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A conversation I just had with an underwriter

By
Mortgage and Lending with Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc


Account Executive: "You want answers?"                                     Jack Nicholason

Underwriter: "I think we are entitled to them!"

Account Executive: "You want answers?"

UW: (YELLING): "I want the truth!"

Account Executive: (YELLING): "You can't handle the truth!!!"

Account Executive: (Continuing): Son, we live in a world that requires loans. And the loans must be brought in by people with elite skills. People who thrive on cold-calling, rejection, and false promises. Who's going to find it?  You?  You, Mr. Operations? We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You scoff at sales divisions and you curse our lucrative incentives, commissions and bonus plans. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know: that while the cost of business results are excessive, it drives in the loans. And my very existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, drives REVENUE! You don't want to know the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at staff meetings......you want me on that sales call. You NEED me on that sales call. We use words like discount points, yield spread, fixed rates and purchase agreements.  We use these words as the backbone of a life spent negotiating with Lenders and Borrowers. You use them as a punch line!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to people who rise and sleep under the very blanket of revenue I provide and then question the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just say "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up the phone and make a sales call.


Either way, I don't give a **** what you think you are entitled to.

UW: "Did you overstate the income?"

Account Executive: "I did the job I was hired to do."

UW: (YELLING): "Did you overstate the income?"

Account Executive: (YELLING): "You're ***damn right I did!!!!"

(This was taken from a Few Good Men.....)

 

So many of us talk about fraud, those mortgage programs that might seem to be good to be true (Rules that aim to cut the risks on 'exotic' mortgages!!!!! ), and so many things that could make this joke come true. And Ken Stampe wrote : Pay Option Arms - Suicide in a Mortgage Loan  and Brian Brady wrote : But can they afford it?

Here is a good story by Roberta Murphy -- Bad Loan Storm Ripples   Now, any thoughts on these blogs???

Now, don't get me wrong, I do all kinds of loans, but where does someone draw the line? Over-step the boundaries?  But then again, so many on here criticize that the foreclosure rate is running high and blame lenders and products. What about the behind the scenes picture. NOT knowing if the client just spends and buys. Goes out after the fact and buys two cars with great credit, but now their ratios after buying are now 75%. And if used in the mortgage business, as a 75% DTI, they wouldn't qualify, unless they went stated or no doc. Whose fault is this?  The loan defaults, do we blame the lender? I ONLY believe it should be the blame of the lender if they were unscrupulous.

As I have said....this is not real & I didn't make this up. It's a joke that has been traveling the mortgage world for the last 6 months. But it holds some truth to it.

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Copyright © 2011 by Jeff Belonger of Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc

Jason Price
Mortgage Financial Group, Inc (NMLS 219650) - Tavares, FL
The Mortgage Rider
Not at all... go for it.  Hope it works for you.
Jan 12, 2007 03:19 AM
Brian Brady
Matthews Capital Markets - Tampa, FL
858-699-4590
This is a funny post with a good message behind the humor.  
Jan 12, 2007 11:50 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Jason..... thanks again.

Brian..... thanks for that compliment...

        but I don't see the humor behind this. "I am few yards away from the enemy, something that you will never experience. I am the one putting my life on the line, protecting you and your loan officers....who don't care, and who carry-on at bars...  stuff your faces with the finest foods.... and can sleep in, while I am on edge, trying to get that loan done, at all costs... "    LOL

Jan 12, 2007 12:31 PM
Ken Stampe
iBrandPlan.com - Grow your e-Profile & Brand - Dallas, TX
iBrandPlan

Jeff - very funny usage of the movie lines. That was great. What concerns me is that your following information stated the sentence below:

"And if used in the mortgage business, as a 75% DTI, they wouldn't qualify, unless they went stated"

Wait a second, they wouldn't qualify "stated" at 75% DTI. The implication is that by going "stated" the loan officer would be fraudulently increasing the client's income in order to lower the DTI from 75% to a ratio that would meet guidelines. Committing fraud to "qualify" borrowers is still fraud.

I want to make sure I'm following your call to action in response to the fantastic humor in your post. Having read your blog and posts in the past I think you take a strong position on personal accountability for the consumer and I know you believe strongly in the loan officer's role to educating the consumer. Where I would like you to clarify is this;

it seems you are saying you do not have a problem with a loan officer mis-using a stated income program to qualify a home buyer because that customer COULD go out 1 day after closing and add debt which would result in a higher DTI anyway.

Am I misunderstanding you here?

Ken Stampe - Bank of America

Jan 15, 2007 04:36 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Ken.... I am tired at this moment, but I will try and clarify. In regards to the stated.... this can get very deep. Let me ask you a question.  If your client was making $50,000 a year. But they had a side job that they could not be documented and it was actually the same line of work.... and they made another $20,000 by doing this.  And when I say not documented, I am talking by the normal means....  how would you treat this.

In regards to the your last statement. I think you are reading into everything now. I never said that I don't have a problem with loan officers mis-using stated income programs.... I was trying to convey that I can't worry and care about those that run up bills after buying a house. There is a lot more behind this. But you can only educate so much. And I am not going to someone's follower or crediot counselor.

thanks, jeff

Jan 15, 2007 05:57 AM
Ken Stampe
iBrandPlan.com - Grow your e-Profile & Brand - Dallas, TX
iBrandPlan

Perhaps when you are better rested you can see where I was coming from. Like I said in my last comment, I've read your posts and comments over the past months and felt that the way this blog came across to me was not in alignment with the impression I have of you or your position on this issue. That's why I asked you to clarify.

Perhaps I'm the only one that inferred it the way I explained in my comment, but out of respect for you I wanted to point out that if I interpreted that way then perhaps someone else may do so and give you an opportunity to clarify.

I would treat your scenario with stated income for the non-documented job. That is within guidelines assuming the employment can be verified as to guidelines. It's the person with a job making $50,000 a year and has a 75% DTI who the loan officer makes up a second job and completes the application with $70,000 in income so their customer qualifies. It sounded like you were justifying this by saying that it's the lender's fault to catch it and that the customer at a 35% DTI could purchase items after closing to take them to a 75% DTI so who cares.

Like I said, that's how it came across and that's why I asked for your clarification....still a really, really funny post. Now go get some sleep.

Ken

Jan 15, 2007 06:25 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans
Ken...  I am still lost with your last comment.  You said you would treat my scenario with stated income. Meaning?>  treat it how?   2nd... I never said a 2nd job was made up. Not sure if you were using that as an example. But much of this is getting too detailed and now confusing.  sorry
Jan 15, 2007 06:30 AM
Ann Guy
NA - Allentown, PA
Jeff-good point. We do get blamed for alot of what is going on now.  But I have seen so many times customers needing that new expensive, big, german car to go with their new bigger house.  It's time people start taking accountability for their own actions. 
Jan 15, 2007 07:26 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans
Ann...thanks for stopping by and for the comments and input.
Jan 15, 2007 08:05 AM
Roberta Lee
Century 21 Olde Tyme - Norco, CA
Norco Corona Riversid Homes For Sale

Jeff,

I believe it is the responsibility of the client to read the loan docs.  If they see soemthing there reported wrongly then it is up to them to bring it to the attention of the loan officer.  Of course we all know there are horrible loan officers out there, but by in large I think most of themare hard working and honest, and they get the blame for everythng.  It's like the client is a child that must be protected at all costs and while that may be true that protection begins with they themselves.  Only my humble opinion. :)

Great post. :)

Feb 26, 2007 06:15 PM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Roberta....  thanks for you input and feedback. In my opinion, sure, we could say that the client needs to read the closing docs. But so many put their trust in loan officers, which they should at some point, hence why they don't read everything. And another thing to point out, even if they did read everything and came to the conclusion that it was not what they were told they were getting, it puts them in a bad situation, especially on a purchase. Yes, it's easy to say, then don't sign anything. But not as easily said when you are in the position.

And in regards to refinances, sometimes even harder to back out, because if that loan officer knew that you needed that money so bad and they actually gave you something that wasn't promised, this is even harder to back out of. Because it could ruin you financially at the time. Sure, you can go after the mortgage company. But when fraud is not the case, it's tough. All you can do is complain, unless you had a lawyer right there with you. 

If any of these things ever happen to you, I always advise that one gets a lawyer ASAP. I had a client do this once with another mortgage company and he won his case, 6 months later. They reimbursed him for his closing costs.

Again Roberta, thanks for your input. 

Feb 27, 2007 12:16 AM
Anonymous
Roberta Lee

Jeff,

I KNOW you're right.  I used to be a mobile doc signer before I became a Realtor.  It was scary the number of people that didn't read a thing just signed their names.  I know trust is important but to blindly trust is just so dangerous.  Most Loan Officers are honest and try to do a good job, but for those that aren't these people are just like rabbits and they are just lying in wait.  You wrote a good article and good response. :) Besides whenever a lawyer gets involved who is the winner?  :/  Not the client!

Feb 27, 2007 03:58 AM
#53
Rob Robinson- Lehigh Valley PA
Bertrum Settlements (Title & Abstract) - Allentown, PA
Jeff, only saw this TODAY.  Excellent, excellent, excellent............. and funny as Hades.
Mar 02, 2007 01:41 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Roberta..... thanks for stopping back in. Looking forward to getting to know more about you and going from there. The lawyer take on things....  not always, I have seen some lawyers be useful. But I will leave the rest of that alone... lol

Rob.....  thanks for that awesome compliment.... 

Mar 02, 2007 10:49 AM
Tonisha Mitchell
Dollar Mortgage and Financial - Ocean Springs, MS

This was a very good post -- and I'm sure someone has had that exact conversation somewhere in the world!

It's true that some customers want what they want, no matter what. And if you don't give it to them someone else will. But I would not feel right putting someone in a house that I know they can't afford simply to close one more loan. It's a totally different situation when a borrower does make enough income and can pay on time, but they have other extenuating circumstances that makes the loan difficult. Then it's good to be a "creative" loan officer. That's your job -- to find a lender that is willing to take the loan and to structure the loan so that it will work. We can't be baby sitters, but loan officers should take responsibility for what they do. Someone is coming to you for expert advice. 

Mar 03, 2007 05:58 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Tonisha.....   thanks for your compliment and for your input. And yes, some clients think they know what they want and some of them won't let you tell them any differently. Even if you can prove by true numbers that it would be better. Okay, so we can't help everyone... but why go to an expert then? Sure, you have to be careful and that you can't trust everyone.

Again, thanks for your feedback and input. 

Mar 05, 2007 01:02 PM
Robert McArtor
RE/MAX Components - Fallston Maryland - Bel Air, MD
Top Listing Agent for Baltimore and Harford County
OMG, that is awesome, if I were handing out points, this would be 500 no doubt!!
Mar 05, 2007 01:42 PM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans
Robert....  I really apprecie your enthusiastic comment...... thanak you very much, much appreciative.
Mar 06, 2007 02:39 AM
David A. Podgursky PA
THE PODGURSKY GROUP @ Re/Max Direct - Boynton Beach, FL
THE PODGURSKY GROUP - Make the Right Move!

Very creative post!

I think I had this argument with a processor vs lo scenario once...

What I like is the play on operations vs sales

Mar 06, 2007 02:48 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans
David.... thanks a lot for that compliment. I am sure many of us had some type of discussion in regards to this.... may it have been the consumer, the underwriter, another loan officer, your manager.... you name it. Thanks for stopping by.
Mar 11, 2007 08:11 PM