mom and pop shop and sold about 30 houses in my area. They were all the same deal. $225,000 with $5,000 down. As soon as they are completed we will resale them through our affiliated Real Estate company at $275,000 before the first payment is due and Eureeka!!! you will make a $35,000 profit. Well all 30 of these homes are now in the same predicament. The builders gone and 30 people have been screwed. The biggest isssue is the houses were NEVER worth $225,000. The prices were inflated to begin with. 

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Hi everyone, I really appreciate all the comments. Sorry I can't respond to everyone individually today, I'm a little buried in work.

Bryan,

You lead an interesting life. I find this case very interesting, but I don't have the necessary information.

You have an effective offer of $193,000.00, which nets $45,000.00 less than thepay off on the property, and you want to do a short sale.

Countrywide is not going to gift the seller with any of their money, because they're not at risk. $157,000.00 on a $193,000.00 leaves them room completely recover their money.

That leaves American Home Mortgage. Why should AHM take a loss? You don't tell us about the sellers current finances.

Just having a CLTV of 123% is not sufficient to compel a short sale. I've still got lenders offering 125% new loans!

That the owners want or even need to move is not a good reason for the bank to lose money.

To many Gurus teach that "a short sale" is found money, a superficial reading of some of my books and you might get this idea, but a closer look points out that all short sales are accepted as the lesser of two evils.

Is the first, Countrywide in foreclosure?

Has the owner lost their ability to pay?

Does FL allow deficiency judgements?

If AHM knows your seller had intended to "flip" the property they're not going to look at this favorably.

Was fraud involved in the origination of the loan? Conspiracy?

How many loans does AHM hold in the area?

How will AHM benefit from a settlement?

Short Sales are a wonderful tool, but I keep hearing REALTORS® refer to them as if they were an automatic and for drawn conclusion. I hear about "short sale listings" how do you list a property that the seller can not be sure to deliver?

You've got people commenting on "1099" tax issues as if they just discovered that sellers sometimes have taxes to pay. A foreclosure can also have tax problems, too. If the loans exceeded the basics. The taxes on a settlement need to be consider by the owner when deciding not to continue making the payments.

My experiences with short sales with one huge exception have all been from the buyer's side. Brian Brady has worked the other side, he recommenders not a short sale but a substitution of collateral to solve such problems. Does you seller have $45,000.00 equity elsewhere that he could use to secure AHM's interest?

There is always more than one way!

Bill

William J Archambault Jr

The Real Estate Investment Institute

http://www.reii.org

PS: When TLW gets back from changing her pants , please tell her that I like the new logo.

BB, you'll likely never find this comment this late, but what happened with this?  I need to go back to before I joined and do some great reading.  My "accidental" short sale has been a NIGHTMARE.