Normally, I have no problem sharing my thoughts about affiliated business, yet for some reason found it difficult to do in an Active Rain post.  I have, in fact, relentlessly denounced affiliated business in the same manner as a preacher condemning sinful acts from the pulpit.

The concept of affiliated business in real estate transactions was born of the Reagan Bush brain-trust during the late 1980's.  The federal mood and agenda at the time was one that encouraged bigness of business.  It was thought that "deep pockets" paired with technology could create an environment that reduced costs and enhanced services for consumers who were purchasing or refinancing a home.

It all appears to be simple and reasonable enough.  An affiliated business arrangement exists when a real estate brokerage and a title company share the ownership of a title company.   By partnering in this way, real estate companies and agents are entitled to share in the profits of a captive operation. 

Keep in mind, there are any number of possible variations to the theme including joint ventures with mortgage brokers.  I'm trying to keep this post as straightforward as possible by dealing with only the title industry's perspective.

To be legal, and RESPA compliant, a lengthy laundry list of requirements must be strictly adhered to
.   The agent has to contribute capital to the venture in an amount equal to the agent's proportionate ownership interest.  Any monies dispersed have to take the form of a legitimate distribution of profits.   Also, the new company can't share space, staffing, or management with an existing title company.  It has to be a free-standing business that supports itself by offering core title services.  Establishing a legitimate affiliated business is an expensive and risky proposition that requires a great deal of planning, capital, and the involvement of an attorney familiar with RESPA implications.

It's patently illegal for a real estate agent to receive benefits, on a per deal basis, for doing nothing more than placing an order in an in-house pipeline.  By benefits, I'm referring to checks, sometimes called "hard dollars," or "soft dollar" inducements that offset desk or advertising fees.

The experiment that is affiliated business has been successful only in limited parts of the country where ownership records are available in the form of highly automated title plants.  Keep in mind: success is measured only in terms of benefits to consumers, not real estate professionals.  For the most part, the project has proven a dismal failure due to the very nature of abstracting and examining titles.  It's a process that's more closely akin to a professional practice, not a manufacturing operation that experiences economies of scale through increased volume. 

In many instances, consumers are horribly overcharged and subjected to inferior service because the title company in a directed business situation has no incentive to be anything other than mediocre and has to share profitability.  Restrained competition, never a good thing, inevitably results in complacency and exploitation.  It also has a tendency to attract those who aren't the best or the brightest.  Affiliated business doesn't have to produce stellar results or be the least expensive alternative, it just has to be good enough to pass for a close facsimile of the real thing.

Surely everyone acknowledges the benefits of competition:
  • Do we not encourage our children to engage in healthy competition to learn the value of superior performance? 
  • Can you imaging sending your children to school with the expectation of being average academically, socially, or athletically?
 Of most concern to real estate agents should be the contradiction between affiliated business and fiduciary obligation.  Is it possible to remain completely impartial when referring service providers while the promise of additional income rests in one particular provider?

I highly recommend a blog hosted by Minnesota attorney Doug Miller.  Ethical Practices in Real Estate offers practical advise that can't be found elsewhere.

In a recent post, Doug issued a relevant and timely warning:
  • Has your manager given you advice on how to address “objections” if your clients want to select their own title company?
  • When it's time to negotiate your commission split, does your manager or broker first look at how many files you’ve sent to the in-house title company?
  • Do you find that there is an unusual absence of marketing materials or presentations from outside title firms? 
Doug suggests that you "find another broker to hold your license" and a "class action attorney" if you "answered yes to any of the questions."

I happen to fully agree with Doug.  As attractive as affiliated business might appear at first blush, the business model offers numerous perils for real estate agents from a legal perspective and as a practical matter.
 
 

64 Comments on Affiliated Business: The Nemesis of Reason

JAN
21
2008
160,969 Points Outside Blog

Great information and a great post. We all could learn something from this and use it.

Dwayne West

Solid source Realty

2:26pm • #1
250,305 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Ed, you come up with the best subjects. Just this year agents in Colorado have to go onto the DORA site and check a box that we do or don't have affilates that we work with. This is an important point : Of most concern to real estate agents should be the contradiction between affiliated business and fiduciary obligation. I don't have anyone I'm directly affliated with. But we all know agents whose husband, kid or cousin is a handy-person, landscaper etc...  Now that has to be addressed. The fiduciary partners are of the most concern yet our instructor told us that if we ever "think" we should declare a relationship do it.
2:48pm • #2
155,460 Points Outside Blog

Great Post, super information  I am glad that I subscribe to your blog

Dave Woodson

Indigo Financial Group

2:59pm • #3

The company I work for has several business affiliates and I can answer your timely and relevent warnings:

1.  My clients are allowed to choose their own Settlement Company.  Title Company?  I'm a little confused.  The Settlement Company chooses the Title Company and the prices are the same no matter which Title Company is used.  I give a list of 5 in my area that are all very good.  Some are better at certain types of deals than others and I will point that out. 

2.  Only my production totals are addressed when re-negotiating my commission split.  In the Policy and Procedures Manual it spells out how I can get a raise and how I can be "demoted."  No where does it mention my referrals to our affiliated businesses being a factor. 

3.  My office displays any and all materials of reputable firms and services in our area.  They are in two places in the office. 

I do not get personally compensated for referring someone to our in-house mortgage company or in-house settlement company.  I do get a nominal amount of money if I sell 2 popular home warranties, but everyone in our area gets the same deal.   

I definitely think that the business arrangements of some companies are suspect. I am very lucky that the businesses my company is affiliated with are reputable and carry a high level of service, if they didn't the owners of my company would dissolve them. 

And yes, I can imagine sending my kids to school with the expectation of being average socially, academically, or athletically.  VA gives out these cute awards to the schools for AYP - Adequate Yearly Progress.  It's a little hard to believe, I know; and it's quite funny to see a big sign bragging about AYP.   

3:11pm • #4
109,021 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed, I just wanted you to now that I have read this post since I've been asking for it. I'll be back to comment furthur later. I want to digest what you said and come up with my counter-points.

Bill Roberts

3:14pm • #5
100,090 Points 20 Featured Posts
Ed... feel so fortunate to work with a Broker who does not believe in using any affliated service.. he owns a real estate company... period.  I don't care how it's packaged.. it still smells of conflict of interest.. That's my thought and I'm sticking to it..
3:19pm • #6
266,552 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Ed - I hope this perpetuates a healthy dialogue and discussion among the community.  I shall return:-)
3:25pm • #7

Ed:  Excellent post.  I recently found a section of law in PA that speaks directly to licensed real estate brokers and agents and their obligation in disclosing affiliations.  Here it is:

Selected Provisions of Pennsylvania's Real Estate Licensing and Registration Act

See Section 455.606a. Duties of licensee generally [emphasis added]

13) to provide disclosure to the consumer regarding any financial interest, including, but not limited to, a referral fee or commission, which a licensee has in any services to be provided to the consumer by any other person, including, but not limited to, financial services, title transfer and preparation services, insurance, construction, repair or inspection services. The licensee shall also provide disclosure regarding any financial interest which an affiliated licensee may have in any services to be provided to the consumer by any other person. The disclosures required by this paragraph shall be made at the time the licensee first recommends that the consumer purchase a service in which the licensee or an affiliated licensee has a financial interest or when the licensee first learns that the consumer will be purchasing a service in which the licensee or an affiliated licensee has a financial interest.

Whether we look at federal laws and regulations such as RESPA or state laws, the scofflaw culture in the real estate business today is so deep and so corrupt that these laws on the books seem meaningless.

I have hope, though, and perhaps through education and a new positive peer pressure we can clean up our collective real estate industry and renew trust with the public.

3:28pm • #8
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Ed, I know that "one stop" shops are the current trend. They actually make sense from a business perspective BUT they are in my opinion not good at all for the consumer. I just don't like them at all. Even though it's always"well they can use whoever they want" I know in reality the incentives to keep things in house is too great. Remember that little post I wrote about KB Homes and Countrywide? It's a perfect example of the consumer getting screwed.
3:32pm • #9
42 Featured Posts

Dwayne - Thank you!

Hi Dena - Your thoughts are always appreciated and valued. 

Dave - You're way too kind, but thank you. 

Sarah - Thanks for sharing your perspective.  I have to disagree that title company prices are uniform in the state of Virginia.  They are not, even title insurance premiums are negotiable and vary wildly.  I'm glad that you're comfortable with your in-house service providers.  Please understand that my views and experiences are contrary to yours.  Virginia, overall, isn't a state that lends itself to efficient affiliated arrangements as far as title companies are concerned.  I know for a fact that title agents there are strongly opposed to the concept and for good reason.

Bill - I'll wait here.

3:37pm • #10
42 Featured Posts

Kaye - Amen to your comment.  What's wrong with real estate brokers generating income through the listing and sale of properties.

Jason -  I'm with you.  A healthy debate would be a good thing.

Diane - Thanks for the back up.   I always appreciate it.

Bryant - Only a year ago, I was convinced that underwriters were frowning on controlled business due to the losses caused by class action litigation.  Now, I suspect that underwriters will try to deter the practice among their agents while employing it themselves.  The byproduct of affiliated business is bigness which doesn't bode well for smaller real estate brokerages, title companies, and mortgage brokers.  I accept that niches will always exist, but I fear that bigness is making it unreasonably difficult for small players to compete.

4:17pm • #11
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Excellent Ed, thanks to all your advice here over the last year, I don't use our companies partnership. My title company give NOTHING to us, but good, quality service.
4:32pm • #12

Do we really think AfBAs started because Reagan/Bush pushed bigness of business and marriage to technology as the way to save money?  I've said this before - it takes people with experience in a business to start a new business in the same field and have an expectation of success.  Otherwise you would have your milkman becoming your mortgage lender (opps... maybe you did!) or your dentist being your realtor.  Let's face it, if you investigate the history of most title businesses you find people who were already in the real estate business in some fashion.  They evolved into full time title people or kept other business ventures while building their title companies.  This applies to underwriters and agents alike.  (Mein gott!  Please dont think I am defending the Reagan administrations policies here!)

Now, do I think the current spate of Realtor/title JVs are open to potential problems?  Yes that's a possibility.  But no more than I think the current economic downturn will cause the word "defalcation" to become nearly household.  And I defy anyone to show me statistics that show the majority of these losses coming from AfBAs.

I am glad, Ed, you made the distinction regarding the availability of title information.  In the west, title plants and clerks offices have made it possible to begin new title ventures.  Most, if not all western states have one fee for premium that covers all the activities you in the east have segmented; search, abstract, underwriting.  Consumers are not subject to myriads of fees that allow companies to hide mark-ups.  In the end, no matter your structure, you must compete on service and competence.  If you fail here, your entire business organizations are tainted and no one would risk a 6% real estate commission for some post-expense portion of a small one time premium on a transaction.

Tim Killcoyne
4:57pm • #13
188,594 Points Outside Blog
I've bookmarked this post and will keep it for future reference. Thanks for the information...
4:59pm • #14
Great post.  When we tried to buy a house from a local builder we ran as fast as we could when we found out we had to use their settlement attorney, their title company, their mortgage company and spend more more more!!
5:05pm • #15
42 Featured Posts

Missy - Thank you, it's been my pleasure and I'm a better person for having had the experience.

Tim - During the early 1990's, I attended a seminar in D.C. where a HUD official explained the origin and the philosophy of affiliated business.   The concept was clearly born of the big business mentality of the 1980's while the implications of automation were being explored.  There was an unmistakable change in the mood at HUD at the time regarding "bundled services."  I doubt seriously that the framers of RESPA could have imagined the developments that we've witnessed.

You and Andy were in large part responsible for my change in heart regarding the regional appropriateness of the AfBA.  As long as the model is employed by responsible players and consumers aren't being compromised, it works in states like Colorado.  Affiliated business, as it relates to title companies, doesn't work in Maryland, or Minnesota, or Michigan, or most of the country for that matter.  Most title professionals don't have access to the instant, reliable information that you have or the title work is being shipped offshore which opens another can of worms entirely.

As you know, I detest "reverse competition" as much as I do affiliated business.  I believe that title companies need to connect with consumers if they hope to survive.

I'm glad you've commented and added to the narrative, but I'd love for you to post sometime soon.  Talk to you soon. 

5:16pm • #16
42 Featured Posts

Robert - I appreciate your confidence.

Patti - Thank you for sharing such a wonderful example.  Builders are notorious for exploiting consumers with AfBAs. 

5:18pm • #17
426,349 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

ED,

I've got your back covered and I'm still digesting comments...so far, Kaye, Diane, Bryant, Missy, & Patti sum it up for me...CBA's are 'buying business' and 'eliminating competition' models...if that is good for the consumer then count me in!!! LOL Thanks,   Fran

6:02pm • #18
183,138 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I couldn't agree with you more! I am equally uncomfortable with some of the Lender affiliations. It just seems like pushing the envelope when there are so many out there just looking for an excuse to shut our "business as we know it" down...I can guarantee "they're watching"
6:07pm • #19
42 Featured Posts

Fran

Glad you liked the post.  It was a lot of territory to cover at one time and there was no way to be completely balanced.  In most states, I feel that affiliated business exploits the consumer and apparently others feel the same way.  In all states, there's the unfortunate possibility that abuse will evade corporate culture.  Competition is always a good thing in free markets.   Always! 

6:10pm • #20
490,365 Points 41 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
I don't have shares in the title company, I don't reommend the "recommended" lender and who knows what else I don't do when it comes to affiliated relatioships.  It doesn't seem like good practice and it isn't worth the headache of worrying about whether I did the right disclosures or not.  There are enough complications in real estate without adding to it with all of these stuff.
6:13pm • #21
109,021 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed, In California where I am the DRE allows us (real estate brokers) to act as mortgage brokers and to do our own escrows (closings). We need to give a form to the buyer/borrower advising them of our affiliated business relationships. I have never had any problems with clients in regards to these ABAs.

Recently I wrote a post about changes coming to our industry: Everything Old Is New Again  I think that the One Stop Shopping model will prevail. The clients want and embrace it.

My questions to you are more of a "how can I go about it?" rather than "is it good or not?" nature.

So what I am asking you to do is separate "closing services" from title insurance in your mind. I can already do closing services. Now I would like to be able to provide title insurance. So what is your recommendation?

Bill Roberts

6:18pm • #22
42 Featured Posts

Joan

It really should be addressed in a separate post, but I have very strong views on the topic.  Affiliated business opens the door to bigness in the industry unlike anything seen before.  I'm very uncomfortable with the fact that three title insurers essentially control the flow of ownership information in this nation. 

I believe that real estate agents need to promote fair competition by using only local service providers that exemplify superior performance.   Small to mid-sized title agents are currently on the endangered species list.  I'll be audacious enough to suggest that small, local real estate brokers and mortgage brokers are next.  With bigness comes heightened regulation.  The small players in the real estate industry are being "papered" to extinction by state requirements at this time and it's only going to get worse.

6:21pm • #23
42 Featured Posts

Bill - There's no question that "bundled services" are here to say.   A friend of mine might be able to help you.  I'll send him an email and get back to you when I hear something.  

Cindy - You and I are on exactly the same page.  I can't understand why real estate brokers and agents want the additional burdens of dealing with affiliated business.  It's tough enough to manage one business effectively.

 

6:36pm • #24
426,349 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed,

Some realty agents wonder why there are so many FSBO's...why not...if realty agents can wear several hats, then why can't homeowners sell their own homes!!! Thanks,   Fran

7:02pm • #25
844,724 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Affiliated business practices are only one of the scourges of our business.  A worse one is dual agency, the ultimate oxymoron. 

You should see the many ways our MLS is designed and administered to steer buyers to listing agents.  Of course, the agents figure that's a good thing. 

Oh well, it's over.  Batgirl lost that one. 

We fight on.

Many agents who believe that the affiliated title companies are O.K. because they don't receive any direct money from the practice don't know that they brokers receive bonuses and other benefits based on in-house business.

7:08pm • #26
42 Featured Posts

Fran  - I've never thought of it that way, but it sounds like a strong argument.

Lenn - I'm glad we agree on the disadvantages of affiliated business.  The issue of dual agency should have been resolved decades ago.  It makes absolutely no sense and only diminishes the integrity and reputation of your profession.

7:22pm • #27
5 Featured Posts
I agree with the dual agency remark.  I think affiliated businesses may make money for the outfits that are using them, but the lack of competition results, in general, in inferior products and services.  There are always some quality people in the affiliated businesses, but usually it's just a "feed me" kind of relationship.  We use external vendors, and the clients appreciate the results.
7:44pm • #28
42 Featured Posts

Margaret

Very well said.  Thank you. 

7:50pm • #29
351,295 Points Outside Blog
Good post. We use affiliates based on the fact they do a good job for our clients, not because of any relationship anyone has with the broker. All we ask of affiliates is to do a good job for our clients.
9:45pm • #30
3 Featured Posts

Now I like Ronald Reagan, the actor, but politics aside I feel that a one stop office actually creates a better experience with the customer.  I have been funding loans for over 16 years and managing a real estate office for four and I have discovered that when agents do both sales and loans that that it makes them better professionals, much more  valuable to the client.  How many times have we seen real estate agents that don't have a clue about the financing or loan officers that don't care about the sales transactions.  As long as there is full disclosure I feel that the new agent must be familiar and offer all kind of services not limited to loans,  but including property management, and even commercial leasing expertise.  What we need is a Renaissance agent capable and educated to better serve the client.  Some sarcastic people say that this is not possible, I disagree because Im operating this way successfully now in a down market.

Respectfully, ktm

11:24pm • #31
JAN
22
2008
42 Featured Posts

Bob & Carolin - There's no question in my mind that your business runs like a well oiled machine.  Thanks for commenting.

Kirk - I agree, real estate agents who expose themselves to the mechanics of related industries are better for it. As you suggest in your comment, the "one stop shop" is here to stay.  I'm concerned that the concept initiates a necessity for corporate bigness that's going to make it difficult, maybe impossible, for small, local businesses to compete.  Thanks for commenting.

5:35am • #32
844,724 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

My comment about the affiliated business houses and dual agency have little to do with what is best or more efficient for the businesses, the agents, the brokers, the lender, etc. 

It's is the consumer who loses.  There is no way, absolutely no way, that an agent or broker can represent two sides of a transaction in the best interests of both sides.  One side will lose and that is usually the buyers side with the exception of a represented buyer buying a FSBO and in that case, the seller usually loses. However, that's a self inflicted wound. 

Getting there was easy with the NAR and most state legislators in the pockets of the megas with the affiliated entities and dual agency shops.  Money talks. 

However, the argument is over and I have accepted that agents, brokers and companies have won and the consumer lost.  The consumer didn't have a vote because they are myopic, uneducated about the system and see only the emotional small picture of dual agency and affiliated relationships.  All the consumer wants is to sell a house or buy a home.  Smart talking agents have their way with them and the consumer doesn't even know what's happening. 

Of course affiliated business relationships and dual agency work for business.  It increases the profits. 

7:30am • #33
426,349 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

ED,

Lenn's statement, "Getting there was easy with the NAR and most state legislators in the pockets of the megas with the affiliated entities and dual agency shops.  Money talks. " is characterized so plainly and understandably when one considers the membership list of RESPRO!

Gold Sponsors
October Research Marketing     Old Republic    
Silver Sponsors
Fidelity     North American Title Group     Shelter Mortgage     Stewart Title Guaranty Company     String Real Estate Information Services     Title Alliance    
Friends of RESPRO
Simplifile     SoftPro Corp.     Windward Consulting | Software

 

Thanks,   Fran

7:53am • #34
3 Featured Posts

Ed - I was wondering when you were going to do a blog on this subject. Thank-you for your insight.

We happen to be one of those "small companies" you refer to. Our office has a handful of Realtors/brokers we deal with. The rest of our business comes from the actual consumer. As I stated before with Kickbacks, which are also known in these neck of the woods as Affiliated Business Arrangements, it's nearly impossible to compete. When targeting the "consumer", it's fairly easy until they speak to their broker and/or agent and are immediately advised to use their company. The consumer is told from the beginning, if they use their affiliated company, the process will be smoother and completed in a more timely manner. We've even had some that say our company is small, they've never heard of us or they heard we weren't a good title company. We actually filed some complaints with the Principal Broker. The consumer is completely blind-sighted to the fact these people are getting money from these title companies for steering them in that direction. In the end, they win and we loose.

One of our mortgage brokers was looking for a Hard Equity Lender a couple months back because he wasn't having any luck with the one he was using. I had seen one on MySpace that I interacted with on occasion, so I told the broker about him. At the same, I contacted this Lender to let him know and gave him all the information for the broker. Long story short, this Lender, immediately told my broker he couldn't use us because they have their own title company. Thank GOD the broker stood up for us and told him he would never do business with him. I sent this guy an e-mail, letting him know my thoughts of him. I referred him someone but yet he wouldn't let them use me.

We had another Lender, that when the customer told them they wanted to use us, they were told, there would be a charge on the HUD for the amount of $2,000, payable to the lenders title company, since they already started working on the file. Obviously he didn't use us but did send us flowers and thanked us for the work we did on the file.  

Sorry for the long comment. As you can probably tell by now, AfBA and Kickbacks are things that really get under my skin.

 

8:04am • #35
595,267 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I understand your points, and agree that it is an easy situation to abuse.  That said, my brokerage has an in-house mortgage arm... I've never sent a deal there, yet I've been agent of the month more than any other active agent.  So, it can be done ethically, I would presume. 

Off topic:

Surely everyone acknowledges the benefits of competition:

 

    • Do we not encourage our children to engage in healthy competition to learn the value of superior performance? 
    • Can you imaging sending your children to school with the expectation of being average academically, socially, or athletically?
Just because I can't help myself...  In many places, the answer to the first question is NO.  Kids aren't allowed to keep score because the losers self-esteem  may be hurt.  In the case of the second, there are a lot of districts that restrain the brighter students instead of letting them learn... because it may damage the self-esteem of the "less bright" student.  So, while I appreciate the point, it is no longer being made in society.   
9:08am • #36

"We had another Lender, that when the customer told them they wanted to use us, they were told, there would be a charge on the HUD for the amount of $2,000, payable to the lenders title company, since they already started working on the file. Obviously he didn't use us but did send us flowers and thanked us for the work we did on the file."

Dawn:  You'd be doing our collective industry a service if you would report the offending lender and their affiliated ABA to both HUD and your state insurance regulator.

Flowers rather than payment for services rendered is less than adequate.  Wonder what they send the boys they have used and abused.  

Diane Cipa
9:48am • #37
42 Featured Posts

Lane - Thanks for the update about competition in schools.  A similar comment was made yesterday.  I had no idea that things had changed so much from my own educational experiences.  My son is a senior in high school and for different reasons has never had a highly developed competitive drive.  I'm going to modify that particular aspect of my presentation based on your thoughts.

Dawn - I'm really glad that your contributing in this forum.  You have much to offer.

Fran - I see the whole thing moving towards "bigness" with only a few monstrous players in the game.

Lenn - It's so important to stay focused on the consumer and only the consumer.   It's a message that's lost on many, but should go without saying.  I knew what you meant in your comment.

9:55am • #38
109,021 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed, There seems to be a bias here (you and commenters) toward small mom-and-pop operations as if this will automatically guarantee better service to the consumer. I just don't get it. I "know" that I can get a better deal from the big box stores than from the mom-and-pops. I "know" I'll pay more for less if I choose to go to a small store. There are efficiencies of scale that translate into better service at lower cost.

These one-horse operations feel threatened. That's good. They should be threatened in the name of giving more to the consumer.

Bill Roberts

11:06am • #39
3 Featured Posts
Ed, I've read all the comments and find everyone's viewpoints quite interesting. I've worked on both sides of the Affiliated Business fence. Both sides have good arguments and if competition isn't stifled they can both be good for the consumer. The type of arrangement I don't like is the one that isn't out in the open, and those arrangements have been going on way before HUD brought these arrangements in to the lime light. I prefer to call them kickbacks. This is one area of the title industry, at least in California, that most real estate agents don't understand. I'm not sure which came first The agent asking for a kickback or the title company offering one. ;o) Thanks for allowing us to learn from one another.
12:25pm • #40
121,298 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I loved the little questionaire at the end. I would hope that no one answered yes to any of those. I certainly wouldn't stay in a company if that was going on.
1:08pm • #41
42 Featured Posts

Christy -  Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Greg - I have to agree that the dialog is becoming more productive than I ever hoped.  Not long ago, I was vehemently opposed to AfBAs based solely on the anti-competitiveness of the concept.  A couple of Title-opoly readers from Colorado convinced me that a legally structured AfBA is possibly a better option than reverse competition where illegal kickbacks are often a part of doing business.  I've evolved to the point where I see direct contact with consumers as the best chance of survival for many small to mid-sized title companies.  Keep in mind that the title industry in a couple of states, including California, has a business style that's distinctly different than the rest of the country.  Many of the things that I say and suggest are probably inappropriate for your market. 

At the very least, I would like for all title companies to maintain an on-line presence while employing some of the marketing techniques used by real estate agents.  Title agents could use localized blogging as a way to stay connected with past customers.  At this time, most title companies live in fear of losing a single source of business because it will close their doors.  Consumer directed marketing offers viable options and a vast array of possibilities.   Everyone tells me that it can't be done; that it's not possible for title companies to survive and flourish by marketing consumers.  I'm not sure that it is possible, but I believe with my whole heart that it's an experiment worth trying.

1:51pm • #42
42 Featured Posts

Bill

I'm guilty as charged.  Speaking in terms of the title industry, economies of scale haven't translated into savings for consumers.  I fear that bigness in the real estate industry might result in mindless corporate bureaucracies not unlike the insensitive monsters that exist in the world of managed healthcare.

I do advocate locally owned and managed real estate companies in spite of the cost disadvantage that might accrue to buyers and sellers.  It seems to me that the industry lends itself to personalized niches more than bigness.  I'd really like to know more of your thoughts on the matter.  

2:12pm • #43
109,021 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed, I've written more than a 100 posts here on AR and there is a recurring theme in them. I would like to see "higher standards" for real estate agents and loan officers. I also "see" the future of our industry being more efficient because of technology and the Internet. This presents a unique opportunity to down-size the industry. We can do without a lot of the players. Hopefully the ones that survive will also be the best.

A firm that specializes in real estate related financial services could employ the best people and deliver a complete menu of services efficiently and inexpensively. The public wants this. It is only those already comfortable in their practices that don't want it.

Too many agents and LOs see technology as a means for them to make more money for doing less. This is appalling. Everybody "knows" that technology makes things less expensive. It also makes things easier.

So in the simplest terms you can do more for the same money or do the same for less money. I propose to do more for less money.

Bill Roberts

2:34pm • #44

Ed:

Yours and Lane Bailey's comments re: competition reminded me of just how much AfBAs have had the effect of producing a mediocre product, much like the "Handicapper General" in the short story Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut.

Great post.  Keep fighting the good fight!

Regards,

Scott Perry

 

2:35pm • #45
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Hmmm...loaded blog post.  I'm one of "those Realtors" who offers 2 services to my clients.  I feel disclosure is key.  I have a RE and mortgage license and the capability to wear two hats.  However, I still think the buyer has a choice! 

Example: If I receive a call from a buyer, my first question is have you spoken to a lender yet?  I don't want them to waste their time or mine if they cannot afford the home they are calling about.  Since I do have a partnership with a mortgage company, I have the opportunity to build a relationship by offering to collect some basic information from them and help them start shopping for a mortgage.  I don't price the loan, I don't provide the GFE or approvals, I just initiate the process and a loan coordinator with my company take over, just like my buddies used to do.  I'm involved at that point only to initiate ...that is why I do not see it as a conflict.

If they shop around, which I always encourage...they can and sometimes do find a strong deal.  No biggie, I just had the chance to participate if it was the best fit.  I'm finding that buyers really like the fact that I can "help" them before I jump in the car and sell them something.  I think it is very professional but it is all in disclosure and education.

It's working here but we are also a very Internet savvy spot...I don't think other areas in the USA are ready for this yet.

3:19pm • #46
42 Featured Posts

Erica - Interesting!  I have to agree that your business model is progressive and it sounds like you believe strongly in disclosure.  I do as well.  Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Scott - I tend to think that mediocrity is a by-product of controlled business in any form.  Affiliated business reminds me too much of bureaucracy where the end user is basically forced to accept services such as they are. 

What incentive does a captive title operation have to improve?  None that I can think of. 

Competition, free markets, and the profit-motive are the variables that compel us to stellar performance.  Thanks for commenting.

3:55pm • #47
42 Featured Posts

Bill - It's difficult to argue against your talking points as I agree in substantive ways, yet disagree in equally substantive ways.  Unquestionably, I would like to see heightened licensing standards and consumer savings created by proprietary technology.  However, I don't see how these concepts are the exclusive domain of big business.  I find them comfortably compatable in the context of small, localized businesses. 

This debate is provocative to say the least.

4:10pm • #48
109,021 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed, There is nothing inherently "big business" about the concept except to say the major players would probably be better at creating an identity which the public would trust. They will also have the correct mindset to employ people on salary whereas the small, local firm will find it difficukt to get away from their commission only model. Another problem in the current real estate milieu is the "cult of me" type of branding that has been going on for the past thirty years. It will take a major player to supplant this attitude. The little guy won't be able to.

Bill Roberts

5:09pm • #49

After having read all the prior posts, the one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is the point that affiliated business have an inherant conflict of interest when it comes to title.  If a "cloud on title" appears that may be a bit difficult to resolve and remove, the AfBA, with or without the consent of their underwirter, can merely "insure over" that defect.  Like the old Breck shampoo commercial - and so on and so on - this will completely pollute the public records and create a scenario that the public records will be completely unreliable to anyone purchasing any type of real estate as to whether it is "good" title or not.  Why oh why are the underwriters willing to dessimate the system of land records that have existed since before the US was a nation? 

 

Anita JW Backlund
5:36pm • #50
42 Featured Posts

Anita - Your words are music to my ears.  I'm not sure that all readers fully understand the concept of indemnification as it relates to the title industry and more particularly the long term implications.  It's something that deserves definition and clarification in a separate post.  I like your use of the word "pollute" as underwriters are clearly destroying the integrity of land records in what appears to be a miraculous transformation of title insurance into a casualty product.  The consumer will ultimately suffer as will smaller title companies.  Thanks for your comment.  I have a feeling that your an abstractor.  

Bill - I follow your line of reasoning.  I'm going to explore the issue by way of a separate post or two.  We've covered a lot of territory today when you think about it.

5:49pm • #51
109,021 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed, I'll be waiting for your new posts. In the mean time you have inspired me to write a new post on fiduciary duty: What Do We Owe Our Clients?

Bill Roberts

7:03pm • #52
Ed - Thanks for the encouragement!  Yes, I am currently an abstractor (licensed, as a matter of fact, in MN - one of the few licenses here that require testing - but thta's anothr story).  However, I started out in this profession in 1977 as a "baby" paralegal working in a law firm, having been taught by a wonderful attorney who graduated Yale Law School in 1940.  At the time in NY (relocated to MN 10 years ago), attorneys were still abstracting and providing attorneys opinions rather than title insurance on purchases (there were hardly any refinances back then).  I have also been a title agent the last 10 years I was in NY, where controlled business is (or was) nonexistent.  It made the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I saw how rampant (an corrupt) is was in MN, thus I decided that abstracting was the only way to actually make a difference here.  I have worked very hard to maintain my reputation in this industry.  However, it is extremely difficult when the majority of the industry is absolutely clueless as to what is truly invovled in title abstracting nor do they care.  The majority ony seem to care about cheap and fast.  Always reminds me of a an old saying - Cheap no good - Good no cheap.  It absolutely sickens me to see what has become of this profession and the public records. 
Anita JW Backlund
9:10pm • #53
JAN
23
2008
110,262 Points

Ed - I just changed brokers because of the pressure to use affiiated businesses. I have a loan officer I'm thrilled with and a closer at a title company that I like, but was always "encouraged" to use one of the preferred vendors.

It always just seemed to have a stink to me.  Congratulations on your feature!

2:50am • #54
42 Featured Posts

Bill - I'll be around.

Anita - My experiences were very similar to yours.  I too learned abstracting from an older attorney who had "old school" standards.  About a year ago, I closed my abstracting company, primarily Baltimore City, due to sheer frustration.  It was the only viable option since the company was losing money.  Competition had driven price levels to unrealistically low levels and requested turn around times were impossible.  Needless to say, offshoring has decimated abstracting as it was once known in Maryland.

It's going to be horrific when the claims eventually start to hit.  I'm convinced that we're going to see a storm of class action litigation that will change the entire real estate industry forever.  It sounds crazy to many, but the process starts with the "lowly" abstractor.  A properly conducted abstract sets the stage for a successful closing and litigation free homeownership.  The elimination of abstracting standards will create a domino effect with a broad real and lasting consequences.  

5:43am • #55
42 Featured Posts
Linda - Thank you for sharing you perspective.  I hope that others find the courage that you've demonstrated to walk from brokers who have no right to eliminate competition and free trade.  In theory, affiliated business sounds great, in practice it's been a real bane to the industry.  The consumer has the ultimate say in the matter.
5:50am • #56

Ed and Anita
Just had this thought about off-shoring and abstracts.  The only place abstracts might still be used here in the West is mineral searches.  The last abstract I touched in title insurance was probably 1979 or 80, but I was still using abstacts when I left oil & gas in 86.  The landmen and O&G attornies I know working today still use them.  Given the enormous complexity (and huge dollars at stake) of mineral searches, I am hard pressed to see offshoring of these searches.
Now I know this post is about afiliated businesses, but part of the issue is the underwriters and large agencies moving critical pieces offshore - and I can't help but wonder how this other piece of industry will be or is being affected today.  Thoughts anyone?

Tim Killcoyne
9:42am • #57

Tim - IMHO, the slippery slope started when title underwriters bagan their push to rely on prior insured titles, rather than passing abstracts between parties at a sale transaction.  This started in downstate NY in the early 1980s.  It is my understanding that abstracts are still being updated and passed in upstate NY, at least that was the norm when I moved to MN 10 years ago.  However, this may have changed since then.  In MN it is just starting.  I have seen about 10-25% of purchases still utilizing updated abstracts.  However, there is that other oddity in MN called Torrens (a whole other disucssion).  The Fund in FL and Old Republic Title in MN were the first to require use of their own title plants.  With all the mergers between the underwriters, the choice has become very slim.  I believe they merely looked at this idea of a title plant and requiring the agents to utilize them looked like a cash cow.  Many title agents valued their agencies based upon the value of their title plant.  The underwriters just took this to another level by outsourcing their plants to Bangalore.  When the underwriters started competing with their own agents, it was bad, but now it is much worse with this outsourcing situation. 

Unfortunately, with sooo many untrained and inexperienced hands touching the public records and title plants, God help us all as to what it will be in just a few years, not to mention, as Ed did, the amount of claims that are soon to hit. 

Anita JW Backlund
10:54am • #58
FEB
12
2008

Has anyone read "Who Moved My Cheese?"?.  The world is changing rapidly and so is the title insurance and settlement services market.  Unfortunately, it is the customer/consumer who cedes their choice of service provider to others.  I have been in the industry since 1972 and no matter how I have attempted to convince potential customers it is their perogative to choose, they continue to abdicate their choices to others.  So as independent agents, we need a way to overcome the lack of competition created by the real estate broker in-house title companies where the benefits of ownership are only shared with the broker and title partner.  This is where I think we can beat them at their own game by creating an AfBA with real estate agents only.  Until congress decides the experiment of the affiliated business model is a failure and takes action to eliminate it, we have to find ways to continue to survive.

Donn the Titleman
4:09pm • #59
NOV
07
2008
489,726 Points 84 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I will not hang my license with any company who has those practices.  I like what I do, I like my license and I guard my reputation.

7:47am • #60
NOV
08
2008

Ed,

I agree that many consumers are hurt by the ABA conflicts. In our market until recently the in-house title service was poor and the prices were high.

In the last two years some of our local brokers have greatly improved the quality of service from their in-house title companies, but they often still charge above market fees for closing and recording processing. We were recently able to negotiate a $275 reduction in these fees for our buyer, but I have to believe that few if any of the buyers that work with that brokerage ever receive a reduction to market prices for those fees.

 

The more dramatic conflict of interest though is what Lenn has already pointed out. Dual agency.

One of the larger offices in our area pays their "designated buyer agents" about 25% more if they sell an in-house listing. That is a shamefule conflict of interest and one that absolutely should be disclosed to the consumer. I doubt if that is ever disclosed.

I wonder if AR members in larger Ann Arbor offices would like to comment???

 

Also, I say "designated buyer agents" because that is what they are. They are not buyer agents. But that is a topic for a different post!

 

11:43am • #61
NOV
12
2008
167,563 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Mom said not to say anything at all, so I'll just say, good post!

1:07am • #62
NOV
26
2008

Great post with some really great information...thank you for posting!

8:33am • #63
MAY
14

Blog is really informative and motivated me a lot!!

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