In October I took my first short sale listing.  I immediately got the proper authorizations from the owner to talk to the lender, Wells Fargo.  Before I took the listing I talked to someone with Wells Fargo to see if they would accept a short sale.  Their response was get an offer and submit a short sale package.  I accepted the fact that this could just end up as a learning experience and not an actual sale and took the listing.

The owner had moved from S. Florida to N. Carolina and had a tenant in the townhouse.  They had paid $260,000 for the townhouse in 2006 and owed $240,000.  They couldn't sell the property so they rented it out but they had over $1000 a month in negative cash flow.  I recommended they make a deal with the tenant for her to leave.  They did and in about six weeks she was gone. 

There were very few comparables but I estimated the market value at $210,000, which is where we listed the property.  Of the five units for sale in the development three were foreclosures or pre-foreclosures.  There was little to no action in the first two weeks so we dropped the price to $200,000.  In mid-November we got an offer of $160,000.  I submitted the short sale package to Wells Fargo and got no response for four weeks.  I left messages once a week with my contact at Wells Fargo and finally at the four week mark she actually picked up the phone when I called.  She said before they could go forward the property would have to be appraised.

A week later the appraisal was complete and I called Wells Fargo to follow up.  At that time I was handed off to someone else who told me the property appraised for $210,000.  How about that, I was right on target.  Because it was an insured loan HUD guidelines dictated they would require no less then to walk away from the sale with 82% of the appraised value or $176,300.  It was either accept the price or surrender the property. This meant the commission, back taxes, and closing costs, had to be added to that to get the sales price.  I got a preliminary HUD worked up and the sales price came to about $192,000. 

I went back to the buyers agent, by now its about a week before Christmas and explained the situation.  Its $192,000, take it or leave it basically.  She said she would talk to her buyers and get back to me. 

No response and the buyers agent didn't return a couple of follow ups.

I put the listing back in active status at the price of $192,000 and remarked the short sale was approve by lender at that price.  I got three or four showings but no takers.  Then a few days ago, Jan 10th, The buyers agent calls me out of the blue and says her buyers have been trying to secure financing at the new price.  She also asked if I would cut my commission along with her by 1/2 a point, to help them out.  I figure why not, if it brings this deal back from the dead.  Also the mortgage company for the buyer wanted to the appraisal to save a few bucks and I said I would see if Wells Fargo would release it.

Well, heres were I get screwed, and everyone else by the way.  When I talk to my new contact at Wells Fargo He says the appraisal was $238,000 not the $210,000 figure he had given me almost a month prior.  I was floored "how could that be", I asked.  He didn't have a good answer just a clerical error, he deals with a lot of files, blah, blah, blah.  I asked if I could see this appraisal and at first he was reluctant to give it to me.  Then he said he would show me just the comps and would e-mail them in a few minutes. 

By the next day I had seen no e-mails from him and left a message.  I get a return call hours later and he said he must have the wrong e-mail and asked for it again.  At 4:55pm on Friday I get the full appraisal to my surprise.  This appraisal in my opinion is inflated.  The nicest unit in the complex sold for $225,000 just a week before.  It was in great shape with hard wood floors and a new kitchen.  So how does mine that is all beat up by a renter get valued at $238,000?  A few days after the appraisal was completed one of the foreclosures sold for $195,000. Not that this helps me much, but you see were prices are headed.

I'd like to believe that this was a case of clerical error, but I can't help but be suspicious.  Now 82% of $238,000 is equal to $195,160 pay out to Wells Fargo.  I have to raise the price to somewhere around $225,000 to net that figure.  Which means this property has no chance of selling.  I don't know why the bank would want the property back, which is what is going to happen.  I felt I was fortunate someone wanted it at $192,000.

So it ends up where I thought it could as one of lifes lessons....

 
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21 Comments on Wells Fargo Moved The Goal Post

JAN
13
2008
104,745 Points 12 Featured Posts
They will take is back and sell it for $195,000. That is the way of the new world order.
12:37pm • #1
247,322 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Well what I have learned is when that BPO comes in do everything you can to receive a copy at that time. Honey gets you more then vinegar and explaining to them our market in depth explaining the number expireds and what it will cost them in the end to take the property back, most of them end up siding with me. It's a long stressful process, but if you can make it through and learn you will prosper in this market.
12:39pm • #2
5 Featured Posts
Tis the stuff that will drive you crazy on the short sales game,,,just drive you crazy..PS..Get your commision verified in writing...ANd you want to be paid at closing too....Memories of....
1:17pm • #3
474,020 Points 41 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
I'm amazed the number of appraisal's I've gotten along with a BPO order.  They want me to see if my values will match.  In 99% of the cases so far my value has been LOWER than the appraisal.  WHY?  Because as agents we know more about the condition of the houses AND we know where to actually find recent comps.  We know that subdivisions are recognized by different names and that a straight search of past sales may not turn up a true recent comps.  It is frustrating to see the banks asset managers with no clue about the area try and make decisions about pricing.
1:33pm • #4

Ask around appriasal companies until you find one with software that will do a regression analysis of the subject's immediate market. Pay them the $100 bucks for their study, letterhead and signature. It is worth it. What ever they have to say is worth much more to your lender than what the lender will accept from you.

This is basically a trending study that says... yes the fair market value today may be $238,000 but the trend in the neighborhood is going down at 2.5% /month based on pending sales, and reo trustee sales on the subject's block, etc. etc.

So you say, we have an offer on the table today that is xxx dollars more that what you will net if you wait to foreclose, evict, repair, list/market/sell in 6 to 9 months.

Then you quote people who have a history in short sales about the number of rejected short sale offers (by the foreclosing lenders) --- about how these same properties have come back on the market for much lower prices and either have been sitting vacant for 6 months... or actually did finally sell but for $50,000 to $100,000 less than the short sale proposal.

What are your thoughts?

8:14pm • #5
JAN
14
2008
Regression analysis? sounds like a good tool - well worth $100. 
8:07pm • #6

I think that part of the problem can also be the fact that these lenders are using lenders that are from outside the area. I understand that they have a license that says State of Illinois just like my real estate license.

The issue is that they don't always have a pulse on a local market like a local appraiser and agent. Maybe they prefer an outsider so that there is no undue pressure

Maybe they are just plain crazy

 

8:41pm • #7
JUN
03
2008

My husband and I put an offer in on a house on May12th As of today Wells Fargo still has not input the information into the system or so that is what we are being told. I am told that once it is input it will get sent on for a negotiator to handle the offers. Does anyone have any idea about how long this process is taking? We know that we have the highest offer on the table so far but who knows if other offers have come in yet.  Is there a certian percentage that the bank usually wants to see? This house has mold all throughout the basement so if they dont speed up we are afraid the mold will spred more.....any advice or comments on how long this will take or what we can do to get it sped up?

 

Impatiently wating for offer to be input!! Does this sound fimilar to anyone??

Stacy-Davenport, IA frustrated homebuyer
1:46pm • #8
JUN
05
2008
404,888 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

i am glad I read this post. i will be careful if I have to deal with Short sales.

4:51pm • #9
JUN
08
2008

Stacy, I am just wrapping up a Wells Fargo short sale.  It definitely took about 3-4 weeks for me to be assigned a negotioator, then they ordered the appraisal and by the time it came in it was another 3 weeks.  At that point, though, the negotiator moved very quickly to approve the sale.  Patience is definitely the key in short sales.

9:25am • #10
JUN
10
2008

Susie,  Thank you so much for the encourgment! We put in our offer on May 17th so we are almost at the 4 week mark. I will just have to keep the fingers crossed until we hear something. Sounds like once we get that negotioator we will be rolling. Did they actually send someone to the home to do your apprasial?

Stacy-Davenport,IA
1:15pm • #11
JUN
12
2008

I have had short sale negotiations that went no where.  A few months later some one from the lender usually calls to see if we can get the deal back together. 

I suggest getting written confirmations of the deal the lender offers either by email or fax.

1:07am • #12
JUN
20
2008

I am attempting a sort sale without a realator. An invester approached me after he heard about the foreclosure and has made a good offer. It took me 30 days just to get the Faxes for the short sale to show up. That was after 15 times. Finally after calling everyday and documenting the names of the service reps, I was assigned a negotiator. She has been very pleasant, and efficient. She ordered a BPO. This is where I am freaking out.

I fell behind in my mortgage due to an illness,  Multiple Sclerosis ans spinal stenosis that I had to have a plate put in my neck.

Anyway back to the BPO. The BPO was ordered on Friday. She did not call until the next Wednesday.

She set up an appt with me for Thursday at 11:00 a.m.. I sat out front in my porch swing for 7 hours. She never showed up. I called her cell phone and she said, "Oh I was just thinking of you, my car is in the shop and I couldn't make it today. I'll make it happen tomorrow at 1:00. so I went to a job interview at 10:00 ( I'm working with VOC /Rehab) came home and again sat  on my porch waiting for her. The phone rang at 1:00 pm and she stated she was having a bad day. I asked her if she needed to rescheule and she said rudely, "no I need to get it done today, I;ll be there between 2:00 and 3:30!" I waited. I began to feel so stressed and that is not good for MS. I was shaking all over. At 3:00 she pulled in my drive like a bat out of H--- and got out of her Mercedes SUV. she approached me and said she had already done the BPO on Sunday by doing a drive by. I know for a fact that an internal was ordered. I have an email from the negotiator statign so. she said she needed to take some pictures. She did not have a file, any paper or pen with her. she snapped 3 pictures. I tried to show her where there are three interior leaks inside becuase the house is in idre need of a new roof. she wasn't interested even though one is very bad.She then asked me if hte basement was a full basement. I DON'T HAVE A BASEMENT! But she had already said she had the bpo already done before she entered the house.

She then after only 2 minutes, that was her inspection, presented her own agenda and tried to get me to employ her services tosell thehouse and help with the short sale. she asked me what the buyer had offered and me not knowing what to do I told her. She shrugged her shoulders and said she had done a short sale for her daughter and kept pleading her case that if I needed her help let me know. she then left and said she was going to send the BPO immediately to the negotiator within the hour. she was in  and at my house a total of 7 minutes and that included walking around the back of the house to take a picture. I was crying and that cold hearted woman just left. I attribute the crying due to the stress from the MS and that she caused me to be so nervous from waiting for 2 days. i am under the wire here as the sale date is looming. My house sits near a major University and even though I had comps run from 3 independent realtors, I am afraid she is going to come in too high to complete the sale.

Aren't there suppose to be things she is suppose to do for an internal  BPO? What is my recourse if it is so far off the mark. Especially since I know what the comps are.Can she guage the price on where my house sits and ignore it's condition? How does the negotiator know she pulled accurate comps?

Could some one give me some advise? Oh I had two witnesses there.

 

 

 

Laura lee
9:47pm • #13

Hey everyone! I left Wells Fargo (who paid me last year .25% of what I have already made YEAR TO DATE last year) in September. Prep your clients that a short sale, especially with a bank as large as Wells, will take 60-90 days. It really will take that long...plus they are totally backlogged and certainly working with a team that is used to about 98% less volume. Everyone...give the banks some breathing room right now and prep your clients for it. The market is totally changing and we are working hard to adapt as quickly as possible. With stuff like this...expect it to take awhile...

9:57pm • #14
JUN
30
2008

Like you said, that was a great lesson learned.  How are you doing now with short sales, I bet you are an expert in the area!  Have a great day.

10:48am • #15
AUG
13
2008

Due to excessive medical bills (not my fault), as well as just overall bad financial planning and staggering debt (definitely my fault), I am approaching Wells Fargo (servicer for my 1st mortgage) with a short sale - I have an offer in hand that is equal to the lowest REO sold in my area, so they will likely not accept but it will get the ball rolling.  House has been on the market for a little over 2 months already, this is my only offer to date.  Can any one help me with the following:

1) Does Wells Fargo have a specific Authorization form they require, so they can speak with my RE agent, or will his general form work?

2) Will WF reject my package automatically, if I also have a 2nd mortgae (with Bof A)?  Do I have to get approval for the short sale from B of A first??

30 Will WF even LOOK at my short sale package if I haven't missed a payment yet?  I have not paid my 8/1 payment, but wont even be late until 8/15.  I dont want to add Late Pays to my credit, on top of the eventual "Settled Debt" hit, if I can avoid it.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robin in Mesa, AZ

Robin in Mesa AZ
1:01pm • #16
Outside Blog Hit Router

Unfortunately many banks still don't have the infrastructure or the internal fortitude to cope.

In the 80's bad market it was the same way until they put it together. The only way they really get good attention is when the homeowner is not paying.

And they are sometimes not in a hurry to get it off the books.

Shades of Japan 1990's

Richard

 

 

1:26pm • #17
AUG
21
2008

HELP HELP HELP

Ok so we got word from wf that they want to work with us on our offer. LOL. The asking price was 135k and the damage to the home is outragious so we offered 105k which was more than resonable. we also submitted a damage statement so they would understand why our offer was so low. Yesterday we were told that they have counter offered us at 125k! We cant believe it. I guess the apprisal came back at 135k! What in the world is that. Now how can that happen. Even better, I am told today that the BPO only came back in the 90k range?!! How does that work? Shouldnt the two be close in amounts and if our offer is HIGHGER than the BPO shouldnt they have snagged it up while they had the chance? Today we emailed pictures of the damage and asked them to reconsider a new apprisal and who knows what that will do. My agent is a tard so not much help there, I am pretty much running the show.

HELP Anyone understand why the apprisal is so much higher than the bpo? is this normal? Any suggestions on what to do next?

I was also told by the agent that wf stated they werent really going to consider less than 125k based on the apprisal amount....cant believe that since the house is full of mold in the lower level and needs to be gutted..

Any ideas or suggestions??

Stacy
2:54pm • #18
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My short sale with Wells Fargo last August was rejected-- the buyer offered $68K, I offered to take a note back fo $20K.  I hadn't missed any payments then.  I stopped paying in December, Trustee's Sale is scheduled for April 22nd, Wells Fargo just accepted an offer for $61K, no note back from me.  So, they lost months and months, and $27K.  And, I had to completely wipe out my family's savings and trash my credit score with late pays to get them to accepts.  The system kinda sucks.  But, I am happy to be free of the property and I'll just spend the next three years rebuilding from 2008-- aka the Year from H&%$#*

Robin in Mesa (No. 16 above)
10:43pm • #43
MAY
16

Hi, we just made an offer on a short sale- the addendum we signed as a part of this ensured privacy for the seller and so we aren't supposed to know things like what they owe or what bank they are with etc... but their realtor did make a comment about how he has done short sales with Wells Fargo- so I am assuming it is them. Does anyone know if applying for a loan through the existing mortgage bank will speed up the process?

Dana
3:38pm • #45
OCT
11

Wells Fargo short sales are pretty much a waste of a Realtors time.  I have had an offer in on a property for four months now and it is still not answered.  They don't want to help in any form or fashion.  You get them a good offer on a property and they act like they could care less.  Now the owner has moved out, the gutters are falling off and the yard is absolutely awful.  The price will only go down as the house falls down while they sit around doing nothing.  I guess now they can pay all of the fees to foreclose and then sell it for much less in a year or so after the house is destroyed.  I think they are complete idiots.  They have already lost a huge amount of money and I hope they loose that much more.  It does not pay to be stupid. 

To sum it all up, Wells Fargo short sales are not worth it!!!!!!!!!  Find another property and move on.

PJG
11:46pm • #46

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Tom Day - Pompano Beach, FL Real Estate

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