Honey?

Can we make the deck bigger?The deck that covered the whole yard

In fact, can we cover the whole yard with it?

Sure honey---will get right on that this weekend!

 

What started out as a nice little rectangular deck on the back of the home, turned into a complicated series of decks, which did in fact cover much of the back yard.  Decks can be maintenance nightmares and, as nice as they might be, it is important that they be constructed properly.

They must be supported properly, attached to the house properly and have safe guard railings.  It is actually pretty unusual to find a deck that does not have one or more issues with it.  Missing flashings at the ledger on the house, the ledger attached over the top of the siding, missing ledger bolting and/or missing joist hangers on the ledger are just a handful of the common issues found with just this part of the deck.

This is not intended as a treatise on deck construction and my focus today is merely on how these newer decks were “connected” to the existing deck.  There was no access under the deck so the picture I have of the underside had to rely on the light of my flashlight with the camera looking through the lattice that skirted the deck.

Improper deck attachment 

As you can see, the older original deck is all of the greenish/grey colored wood to the right in the picture.  The newer deck is all the reddish/brown structures to the left in the picture.  The board that divides the two is the original outer rim joist of the old deck.  Notice that (as would have been common with attachment of the original rim joist) the board is merely nailed into the end grain of the joists.  The joists are cantilevering across the top of the original beam that can be seen to the right side of the picture.

The new deck ledgers have been butted into the old rim joist and metal joist hangers have been used to support the joists at the attachment.  So now we have half the weight of all the new deck structures that hangs on this rim joist being supported by the few nails driven into the end grain of the original cantilevered joists.  This weight of course does not include whatever numbers of people are able to gather on the new portion of the deck.  In this next picture---everything to the right of the red line in the picture is added to that original rim joist.

The addition to the deck 

This deck has been this way for about 10 years so all is good right?

Depending on lots of factors, this connection may or may not fail catastrophically.  I know my E & O policy would not be happy if it did.  The size of the nails driven into the end grain is critical.  Whether they can rust and corrode is critical.  The total number of nails is critical.  None of these can be actually determined in the course of a Standard Home Inspection.

The bottom line is that this type of connection would never stand up to modern deck construction "best practices" and the connection should be properly supported.  It will likely be necessary to move the existing beam over under this connection or to add another one.  Simply adding hangers on the other side may be sufficient but that would have to be determined by someone working beyond the scope of a Standard Home Inspection.

Sometimes the things that can be done on weekends should be left to weekdays.

 

By Charles Buell, Real Estate Inspections in Seattle

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33 Comments on Honey, the deck ate the WHOLE yard!

20 Most Recent Comments Displayed Show All

AUG
13
916,964 Points 178 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Ed, it will be a tight fit in some of it---some of the deck surface may have to come off

Than, hard to tell---some people REALLY hate cutting grass :)

Carla, I have done a couple of houses with astro turf yards---small ones--but strange:)

Vince, I did have one where the deck support post was sitting on top of the oil tank :)

10:52pm • #14
AUG
14
778,386 Points 97 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Does this mean that the owners have a pressure washer instead of a mower Charles?

12:13am • #15
975,168 Points 350 Featured Posts Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

That lattice-eye view gives a good shot of those toe nails.  I see toe nails so often I am beginning to suspect they must work!

OK, maybe I'm not converted quite that far to the Dark Side.

4:28am • #16
1,525,644 Points 163 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

My clients and I stepped out on a deck yesterday and jumped right back in the house.  It was also one that had been extended and the whole thing swayed when we walked on it. 

5:03am • #17
1,138,567 Points 154 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Wow, that does look like a mess and from what I read here from all the inspectors, decks tend to have tons of issues.  I guess lots of do-it-yourselfers and handymen try this out.

5:13am • #18
227,118 Points 86 Featured Posts

I've seen that same type of deck 'addition' done many times.  Not a good way to go.  I'd hate to be the person responsible for refinishing that deck too.

5:26am • #19
466,270 Points 50 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Decks should be left to contractors and not DIY weekenders. Penny-wise and pound foolish. Imagine if that deck was built off a second story. 

5:29am • #20
730,389 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Charles, I guess the bigger question is whether it will stand another ten years. I wonder if they got permits and inspections or if they just continued to add on?

6:02am • #21
652,304 Points 70 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

So much for enjoying the back yard!  We have a deck and we love it, but it's a fraction of the size of this one, and we have a huge back yard.  

7:00am • #23
916,964 Points 178 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Tom, possible----but given the amount of peeling paint maybe not

Jay, a few toenails would be nice---but mine were the only ones on site

Cindy, swaying is not good:)

Debbie, tons of defects---probably more than any other single component of a home

Reuben, I hear you there---a big project coming

Pamela---well then it would at least be easier to fix :)

Michael, not likely there were any permits involved.

Kristin, we have all been weekend warriors now and then---there are good ones and bad ones.  Even professionals work on the weekends :)

7:04am • #24
916,964 Points 178 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Christiansen Team, I am not totally against decks---just unsafe ones:)

7:05am • #25
839,181 Points 69 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Clear the decks for action...is all I could think of...The thinking was sound...but the application is questionable

7:06am • #26
493,908 Points 75 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Buell - I love decks but you are correct in that they can be maintenance nightmares.  

10:00am • #27
275,890 Points 17 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

It seems that the one thing that handy dan should NOT consider doing is a deck. He never gets it right!

10:11am • #28
445,293 Points 70 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Charles, I just saw a piece on the news this morning about unsafe decks and how so many of them are not secured properly to the house and how the wood is split or cracking. They made the point that a good majority of decks out there are unsafe.

Debbie

10:15am • #29
452,806 Points 81 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Charles - I'd guess that most homeowners think themselves qualified to build or expand a deck--after all, it's just a matter of nailing up a few pieces of wood. But as you often see, many most of the decks constructed by amateurs are lacking, sometimes dangerously so.

11:04am • #30
916,964 Points 178 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Richie, I am hoping these decks stay clear until repairs are made

Sardi, I can picture you on your deck :)

Kathryn, even the "pros" have a hard time with deck installations

Debbie, it seems decks make the news all too often.  There are a LOT of aging decks out there now.  It is not just building them that is the problem---sooner or later they need to be replaced as well.

John, over and over again I am afraid

11:29am • #31
227,617 Points Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Charles -- I saw the same story on NBC this morning that Debbie (#29) referred to.  They specifically mentioned the need for screws and bolts, as well as hangers, and that nails could just pull away.  They even had a demonstration deck that collapsed.

12:42pm • #32
AUG
19
177,946 Points 2 Featured Posts

Not that contractors always get it right either, but I agree that sometimes a weekend project should be left to a weekday specialist....I always cringe a little when a homeowner proudly says "yep, I did all that myself"

7:10am • #33

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Charles Buell, Seattle Home Inspector

Charles Buell, Seattle Home Inspector

Seattle, WA

More about me…

Charles Buell Inspections.com

Address: Seattle, Shoreline, Everett, Lynnwood, Bothel, Kirkland, Bellevue, Mercer Island, Edmonds, Renton, King County, 17123 22nd Ave NE, Shoreline (Seattle), WA, 98155

Office Phone: (206) 478-7371

Cell Phone: (206) 478-7371

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My blog is intended to provide information related to home inspections in Seattle, surrounding communities and anyone else interested. Sometimes I will provide information that has nothing to do with home inspections. Enjoy!

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