Update on UFirst agents

Karl;

With regards to your response to Tom...Yes you are absolutely correct, if the homeowner is disciplined he will save a great deal of money with the MMA.  There is no misrepresentation or argument that it takes discipline for this product to work - as most most investment strategies do.  Whether someone has the discipline to follow through is not our responsibility.  I would agree that we are in a collapsing market, but the reality is that has nothing to do with anything.  Some qualify, some wont - it all depends on the equity in their home.  You are also correct that some secondary lenders are reducing their limits, LTV's etc. on second mortgage helocs.  However; they are still available if you have the right LTV, credit, etc. which is all part of the qualifying process.  Just like all lending practices out there right now, some can qualify, some cant.  That really has nothing to do with the performance of this product.

I would also like to see you, OR anyone out there try and do what this software can do with a simple excel spreadsheet.  So let's imagine you have both a first mortgage and a home equity line in place, you start running all your cash flow through the home equity line. When do you send the first large payment to your first mortgage and how much do you send? How long do you wait to send the next large payment and how much is that one? Have you been as efficient as the Money Merge software? Now lets ad some real life variables in the mix. You have sent your first large payment towards your first mortgage and your transmission on your car goes out. You are running all your cash flow through your home equity line so you make another large payment to the transmission shop. How does this affect your overall picture and now how long should you wait to send the next large payment to your first mortgage with this new variable? Now you have an unexpected doctor bill etc, etc, etc. So yes you can do this on your own, but how much time and effort is needed? Have you been as effective as the software? The interest on the home equity line is normally higher than your first mortgage, so it is important from and efficiency stand point to move your funds at the optimal time and in the optimal amount. Let me see you try and put something together on an excel spreadsheet that can do the same thing.

With regards to your response to the proof, A case study was done in CO over three years ago on a bata test on this product.  500 parties were followed after purchasing this product.  As of today, 93% of them are 15% better off than the software projected!  Not better off than they were before, but better off than what the software said they would be.  If you would like documentation of this I'd be happy to share this with you. I also  personally know of hundreds of individuals who are having success on the product and will have homes paid off in 10, 12, 15 years saving them hundreds of thousand of dollars.  Again, i can assure you the numbers are far greater than the one or two people on the video. 

Finally, in response to why would someone spend $3500.00 on this software.   Let me put this into lamens terms for you,,,,Which would you rather spend, $3500.00 or an estimated $200,000+ dollars in interest.  The $3500 is not out of pocket, and is usally made up in the first month when the first money transfer takes place.

In closing, I leave you with this...."The man that understands interest will earn it, and the man that does not will pay it".....Albert Einstein

Cheers Karl.  Koolaide drinkers - as Bill would say are those that dont have their facts straight!

Travis

Saratoga Springs, Utah

Travis,

It is simple to put that into a spreadsheet.  I put MMA's own example into a spreadsheet.  $200,000 first mortgage @ 6% conventional 30 years.  I then added the additional $3500 debt for the access to the software...and just as their example states...10.4 years...amazing...add the $1000 each month to the mortgage payment and 10.4 year payout just as they advertise...No magic there...just standard math.  Put $3500 on the mortgage, add the $1000 per month on your own and poof...done in under 10 years!!!

The marketing is very misleading on this product.  I may not be Albert Einstien, but when someone wants my money for financial advice...OOPS wait...look at the disclaimers... cant offer financial, investment, or mortgage advice...hmmm...let me take financial advice from a software salesman on commision???

Jeff;

Excellent point, EXCEPT one thing...I dont know to many people that have that extra $1,000 per month do you?  If you do, can you explain why very almost everyone I know still blindly writes their minimum mortgage payment month in and month out?  The MMA allows the "average" person to accomplish what most cant, all with the banks money not their own.

 Here's an example for you...

here is an example of how well it does...

$200,000 mortgage - 30 years
6% interest on primary
Heloc at 10% interest
$3800 total monthly income
Payoff in 21 years
Save $79,973.41 in interest
Effective interest rate for primary AND heloc... 4.191%

This is with $0 in discretionary income. Yes... ZERO.

This is with the homeowner spending every dime they make... Every month... on something else.

That's where the power of ths program comes into play.  The truth lies in using the system without using any discretionary income!!!

I took a 64 year old man today who litereally owes the same amount he did 8 years ago when he first purchased his home.  (Due to refinance) He said to me he knows he will never be able to pay his home off before he dies.  He only makes $3000 per month and only has very little discretionary income.  He currently has 28 years left on his mortgage.  With the MMA he will pay his home off in 5 years!  He will save $80,000 in interest (loan amount was only 104,000) without changing his lifestyle.  Oh, and I failed to mention I gave this man another $750 per month in discretionary he didnt have before as well.

This man, for the first time ever now sees the light at the end of the tunnel.  That he will have the opportunity to pay his home off.  This is attriubuted to the MMA software program.  He would have otherwise NEVER done this - and because of the education and direction of our program - he will have financial freedom.  We're arent just paying off his home, but rather his car, credit cards and his trailer.

Once again, he doesnt have $1000 per month to throw at his mortgage, nor do most people.  If they do, why arent they doing it?  I'll tell you why, there is no structure or direction to do so. The MMA provides that for the person who needs it. 

1/2 of Australian homeowners are on similar programs. 1/3 of British homeowners are as well.  It;s a proven fact that in these countries on average they pay significantly less than we do here in the states. Why, becaue they have a program to follow and the structure is there.

In the U.S., these programs have already saved thousands of homeowners millions of dollars of mortgage interest and have also facilitated better money management skills.

How you can say that's a bad thing is a wonder to me. 

Next?

Travis

Travis,

I am sold with your examples.  I can be reached at quickv6@fuse.net.  Be prepared to send amortization tables to back up your numbers because your examples conflict with an MMA website answer....I think maybe I need to quote PT Barnum rather than Einstien...

Gentleman (Karl and Jeff)

I stand corrected on the example I posted.  That's what I get for posting on these things late at night: after a long day)  The scenario which I quoted DOES include a $500.00 discrtionary income. My apologies for the miscommunication Karl. 

However, what it did not include was the $681.00 we are saving him by paying off his Truck and credit cards.  The actual payoff is 6 years in comparison to 28 years.  If he were to take the extra income we are saving him that would project a 4 year payoff.

Karl, respectfully in response to your link provided, I can provide you with links of similar groups that support and enfdorce the product just the same.  The information I was referencing came from http://www.bankrate.com/.  You can find an article that does support my claims above at http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/mortgages/20061102_equity_accelerator_mortgage_a1.asp.

I stand firm in my beleifs that the software is a valuable "tool" (Not magic Jeff, yes you are correct) and is well worth the investment.  This software allows homeowners to better understand the consequences of unnecessary purchases. It also prompts the customer when exactly to transfer funds to avoid unnecessary interest.  I suppose the argument "I can do this on my own does have merrit for the scholar". The problem is the average Americans - even with disposable income arent doing so.  I beleive it's because they do not have structure, accountability, or they dont understand the ramifications of spontaneous purchases.  I beleive the software provdes these things for many. 

In my experiences in this industry, what I have found is people get addicted to the payoff figure, and start to rationalize purchases they wouldnt otherwise.  That ends up being a positive awareness and THAT is what the program does for you. 

I will refer to the study that was done almost three years ago to date.  400 individuals purchased this program, 2 years later they followed up with every customer and found 98% of them were still on the product, and furthermore; they were 15% further along than the software predicted they would be.  You cant argue with those statistics!  These are people who I am sure would not be following a program otherwise.

In closing, I wiill remind you that people pay professionals every day for convenience and or educational tools.  Shoot, I just payed a CPA very well to do my taxes because I knew this was his expertise, I would likely save myself more money (even by paying him) rather than doing the taxes on my own.  What about my financial advisor?  I pay him well to also guide me with my finances when I could certainly do that on my own as well.  I could go on and on.  My point... there is value in a "tool" that can keep you on track and provide financial awareness for the average every day person.  The fact is, maybe with a serious effort, you could do it on your own (I would still argue it wouldnt be as effficient as the software) but it could be done.  However; in 9 out of 10 cases - t's not!  With the software case study as documented proof - it is!

 That's what the MMA is all about. 

 Travis

Michael;

What you have heard is the truth, there is no out of pocket costs for the MMA software program! The cost for the program is paid out of the HELOC - which is the banks money not yours.  In otherwords, the bank is lending the client the money for the MMA.  This payment should not result in any change to someone's lifestyle in any way.  I am very surprised you would have a problem with this concept?  As a mortgage broker, arent you doing the the same thing when you roll the cost of a refinance into a morgtgage?  Brokers do this every day, even when as cash out isnt paying down debt and it's not the best for the client.   The difference is with the MMA, (unlike the refi) the client does not incur additional long term debt, but instead becomes debt free in as litle as 1/2 to 1/2 the time.

In response to your question, "why would you need the software?" This has been addressed in previous posts several times so I will refer you to previous posts written above for a more in debth explanation. In short, The MMA is designed to allow the customer to pay the max amount to principal and the min. amount to interest. There is much more involved than merely taking a persons discretionary income and applying to the first mortgage each month.  Bottom line, those in the industry like yourself may be able to have similar results without the program, but for the average every day person out there - it's not possible.  Millions of Americans across the country have the ability to pay down their mortgage, BUT THE FACT IS -THEY AREN'T. The MMA is tool that allows you to follow a program.  Studies have shown with this program people are much better off because they know have a financial dashboard to see when their home will be paid off.  People get addicted to that number and start to use common sense when making purchases. It helps the customer develope better spending habits allowing the customer to make better decisions with capital expenditures and planning for a better future. One last point, unlike just paying money to your mortgage - the heloc program is a two way street giving you access to your money/equity in case of an emergency.  When your extra money at your home you dont have access to those funds.

Finally in respone to what seemed to be your biggest concern, "the proram is based on a heloc that is an adjustable rate."  The rate is actually not much of a factor at all with this program. The reason is you do not pay interest on most of the money you use for monthly expenses and additioinal principal payments.  By depositing your income into the Heloc on a monthly basis, you are offsetting the higher interest rate you would pay by using a heloc in the traditional manner. I have had customers with similar concern, and ran their analysis with a rate on the second of 18% and it only added months on to the payoff.  I am certain when somone is paying their home off 10,12 or 15 years faster, sometimes saving hundreds of thousands of dollars - those few months that are added on IF prime were to continue to climb isn't that big of a deal.

Let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns about this product.  Anyone that wants more info on this product, wants a free analysis on their home or is interested in becoming an agent, we do host a luncheon on Fridays in Lehi if you would like more information.  You can also email me direct at tafmortgage@rapidwave.net as well.  Hope you don't mind the plug Karl:)

Cheers.

Travis

Travis,

I do not hold a masters in finance.  However, the amount of wordsmitting used to market this product just pegs my BS meter.  I support free trade, but I also remember how hard my dad had to work to make a dollar.  Just my opinion...the sales pitch is too misleading for me to consider profiting from such a product.

I consider wordsmithing to be stating true facts in such a way that they are inteded to not be understood.  Some would call it marketing genius...examples...AKA=also known as...

FACT - "there is no out of pocket costs for the MMA software program"  AKA fact - your cost of this program will be 100% additional debt  ... oops how do we spin this???

FACT - "The cost for the program is paid out of the HELOC - which is the banks money not yours."  AKA fact - well it starts out as the bank's money, but don't forget...you will have to pay it back.

FACT - "the client does not incur additional long term debt" AKA fact - well, I have a masters in finance and a home equity line of credit is meant to be paid quickly and is thus SHORT term debt, so technically you did not incur additional LONG term debt...you incurred short term debt.

I could go on, but you get the idea.  And I'm still kind of OK with this stuff as buyer beware until we conclude the program as a tool to...

"It helps the customer develope better spending habits allowing the customer to make better decisions with capital expenditures and planning for a better future." 

... so to kick off your toast to better future planning I'm gonna have you incur $3500 of kick off debt.

There is money to be made here...but it is by the seller's not the users.

Wow,

 Awesome points of view from everyone trying to sway this topic off the fence with passion and vigor. I see both sides of the coins here with supporting statements on both sides. 

I believe as mortgage planners or advisor's if thats what you are calling yourself these days, we have a fiduciary responsibility to completely and honestly disclose how products work, without the BS. If you have ethics in this business you will have no problems telling clients exactly what they are getting into. I also believe that we must practice due diligence in what programs are offered to our clients by looking at both the pro's and the con's of each tool that is available since not all benefit each of our clients specific needs. It is our job to educate and present all possible options that may benefit the client without judgement on our behalf or making the decision for the client just because we may have an issue with a product or program, whatever that may be.

That being said we must also remember that it is our job to "advise" & not make the final choice for our clients. If we present all the facts and calculations with our findings but our client doesn't choose to take our advice then that is their choice to make. I've seen and had new clients come to my firm that were turned away for not following what an adviser said or recommended to them. I believe that is the core meaning of being a trusted adviser to our clients. Preparing them with honest and truthful advise, "the good the bad and the ugly" and let them decide for themselves and their families what will do best. As long as we have done our fiduciary responsibility and put our knowledge forward without holding anything back I believe we have done our job responsibly and the client can do theirs knowing all the facts.

 I believe this post could go on for eternity on who's right and who's wrong, but if we put our clients intentions first along with our expertise to advise them the best way we can, we will do our jobs in providing sound advice, full disclosure and presenting the best options that the client will be able to succeed with. And the bottom line is to serve our client as their lifelong advisor.

Alex M. Ramirez

There is a better way.

UFirst requires constant management of many moving parts.  Its no secret that $3500 is a boatload to pay for any software.  Where does that money go?  Can you get the same product much cheaper or free? The cost goes to feed a downline, and you can get similar software and spreadsheets for less than $100.

The fact remains, once you pay down your first mortgage, you can't get that money back out unless you refinance, or get a HELOC.  Meanwhile, the majority of your funds sit in the bank earning you nothing.  What happens to all that prepaid interest if you lose your job?  Will they give you credit for it until you get back on your feet? The answer is no.

What if you can put all of your money to work saving you interest the minute you get it?  What if you didn't have to change your spending habits, or take an hour each day to log into the computer and shuffle money around?  What if you had immediate access to your money, but while you weren't using it, it sat against the balance of your loan?  The answer is the Home Ownership Accelerator.

The HOA is the most powerful financial tool available to the homeowner today.  It blows away the MMA on many levels.  It solves the problems that the MMA creates.  It fills in the gaps. 
The UFirst product works! It just doesn't work as well. 

The Home Ownership Accelerator is a set-it and forget-it tool.  Borrowers behave exactly like they normally would.  CMG embedded a sweep account inside a line of credit.  The servicing partner GMAC bank powers the full functioning checking account.  You can check out the 4min movie at www.thehoamovie.com

A lower balance means less interest, less interest leaves more for principal, more principal equals faster payoff.  As the borrowers needs change, the loan can change with them.  Today they may want to pay off,  they may want to use their equity to invest, and then they may want to retire and use their loan as an alternative to a reverse mortgage. 

Amortized loans dump all the interest upfront, and the banks borrow your money for free.  Its insanity!  There is a better way.

-Xavier www.thinkHOA.com

Hi,

I have been approached by an agent selling the concepts of Ufirst Financial and they the agents are the people that are getting brainwashed! First of all HELOCS existed long before their MLM scheme. They try to claim credit for a way to speedily pay off a mortgage but it is the HELOC that does all the enabling, (not necessarily a Ufirst product). Ufirst then tries to sell the $3500 "software" however they really don't give you software. You may access a computation on the internet for $3500.00 and none of the computation can be experimented with to try different things because you don't "have" the software. Most of these agents are very new to the concept of the HELOC and what it enables so they spend a great deal relying on the video everyone can see that excludes many things I am attempting to include. I have seen them sell to people unable to realize any financial gain for two years until they pay down some of their extravagant buys to eventually put them in position to actually use the benefits of the HELOC! So their real interest is selling their multi-level-marketing scheme to enrich themselves whether or not a victim benefits. They think that the math done by the complicated algorithyms is some kind of space age scientific math that no home owner can comprehend (including themselves) because it is so magical. I have news for them. Algorythms can be set up to tell each of us each day of the week and each month of the year and birthdays and holidays if you set them up to do that. Would you pay $3500.00 for a computer Calendar because it keeps track of your birthday? If you go to any bank selling HELOC services, if they are worth their name, they will provide you with the ways the interests are compounded on your HELOC just as they would for any other type of account you might endeavor to set up with a bank or lending institution. Perhaps if you are undisciplined, need a crutch to walk forth to help your self, don't want to investigagte all methods to help yourself such as investigating purchasing elsewhere, you could benefit by doing business with   Ufirst  Financial. Further I would advise people to stay away from MLM's as they are getting known for their markers some of which are a feeling of superiority over non-participants whom they presume cannot understand or have closed minds (part of their brainwash they are programmed to have), attending brainwashing seminars to promote themselves, pursuing their business interests abondoning family interests and friends. and a  high rate of family and marriage break-ups that result when everyone doesn't buy in to the plan. For many this is justification for their externalization of marriage practices to their new "home" group. Hitler proved that if you tell a big enough lie there will be beleivers. MLM's are barely legal pyramid schemes where the people first in are most likely to benefit and benefit the most and people getting in later are less likely to succeed due to market saturation. The exagerated claims of millionaires is not able to be verified in fact..........you can make numbers say anything. People likely to succeed are individuals that are at a top of employment structure that repeatedly make their underlings go to their MLM meetings and are able to use peer pressures and employment pressures to get people growing in number down below them. Sometimes church leaders have also done so in the same way. These things I have seen for myself. They are able to shut down better business bureau complaints because in reality if you join you are doing it to yourself. I say don't do it!

Why is every one that is FOR the product selling the product?  I don't see any users (the ones that have no finacial gain for doing so) getting on to offer any experience with the product. That is what bothers me about this product. I sounds like a great idea. But they say the gain is from supercompex algorithms. Stuff we lamen folk apperently don't need to understand. I demand to understand what the algorithms do and why. I don't believe in MAGIC.

Why are those that think it is the idea of balance reallocation and extra priciple payents that give the savings and not the PROGRAM that does the savings called names by those selling the program? Do those selling the program do it because they believe the program is the best thing for the client, or for their own pocketbook?

I am also a computer programmer of MANY years. Something does MILLIONS of calculations and Vic10G understands it? That is a pretty BIG statement. Did he invent the software? Did he program the software? Why doesn't he say? What is with the anonymity. If you say you know something that is outrageous, then at least back it up so we don't completely discredit you because we can't beleive the basis of who you claim to be. Even if the programmer does understand the code, that could only be because he is heavily involved with the company. And the last link on his post would seem to confirm this conclusion. So where is the non biased yeah-sayers for the company in question?? Generally when those that have a finacial motivation to come the the defence of a product are the only ones defending it, that means that the product is not delivering over all satisfactory results.

Every time someone gives you some GREAT numbers that show that what they are selling really works, you had better double check them. And when you enevitably find that the calculations really are TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, why do they get off the hook by simply stating that they forgot to tell you something about one of the numbers? What else are they "FORGETTING" to tell you?

I don't know if the program really works the way they claim, but the marketing and sales makes the product feel slimy and dirty and obfuscated in big numbers and large promises. Simple truth cannot be so complicated, and complicated this subject is.

oh boy... Karl, I appreciate your sentiment and your desire to defend the program. It shows you have conviction and determination. I myself believe in the program and its merit. I equate financial management to weight loss. How do you get thin? Eat right and exercise. How many people do it? That's right, very few. In that same line of thinking, most people need some accountability when it comes to actually paying off debt. Some have advisors, others use software. The UFirst program works mathematically, but it also provides an infrastructure, much like a Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers does for our friends who desire to be more healthy, for people to consistently and systematically pay off their debt. But I digress.

Karl, if you are going to smart mouth people, please spell the word 'algorithm' correctly. Also, please don't start out your rebuttal by using the word 'your' incorrectly. Credibility is everything. Lastly, to anyone who is taking the time to read this comment, please don't let over zealous individuals sway your opinion on a software product and banking process that is helping people pay off their debt very quickly right now. Arguments like this can get silly because its like saying that by using a program such as Weight Watchers you are somehow stupid for doing so or not as smart as someone who has a personal trainer. Well, enough talking. Friends, whatever it takes, pay off your debt and build wealth the old fashion way. With money. Your money.