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74 Comments on Let’s play inspector---safe or unsafe?
Christine---that seems to be the majority opinion
Nan, see an update to this information at the end of these comments.
Kat, and ironically some wood slats might not be as strong
Marilyn, nope---safety glass
Dave, the in-fill area of the guard only has to resist 50 lbs---each piece has a safety glass etching.
Clint, as I said to Dave---the in-fill area only has to resist 50 lbs.
Kathy, these would be no problem in heavy wind---they are actually quite strong.
Sharon, I am still waiting to check with a glass company to see what they have to say.
Travis, they might be easier to clean than those solid glass panels so popular on decks.
Joetta, the jury is still out on these but.....
Barbara, this was a first for me as well
Jon, safety glass breaks into harmless little pieces
Don, all the edges were "eased" and not sure how that affects their strength when hit on the edge.
Bob, yup
Micheal, I am still trying to get to the bottom of this issue
Lyn, this is the first time I have seen these in my area---you say you have seen this slat approach in your area before?
Evelyn, I think there is a psychological element that must be overcome here.
John, I am not sure of the permits and jurisdictional inspections.
Marte, that was my initial reaction too---however they may be perfectly safe.
Kim, a 50 lb husky running full tilt at this glass barrier might end up on the ground below.
Dana, I wish I could with confidence state that these slats are safe.\
Rafi, I am still waiting to hear from the glass company.
A side note to all: Code requires that the "in-fill" area of the guard be able to resist 50 lbs of pressure against it---unlike the top rail that must resist 200 lbs of force against it. I am pretty sure that these glass slats would resist 50 lbs---but time will tell.
Jim, I am inclined to agree---but it still may meet code.
I'm with you, I'd be concerned about those panels breaking, but they are approved... here's the product
http://www.railsimple.com/product_listings.asp?pkid=1&wtid=28&view=list
Oh, and by the way... check out this link for guardrail requirements https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=1309.0301 .
Scoll down to "Guardrails in-fill components" in Table R301.5, then look across at the Live Load: 50 lbs, with a footnoot.
Now scroll down to footnote "i"
i. Glazing used in handrail assemblies and guards shall be designed with a safety factor of 4. The safety factor shall be applied to each of the concentrated loads applied to the top of the rail, and to the load on the in-fill components. These loads shall be determined independent of one another, and loads are assumed not to occur with any other live load.
In other words, 200 lbs is needed for glass, and this system apparently passes muster - check out their ICC report here http://www.railsimple.com/pdf/testrep/USA/Clearview/Clearview%20%20Guard%20Rail%20Final%20Report%20USA.pdf
Reuben, thanks. Great input---glad to see these things are designed and manufactured for this purpose. However I did notice that the company you posted about only makes 6" wide pickets and all of the testing appears related to those. So still a big question mark about my 4" wide ones. :)
Here is another one I found with 4" wide pickets.
http://www.yourrailing.com/products/Glass-Pickets-%252d-5-pack-only.html
Those are neat. I've seen glass before in areas where people want to take advantage of the view when sitting down. I have even seen slising glass door glass turned on its side and used. It is very strong but it still is glass and something sharp hits it and it breaks. But often times the wood ones people use are put on with a finish nail and wouldn't stop anyone from falling over. Sometimes the materials give us a false sence of security.
Good call, I didn't catch that difference in size.
Reuben that report was a great find. Who knew glass could be that strong.
I dont believe code specifies a material, does it? Love the look of glass! but not if it is not safe, what about plexi glass?
Having been a glazing installer in the past I would go with safe, but as an inspector I would be adding a caution.
The caution would be to treat it like a swimming pool, i.e. no unsupervised children, no running, sliding or jumpimg, and no accillerating toys(wheeled)(no trolly carts,etc.).
I haven't yet looked at the specs that Reuben provided, but as a glazer I would like to see a thickness of greater than 5/16ths. And it has to be tempered glass. The tops and bottons need to be in slots in the rails but shimmed in the center with no pressure contact on any corner.
You can slam properly tempered glass all day and not do any damage, but a light tap on a corner will make it explode. That's why the installation details at the carners is critical.
If it was mine, I'd have the bullet proofing/blast film put on it so it will stay in place even after it has been shattered. It's not cheap but it is magnitudes safer.
Definitely a "balcony cabin on cruise ship" insiration. One guess is that if the owners could afford the installation and design, then they are not going to be the ones doing the actual cleaning ;).
Unless I misunderstand "safety" glass, does in not simply mean that it is stronger due to lamination and safer because WHEN it breaks, it does not shatter into shards. Having said that, would you trust a 4" wide shelf of this material and put, say a 40 pound object in the center of it? On this deck, it is only secured at the far edges.
I bet if we had the same material in the "shelf" application above, we would move the supports well toward the center.
I guess you could literally consider this material cutting edge design.
I agree that it depends on the safety of the glass itself. Safety glass might possibly make it "safe" in case of an accident.
Rob, and that is really the point of my post---what seems safe may not be safe and what does not seem safe may actually be safer.
Reuben, sometimes you can run yourself ragged with the details in this business :)
Jim, it is certainly counter to my intuition
MaryBeth, Plexi might work too but it scratches too easy for my taste.
Robert, I may have to buy a few of these to "experiment" with :)
Bill, both are true. It is both stronger and the way it breaks is safer.
Theresa, yes---it turns out that these slats of glass are actually very strong.
Charles - Good one. I would have to say, it depends! If my clients had no smal children or pets, I'd say there wasn't an issue, but if they do, I wouldn't be so sure. Best bet is to point it out on the report without questioning the safety of it, and advise the buyer to see the advice of a profesional glass installer.
Not only does it not appear safe, my kids would leave fingerprints all over them.
Interesting. I too, would give this a pass, but would not recommend it for homes with young children or enthusiastic pets.
Brad, I think I have come to the realization that most of my fears about these glass slats are more psychological than real
Gene, kids leave finger prints? :)
Chris, I still want to know just how much it would take to actually break one.
This does not bother me. My kids wpould have never been left unsupervised on an above ground deck.
Wayne, as it turns out these glass panels are actually "approved." See comments 58, 59 & 60.